Average teacher salary VS median income by state

[DaGoose]

Again, those salaries are deceptively..LOW. The sated salary is NOT for 12 months of work and it does NOT include the amount of the benefits package.

And if we were going to compare them, why not compare their income to the average person with a Master's Degree like my wife has?

Because that is completely deceptive, it ignores what the degree is in. A masters of engineering has more economic value than one in art history, so just comparing them based on how long they went to school ignores what they studied.

I agree.

I think someone with a Master's Degree in child development who can turn the lives of children around and make them productive adults has FAR more worth most.

 

[editec]

What's the significance of median income?

You don't know what median means?

50% of all incomes are above the median, 50% below.

 

[editec]

Nice try.

If you bother to check your numbers you will see that teachers, when you compensate for hours worked, get paid more than private sector workers. Additionally, if you compare them to private school teachers, they make $13,540 more than private school teachers, and that is without the benefits.

Average salaries for full-time teachers in public and private elementary and secondary schools, by selected characteristics: 2007-08

So you are taking everything into consideration? Class size? Educational requirements? Starting salary? Continuing education?

The truth is, all you right wingers are arguing why "Teachers are bad people who get too much and don't do anything". You did the SAME DAMN THING with scientists. All the posts about how scientists don't do anything but rest on their education, sit on their fat butts and collect government stipends.

Always looking for someone to point a finger at. Someone to blame. Looking for an accusation. Because that's all you've got. You know it. I know it. It can't be denied.

Take a look at the site, everything is listed, including education levels, continuing education, and experience. Plus, it is a government site so you can not dismiss it as right wing. Public school teachers outstrip private school teachers across the board. And most private school teachers do not get benefits. On top of that, private schools consistently outstrip public schools in academic performance, graduation rates, college placement, and graduation from advanced studies courses.

I am not saying teachers are bad, I am just pointing out that your insistence that public school teachers are underpaid does not stack up. The facts do not agree with your position, and you are stupid for sticking to it in the face of contrary data. If you cared half as much about science as you claimed you do you would admit that you are wrong, and go on to something else.

Prove to me, and everyone else on the board, that you are not as stupid as you pretend you are. Admit that the data you are relying on is flawed, and examine the data that the government has presented. Think about it, and show you are an adult by admitting that you have been lied to.

Don't be angry at me because I am the first person to insist you look at the truth, be angry at the people who have been lying to you for years.

Comparing public school educator salaries to private school salaries can be extremely misleading.

Many private school educators get ROOM AND BOARD, in addition to salary and benefits.
And every private school educator I knew (and I knew a lot of them) get health care, contrary to what some here have claimed.

So what is the market value of room and board?

Depends, I suppose on the state of the room and board, doesn't it?

 

[asterism]

What's the significance of median income?

You don't know what median means?

50% of all incomes are above the median, 50% below.

That's the definition, true. What's the significance?

 

[editec]

What's the significance of median income?

You don't know what median means?

50% of all incomes are above the median, 50% below.

That's the definition, true. What's the significance?

I don't understand the question.

Significance of the median?

Here's why it is a useful way of looking at a set of data.

The median describes a statistic...it is designed to help people make sense of large sets of data.

That is its signficance.

If you make the median income, half the workers make more than you do, and half make less.

Seriously, this is confusing you?

Let's take a set of stats.

4, 6, 10, 11, 12, 15, 2000

What is the average of that data set? 2058/7 = 294

What is the median of that data set? 11


See the difference?

That 2000 number wildly throws off the average thus it might mislead you if you used it to try to understand that data set.

Of course, this (and all)statistical method actually makes a lot more sense when the data set isn't just a few numbers (like my example) but thousands of data points.

There ARE times when finding an average gives you a clearer picture of what's happening than the median does.


Average median and mode are three ways of looking at large data sets.

Each has its place dependeing on the way the data is, and each has its shortcomings, too.

MODE is the most frequent number found in a data set, for example.

If you don't understand at least the basics of statistical analysis, then you really cannot understand MOST of what people debate in social science issues.

What's more if you don't understand at least some statistical methodology, you are set up to be MISLEAD by those who do.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Many private school educators get ROOM AND BOARD, in addition to salary and benefits.
And every private school educator I knew (and I knew a lot of them) get health care, contrary to what some here have claimed.

1. Could you support the ROOM AND BOARD comment with any kind of data? I'm not saying it doesn't happen early for the odd boarding school, but I would posit that it is pretty rare in the general private school teaching population. To me, many is more than a few, so many could be 6 or 7 people. However when compared as a percentage of total private school teachers I'd bet the percentage is very, VERY small.


2. My sister was a private school teacher for 5-years and the pay was about 1/2 of what public school teachers in the area made and no benefits (no paid vacation, no health care, no retirement). She loved the kids and smaller class sized but eventually had to go public to pay the bills, student loans, and be able to prepare for retirement.



>>>>

 

[asterism]

You don't know what median means?

50% of all incomes are above the median, 50% below.

That's the definition, true. What's the significance?

I don't understand the question.

Significance of the median?

Here's why it is a useful way of looking at a set of data.

The median describes a statistic...it is designed to help people make sense of large sets of data.

That is its signficance.

If you make the median income, half the workers make more than you do, and half make less.

Seriously, this is confusing you?

Let's take a set of stats.

4, 6, 10, 11, 12, 15, 2000

What is the average of that data set? 2058/7 = 294

What is the median of that data set? 11


See the difference?

That 2000 number wildly throws off the average thus it might mislead you if you used it to try to understand that data set.

Of course, this (and all)statistical method actually makes a lot more sense when the data set isn't just a few numbers (like my example) but thousands of data points.

There ARE times when finding an average gives you a clearer picture of what's happening than the median does.


Average median and mode are three ways of looking at large data sets.

Each has its place dependeing on the way the data is, and each has its shortcomings, too.

MODE is the most frequent number found in a data set, for example.

If you don't understand at least the basics of statistical analysis, then you really cannot understand MOST of what people debate in social science issues.

What's more if you don't understand at least some statistical methodology, you are set up to be MISLEAD by those who do.

Your points are quite valid, especially regarding the basics and the propensity to be misled.

So, if income were distributed like this like this 10 years ago:

1 million, 100K, 75K, 50K, 40K, 40K, 10K, 10K, 5K, 5k, 2K, 1K, 1K

And this presently:

10 million, 100K, 75K, 50K, 40K, 40K, 10K, 10K, 5K, 5k, 2K, 1K, 1K

What's the significance of the median?

 

[DaGoose]

.....My sister was a private school teacher for 5-years and the pay was about 1/2 of what public school teachers in the area made and no benefits (no paid vacation, no health care, no retirement). She loved the kids and smaller class sized but eventually had to go public to pay the bills, student loans, and be able to prepare for retirement........

Wow. Where to start..............

1) I find it telling that your sister ended up going to a public school district (and, I assume union represented) in order to get a teaching job that paid something close to a living wage.

2) With classes that are 1/2 the size the teacher/student personal time ratio would be twice the average public school teacher. No wonder private schools score higher on tests.

3) And most important......Since they are paying tuition it would be a very safe bet that the parents are much more active in the school.

 

[chanel]

Maybe some of these laid off teachers can get a job painting.

#The Sun-Sentinel today reported that: #

The Broward County School District last year paid about 34 of its painters and 24 of its roofers at least $59,000 – more per day than it paid teachers with 16 years of experience. #

Report: Florida public teachers’ salaries keep dropping | The Florida Independent

 

[Bern80]

Woe is the plight of the underpaid public school teacher huh? Assuming that teachers really do make 10% less than the avg. income in that state, there is a very simple way for teachers to make up that 10% difference or even more.........WORK THE REST OF THE YEAR LIKE EVERYONE ELSE!

 

[NYcarbineer]

A teacher has 4 to 6 years, at least, of higher education/training and is working in the profession they were trained in.

What's the average level of education in this country. What percent of Americans are working at the level they were trained (as opposed to being underemployed)?

Clearly teachers are underpaid.

 

[Bern80]

A teacher has 4 to 6 years, at least, of higher education/training and is working in the profession they were trained in.

What's the average level of education in this country. What percent of Americans are working at the level they were trained (as opposed to being underemployed)?

Clearly teachers are underpaid.

Umm did you miss my post? THEY DON'T WORK A QUARTER OF THE YEAR LIKE THE REST OF US.

Secondly, a person is not paied to compensate for their training. They are paid what the market says their skills are worth.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Weird.

What matters is not pay vs everyone else's pay. But pay vs performance, or cost vs Performance.

What would be more interesting would be average school cost per pupil vs average sat score by district.

There is anecdotal evidence that these numbers are inversely proportional. IE, the highest cost schools like in NJ, Chicago and DC have the lowest performance metrics.

 

[Bern80]

1. Could you support the ROOM AND BOARD comment with any kind of data? I'm not saying it doesn't happen early for the odd boarding school, but I would posit that it is pretty rare in the general private school teaching population. To me, many is more than a few, so many could be 6 or 7 people. However when compared as a percentage of total private school teachers I'd bet the percentage is very, VERY small.

I can tell you at the private college I went to some teachers do get free room and board. Now in the interest of full discclosure those that did were either monks or nuns as there was an on campus monastery at our school. But that type of private college is not as rare as you might think.

 

[HockeyDad]

Weird.

What matters is not pay vs everyone else's pay. But pay vs performance, or cost vs Performance.

What would be more interesting would be average school cost per pupil vs average sat score by district.

There is anecdotal evidence that these numbers are inversely proportional. IE, the highest cost schools like in NJ, Chicago and DC have the lowest performance metrics.

I think it is common knowledge that the quality of a child's education had everything to do with the parents of that child and precious little to do with the teachers. If daddy is in jail for armed robbery and mommy is a crack whore, the chances of a teacher being able to educate that child are slim to none.

Here in Wisconsin, the inner city schools which are populated almost exclusively with black kids, the Great Schools rating is an average of 2 out of 10 or worse. Go 10 miles out into the white suburbs and the Great Schools rating is an average of 9 out of 10 or better. Are the teachers that much better 10 miles away? Absolutely not...... but the parents are. This is easily verifiable. Simply go to wwwgreatschoolsorg and see for yourself. The ratings are based strictly on standardized test scores.

 

[WorldWatcher]

1. Could you support the ROOM AND BOARD comment with any kind of data? I'm not saying it doesn't happen early for the odd boarding school, but I would posit that it is pretty rare in the general private school teaching population. To me, many is more than a few, so many could be 6 or 7 people. However when compared as a percentage of total private school teachers I'd bet the percentage is very, VERY small.

I can tell you at the private college I went to some teachers do get free room and board. Now in the interest of full discclosure those that did were either monks or nuns as there was an on campus monastery at our school. But that type of private college is not as rare as you might think.

The request was for evidence supporting your claim, a single anecdotal statement is not evidence.

There are approximately 2,300 private colleges and universities in the United States awarding 2 or 4 year degrees. Survey those schools and I would wager that the vast majority do not provide free room board as part of the job.


>>>>

 

[Samson]

A teacher has 4 to 6 years, at least, of higher education/training and is working in the profession they were trained in.

What's the average level of education in this country. What percent of Americans are working at the level they were trained (as opposed to being underemployed)?

Clearly teachers are underpaid.

A. There are many teachers that have "emergency certificates" that are not "working in the profession that they were trained in [sic: dangling preposition]"

Teaching Certificate

What is an emergency teaching certificate?
Because of critical teacher shortages, some states extend temporary and emergency licenses that bypass state licensing requirements. These often are granted to individuals to teach in high-need subject areas, such as mathematics, science, special education, or bilingual education, or for high-need geographic areas such as urban schools.

 

[WorldWatcher]

A teacher has 4 to 6 years, at least, of higher education/training and is working in the profession they were trained in.

What's the average level of education in this country. What percent of Americans are working at the level they were trained (as opposed to being underemployed)?

Clearly teachers are underpaid.

A. There are many teachers that have "emergency certificates" that are not "working in the profession that they were trained in [sic: dangling preposition]"

Teaching Certificate

What is an emergency teaching certificate?
Because of critical teacher shortages, some states extend temporary and emergency licenses that bypass state licensing requirements. These often are granted to individuals to teach in high-need subject areas, such as mathematics, science, special education, or bilingual education, or for high-need geographic areas such as urban schools.

Sam,

In Virginia there are no "emergency" teaching certificates issued by VDOE, there are provisional licenses, but those are not available to just have a warm body in the classroom.



I work in the Human Resources department for a school system. We get people all the time (especially with the downturn of the economy) that think they can walk in to HR and we will hire them as a teacher. Sorry, doesn't work that way. If you don't have the background in the field, you can't be hired.

For elementary and Special Education, "experiential learning" does not count at all. You have to go back to school and take the early education courses. Once you have completed some of the course, THEN you can qualify for a provisional license and you have 3-years to complete the rest of the course work (in total 18 Semester Hours in specific areas), pass the Praxis test for Elementary, and pass the Virginia Communication and Literacy Assessment.

For secondary education, those teachers focus on a specialty curriculum area. This is where those who have degrees in a specific field typically can gain employment in education. For example an Engineer typically has a enough math courses, when combined with "experiential learning" to qualify for a provisional teaching certificate. Based on their backgrounds which have direct applicability to the subject they teach, they can get a job, however they also have a 3-year limit to meet full qualification requirements which includes completing required education coursework, passing the Specialty Praxis for that specialty area, and passing the VCLA.



Specifics of course may vary in other states.

>>>>

 

[Trajan]

as of 2009 there are 7.8 million millionaires in the US not counting primary residence....we have what? 330 million people here? you're right, thats to many.....

 

[Samson]

A teacher has 4 to 6 years, at least, of higher education/training and is working in the profession they were trained in.

What's the average level of education in this country. What percent of Americans are working at the level they were trained (as opposed to being underemployed)?

Clearly teachers are underpaid.

A. There are many teachers that have "emergency certificates" that are not "working in the profession that they were trained in [sic: dangling preposition]"

Teaching Certificate

What is an emergency teaching certificate?
Because of critical teacher shortages, some states extend temporary and emergency licenses that bypass state licensing requirements. These often are granted to individuals to teach in high-need subject areas, such as mathematics, science, special education, or bilingual education, or for high-need geographic areas such as urban schools.

Sam,

In Virginia there are no "emergency" teaching certificates issued by VDOE, there are provisional licenses, but those are not available to just have a warm body in the classroom.



I work in the Human Resources department for a school system. We get people all the time (especially with the downturn of the economy) that think they can walk in to HR and we will hire them as a teacher. Sorry, doesn't work that way. If you don't have the background in the field, you can't be hired.

For elementary and Special Education, "experiential learning" does not count at all. You have to go back to school and take the early education courses. Once you have completed some of the course, THEN you can qualify for a provisional license and you have 3-years to complete the rest of the course work (in total 18 Semester Hours in specific areas), pass the Praxis test for Elementary, and pass the Virginia Communication and Literacy Assessment.

For secondary education, those teachers focus on a specialty curriculum area. This is where those who have degrees in a specific field typically can gain employment in education. For example an Engineer typically has a enough math courses, when combined with "experiential learning" to qualify for a provisional teaching certificate. Based on their backgrounds which have direct applicability to the subject they teach, they can get a job, however they also have a 3-year limit to meet full qualification requirements which includes completing required education coursework, passing the Specialty Praxis for that specialty area, and passing the VCLA.



Specifics of course may vary in other states.

>>>>

Indeed, the quote I posted refered to some states: All I know are TX, CA, PA, but there may be more.

But, my point was, that the broad statement that every teacher has 4-6 years training in their "profession" has many exceptions. However, you have supported the arguement that teachers salaries are NOT too low: "We get people all the time (especially with the downturn of the economy) that think they can walk in to HR and we will hire them as a teacher."