Ayn Rand's Ugly Step Child

[Dante]

You've had your thread premise busted to pieces, asshole.....Just man up and admit it.

Followers of Ayn Rand almost destroyed America and the free world when they were given even an iota of power to put forth their whacky philosophical nitwittisms.

I'm not a follower or Rand or her cargo cult, numbnuts...And your thread premise is still dead.

sad thing is you don't get IT.


hint: the thread isn't about you.


moron

 

[Dante]

And you're simply making up nonsense so that you don't have to admit that you're wrong about Greenspan.

Nope.

If you believe in the free market you do not accept a job as Federal Reserve chairman, you do not artificially manipulate interest rates, and you do not accept that stimulus spending is the way to get the market out of a recession. Thus proving that Greenspan did not believe in the free market.

You are being doctrinaire and worse. Greenspan was a close associate of Rand's. He tried to make the market we have as free of regulation as he could. He was not able to do what he would've given that power (thank gawd).

There is NO invisible hand to guide markets. That is as goofy as the happy talk we hear from people in the diet pill industry.

As Fed chairman he was in a position to raise interest rates and not finance any stimulus nonsense. However, if he truly believed in the free market he wouldn't have accepted the position as Fed chairman in the first place. His entire career proves he was against the free market because he believed he could centrally plan the economy. He was at one point associated with Ayn Rand, and he did once believe in the free market. However, he gave up those beliefs.

you are still arguing doctrinaire purist bs. By your logic neither Stalin, Trotsky. Fidel nor Marx himself were communists.

Now you can try to spin the situation and make excuses as to why the supposed champion of the free market couldn't actually forward any free market policies, but it's obviously nonsense.

 

[Dante]

And you're simply making up nonsense so that you don't have to admit that you're wrong about Greenspan.

Nope.

If you believe in the free market you do not accept a job as Federal Reserve chairman, you do not artificially manipulate interest rates, and you do not accept that stimulus spending is the way to get the market out of a recession. Thus proving that Greenspan did not believe in the free market.

You are being doctrinaire and worse. Greenspan was a close associate of Rand's. He tried to make the market we have as free of regulation as he could. He was not able to do what he would've given that power (thank gawd).

There is NO invisible hand to guide markets. That is as goofy as the happy talk we hear from people in the diet pill industry.

As Fed chairman he was in...
y. He was at one point associated with Ayn Rand, and he did once believe in the free market. However, he gave up those beliefs.

In the early 1950s, Greenspan began an association with famed novelist and philosopher Ayn Rand that would last until her death in 1982. He wrote for Rand’s newsletters and authored several essays in her book Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal. Rand stood beside him at his 1974 swearing-in as Chair of the Council of Economic Advisers.

as far as Alan's relationship with crazy old Ayn...
looks like you are so far out on a limb as to be floating in thin air

 

[Oddball]

sad thing is you don't get IT.


hint: the thread isn't about you.


moron

Right...This thread is about you setting a premise against someone who promoted the idea of objective reality, subsequently debunked within minutes with objective facts.

Dumbfuck.

 

[Dante]

Right...This thread is about you setting a premise against someone who promoted the idea of objective reality, subsequently debunked within minutes with objective facts.

Dumbfuck.

why are you still here? weren't raised properly? poor manners or lacking in social skills? you appear to be blissfully aware of boundaries. when grownups speak most kids STFU and go play with themselves.

now don't let the door hit you on the way out junior.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Nope.



You are being doctrinaire and worse. Greenspan was a close associate of Rand's. He tried to make the market we have as free of regulation as he could. He was not able to do what he would've given that power (thank gawd).

There is NO invisible hand to guide markets. That is as goofy as the happy talk we hear from people in the diet pill industry.

As Fed chairman he was in a position to raise interest rates and not finance any stimulus nonsense. However, if he truly believed in the free market he wouldn't have accepted the position as Fed chairman in the first place. His entire career proves he was against the free market because he believed he could centrally plan the economy. He was at one point associated with Ayn Rand, and he did once believe in the free market. However, he gave up those beliefs.

you are still arguing doctrinaire purist bs. By your logic neither Stalin, Trotsky. Fidel nor Marx himself were communists.

Now you can try to spin the situation and make excuses as to why the supposed champion of the free market couldn't actually forward any free market policies, but it's obviously nonsense.

And you are arguing that someone who did not promote any free market policies while in a position to make a difference is the champion of the free market. I'm sorry if that makes me a free market "purist," but using your logic we could argue that Barack Obama is a huge advocate of free market capitalism.

 

[Oddball]

Right...This thread is about you setting a premise against someone who promoted the idea of objective reality, subsequently debunked within minutes with objective facts.

Dumbfuck.

why are you still here? weren't raised properly? poor manners or lacking in social skills? you appear to be blissfully aware of boundaries. when grownups speak most kids STFU and go play with themselves.

now don't let the door hit you on the way out junior.

You're now officially boring me.

Think I'll dust off the Sega Genesis and play Sonic the Hedgehog...More intellectually stimulating.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Nope.



You are being doctrinaire and worse. Greenspan was a close associate of Rand's. He tried to make the market we have as free of regulation as he could. He was not able to do what he would've given that power (thank gawd).

There is NO invisible hand to guide markets. That is as goofy as the happy talk we hear from people in the diet pill industry.

As Fed chairman he was in...
y. He was at one point associated with Ayn Rand, and he did once believe in the free market. However, he gave up those beliefs.

In the early 1950s, Greenspan began an association with famed novelist and philosopher Ayn Rand that would last until her death in 1982. He wrote for Rand’s newsletters and authored several essays in her book Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal. Rand stood beside him at his 1974 swearing-in as Chair of the Council of Economic Advisers.

as far as Alan's relationship with crazy old Ayn...
looks like you are so far out on a limb as to be floating in thin air

He also denounced his prior views during his confirmation hearings for Fed chairman as being a "young ideologue."

 

[Oddball]

And you are arguing that someone who did not promote any free market policies while in a position to make a difference is the champion of the free market. I'm sorry if that makes me a free market "purist," but using your logic we could argue that Barack Obama is a huge advocate of free market capitalism.

Using that argument you could claim that Hannibal Lecter is a vegan.

 

[Dante]

kevin, see following two posts...

 

[Dante]

As Fed chairman he was in...
y. He was at one point associated with Ayn Rand, and he did once believe in the free market. However, he gave up those beliefs.

In the early 1950s, Greenspan began an association with famed novelist and philosopher Ayn Rand that would last until her death in 1982. He wrote for Rand’s newsletters and authored several essays in her book Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal. Rand stood beside him at his 1974 swearing-in as Chair of the Council of Economic Advisers.

as far as Alan's relationship with crazy old Ayn...
looks like you are so far out on a limb as to be floating in thin air

He also denounced his prior views during his confirmation hearings for Fed chairman as being a "young ideologue."

When and with what words did Alan do exactly as you claim and specifically in what context...because...

Published on Tuesday, April 18, 2000 in the San Francisco Bay Guardian
Greenspan Shrugged:
The Reserve Chair's Philosophy Differs Little From His Ayn Rand Days
by Ralph Nader

Last year Congress made Federal Reserve Board chair Alan Greenspan a virtual regulatory czar over financial services corporations.

For longtime watchers of Greenspan the move was incongruous, if not outright risky. As a disciple of Ayn Rand, later as an economic guru for the Republican Party, and still later as a lobbyist for financial corporations, Greenspan has disagreed with regulation as a tool to protect consumers and the well-being of a free enterprise economy. Greenspan has argued that the self-interest of the corporations – the desire of corporations to protect their reputation – was all that was necessary for consumer protection.

In an article published in 1963 as part of Ayn Rand's book Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal, Greenspan declared that protection of the consumer against "dishonest and unscrupulous business was the cardinal ingredient of welfare statism."

"Regulation which is based on force and fear undermines the moral base of business dealings," he wrote. "Protection of the consumer by regulation ... is illusory."

-another view... also: Greespan had Ayn Rand at his swearing in ceremony (1974)...and Greenspan and Rand maintained a close relationship until her death in 1982.

- more stuff... -“Gold and Economic Freedom”, was published in a 1966 issue of The Objectivist. In it in he came out strongly against the very concept of a Federal Reserve, favoring an entirely privatized banking system, writing that; “…gold and economic freedom are inseparable, that the gold standard is an instrument of laissez-faire and that each implies and requires the other.”
Rand agreed. Her death on March 6th 1982 (Greenspan’s 56th birthday) saved her from seeing him take hold of the fed five years later. According to Tucille, Greenspan’s biographer, Rand never saw it coming. In fact, when Greenspan was appointed to head Richard Nixon, then Gerald Ford’s Council of Economic Advisers in 1974, Rand called him her “man in Washington”, and attended the swearing in.​

 

[Dante]

As Fed chairman he was in a position to raise interest rates and not finance any stimulus nonsense. However, if he truly believed in the free market he wouldn't have accepted the position as Fed chairman in the first place. His entire career proves he was against the free market because he believed he could centrally plan the economy. He was at one point associated with Ayn Rand, and he did once believe in the free market. However, he gave up those beliefs.

you are still arguing doctrinaire purist bs. By your logic neither Stalin, Trotsky. Fidel nor Marx himself were communists.

Now you can try to spin the situation and make excuses as to why the supposed champion of the free market couldn't actually forward any free market policies, but it's obviously nonsense.

And you are arguing that someone who did not promote any free market policies while in a position to make a difference is the champion of the free market. I'm sorry if that makes me a free market "purist," but using your logic we could argue that Barack Obama is a huge advocate of free market capitalism.

You are sounding like the fools who say Greenspan never enacted 'true' free market policies. Purist ideology is nothing but juvenile deliquency with an intellectual mask.

...

interesting link... - "Note: Though it’s easy to write off the Randians as being a marginal, fringe group or even a cult, as some have claimed, it’s worth noting that one of Rand’s close friends and disciples in the 1950s and 60s was none other than Alan Greenspan, a lifelong foe of government regulation who would go on to preside over the U.S. economy from 1987-2006 as Chairman of the Federal Reserve. In 2000, Congress handed Greenspan regulatory authority over Wall Street’s giant financial services corporations. Unfortunately, very few people spoke out at the time." -interesting link...

​

 

[judyd]

I'm always curious about conservatives' dedication to Ayn Rand, who was completely amoral and had absolutely no concern for those around her, including her husband, whom she had no problem openly cheating on.

Here's part one of a 1959 interview with Mike Wallace and Ms. Rand:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ukJiBZ8_4k]YouTube - Ayn Rand Mike Wallace Interview 1959 part 1[/ame]

 

[Dante]

I'm always curious about conservatives' dedication to Ayn Rand, who was completely amoral and had absolutely no concern for those around her, including her husband, whom she had no problem openly cheating on.

Here's part one of a 1959 interview with Mike Wallace and Ms. Rand:

edited...by moi-(DevNell>

I would imagine that most conservatives never gave crazy old Ayn a second look. The immature and lost amongst us have clung to her as that is what happens with most cult followers---they cling to a leaders every thought as if it were revelation. Poor Alan Greenspan was once lost and never found. All his major lifes work he has just about repudiated. He is what is know as an intelligent ass.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

as far as Alan's relationship with crazy old Ayn...
looks like you are so far out on a limb as to be floating in thin air

He also denounced his prior views during his confirmation hearings for Fed chairman as being a "young ideologue."

When and with what words did Alan do exactly as you claim and specifically in what context...because...

Published on Tuesday, April 18, 2000 in the San Francisco Bay Guardian
Greenspan Shrugged:
The Reserve Chair's Philosophy Differs Little From His Ayn Rand Days
by Ralph Nader

Last year Congress made Federal Reserve Board chair Alan Greenspan a virtual regulatory czar over financial services corporations.

For longtime watchers of Greenspan the move was incongruous, if not outright risky. As a disciple of Ayn Rand, later as an economic guru for the Republican Party, and still later as a lobbyist for financial corporations, Greenspan has disagreed with regulation as a tool to protect consumers and the well-being of a free enterprise economy. Greenspan has argued that the self-interest of the corporations – the desire of corporations to protect their reputation – was all that was necessary for consumer protection.

In an article published in 1963 as part of Ayn Rand's book Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal, Greenspan declared that protection of the consumer against "dishonest and unscrupulous business was the cardinal ingredient of welfare statism."

"Regulation which is based on force and fear undermines the moral base of business dealings," he wrote. "Protection of the consumer by regulation ... is illusory."

-another view... also: Greespan had Ayn Rand at his swearing in ceremony (1974)...and Greenspan and Rand maintained a close relationship until her death in 1982.

- more stuff... -“Gold and Economic Freedom”, was published in a 1966 issue of The Objectivist. In it in he came out strongly against the very concept of a Federal Reserve, favoring an entirely privatized banking system, writing that; “…gold and economic freedom are inseparable, that the gold standard is an instrument of laissez-faire and that each implies and requires the other.”
Rand agreed. Her death on March 6th 1982 (Greenspan’s 56th birthday) saved her from seeing him take hold of the fed five years later. According to Tucille, Greenspan’s biographer, Rand never saw it coming. In fact, when Greenspan was appointed to head Richard Nixon, then Gerald Ford’s Council of Economic Advisers in 1974, Rand called him her “man in Washington”, and attended the swearing in.​

So Ralph Nader believed Greenspan's policies were far too oriented towards a free market? I'm shocked!

At any rate, yes Greenspan did write an article in defense of the gold standard. Quite a good one too. It's a shame he obviously didn't hold those same beliefs when he became the chairman of the institution he formerly argued against.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

you are still arguing doctrinaire purist bs. By your logic neither Stalin, Trotsky. Fidel nor Marx himself were communists.

And you are arguing that someone who did not promote any free market policies while in a position to make a difference is the champion of the free market. I'm sorry if that makes me a free market "purist," but using your logic we could argue that Barack Obama is a huge advocate of free market capitalism.

You are sounding like the fools who say Greenspan never enacted 'true' free market policies. Purist ideology is nothing but juvenile deliquency with an intellectual mask.

...

interesting link... - "Note: Though it’s easy to write off the Randians as being a marginal, fringe group or even a cult, as some have claimed, it’s worth noting that one of Rand’s close friends and disciples in the 1950s and 60s was none other than Alan Greenspan, a lifelong foe of government regulation who would go on to preside over the U.S. economy from 1987-2006 as Chairman of the Federal Reserve. In 2000, Congress handed Greenspan regulatory authority over Wall Street’s giant financial services corporations. Unfortunately, very few people spoke out at the time." -interesting link...

​

What were his free market policies then? Did he allow the market to correct itself? Did he allow the market to establish a commodity currency? Did he attempt to dismantle the Federal Reserve from his position as Chairman?

The answer to all those questions are no.

If you think Greenspan being handed regulatory powers is somehow evidence of his free market policies I suggest you look into what a free market is.

 

[Dante]

He also denounced his prior views during his confirmation hearings for Fed chairman as being a "young ideologue."

When and with what words did Alan do exactly as you claim and specifically in what context...because...

Published on Tuesday, April 18, 2000 in the San Francisco Bay Guardian
Greenspan Shrugged:
The Reserve Chair's Philosophy Differs Little From His Ayn Rand Days
by Ralph Nader

Last year Congress made Federal Reserve Board chair Alan Greenspan a virtual regulatory czar over financial services corporations.

For longtime watchers of Greenspan the move was incongruous, if not outright risky. As a disciple of Ayn Rand, later as an economic guru for the Republican Party, and still later as a lobbyist for financial corporations, Greenspan has disagreed with regulation as a tool to protect consumers and the well-being of a free enterprise economy. Greenspan has argued that the self-interest of the corporations – the desire of corporations to protect their reputation – was all that was necessary for consumer protection.

In an article published in 1963 as part of Ayn Rand's book Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal, Greenspan declared that protection of the consumer against "dishonest and unscrupulous business was the cardinal ingredient of welfare statism."

"Regulation which is based on force and fear undermines the moral base of business dealings," he wrote. "Protection of the consumer by regulation ... is illusory."

-another view... also: Greespan had Ayn Rand at his swearing in ceremony (1974)...and Greenspan and Rand maintained a close relationship until her death in 1982.

- more stuff... -“Gold and Economic Freedom”, was published in a 1966 issue of The Objectivist. In it in he came out strongly against the very concept of a Federal Reserve, favoring an entirely privatized banking system, writing that; “…gold and economic freedom are inseparable, that the gold standard is an instrument of laissez-faire and that each implies and requires the other.”
Rand agreed. Her death on March 6th 1982 (Greenspan’s 56th birthday) saved her from seeing him take hold of the fed five years later. According to Tucille, Greenspan’s biographer, Rand never saw it coming. In fact, when Greenspan was appointed to head Richard Nixon, then Gerald Ford’s Council of Economic Advisers in 1974, Rand called him her “man in Washington”, and attended the swearing in.​

So Ralph Nader believed Greenspan's policies were far too oriented towards a free market? I'm shocked!

At any rate, yes Greenspan did write an article in defense of the gold standard. Quite a good one too. It's a shame he obviously didn't hold those same beliefs when he became the chairman of the institution he formerly argued against.

yeah, sanity overtook him. What a shame.

 

[Dante]

And you are arguing that someone who did not promote any free market policies while in a position to make a difference is the champion of the free market. I'm sorry if that makes me a free market "purist," but using your logic we could argue that Barack Obama is a huge advocate of free market capitalism.

You are sounding like the fools who say Greenspan never enacted 'true' free market policies. Purist ideology is nothing but juvenile deliquency with an intellectual mask.

...

interesting link... - "Note: Though it’s easy to write off the Randians as being a marginal, fringe group or even a cult, as some have claimed, it’s worth noting that one of Rand’s close friends and disciples in the 1950s and 60s was none other than Alan Greenspan, a lifelong foe of government regulation who would go on to preside over the U.S. economy from 1987-2006 as Chairman of the Federal Reserve. In 2000, Congress handed Greenspan regulatory authority over Wall Street’s giant financial services corporations. Unfortunately, very few people spoke out at the time." -interesting link...

​

What were his free market policies then? Did he allow the market to correct itself? Did he allow the market to establish a commodity currency? Did he attempt to dismantle the Federal Reserve from his position as Chairman?

The answer to all those questions are no.

If you think Greenspan being handed regulatory powers is somehow evidence of his free market policies I suggest you look into what a free market is.

Attempt to dismantle the Fed? So you truly are mad.

who knew?

---

Free markets appear to be in the eye of the beholder. Even Adam Smith would not meet your criteria for a Free Marketeer. Most people who mouth the free market stuff have no clue what Smith was talking about and in what context---especially in the context of his times and how he viewed a society and regulation.(not speaking of you---I hope)

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

So you admit that Alan Greenspan did not enact any free market policies while Federal Reserve chairman?

 

[Dante]

So you admit that Alan Greenspan did not enact any free market policies while Federal Reserve chairman?

I doubt we could agree on exactly what a free market policy is. I am sure we could agree on a doctrinaire definition of some sort, but I live in a world of nuance where you appear to live in a world of black and white. Never shall we meet in agreement on things as they truly are as opposed to how we'd each desire them.