Zone1 At the Last Supper Jesus gave wine and real bread

[Zebra]

in Church one has a host or waver instead of real bread.

Why is that so?

Or do some churches give real bread?

 

[JGalt]

in Church one has a host or waver instead of real bread.

Why is that so?

Or do some churches give real bread?

My wife always provides Welch's grape juice and day-old French bread from the "We Made Too Much" cart at Walmart, when they do Communion at her church.

I don't usually attend because the thought of soggy bread dipped in Welch's grape juice is nasty.

 

[Woodznutz]

in Church one has a host or waver instead of real bread.

Why is that so?

Or do some churches give real bread?

We had matzos, broken in small pieces.

 

[Zebra]

this dipping brings me to the next question .....

in another thread ....

 

[Woodznutz]

My wife always provides Welch's grape juice and day-old French bread from the "We Made Too Much" cart at Walmart, when they do Communion at her church.

I don't usually attend because the thought of soggy bread dipped in Welch's grape juice is nasty.

The bread and wine are consumed separately just as was done at the last supper. Why the RCC combines them is a mystery. Also, why they insist that the wine-soaked host becomes the literal body and blood of Christ is also a mystery, as he changed the sacrificial symbols from flesh and blood to bread and wine.

 

[Lisa558]

in Church one has a host or waver instead of real bread.

Why is that so?

Or do some churches give real bread?

What I want to know is why are churches giving out bread in commemoration of Jesus’ Passover Seder. Jews eat Matza. So the question is, are these churches denying that the Last Supper was a Seder?

 

[Zebra]

What I want to know is why are churches giving out bread in commemoration of Jesus’ Passover Seder. Jews eat Matza. So the question is, are these churches denying that the Last Supper was a Seder?

it is an essential element in Christianity

 

[Lisa558]

it is an essential element in Christianity

Yes, well Challah is an essential element of Jewish tradition, but during Passover we eat Matzah. So the question still is: do Christians acknowledge that Jesus and his followers were at a Seder? If so, why wouldn’t churches have matzah at Seders (for the churches that do so)?

 

[Zebra]

Yes, well Challah is an essential element of Jewish tradition, but during Passover we eat Matzah. So the question still is: do Christians acknowledge that Jesus and his followers were at a Seder? If so, why wouldn’t churches have matzah at Seders (for the churches that do so)?

I pass this question on ...

 

[Woodznutz]

What I want to know is why are churches giving out bread in commemoration of Jesus’ Passover Seder. Jews eat Matza. So the question is, are these churches denying that the Last Supper was a Seder?

Churches serve both depending on their tradition. Both churches I have attended in my life serve Matzos. However, there is no evidence that Jesus served unleavened bread at the 'last supper'. Unleavened bread wasn't required until the feast of unleavened bread began. Passover is erroneously conflated with the feast of unleavened bread, but it is actually a separate day of commemoration and is not an actual Sabbath day as ordinary work can be done on the day.

 

[Lisa558]

Churches serve both depending on their tradition. Both churches I have attended in my life serve Matzos. However, there is no evidence that Jesus served unleavened bread at the 'last supper'. Unleavened bread wasn't required until the next day, the "first day of unleavened bread". Passover is erroneously called the first day of unleavened bread, but it is actually a separate day of commemoration and is not an actual Sabbath day as ordinary work can be done on the day.

Thank you for this information.

But as far as Passover observance, you’re only partially correct. The middle days of Passover are indeed regular working days, but the first two days and last two days (Days 1, 2, 7, and 8) are full holidays and observant Jews do not work those days.

 

[Woodznutz]

Thank you for this information.

But as far as Passover observance, you’re only partially correct. The middle days of Passover are indeed regular working days, but the first two days and last two days (Days 1, 2, 7, and 8) are full holidays and observant Jews do not work those days.

I think you mean the middle days of unleavened bread. Passover is only one day followed by the seven days of unleavened bread. Only the first and seventh day are 'high Sabbaths'.

 

[Woodznutz]

this dipping brings me to the next question .....

in another thread ....

It's more sanitary. Recall that Jesus said "Drink ye all of it", suggesting that a single cup was passed to all of the disciples.

Also, the church wouldn't look kindly on the faithful accidently spilling "the blood of Christ", or some zealot drinking the whole chalice.

 

[Lisa558]

I think you mean the middle days of unleavened bread. Passover is only one day followed by the seven days of unleavened bread. Only the first and seventh day are 'high Sabbaths'.

That might be Christian language, but it’s a Jewish holiday and the entire 8 days are called Passover.

 

[Woodznutz]

That might be Christian language, but it’s a Jewish holiday and the entire 8 days are called Passover.

It went from being one of the "feasts of the Lord" (Lev. 23) to a holiday of the Jews. Even John recognized this.

Actually, they were holy days given to all of ancient Israel. The Jews think they own them because the rest of Israel is still 'lost'. Anyway, most have been fulfilled by Jesus' first appearance, most significantly Passover. We no longer look forward to these events happening as some have already been fulfilled. They all have a prophetic timeline.

 

[ding]

Also, why they insist that the wine-soaked host becomes the literal body and blood of Christ is also a mystery, as he changed the sacrificial symbols from flesh and blood to bread and wine.

It’s not a mystery. Jesus commanded it and the first Christians believed the real presence of Christ is in the Eucharist because Jesus said it is.

 

[Lisa558]

It went from being one of the "feasts of the Lord" (Lev. 23) to a holiday of the Jews. Even John recognized this.

Actually, they were holy days given to all of ancient Israel. The Jews think they own them because the rest of Israel is still 'lost'. Anyway, most have been fulfilled by Jesus' first appearance, most significantly Passover. We no longer look forward to these events happening as some have already been fulfilled. They all have a prophetic timeline.

Whatever. To most people, Passover is a Jewish holiday, commemorating the exodus of the Jewish slaves from Egypt, and commemorated for 7 or 8 days, depending on location.

Jesus was not involved in the first Passover, of course, but as a practicing Jew, he celebrated Passover.

Also, Jews await the arrival of the Messiah, who will be a human, as he has not arrived yet according to our religion.

 

[Woodznutz]

Whatever. To most people, Passover is a Jewish holiday, commemorating the exodus of the Jewish slaves from Egypt, and commemorated for 7 or 8 days, depending on location.

Jesus was not involved in the first Passover, of course, but as a practicing Jew, he celebrated Passover.

Also, Jews await the arrival of the Messiah, who will be a human, as he has not arrived yet according to our religion.

Many Christian churches keep the Passover, not to commemorate the Exodus, but the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.