Can anyone tell me?

Vel

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Oct 30, 2008
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The healthcare bill that they're trying to push through reconcilliation is the senate bill. In order to use recon, they first have to pass the Senate bill in the House. The Senate bill contains billions of dollars in new spending. By law, all spending must ORIGINATE in the house. How are they proceeding on this bill that originated in the Senate?
 
How? - by Shredding The Constitution via procedural sleight of hand.

They hope that the Stupid Masses will forget all about it when they start waving shining things in front of us after it passes. Once the bureaucracy is established, it will be nearly impossible for future Congresses to undo it.
 
Last I heard an hour or so ago, Pelosi is going to try a "deem and pass" strategy. She'll deem that everyone has voted for passage (even though nobody did) and they she'll hustle the thing over to Obama for signature.

It would be an unconstitutional thing to do .... but who the hell cares about the Constitution these days?
 
House Republicans plan to introduce a resolution that would require a "straight" vote in the House on the Senate-approved health care plan, to ensure everyone goes on the record as for or against the bill.

But Pelosi and Rep. Louise Slaughter, D-N.Y., chairwoman of the House Rules Committee, are cooking up a plan to pass the original health bill from the Senate side without forcing rank-and-file Democrats to technically go on record in support of it.

Democratic leaders are considering the option because many House Democrats don't want to cast a vote in favor of the Senate bill, which they oppose for numerous reasons. Problem is, the House must pass the Senate bill in order to move on to the package of changes intended to correct all the things about the Senate bill that House members don't like.

Enter the Pelosi tactic, known as a "self-executing rule."

Under this tactic, the House could simultaneously approve the Senate version of the bill while voting on the package of changes. This would "deem" the Senate bill passed, though not directly show members voting in favor of passage.

It may sound murky, but the option is winning favor among Democrats.


"It is one of the ways that's being discussed," House Democratic Whip James Clyburn, D-S.C., told Fox News, rebutting criticism.

"There's been a vote in the Senate. They got 60 votes for this," Clyburn said Tuesday. "This is nothing unusual. There's no trickery here at all."

The maneuver is not rare, though it's not typically used for something so sweeping and high-profile. The House most recently used the tactic to raise the debt limit while simultaneously passing a measure requiring the chamber to pay for the measures it approves.

Pelosi reportedly told liberal bloggers Monday that "nobody wants to vote for the Senate bill," and so she's strongly considering the non-vote vote.

"I like it, because people don't have to vote on the Senate bill," she said.

FOXNews.com - Republicans Battle Pelosi Over Plan to Pass Health Bill Without Traditional Vote


This way the House Dems think they will 'save face' :rolleyes: come November. They will pull out all the stops and use everything they can to shove this pile of shit through . . . . regardless that the majority of Americans do not want this behemoth they've tricked out as 'reform'.
 
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How? - by Shredding The Constitution via procedural sleight of hand.

They hope that the Stupid Masses will forget all about it when they start waving shining things in front of us after it passes. Once the bureaucracy is established, it will be nearly impossible for future Congresses to undo it.

Looks like the Dems finally learned something of use from the Reps....
 
So then vayank... you were against any use of this tactic then and are for it now? Or were you against it then and will stand against it now even with the DEMs deploying the tactic?
 
How? - by Shredding The Constitution via procedural sleight of hand.

They hope that the Stupid Masses will forget all about it when they start waving shining things in front of us after it passes. Once the bureaucracy is established, it will be nearly impossible for future Congresses to undo it.

Looks like the Dems finally learned something of use from the Reps....

So the 'Mommy, he did it too' is okay with you? How very partisan.
 
It's all just a big sham unfortunately. The People don't want this massive indecipherable Democrat Boondoggle. Now the Dems are resorting to dirty tricks to force it on the People. I think the People are smarter than they think though. Make 2010 count.
 
The healthcare bill that they're trying to push through reconcilliation is the senate bill. In order to use recon, they first have to pass the Senate bill in the House. The Senate bill contains billions of dollars in new spending. By law, all spending must ORIGINATE in the house. How are they proceeding on this bill that originated in the Senate?

So the Nineteen (19) times Reconcilliation was used by the Repugs is all kinds of fine, well, right and good.

Nice double standard.
 
The healthcare bill that they're trying to push through reconcilliation is the senate bill. In order to use recon, they first have to pass the Senate bill in the House. The Senate bill contains billions of dollars in new spending. By law, all spending must ORIGINATE in the house. How are they proceeding on this bill that originated in the Senate?

So the Nineteen (19) times Reconcilliation was used by the Repugs is all kinds of fine, well, right and good.

Nice double standard.

Two wrongs now make a right? Blah..blah..blah. You missed the point comepletely. This bill ORIGINATED in the SENATE. It is loaded with NEW spending. How are they getting around the constitutional requirement that ALL spending bills originate in the house. I'm not sure that Slaughter even does that.
 
The healthcare bill that they're trying to push through reconcilliation is the senate bill. In order to use recon, they first have to pass the Senate bill in the House. The Senate bill contains billions of dollars in new spending. By law, all spending must ORIGINATE in the house. How are they proceeding on this bill that originated in the Senate?

So the Nineteen (19) times Reconcilliation was used by the Repugs is all kinds of fine, well, right and good.

Nice double standard.

Not a double standard at all. As you well know.

Reconcilliation is a process used for budget matters and has specific rules that need to be followed. When Republicans use it to pass budget matters and follow the rules 19 times, there isnt an issue.

When Democrats try to use it to pass legislation and avoid all the rules of the reconcilliation process. We have a problem.

So either you are ignorant of what reconcilliation is, in which case, you now know and should stop pretending it's something it's not. Or you are actively deceiving people to justify your parties illegal behavior. Either way, the educated people of the nation wont stand for it unless they are just as corrupt. And we arent.
 
The healthcare bill that they're trying to push through reconcilliation is the senate bill. In order to use recon, they first have to pass the Senate bill in the House. The Senate bill contains billions of dollars in new spending. By law, all spending must ORIGINATE in the house. How are they proceeding on this bill that originated in the Senate?

So the Nineteen (19) times Reconcilliation was used by the Repugs is all kinds of fine, well, right and good.

Nice double standard.

Not a double standard at all. As you well know.

Reconcilliation is a process used for budget matters and has specific rules that need to be followed. When Republicans use it to pass budget matters and follow the rules 19 times, there isnt an issue.

When Democrats try to use it to pass legislation and avoid all the rules of the reconcilliation process. We have a problem.

So either you are ignorant of what reconcilliation is, in which case, you now know and should stop pretending it's something it's not. Or you are actively deceiving people to justify your parties illegal behavior. Either way, the educated people of the nation wont stand for it unless they are just as corrupt. And we arent.

the medicare pill bill was an appropriation bill? I think not avatar.... they used reconcilliation to pass it....so that blows your rhetoric!
 
i think it is a ruse to say they are doing it in this manner to protecthouse dems up for reelection who hate parts of the senate bill....

i think, if my research has served me, it is because by doing it in this manner, the senate can not amend what the house votes on as the reconciled changes out of conference....

the whole, i got members who do not accept having to vote for the senate bill stuff is really.......

the house wants to make certain the conference amendments for the merged bill sticks, and the senate does not get last word....at least, this is what it appears like?
 
They've been planning all this crap out for a good long while now:

In late December, while Americans were arguing that no one had read the bill, Leiberman was posturing to vote against the bill with a public option, and the debate on abortion continued, Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) took an existing HOUSE-passed bill, H.R.3950–the Service Members Home Ownership Tax Act of 2009–and here’s how it unfolded:

10/8/2009:
Received in the Senate. Read the first time. Placed on Senate Legislative Calendar under Read the First Time.
10/13/2009: Read the second time. Placed on Senate Legislative Calendar under General Orders. Calendar No. 175.
11/19/2009: Motion to proceed to consideration of measure made in Senate. (consideration: CR S11578)
11/19/2009: Cloture motion on the motion to proceed to the bill presented in Senate. (consideration: CR S11578; text: CR S11578)
11/20/2009: Motion to proceed to consideration of measure considered in Senate. (consideration: CR S11826-11879, S11888-11903)
11/21/2009: Motion to proceed to consideration of measure considered in Senate. (consideration: CR S11907-11967)
11/21/2009: Cloture on the motion to proceed to the bill invoked in Senate by Yea-Nay Vote. 60 - 39. Record Vote Number: 353. (consideration: CR S11967; text: CR S11967)
11/21/2009: Motion to proceed to consideration of measure agreed to in Senate by Unanimous Consent.
11/21/2009: Measure laid before Senate by motion. (consideration: CR S11967)
11/21/2009: S.AMDT.2786 Amendment SA 2786 proposed by Senator Reid. (consideration: CR S11967)
In the nature of a substitute. emphasis mine

The GOP must have known what was about to happen next because they were united in voting “Nay” against this bill on November 21, 2009. Additionally, the Senate Amendment offered by Reid was none other than the Senate version of the healthcare bill.

Reid HAD to do this. Why? Because all legislation that raises taxes MUST originate in the House of Representatives and H.R. 3590 satisfies that requirement.

I will repeat that, Harry Reid switched the language in H.R. 3590 and replaced it with the Senate’s version of the health care system takeover in order to satisfy the requirement for all legislation raising taxes to originate in the House.

(more...)

The House Vote on the Senate Healthcare Bill Is the Final Vote; Obama Will Sign It Into Law | RedState

Every minute of this deliberation has been dishonest. It's all about fooling people. Deceit. Subterfuge.
 
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So the Nineteen (19) times Reconcilliation was used by the Repugs is all kinds of fine, well, right and good.

Nice double standard.

Not a double standard at all. As you well know.

Reconcilliation is a process used for budget matters and has specific rules that need to be followed. When Republicans use it to pass budget matters and follow the rules 19 times, there isnt an issue.

When Democrats try to use it to pass legislation and avoid all the rules of the reconcilliation process. We have a problem.

So either you are ignorant of what reconcilliation is, in which case, you now know and should stop pretending it's something it's not. Or you are actively deceiving people to justify your parties illegal behavior. Either way, the educated people of the nation wont stand for it unless they are just as corrupt. And we arent.

the medicare pill bill was an appropriation bill? I think not avatar.... they used reconcilliation to pass it....so that blows your rhetoric!

can you link to some details so that I will know exactly what you're referring to?
 
i think it is a ruse to say they are doing it in this manner to protecthouse dems up for reelection who hate parts of the senate bill....

i think, if my research has served me, it is because by doing it in this manner, the senate can not amend what the house votes on as the reconciled changes out of conference....

the whole, i got members who do not accept having to vote for the senate bill stuff is really.......

the house wants to make certain the conference amendments for the merged bill sticks, and the senate does not get last word....at least, this is what it appears like?

That's not the narrative being promoted by the Pro-Reform press:

It's a circuitous strategy born of necessity. Pelosi doesn't have votes for the Senate bill without the reconciliation package. But the Senate parliamentarian said that the Senate bill must be signed into law before the reconciliation package can be signed into law. That removed Pelosi's favored option of passing the reconciliation fixes before passing the Senate bill. So now the House will vote on reconciliation explicitly and the Senate bill implicitly, which is politically easier, even though the effect is not any different than if Congress were to pass the Senate bill first and pass the reconciliation fixes after. This is all about plausible deniability for House members who don't want to vote for the Senate bill, although I doubt many voters will find the denials plausible.


Ezra Klein - Nancy Pelosi's strategy for passing health-care reform
 
i think it is a ruse to say they are doing it in this manner to protecthouse dems up for reelection who hate parts of the senate bill....

i think, if my research has served me, it is because by doing it in this manner, the senate can not amend what the house votes on as the reconciled changes out of conference....

the whole, i got members who do not accept having to vote for the senate bill stuff is really.......

the house wants to make certain the conference amendments for the merged bill sticks, and the senate does not get last word....at least, this is what it appears like?

That's not the narrative being promoted by the Pro-Reform press:

It's a circuitous strategy born of necessity. Pelosi doesn't have votes for the Senate bill without the reconciliation package. But the Senate parliamentarian said that the Senate bill must be signed into law before the reconciliation package can be signed into law. That removed Pelosi's favored option of passing the reconciliation fixes before passing the Senate bill. So now the House will vote on reconciliation explicitly and the Senate bill implicitly, which is politically easier, even though the effect is not any different than if Congress were to pass the Senate bill first and pass the reconciliation fixes after. This is all about plausible deniability for House members who don't want to vote for the Senate bill, although I doubt many voters will find the denials plausible.


Ezra Klein - Nancy Pelosi's strategy for passing health-care reform

but what does reconciliation really MEAN to the house?

the house NEVER had a super majority needed to vote for the bill out of conference....our house of representatives has never needed more than a 50% plus one vote to pass any and all legislation?

ONLY the Senate has rules and procedures such as the filibuster that requires them to vote with a super majority?

so, why would it hurt to vote for the Senate bill, pass it with 50 votes and then immediately pass the conference amendments to the bill to reconcile the differences?

I believe it is because, if they pass it in that manner....then the reconciled bill out of conference that they will vote on and pass, THEN becomes available for the senate to change and amend, with a filibuster not off the table.

The HOUSE is trying to "get around" that....

is what i believe I am seeing.


Care
 

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