Arizona Senate Passes Bill Allowing Business Owners To Refuse Service To Gays

[kaz]

Conservatives are actually lizard people from another galaxy who come here to cause societal havoc by advocating the rich and driving badly in snow. Don't you just wish ET would go home now?

Damn you! You told!! I'm reporting you to the Mothership.

I need a copy of that report for a statistical analysis, stat!!!

No need, memories are being erased as we speak. And winter tires are being replaced with bald ones...

 

[Gadawg73]

Their problem is that they think of themselves as liberals, who are open minded and tolerant, but in reality they are authoritarian leftists who are closed minded and rigidly intolerant. That contradiction in their views and their self perception leads to unending hypocrisy in what they say and the positions they advocate.

Liberal is an antonym of authoritarian. The reality is if liberals don't tolerate racism, bigotry and don't worship the opulent, we are not pen minded and tolerant.

The history of mankind has been a struggle between those who want to increase freedom, opportunity and rights to all people and those who want to restrict them. The people who have always fought to increase freedom, opportunity and rights are liberals. The people who have fought to restrict them are conservatives.

Liberals believe people are basically good, conservatives believe people are basically evil.
Liberals believe in raising people up, conservatives believe in pushing people down.
Liberals believe in encouragement, conservatives believe in scorn.
Liberals always stand up for the little guy, conservatives always stand up for the big guy.

Classical liberals assume a natural equality of humans; conservatives assume a natural hierarchy.
James M. Buchanan

While not all conservatives are authoritarians; all highly authoritarian personalities are political conservatives.
Robert Altmeyer - The Authoritarians

Conservatives are actually lizard people from another galaxy who come here to cause societal havoc by advocating the rich and driving badly in snow. Don't you just wish ET would go home now?

The ladies did say I had a large tongue among other things.
Could not resist jumping on the lizard people band wagon!

 

[Statistikhengst]

I sense that the butthurt on this thread "Waaaaahhhhh! I now have to sell a cake to a, a, a Homosexual!!! Waaah!" is going to continue for a long, long, long time.

It is just really deep in the deepest of RWNJ DNA.

lolz....

 

[Iceweasel]

The loyalists were the conservatives as they wanted to conserve what already existed, the status quo.

That isn't what political conservativism means. Repeating it doesn't make it any truer.

The land and country was defined as The Americas or the Colonies.
Everyone here defined themselves AS BRITISH.
Term American did not come into well after the war.
The United States Constitution was the most liberal document in the world when written.

Horseshit. You are using dictionary terms in their strictest sense. If it was so godamn liberal why do today's liberals consider it just a guide or a living breathing document?

I get my history from the writings of Captain and then Judge Jacob Terhune, militia Bergen County starting in 1776 through his time as a Judge into the 19th century. My family still has all his writings held on the family farm in Clintondale NY.
Look it up.
You?

That's cool but history is bigger than the captain/judge and it's always important to put things in context. If he said the founders were liberals, post it up. I posted a quote with link, you couldn't see it?

 

[Statistikhengst]

The loyalists were the conservatives as they wanted to conserve what already existed, the status quo.

That isn't what political conservativism means. Repeating it doesn't make it any truer.

The land and country was defined as The Americas or the Colonies.
Everyone here defined themselves AS BRITISH.
Term American did not come into well after the war.
The United States Constitution was the most liberal document in the world when written.

Horseshit. You are using dictionary terms in their strictest sense. If it was so godamn liberal why do today's liberals consider it just a guide or a living breathing document?

I get my history from the writings of Captain and then Judge Jacob Terhune, militia Bergen County starting in 1776 through his time as a Judge into the 19th century. My family still has all his writings held on the family farm in Clintondale NY.
Look it up.
You?

That's cool but history is bigger than the captain/judge and it's always important to put things in context. If he said the founders were liberals, post it up. I posted a quote with link, you couldn't see it?

What, did you elect yourself to speak for Liberals, or what?


lolz....

 

[Londoner]

Horseshit. You are using dictionary terms in their strictest sense. If it was so godamn liberal why do today's liberals consider it just a guide or a living breathing document?

Good effort. I agree partially, but here is where I think there is room for improvement.

People say - perhaps rightly, perhaps wrongly - that there is small portion of "Talk Radio Republicans" who get the bulk of their information from a very small class of partisan pundits (across various pop media sources). These pundits don't teach intellectual history, they just circulate a very fixed and dogmatic set of talking points. Don't prove them right.

The Framers were deeply inspired by Enlightenment Liberals like John Locke. You should really study this stuff. The USA was born in part as a reaction to old Conservative Europe, with its hereditary privilege and Divine Rights of Kings. Indeed, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, due process, etc., were all inspired by the Liberalism that took over Europe in the 1700s and came to fruition in the French Revolution (opposed by great Conservatives like Edmund Burke, who saw the topdown social/political changes as contradicting the natural/traditional fabric of society). The fight between Religion and Science (between Galileo and the Church) was also a fight between liberals (who were championing science) and conservatives (who were protecting Biblical Cosmology (geocentrism) from Gallilaen Heliocentrism). You should know this stuff so you can properly evaluate your own political beliefs.

New Deal Liberalism is a variant of Liberalism, as is Libertarianism (which builds around the classical liberalism of John Locke and Adam Smith, but shares much of the social liberalism of the American Liberals). You should realize where all these varieties of Liberalism overlap and where they differ so you can contribute more fully.

An interesting intellectual exercise for you. Some intellectual historians think that FDR modified Liberalism (with the New Deal) as much as Reagan modified conservatism (by embracing Libertarianism). If you're going to enter these discussions, you should know this stuff. You should know the difference between say Keynes (who believed in markets and private property) and Marx (who did not). Rather than letting your thought be controlled by men like Rush Limbaugh, who don't teach the nuances of intellectual history, I very respectfully and humbly suggest that you do more historical research.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Liberal is an antonym of authoritarian.

You admit it then, a liberal would never use force to get his way.

What, exactly, does that make you?

The reality is if liberals don't tolerate racism, bigotry and don't worship the opulent, we are not pen minded and tolerant.

Liberals have consistently fought for the right of people to be racists and bigots, which is why the ACLU was always willing to go to court to defend the rights of the KKK to hold protests, and why they still speak up in defense of Westboro Baptist Church.

The history of mankind has been a struggle between those who want to increase freedom, opportunity and rights to all people and those who want to restrict them. The people who have always fought to increase freedom, opportunity and rights are liberals. The people who have fought to restrict them are conservatives.

Liberals believe people are basically good, conservatives believe people are basically evil.
Liberals believe in raising people up, conservatives believe in pushing people down.
Liberals believe in encouragement, conservatives believe in scorn.
Liberals always stand up for the little guy, conservatives always stand up for the big guy.

Classical liberals assume a natural equality of humans; conservatives assume a natural hierarchy.
James M. Buchanan

While not all conservatives are authoritarians; all highly authoritarian personalities are political conservatives.
Robert Altmeyer - The Authoritarians

 

[Gadawg73]

Liberal is an antonym of authoritarian.

You admit it then, a liberal would never use force to get his way.

What, exactly, does that make you?

The reality is if liberals don't tolerate racism, bigotry and don't worship the opulent, we are not pen minded and tolerant.

Liberals have consistently fought for the right of people to be racists and bigots, which is why the ACLU was always willing to go to court to defend the rights of the KKK to hold protests, and why they still speak up in defense of Westboro Baptist Church.

The history of mankind has been a struggle between those who want to increase freedom, opportunity and rights to all people and those who want to restrict them. The people who have always fought to increase freedom, opportunity and rights are liberals. The people who have fought to restrict them are conservatives.

Liberals believe people are basically good, conservatives believe people are basically evil.
Liberals believe in raising people up, conservatives believe in pushing people down.
Liberals believe in encouragement, conservatives believe in scorn.
Liberals always stand up for the little guy, conservatives always stand up for the big guy.

Classical liberals assume a natural equality of humans; conservatives assume a natural hierarchy.
James M. Buchanan

While not all conservatives are authoritarians; all highly authoritarian personalities are political conservatives.
Robert Altmeyer - The Authoritarians

ACLU defends street preachers against local and municipal ordinances that forbid them from preaching in the street.
The bigots and racists you claim those street preachers are.

 

[Londoner]

Liberals have consistently fought for the right of people to be racists and bigots, which is why the ACLU was always willing to go to court to defend the rights of the KKK to hold protests, and why they still speak up in defense of Westboro Baptist Church.

They're defending free speech. Without Constitutional Protections, African Americans and minorities would be far worse off.

I have a deeply Libertarian friend who happens to be a criminal attorney. He believes that Government should not be able to incarcerate citizens without due process. He believes in the Rights that all citizens are accorded by our legal system, and he thinks that maintaining those Rights is crucial to a free society. He doesn't want the US to become like the Soviet Union where people are jailed for their political beliefs. He believes in the Fifth Amendment of the US Constitution as much as the ACLU believes in the First Amendment. Does this mean - per your ACLU logic - that my friend wants criminals to go free? Answer: no, because the biggest crime of all is a world where Government doesn't give citizens legal rights. (Psst: you can't only defend the Constitution when it produces outcomes you agree with. This is what Conservatives tend to do)

(I remember when Reagan ignored the Constitution by selling weapons to Iran. Then Bush ignored the Constitution with his illegal wiretapping program, subsequently brought within FISA. It made me realize that Republicans are typically willing to destroy the Constitution when the cause, in their opinion, is just. The ACLU, on the other hand, believes that defending our Constitutional protections is the most just cause of all. Anyway, you are proving my point.)

 

[DriftingSand]

The Framers were deeply inspired by Enlightenment Liberals like John Locke. You should really study this stuff. The USA was born in part as a reaction to old Conservative Europe, with its hereditary privilege and Divine Rights of Kings.

Really? May I introduce you to some hidden truth? The kind of truth that today's secularists DON'T want you to see!! The two videos are a MUST for anyone who really wants to know the facts concerning most of our founders:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA2v4m3fY3g"]David Barton's Capitol Tour - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwvkcXBNm3Q"]Mike Huckabee David Barton Founders of the Constitution 080109.flv - YouTube[/ame]

 

[PaintMyHouse]

The Framers were deeply inspired by Enlightenment Liberals like John Locke. You should really study this stuff. The USA was born in part as a reaction to old Conservative Europe, with its hereditary privilege and Divine Rights of Kings.

Really? May I introduce you to some hidden truth? The kind of truth that today's secularists DON'T want you to see!! The two videos are a MUST for anyone who really wants to know the facts concerning most of our founders:

Barton? The guy who never studied history and who is not a historian? Go for it.

 

[DriftingSand]

The Framers were deeply inspired by Enlightenment Liberals like John Locke. You should really study this stuff. The USA was born in part as a reaction to old Conservative Europe, with its hereditary privilege and Divine Rights of Kings.

Really? May I introduce you to some hidden truth? The kind of truth that today's secularists DON'T want you to see!! The two videos are a MUST for anyone who really wants to know the facts concerning most of our founders:

Barton? The guy who never studied history and who is not a historian? Go for it.

You can't address the facts so you attack the man? Really? That's called "stooping."

Anyone with half a brain can tell that he knows history better than the libs in media and/or today's Congress (and folks like yourself).

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Really? May I introduce you to some hidden truth? The kind of truth that today's secularists DON'T want you to see!! The two videos are a MUST for anyone who really wants to know the facts concerning most of our founders:

Barton? The guy who never studied history and who is not a historian? Go for it.

You can't address the facts so you attack the man? Really? That's called "stooping."

Anyone with half a brain can tell that he knows history better than the libs in media and/or today's Congress (and folks like yourself).

Barton has been debunked time and again. Google him.

If you wish to post some of his "claims", do so and we'll tear them apart. It's quiet so now would be a good time. And ask yourself, shouldn't you get your history from someone actually trained in such a thing?

 

[DriftingSand]

(I remember when Reagan ignored the Constitution by selling weapons to Iran. Then Bush ignored the Constitution with his illegal wiretapping program, subsequently brought within FISA. It made me realize that Republicans are typically willing to destroy the Constitution when the cause, in their opinion, is just. The ACLU, on the other hand, believes that defending our Constitutional protections is the most just cause of all. Anyway, you are proving my point.)

Since Bush ... can you think of any Presidents who have maintained America's spy program; drone program; the Dept. of Homeland "Insecurity"; and the Patriot Act? Anyone come to mind? Anyone at all?

 

[DriftingSand]

Barton? The guy who never studied history and who is not a historian? Go for it.

You can't address the facts so you attack the man? Really? That's called "stooping."

Anyone with half a brain can tell that he knows history better than the libs in media and/or today's Congress (and folks like yourself).

Barton has been debunked time and again. Google him.

If you wish to post some of his "claims", do so and we'll tear them apart. It's quiet so now would be a good time. And ask yourself, shouldn't you get your history from someone actually trained in such a thing?

Did he state facts in the two videos above or did he not? Were many of the founders preachers of the Gospel or were they not? Did Jefferson hold Church services in the halls of Congress or did he not? Quit attacking Barton while sidestepping the actual facts presented by him.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

You can't address the facts so you attack the man? Really? That's called "stooping."

Anyone with half a brain can tell that he knows history better than the libs in media and/or today's Congress (and folks like yourself).

Barton has been debunked time and again. Google him.

If you wish to post some of his "claims", do so and we'll tear them apart. It's quiet so now would be a good time. And ask yourself, shouldn't you get your history from someone actually trained in such a thing?

Did he state facts in the two videos above or did he not? Were many of the founders preachers of the Gospel or were they not? Did Jefferson hold Church services in the halls of Congress or did he not? Quit attacking Barton while sidestepping the actual facts presented by him.

I'm attacking the source only because he is well known for not being on the level and he has no formal training as a Historian. What he wants is a Christian Nation, and that's what he presents. Facts to him are what make his case, not what is actually true.

As for Jefferson, he did an edit on the Bible with a knife and cut out what he thought was all the nonsense about Jesus. Are you sure you want to go with him?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Liberal is an antonym of authoritarian.

You admit it then, a liberal would never use force to get his way.

What, exactly, does that make you?



Liberals have consistently fought for the right of people to be racists and bigots, which is why the ACLU was always willing to go to court to defend the rights of the KKK to hold protests, and why they still speak up in defense of Westboro Baptist Church.

The history of mankind has been a struggle between those who want to increase freedom, opportunity and rights to all people and those who want to restrict them. The people who have always fought to increase freedom, opportunity and rights are liberals. The people who have fought to restrict them are conservatives.

Liberals believe people are basically good, conservatives believe people are basically evil.
Liberals believe in raising people up, conservatives believe in pushing people down.
Liberals believe in encouragement, conservatives believe in scorn.
Liberals always stand up for the little guy, conservatives always stand up for the big guy.

Classical liberals assume a natural equality of humans; conservatives assume a natural hierarchy.
James M. Buchanan

While not all conservatives are authoritarians; all highly authoritarian personalities are political conservatives.
Robert Altmeyer - The Authoritarians

ACLU defends street preachers against local and municipal ordinances that forbid them from preaching in the street.
The bigots and racists you claim those street preachers are.

I claim they are racists? When did I do that?

 

[Silhouette]

I'm attacking the source only because he is well known for not being on the level and he has no formal training as a Historian. What he wants is a Christian Nation, and that's what he presents. Facts to him are what make his case, not what is actually true.

As for Jefferson, he did an edit on the Bible with a knife and cut out what he thought was all the nonsense about Jesus. Are you sure you want to go with him?

Thought you were talking about the cult of LGBT there for sure with the "facts to him are what make his case, not what is actually true" part...

 

[Iceweasel]

Horseshit. You are using dictionary terms in their strictest sense. If it was so godamn liberal why do today's liberals consider it just a guide or a living breathing document?

Good effort. I agree partially, but here is where I think there is room for improvement.

People say - perhaps rightly, perhaps wrongly - that there is small portion of "Talk Radio Republicans" who get the bulk of their information from a very small class of partisan pundits (across various pop media sources). These pundits don't teach intellectual history, they just circulate a very fixed and dogmatic set of talking points. Don't prove them right.

The Framers were deeply inspired by Enlightenment Liberals like John Locke. You should really study this stuff. The USA was born in part as a reaction to old Conservative Europe, with its hereditary privilege and Divine Rights of Kings. Indeed, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, due process, etc., were all inspired by the Liberalism that took over Europe in the 1700s and came to fruition in the French Revolution (opposed by great Conservatives like Edmund Burke, who saw the topdown social/political changes as contradicting the natural/traditional fabric of society). The fight between Religion and Science (between Galileo and the Church) was also a fight between liberals (who were championing science) and conservatives (who were protecting Biblical Cosmology (geocentrism) from Gallilaen Heliocentrism). You should know this stuff so you can properly evaluate your own political beliefs.

New Deal Liberalism is a variant of Liberalism, as is Libertarianism (which builds around the classical liberalism of John Locke and Adam Smith, but shares much of the social liberalism of the American Liberals). You should realize where all these varieties of Liberalism overlap and where they differ so you can contribute more fully.

An interesting intellectual exercise for you. Some intellectual historians think that FDR modified Liberalism (with the New Deal) as much as Reagan modified conservatism (by embracing Libertarianism). If you're going to enter these discussions, you should know this stuff. You should know the difference between say Keynes (who believed in markets and private property) and Marx (who did not). Rather than letting your thought be controlled by men like Rush Limbaugh, who don't teach the nuances of intellectual history, I very respectfully and humbly suggest that you do more historical research.

You started out with bullshit and built your foundation from there. That is called "propaganda" not an "improvement. I know leftist think like you do because you are the ones that are ill-informed and brainwashed.

You are also incredibly arrogant. Another hallmark of the left. You smear your enemies with distortions and lies, another hallmark. I'm not Limbaugh, didn't bring him up and for you to ASSUME that's where I get my conservative ideals is stupid. I suggest you get your head out of your ass.

An intellectual exercise for me? You condescending arrogant asshole! You don't even know what conservativism is and you want to lecture people from up high?

But thanks for proving the conservatives being right about liberals. You probably thought you were saying something smart, instead you came off like a jackass. People don't need Rush for that. But they do listen in and say "yeah, I know the type". You and your type made Rush Limbaugh easy money filthy rich.

 

[Iceweasel]

Liberals have consistently fought for the right of people to be racists and bigots, which is why the ACLU was always willing to go to court to defend the rights of the KKK to hold protests, and why they still speak up in defense of Westboro Baptist Church.

They're defending free speech. Without Constitutional Protections, African Americans and minorities would be far worse off.

Everyone would be worse off, Einstein.

I have a deeply Libertarian friend who happens to be a criminal attorney. He believes that Government should not be able to incarcerate citizens without due process. He believes in the Rights that all citizens are accorded by our legal system, and he thinks that maintaining those Rights is crucial to a free society. He doesn't want the US to become like the Soviet Union where people are jailed for their political beliefs. He believes in the Fifth Amendment of the US Constitution as much as the ACLU believes in the First Amendment. Does this mean - per your ACLU logic - that my friend wants criminals to go free? Answer: no, because the biggest crime of all is a world where Government doesn't give citizens legal rights. (Psst: you can't only defend the Constitution when it produces outcomes you agree with. This is what Conservatives tend to do)

That sounded like a giant fart. Was there a point there?

(I remember when Reagan ignored the Constitution by selling weapons to Iran. Then Bush ignored the Constitution with his illegal wiretapping program, subsequently brought within FISA. It made me realize that Republicans are typically willing to destroy the Constitution when the cause, in their opinion, is just. The ACLU, on the other hand, believes that defending our Constitutional protections is the most just cause of all. Anyway, you are proving my point.)

You didn't mention Obama in your diatribe so I guess sometimes it's OK with you. But it's the left that typically refers to the Constitution as a living breathing document while the right is typically stricter in the reading, the 2nd Amendment is a classic example. So I'd have to day you're full of shit.
I'll give you a D- on your effort, it was too transparent. Try again.