Atheism Is Not A Religion!!!

[Carla_Danger]

It is NOT a religion, and if you keep saying it is, I'm going to start my own tax exempt church, and start pounding on your door at dinner time.

Seriously, it sounds ridiculous when you say it.


re·li·gion
riˈlijən/
noun

1. the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.
   "ideas about the relationship between science and religion"
   

   synonyms:

   faith, belief, worship, creed; More

   [TBODY] [/TBODY]

You will put me on your list and send me tons of postpaid tithing envelopes?

No, but I'll give you a link for where I think you should send you tithing.

https://services.myngp.com/ngponlin...=O38xUCC6cZGMCzykoyZBBDEu3ipe1B7SZQNYC+ODF5o=

 

[PratchettFan]

It is NOT a religion, and if you keep saying it is, I'm going to start my own tax exempt church, and start pounding on your door at dinner time.

Seriously, it sounds ridiculous when you say it.


re·li·gion
riˈlijən/
noun

1. the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.
   "ideas about the relationship between science and religion"
   

   synonyms:

   faith, belief, worship, creed; More

   [TBODY] [/TBODY]

You will put me on your list and send me tons of postpaid tithing envelopes?

No, but I'll give you a link for where I think you should send you tithing.

https://services.myngp.com/ngponlineservices/contribution.aspx?X=O38xUCC6cZGMCzykoyZBBDEu3ipe1B7SZQNYC+ODF5o=

 

[emilynghiem]

DF5o=

[/QUOTE]

Uh oh. Now we have some emoticons bowing in worship on this Atheist thread. Next?

 

[emilynghiem]

I wrote "prove positively", and no they cannot provide such evidence.

I was pointing out that evidence actually exists, and that we can evaluate it if we look at it. That, believe it or not, means we can actually "prove positively" that god does, or does not, exist. What we cannot do is prove it conclusively, which is why the debate rages on.

By the way, did you know that there is still no conclusive proof for the Big Bang? That does not mean there is no evidence, or that is not generally accepted as having been positively proven, it just means we still have work to do.

Funny thing, even if God set up a throne in DC and started answering petitions sent to him through a website, some people would still deny his existence.

What proof do you have? Let's have it.

And you are wrong that we would deny god if he showed himself. That is exactly what proof an atheist will accept. God actually showing himself.

Please don't say the Jesus myths are your proof.

Dear Quantum Windbag and sealybobo:
I second SB motion and want to see or work with QW to develop this proof of evidence.
Even if it isn't perfect, and still relies on faith, that will help with some of the consensus process.
Some people like QW will consider it as sufficient proof and that's good enough to reach agreement with those who do.

Sealybobo pls see my previous msg that alignment and agreement is the key,
NOT necessarily converting or changing definitions. Just starting with
what people already have, and show these are compatible with central meanings and purpose.

See also my msg to QW:
Sealybobo, even if we cannot prove Jesus one way or another
we can reach agreement that Jesus represents Justice and the process of realizing that spirit for all humanity
united as one. We don't have to believe that will happen to agree that interpretation is consistent with the Bible.

the proof that it is consistent, or the proof that this process is happening,
still relies on faith.

But the agreement depends on resolving any unforgiven issues of conflict.

what we CAN prove is a correlation:
* people who CANNOT reconcile the theist with nontheist views of Jesus as Justice
show a higher rate in proportion to unforgiven conflicts with each other
* people who CAN reconcile their theist and nontheist views
will show a higher rate of forgiveness of each other so they can reach agreement

So we can potentially prove it is neither the fault of the theist or nontheist systems
if agreement on God or Jesus can be reached or not.

The determining factor can be proven statistically to be the degree
of forgiveness and unforgiveness that correlates with reconciliation or failure to do so.

That process is what I believe we can prove.
And the interpretation is still faith based, but the AGREEMENT
on interpretation will correlate with the participants report of forgiveness as the critical factor.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

In your own article the atheist said "As much as knowledge can tell us yes". That's not saying 100% he knows. That's saying "as far as he knows".

Then he said: It's a reasonable assumption.If you want a definitive answer. Does any Christian bother to look in the dictionary to what truth actually means? There is no 100% anything. Only close to it.

I'm almost certain there is no god because there is no evidence. Science suggests god(s) were made up.

And I'm even more certain that the Jesus and Mohammad and Greek God stories are all made up. Can you say 100% Zeus doesn't exist? No. Can you? So are you agnostic about Zeus? Are you a weak or strong atheist when it comes to Zeus?

You just cannot admit you are wrong even when presented with irrefutable facts, can you? Your claim was that no one ever says they know 100% that there is no God, and I provided you with proof that there are people that say that. The fact that he also admits he could be wrong makes him intelligent and honest, which is probably why you are confused, it doesn't change the fact that he believes, with 100% certainty, that there is no god. You can blather all day long to save your ego, but you will still be wrong.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Hi QW what evidence are you talking about that can be evaluated to "prove positively that god exists?"
God being infinite cannot be represented by any such subproof or demonstration on a finite level
without still requiring some faith to connect the two.

Even if all people AGREE to connect the tangible proof with the higher concept of an infinite God,
that is still faith-based. What you are doing is reaching a consensus, but it is still faith-based and not 100% proven.

I propose to use spiritual healing to prove that what Christians are teaching is true,
natural and consistent with science and medicine.
And in the process, the action of replicating the healing builds the same kind of consensus
as "proving" it but again this is all faith-based. Even if all or most diseases can be proven
cured or prevented by healing the spirit which then affects the mind and body,
saying this comes from "God" is still faith based because we would be inferring that.

We cannot contain all what God means in finite form, perception or expression
so there is no 100% way to prove it. The most we can do is reach an agreement or consensus
and say it is proven to be consistent.

I have no evidence to prove your god exists, you have to find that on your own.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

What proof do you have? Let's have it.

And you are wrong that we would deny god if he showed himself. That is exactly what proof an atheist will accept. God actually showing himself.

Please don't say the Jesus myths are your proof.

It is not my job to prove god exists to you, especially when you refuse to admit you are wrong about human beings.

 

[sealybobo]

but the CONCEPTS that God represents (Love, Life, Nature, Universal Laws)
are not made or made up by man

We are assigning manmade terms, symbolism or language
to these preexisting laws, principles or concepts to
understand our RELATIONSHIP with the world

so the RELIGION is based on how we define or manage that RELATIONSHIP

God is the universe/love/laws of physics.
We already have names for these things. Redefining something as ‘god’ tells us nothing. To use the word ‘god’ implies a host of other attributes and if you don’t intend to apply those attributes, using the word is intentionally misleading.

God created the world in 7 days. Love did not create the world in 7 days. The universe is not god either. You are trying to redefine god. Sorry epic fail.

Hi sealybobo: That's my point!
We take concepts we already have names for and align them.
This is not converting anything. Exactly!

Some people may agree that all these things come from the same source.
Some may not.

The point is we don't have to agree on that!

As long as we agree how to use the universal laws themselves,
we can still work out conflicts into solutions, regardless what we believe is behind these laws.
[One person may use Christian law against killing, another Buddhist law
or state or federal law, as long as we agree to respect the consent of others.
we do not necessarily need to convert anyone to another system, but just use the ones they already agree to follow.]

We can still reach a consensus, and not believe the same things about where the world came from which cannot be 100% proven.

Give me 5 concepts you would take fro

In your own article the atheist said "As much as knowledge can tell us yes". That's not saying 100% he knows. That's saying "as far as he knows".

Then he said: It's a reasonable assumption.If you want a definitive answer. Does any Christian bother to look in the dictionary to what truth actually means? There is no 100% anything. Only close to it.

I'm almost certain there is no god because there is no evidence. Science suggests god(s) were made up.

And I'm even more certain that the Jesus and Mohammad and Greek God stories are all made up. Can you say 100% Zeus doesn't exist? No. Can you? So are you agnostic about Zeus? Are you a weak or strong atheist when it comes to Zeus?

You just cannot admit you are wrong even when presented with irrefutable facts, can you? Your claim was that no one ever says they know 100% that there is no God, and I provided you with proof that there are people that say that. The fact that he also admits he could be wrong makes him intelligent and honest, which is probably why you are confused, it doesn't change the fact that he believes, with 100% certainty, that there is no god. You can blather all day long to save your ego, but you will still be wrong.

Then I do too. But I/he can't be. That's impossible. That would mean he has traveled inside black holes, seen what's hiding on the other side of the moon, and he himself is all knowing. Is he? Then shut the **** up. Emily wants us to work together.

It is only you weirdo's who say 100% you believe. You believe that Jesus was the son of god, or god talked to Mohammad, or Joseph Smith, or Abraham, or whatever your weirdo belief is. We just say you are ALL full of shit. That is what I know 100%. You are insane! Now, if you and I could hold hands and agree with emily whatever it is the **** she is saying. LOL.

 

[sealybobo]

What proof do you have? Let's have it.

And you are wrong that we would deny god if he showed himself. That is exactly what proof an atheist will accept. God actually showing himself.

Please don't say the Jesus myths are your proof.

It is not my job to prove god exists to you, especially when you refuse to admit you are wrong about human beings.

What? Human's are horrible. What did god judge us for? We disobeyed and ate the ******* apple. Then we were so bad he killed all of us except Noah's family. Everyone else was bad. Then most of us non christians, you say are bad enough we're going to hell and you say the end of times are coming and your holy book has already prophecized it. It is written, right? We suck.

And if I saw a guy do a ******* miracle, I would not crucify him. I might think he's David Blane or that guy who just won America's got Talent.

But if I saw someone do a real miracle, a ghost, angel, demon I would believe. I've seen nothing. Why are we the unlucky ones in the dice roll of time? Thousands of years ago in the most illiterate parts of the world, just where aliens and sasquaches usually show up, god apparently interviened in our affairs all the time but now that we have youtube he's vanashed?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Then I do too. But I/he can't be. That's impossible. That would mean he has traveled inside black holes, seen what's hiding on the other side of the moon, and he himself is all knowing. Is he? Then shut the **** up. Emily wants us to work together.

It is only you weirdo's who say 100% you believe. You believe that Jesus was the son of god, or god talked to Mohammad, or Joseph Smith, or Abraham, or whatever your weirdo belief is. We just say you are ALL full of shit. That is what I know 100%. You are insane! Now, if you and I could hold hands and agree with emily whatever it is the **** she is saying. LOL.

That was the funniest thing I read all day.

Let me explain something to you, oh he who thinks he knows everything. nothing he said would require him to do anything you said. The simple fact is that all it takes to believe something is a simple choice to do so. You made that choice years ago, and know are upset that other people are pointing out that your beliefs are wrong. Get over it.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

What? Human's are horrible. What did god judge us for? We disobeyed and ate the ******* apple. Then we were so bad he killed all of us except Noah's family. Everyone else was bad. Then most of us non christians, you say are bad enough we're going to hell and you say the end of times are coming and your holy book has already prophecized it. It is written, right? We suck.

Are you trying to use stories you don't believe in against me? It won't work for multiple reasons, not the least of which is that no one ate an apple.

And if I saw a guy do a ******* miracle, I would not crucify him. I might think he's David Blane or that guy who just won America's got Talent.

I am pretty sure Jesus wasn't crucified because he did miracles.

Then again, you actually think Adam and Eve ate an apple.

But if I saw someone do a real miracle, a ghost, angel, demon I would believe. I've seen nothing. Why are we the unlucky ones in the dice roll of time? Thousands of years ago in the most illiterate parts of the world, just where aliens and sasquaches usually show up, god apparently interviened in our affairs all the time but now that we have youtube he's vanashed?

Would you?

 

[MaxGrit]

Atheism is the religion of nonreligion.

 

[PostmodernProph]

some things about evolution have been proven.......others have less support in fact than many philosophies.......

Some mathematical theories haven't been proved. That doesn't preclude the teaching of math.

should math claim that which has not been proven, has been proven?.......

(Aside: That should be ...has been proved...just sayin'.....a thing that has been proved is a proven thing.)

No. If there is no evidence that it should be considered inaccurate, it should be presented as an unproven theory if it is to be taught in math class. Applying this same metric to creationism precludes its being taught in government schools because there is ample evidence showing that it is false.

I disagree there is ample evidence showing it to be false. There is no evidence showing it to be false. At the same time, there is no evidence showing it to be true. The problem with creationism is that it never gets further than a hypothesis.

What is known about evolution proves that is the universe was not created in 6 days and that the earth is far more than 6000 years old.

do you believe that if it took longer than six days or happened longer ago, that the universe was therefore not created?......

 

[Carla_Danger]

Atheism is the religion of nonreligion.

And abstinence is the sexual position of a non sexual position.

Wait...that doesn't make any sense.

 

[PratchettFan]

Atheism is the religion of nonreligion.

And abstinence is the sexual position of a non sexual position.

Wait...that doesn't make any sense.

Then you're not doing it right.

 

[Carla_Danger]

Atheism is the religion of nonreligion.

And abstinence is the sexual position of a non sexual position.

Wait...that doesn't make any sense.

Then you're not doing it right.

I'm certainly not doing it by choice. LOL!

 

[MaxGrit]

Atheism is the religion of nonreligion.

And abstinence is the sexual position of a non sexual position.

Wait...that doesn't make any sense.

Then you're not doing it right.

I'm certainly not doing it by choice. LOL!

Atheism is a choice to believe in nonsense.

 

[asaratis]

Some mathematical theories haven't been proved. That doesn't preclude the teaching of math.

should math claim that which has not been proven, has been proven?.......

(Aside: That should be ...has been proved...just sayin'.....a thing that has been proved is a proven thing.)

No. If there is no evidence that it should be considered inaccurate, it should be presented as an unproven theory if it is to be taught in math class. Applying this same metric to creationism precludes its being taught in government schools because there is ample evidence showing that it is false.

I disagree there is ample evidence showing it to be false. There is no evidence showing it to be false. At the same time, there is no evidence showing it to be true. The problem with creationism is that it never gets further than a hypothesis.

What is known about evolution proves that is the universe was not created in 6 days and that the earth is far more than 6000 years old.

do you believe that if it took longer than six days or happened longer ago, that the universe was therefore not created?......

Your conclusion is flawed, but yes I believe the creation of the universe started with the big bang...13.77 BILLION years ago. I believe that an outside supernatural being cranked off the big bang, thus becoming the creator of all that is within the universe.

 

[emilynghiem]

Give me 5 concepts you would take fro

I am guessing you are asking which 5 concepts from nontheistic approaches I would align with God and/or Jesus?

It depends on the people, but most people respond to one or more of these angles, maybe others:
1. correcting problems by focusing on truth and reaching agreement on truth
so "Truth" is one angle
2. solving problems with crime and abuse so there is Justice and restitution/correction and prevention
so "Restorative Justice" is the main angle I propose for what Christ Jesus means in fulfilling the purpose of law
3. resolving conflicts between religious or political groups to stop abuses by religious or political authority
So again a combination of focusing on "Truth and Justice" but on a collective scale and/or applied to politics
4. addressing poverty and social ills with sustainable solutions such as microlending and business training
so Charity and how to make it sustainable and solve problems, not enable them to continue
as the spirit of Christianity in practical universal terms, of truly liberating and healing people, not just enabling more poverty
5. training in conflict resolution, legal mediation and/or other methods of reducing violence, waste or abuse of resources on govt problems or political conflicts, especially applied to restitution owed to victims or taxpayers from crime or corruption
specifically for Restorative Justice, focusing on financial restitution for crime and corruption
investing resources, labor or credit into solutions that all parties agree would solve the problem and pay back justice

I just started posting a rundown of sustainable solutions to poverty by investing restitution for trafficking abuses
into rebuilding campus communities to stabilize affected areas. See other thread by jwoodie or I'll post the link here.

Then I do too. But I/he can't be. That's impossible. That would mean he has traveled inside black holes, seen what's hiding on the other side of the moon, and he himself is all knowing. Is he? Then shut the **** up. Emily wants us to work together.

It is only you weirdo's who say 100% you believe. You believe that Jesus was the son of god, or god talked to Mohammad, or Joseph Smith, or Abraham, or whatever your weirdo belief is. We just say you are ALL full of shit. That is what I know 100%. You are insane! Now, if you and I could hold hands and agree with emily whatever it is the **** she is saying. LOL.

If we don't agree on the blackhole theories, or if any deified god talked to anyone, including our Founding Fathers who prayed to this deified God for wisdom to lead our nation in the direction we are meant to go by divine providence,
can we agree that
Retributive approaches to justice, in trying to judge and punish or reject each other causes equal division and unrest
and ill will between us.
Restorative approaches to justice that focus on corrections have a better chance of producing a constructive idea or outcome that we can use to solve problems.

If we can agree on that, this is what I mean about what Christianity uses Christ Jesus to symbolize.
it represents that process of turning around all that negative past we carry
so we can switch gears and focus on positive problem solving. In order to
make that shift, that is where letting go and forgiving comes in.

We cannot shift gears while going full steam ahead in anger or disgust at each other.

We have to agree to neutralize first, then shift to take a different direction.

Sealybobo, can you list 5 goals that you would like to focus on, similar to the vague list I posted above.
Then I can show you what I mean by focusing on love of Truth Justice and Peace as helping to achieve
these goals in unison with others. So that is one way of interpreting what is meant by God Christ and HolySpirit.

You can also say it represents the collective whole of humanity rejoined in harmony between
Body, Mind, and Spirit. So when we are all full focus and peace on all levels, we can achieve these goals.
with our thoughts, words and actions in unison:
individual efforts and collective efforts joined in relationship or partnership on common goals in agreement,
or if you want to use Constitutional terms for these three levels
the judicial level of interpreting what is truth and justice,
the legislative level of agreement by conscience on contracts or policies or plans to enforce,
and the executive level of carrying out our plans or agreements by consent, by meeting of the minds.

So this is what i mean by the same levels represented in the Bible and Trinity
can be expressed in other ways that still relate to how we believe about human
relations and how we should treat each other locally in order to do the most good globally.

these levels are joined by "conscience," where this central connection that makes us
relate from our own experiences in life to humanity collectively is the meaning of being joined in spirit in Christ.

If we can align in spirit, by conscience, then the words and language we use to express ourselves can follow from there.

 

[sealybobo]

Give me 5 concepts you would take fro

I am guessing you are asking which 5 concepts from nontheistic approaches I would align with God and/or Jesus?

It depends on the people, but most people respond to one or more of these angles, maybe others:
1. correcting problems by focusing on truth and reaching agreement on truth
so "Truth" is one angle
2. solving problems with crime and abuse so there is Justice and restitution/correction and prevention
so "Restorative Justice" is the main angle I propose for what Christ Jesus means in fulfilling the purpose of law
3. resolving conflicts between religious or political groups to stop abuses by religious or political authority
So again a combination of focusing on "Truth and Justice" but on a collective scale and/or applied to politics
4. addressing poverty and social ills with sustainable solutions such as microlending and business training
so Charity and how to make it sustainable and solve problems, not enable them to continue
as the spirit of Christianity in practical universal terms, of truly liberating and healing people, not just enabling more poverty
5. training in conflict resolution, legal mediation and/or other methods of reducing violence, waste or abuse of resources on govt problems or political conflicts, especially applied to restitution owed to victims or taxpayers from crime or corruption
specifically for Restorative Justice, focusing on financial restitution for crime and corruption
investing resources, labor or credit into solutions that all parties agree would solve the problem and pay back justice

I just started posting a rundown of sustainable solutions to poverty by investing restitution for trafficking abuses
into rebuilding campus communities to stabilize affected areas. See other thread by jwoodie or I'll post the link here.

Then I do too. But I/he can't be. That's impossible. That would mean he has traveled inside black holes, seen what's hiding on the other side of the moon, and he himself is all knowing. Is he? Then shut the **** up. Emily wants us to work together.

It is only you weirdo's who say 100% you believe. You believe that Jesus was the son of god, or god talked to Mohammad, or Joseph Smith, or Abraham, or whatever your weirdo belief is. We just say you are ALL full of shit. That is what I know 100%. You are insane! Now, if you and I could hold hands and agree with emily whatever it is the **** she is saying. LOL.

If we don't agree on the blackhole theories, or if any deified god talked to anyone, including our Founding Fathers who prayed to this deified God for wisdom to lead our nation in the direction we are meant to go by divine providence,
can we agree that
Retributive approaches to justice, in trying to judge and punish or reject each other causes equal division and unrest
and ill will between us.
Restorative approaches to justice that focus on corrections have a better chance of producing a constructive idea or outcome that we can use to solve problems.

If we can agree on that, this is what I mean about what Christianity uses Christ Jesus to symbolize.
it represents that process of turning around all that negative past we carry
so we can switch gears and focus on positive problem solving. In order to
make that shift, that is where letting go and forgiving comes in.

We cannot shift gears while going full steam ahead in anger or disgust at each other.

We have to agree to neutralize first, then shift to take a different direction.

Sealybobo, can you list 5 goals that you would like to focus on, similar to the vague list I posted above.
Then I can show you what I mean by focusing on love of Truth Justice and Peace as helping to achieve
these goals in unison with others. So that is one way of interpreting what is meant by God Christ and HolySpirit.

You can also say it represents the collective whole of humanity rejoined in harmony between
Body, Mind, and Spirit. So when we are all full focus and peace on all levels, we can achieve these goals.
with our thoughts, words and actions in unison:
individual efforts and collective efforts joined in relationship or partnership on common goals in agreement,
or if you want to use Constitutional terms for these three levels
the judicial level of interpreting what is truth and justice,
the legislative level of agreement by conscience on contracts or policies or plans to enforce,
and the executive level of carrying out our plans or agreements by consent, by meeting of the minds.

So this is what i mean by the same levels represented in the Bible and Trinity
can be expressed in other ways that still relate to how we believe about human
relations and how we should treat each other locally in order to do the most good globally.

these levels are joined by "conscience," where this central connection that makes us
relate from our own experiences in life to humanity collectively is the meaning of being joined in spirit in Christ.

If we can align in spirit, by conscience, then the words and language we use to express ourselves can follow from there.

Here is one problem I'd like to solve. The prison system. We all know it doesn't work. It is not designed for rehab. It is designed for punishment. As a "chistian" nation, I think we can and should do better than that. What say you?