Arizona execution goes terribly wrong

[Quantum Windbag]

Well come back after your doctor gives you your anti-Crazy pills for this week, and I'll explain it to you.

I already understand cognitive dissonance, it is the ability for human beings to hold two conflicting opinions at the same time. Fortunately, I outgrew it, which is why I don't trust the government enough to let them kill people, or to give them power over medical decisions.

I'm sure after you get the red ones, you are able to dissonance anything.

Logical consistancy. The government already runs health care for one third of our citizens. In other countries, they do the same. It's a collaborative process that included health care professionals. So, no, I don't worry about the "government" running health care.

If you are, no doubt, you can line your hat with tin-foil and take care of the problem.

And they do such a wonderful job that people are dying waiting for an appointment.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I have a better idea...America stops with the barbaric, premeditated, cold-blooded killing of human beings in death chambers...and joins the countries of the world that have become civilised and abolished such barbaric penalties.

Those countries don't have a 2nd Amendment. Willing to give it up in order to abolish the death penalty?

If I were an American, and the Constitution told me to wash my hair in sump oil...I would not do it.
The death penalty can be abolished without touching the Constitution.

New Mexico state did it;

Death Penalty Abolished in New Mexico--Governor Says Repeal Will Make the State Safer | Death Penalty Information Center

Death Penalty Abolished in New Mexico--Governor Says Repeal Will Make the State Safer

Governor Bill Richardson signed the bill abolishing the death penalty in New Mexico on March 18. New Mexico now becomes the 15th state to abandon capital punishment and the 3rd in the last 2 years, following recent actions in New Jersey and New York in 2007.

The new law substitutes the punishment of life without parole for the death penalty in future cases. In a statement, Gov. Richardson cited the 130 inmates freed from death row since 1973 and added, "The sad truth is the wrong person can still be convicted in this day and age, and in cases where that conviction carries with it the ultimate sanction, we must have ultimate confidence, I would say certitude, that the system is without flaw or prejudice. Unfortunately, this is demonstrably not the case."

Many family members of murder victims applauded the repeal: “This is recognition of the false promise that the death penalty offered, and a realization of how murder victims’ family members’ needs can truly be served,” said Lorry Post, Executive Director of Murder Victims’ Families for Reconciliation (MVFR). Cathy Ansheles of Santa Fe and a member of MVFR, reacted to the bill’s passage, “It’s a great relief to know that families will no longer be put through the turmoil of the death penalty. Finally, resources can be directed to where they will really do the most good.”

#####

No Harvard degree needed for this one either.

That is the 10th Amendment at work.

Unfortunately, it doesn't stop the federal government from killing people.

 

[bripat9643]

So that makes us better than him, how?

No, it just makes him dead, which is what he deserved.

 

[Noomi]

Japan has it nearly impossible to own a firearm. And consequently no death penalty. Nor more importantly, no huge problem with violent crime either.

2011-2014, number of gun-related murders in Japan: 47. Number in the US: 9,369

Japan vs United States Crime Stats Compared

Americans would be outraged if anyone dared to take their precious shiny objects away.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Point you missed was countries without a death penalty don't have a lot of crazy people with guns running amok. We do, so occasionally it's in society's best interest to execute them. If we didn't have the 2nd and lots of guns, some of which end up in bad people's hands to do bad things, society would be much safer and we wouldn't need a death penalty to act as a deterrent.

Um... no, don't think so. Every country that implemented gun control, has seen a direct increase in gun crime.

Guns are not so hard to make. Criminal would still get them, even without a 2nd amendment right.

Japan has it nearly impossible to own a firearm. And consequently no death penalty. Nor more importantly, no huge problem with violent crime either.

2011-2014, number of gun-related murders in Japan: 47. Number in the US: 9,369

Japan vs United States Crime Stats Compared

Virtually no guns.


What does that mean, exactly? If the gun control laws actually worked there wouldn't be any guns in Japan, yet there are over 400,000 registered guns in Japan. Maybe you should rethink your silly argument given that you didn't base it on facts.

 

[Noomi]

So that makes us better than him, how?

No, it just makes him dead, which is what he deserved.

Killing someone who killed makes you better, how?

 

[Kondor3]

So that makes us better than him, how?

No, it just makes him dead, which is what he deserved.

Killing someone who killed makes you better, how?

Go back and read it again.

That's not what he said.

 

[bripat9643]

Point you missed was countries without a death penalty don't have a lot of crazy people with guns running amok. We do, so occasionally it's in society's best interest to execute them. If we didn't have the 2nd and lots of guns, some of which end up in bad people's hands to do bad things, society would be much safer and we wouldn't need a death penalty to act as a deterrent.

Um... no, don't think so. Every country that implemented gun control, has seen a direct increase in gun crime.

Guns are not so hard to make. Criminal would still get them, even without a 2nd amendment right.

Japan has it nearly impossible to own a firearm. And consequently no death penalty. Nor more importantly, no huge problem with violent crime either.

2011-2014, number of gun-related murders in Japan: 47. Number in the US: 9,369

Japan vs United States Crime Stats Compared

In Jamaica it's also illegal to own a firearm. Their murder rate is 39.3 per 100,000 people. Japan's is 0.3. For the US it's 4.8.

The murder rate in Mexico is 21.5 per 100,000 people. Mexican citizens and legal residents may purchase new non-military firearms for self-protection or hunting only after receiving approval of a petition to the Defense Ministry, which performs extensive background checks. The allowed weapons are restricted to relatively small calibers and may only be purchased legally from the Defense Ministry.

The murder rate in South Africa is 31.0 per 100,000 people. In South Africa, the Firearms Control Act 60 of 2000 regulates the ownership of firearms by civilians. Ownership of a firearm is conditional on a competency test and several other factors, including background checking of the applicant, inspection of an owner's premises, and licensing of the weapon by the police introduced in July 2004.

The murder rate in Brazil is 25.2 per 100,000 people. All firearms in Brazil are required to be registered within the state. The minimum age for ownership is 25,[6] and it is generally illegal to carry a gun outside a residence.[7]

Your theory doesn't seem to be the explanation.

 

[Noomi]

No, it just makes him dead, which is what he deserved.

Killing someone who killed makes you better, how?

Go back and read it again.

That's not what he said.

I believe he did.

 

[bianco]

Those countries don't have a 2nd Amendment. Willing to give it up in order to abolish the death penalty?

If I were an American, and the Constitution told me to wash my hair in sump oil...I would not do it.
The death penalty can be abolished without touching the Constitution.

New Mexico state did it;

Death Penalty Abolished in New Mexico--Governor Says Repeal Will Make the State Safer | Death Penalty Information Center

Death Penalty Abolished in New Mexico--Governor Says Repeal Will Make the State Safer

Governor Bill Richardson signed the bill abolishing the death penalty in New Mexico on March 18. New Mexico now becomes the 15th state to abandon capital punishment and the 3rd in the last 2 years, following recent actions in New Jersey and New York in 2007.

The new law substitutes the punishment of life without parole for the death penalty in future cases. In a statement, Gov. Richardson cited the 130 inmates freed from death row since 1973 and added, "The sad truth is the wrong person can still be convicted in this day and age, and in cases where that conviction carries with it the ultimate sanction, we must have ultimate confidence, I would say certitude, that the system is without flaw or prejudice. Unfortunately, this is demonstrably not the case."

Many family members of murder victims applauded the repeal: “This is recognition of the false promise that the death penalty offered, and a realization of how murder victims’ family members’ needs can truly be served,” said Lorry Post, Executive Director of Murder Victims’ Families for Reconciliation (MVFR). Cathy Ansheles of Santa Fe and a member of MVFR, reacted to the bill’s passage, “It’s a great relief to know that families will no longer be put through the turmoil of the death penalty. Finally, resources can be directed to where they will really do the most good.”

#####

No Harvard degree needed for this one either.

That is the 10th Amendment at work.

Unfortunately, it doesn't stop the federal government from killing people.

If all the states abolished death chambers and their killing of human beings in them...the federal govt would fold.

 

[bianco]

Yes, let's be like communist China...execution-homicide thousands of human beings in death chambers every 52 weeks. "Kill, kill"!...

"All hands, action stations... stand-by to repel Drama Queens"

Well that's what communist China is doing.

They are [or were until recently] making cosmetics out of the body tissue of execution-slaughtered prisoners.

The beauty products from the skin of executed Chinese prisoners | Science | The Guardian

The beauty products from the skin of executed Chinese prisoners

A Chinese cosmetics company is using skin harvested from the corpses of executed convicts to develop beauty products for sale in Europe, an investigation by the Guardian has discovered.

Agents for the firm have told would-be customers it is developing collagen for lip and wrinkle treatments from skin taken from prisoners after they have been shot. The agents say some of the company's products have been exported to the UK, and that the use of skin from condemned convicts is "traditional" and nothing to "make such a big fuss about".

#####

America could do that too, be just like communist China, start a new manufacturing industry...execution-homicide hundreds or thousands of convicteds each year in death chambers [indoor or outdoor] and make cosmetics out of them..."jobs, jobs, jobs".

 

[Noomi]

^I feel like vomiting.

 

[Kondor3]

...America could do that too, be just like communist China, start a new manufacturing industry...

Eeeeeeewwwww !!!

I can just see the lip gloss now...

Murderer Muave...

Rapist Rouge...

Thievery Teal...

...and so on.

Makes the Nazis look like pikers by comparison.

Doesn't change the efficiency of the Chinese capital punishment methodology, however...

 

[JoeB131]

Point you missed was countries without a death penalty don't have a lot of crazy people with guns running amok. We do, so occasionally it's in society's best interest to execute them. If we didn't have the 2nd and lots of guns, some of which end up in bad people's hands to do bad things, society would be much safer and we wouldn't need a death penalty to act as a deterrent.

Um... no, don't think so. Every country that implemented gun control, has seen a direct increase in gun crime.

Guns are not so hard to make. Criminal would still get them, even without a 2nd amendment right.

Japan has it nearly impossible to own a firearm. And consequently no death penalty. Nor more importantly, no huge problem with violent crime either.

2011-2014, number of gun-related murders in Japan: 47. Number in the US: 9,369

Japan vs United States Crime Stats Compared

All well stated, but to be fair, Japan does have a Death Penalty. they executed 8 people in 2013. Only one so far in 2014.

 

[JoeB131]

[

And they do such a wonderful job that people are dying waiting for an appointment.

You mean as opposed to private companies that call a child's cancer a "pre-existing condition", or deny a teenager a liver transplant because it's "experimental".

Sorry, I'll still go with the government running it. You can keep being afraid the government is hiding in your closet.

 

[Politico]

Yeah the government is the answer. When the ACA fully kicks in breathing will be a pre-existing condition.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Except he was not innocent. Not only was he a known, and self proclaimed gang member, he also made up a completely fabricated story to claim the $10K reward for information on the murdered girl.

There was nothing 'innocent' about the man. Quite frankly, he deserves life in prison, just on the basis of trying to use a murdered girl for his own profit.

Neither of those offenses merited being sentenced to death. Or going to prison for life. Yeah, it was kind of stupid for him to do, but the thing took on a life of its own when cops and prosecutors in DuPage just couldn't admit when they made a mistake.

[
Here's the difference between me and you.

I'm not a piss-ignorant bible thumper? Yes, we've already established that.

[
You are a hypocrite. You say it is better to never exact punishment, than to accidentally punish the wrong person.

Yes, that's a standard principle of our law enforcement. It's better than a 100 guilty men go free than an innocent man go to prison.

[
Yet you would have no problem putting someone in prison for 50 years, even if they were innocent.

We know when I say "what do we do with murderers then?" You say life in prison. And what if that person is innocent? Well that's ok.

Yes, at that point, he's got 50 years to prove his innocence. After you've executed him, you can't fix the problem. That's the whole point.

[
My view is, we should spend more time making the legal system as accurate as possible, and less time denying justice and punishment, in the name of "well it could be the wrong man".

Um, yeah. right. frankly, here's the thing. Our Justice system is pretty much a reflection of our economic inequality, dude. When was the last time we executed a rich person? If everyone could afford O.J.'s Dream Team, no one would go to prison.

[
First, I'm not talking about zapping every single person who is accused of murder. I'm not. I'm talking about people like Woods. 3 different people saw him shoot and kill his victims. The police caught him with the gun in his hand.

There is absolutely no possible way that this guy didn't murder those people.

But here's the thing. Witnesses get it wrong. There have been many cases where people have been sentenced to death on the word of eyewitnesses who have later been exonerated by DNA.

[
That guy should have been given a shovel as he left the court room, and had him start digging his own grave, the same day.

Ah, the blood lust of the Bible Thumper. Man, why are you guys so angry all the time?

[
Second, instead of making sure no criminal actually pays for his own crime, how about we make sure prosecutors and witness DO pay for their crime?

Here's a simple thought. If a prosecutor knowingly tries to convict a man they know is innocent, by concealing evidence, or witness statements, how about we have the prosecutor serve the time he was trying to make the innocent man serve?

How do you determine "knowingly tries". The guys who tried to railroad Cruz STILL insist up and down that they had the right guy. They put them in front of a Jury here in Dupage, and the jury acquitted the lot of them, and then had drinks with the accused after the trial.

[
How about witnesses that intentionally lie in order to frame an innocent person, be given the sentence the other person would have served?

Again, how do you determine that. Most of these witnesses didn't intentionally lie, they just made mistakes. They were given a photo or real lineup, and picked out the scariest guy in a lineup with five cops and one crook.

[
Think that my clean up injustice? Yeah, I bet. You won't have to worry so much about the wrong guy being convicted nearly as much.

Nope, it will just make everyone less interested in helping out. Frankly, if I knew I might be prosecuted if some slick lawyer got Neighbor Bob off for burying his wife in the backyard, and I was the one who dropped a dime on him, I wouldn't report him at that point. I could get prison for being a witness? That's batshit insane.

It's hard enough to get people to be witnesses as it is, as they fear retaliation and most people don't want to get other people in trouble.

[
But again, I know you people. You don't give a crap about innocent people. You just want to pretend you have some moral high ground, by protecting those who break the law. That's all there is too it. That's why you don't focus on punishing false witnessing, or corrupt prosecutors. No no, your big thing is "we can't punish murderers". Sick.

I'm all for punishing the murderers. I'm just not for punishing them in such a way you can't correct a mistake.

 

[JoeB131]

Yeah the government is the answer. When the ACA fully kicks in breathing will be a pre-existing condition.

That's nice, but what do you base that on?

Fact is, the people the government already deal with are the people that big insurance wouldn't touch.

 

[Andylusion]

Yeah the government is the answer. When the ACA fully kicks in breathing will be a pre-existing condition.

That's nice, but what do you base that on?

Fact is, the people the government already deal with are the people that big insurance wouldn't touch.

NHS patients refused treatment unless they change their lifestyles | Mail Online

Too fat for surgery: Patients refused treatment unless they change their lifestyles

NHS refuses 'undeserving' patients vital treatment in move branded 'discriminatory'
Hip and knee replacements and even IVF among treatments being 'rationed'
Health Service trusts insist restrictions are in people's 'best interests'

Now to leftists, this is just a fluke.

To Capitalists, this is a logical, and expected outcome of socialized care.

When the government is in charge, there is static amount of money available.

If you have limited funds, and you can only treat a specific number of people, and there are more people than money for treatment.... what do you do?

Answer? You start treating the people who will benefit the most.

If two people show up, and one is 80, and one is 40, and both need heart surgery, with limited funds, who gets the surgery? The 40 year old. He'll benefit with possibly 40 more years of life. The 80 year old, might not even make to next month, WITH the surgery.

If two people come in and one is 400 lbs, and the other is 160 lbs, and both need heart surgery, who gets the surgery? The average weight guy. The other one might get the surgery, and still die from his obesity next week.

Now the typical leftist will immediately go "that's so wrong! Doctors should choose who get's treated!"

Doctors back denial of treatment for smokers and the obese | Society | The Observer

A majority of doctors support measures to deny treatment to smokers and the obese, according to a survey that has sparked a row over the NHS's growing use of "lifestyle rationing".

In any situation where there is government paid for health care, there is going to be limited funds. If there is limited funds, everyone, including doctors, are going to want to exclude people from care.

It's just natural. If you only have the money for 3 surgeries a day, you want the people who are going to benefit most, getting those surgeries.

The alternative is the capitalist system. This is where absolutely anyone, can get any treatment they need..... because.... they are paying for it.

This is why a lady in Canada who can't walk, because her knees need surgery, can wait 6 years in suffering, while the same girl in America would have the surgery done in 2 weeks.

See this is how it works. In Canada, with limited funds, do you treat the girl that can't walk, or the girl that is going to die of cancer? You can't treat both, because the money isn't there.

As much as leftists talk about compassion, they really have none. If their heads were not shoved so far up their ideology, they would see that the most compassionate system, is the Capitalist system which provides the most good, to the most people.

 

[Andylusion]

Neither of those offenses merited being sentenced to death. Or going to prison for life. Yeah, it was kind of stupid for him to do, but the thing took on a life of its own when cops and prosecutors in DuPage just couldn't admit when they made a mistake.

A gang member, who already had a rap sheet, intentionally lied about a murder case, leading police on a wild goose chase, in order to get money, and the plan backfired, all while toying with the victims families, thinking they could find their missing girl.

And here you are making excuses for him. Yet another criminal loving leftist. If I were you, I wouldn't be able to look in the mirror without barfing all over myself. Sick. Just sick.

I'm not a piss-ignorant bible thumper? Yes, we've already established that.

Coming from someone who supports criminals and murderers, your insults mean nothing. You are a scum bag. Plain and simple.

Yes, that's a standard principle of our law enforcement. It's better than a 100 guilty men go free than an innocent man go to prison.

Then open the prisons up. This is why good upstanding people like us, need to absolutely defeat, and render irrelevant scum like you, for the good of all society.

Um, yeah. right. frankly, here's the thing. Our Justice system is pretty much a reflection of our economic inequality, dude. When was the last time we executed a rich person? If everyone could afford O.J.'s Dream Team, no one would go to prison.

Jeffery Skilling. Jordan Belfort. Allen Stanford. Michael Milken. Alfred Taubman. Bernie Madoff.

No, you are full of crap. Full of excuses. You are terrible scummy person.

But here's the thing. Witnesses get it wrong. There have been many cases where people have been sentenced to death on the word of eyewitnesses who have later been exonerated by DNA.

Already covered that.

Ah, the blood lust of the Bible Thumper. Man, why are you guys so angry all the time?

Says that guy who allows murderers to murder again. I have not allowed one single murderer, by my policy positions, to kill a single innocent person. *YOU* are the one with blood on your head. *YOU* have the deaths of innocents on your hands. *YOU* are the murder supporter. Not me. I'd have justice done.

Angry? Yes, I am angry about this, and rightfully so. I am just, and right, to be angry about *YOU* allowing innocent people to die at the hands of murderers. Yes, AND I SHOULD BE. *YOU* cause the death of innocent people. We should be mad about injustice. The fact you don't care, just makes you a dog.

How do you determine "knowingly tries". The guys who tried to railroad Cruz STILL insist up and down that they had the right guy. They put them in front of a Jury here in Dupage, and the jury acquitted the lot of them, and then had drinks with the accused after the trial.

Um.... dumb question from the murderer supporter? If they intentionally concealed evidence... if they intentionally hid a confession... that would be filed under "knowingly tries".

Again, how do you determine that. Most of these witnesses didn't intentionally lie, they just made mistakes. They were given a photo or real lineup, and picked out the scariest guy in a lineup with five cops and one crook.

Oh shut up. People are tried for perjury all the time. Endless excuses from you murderer supporters. Don't care about the victims, no no, "oh dear how can they determine if someone lied", as if it's never been done before. Just more lame excuses from people who support innocent being murdered. Just shut up. You have no credibility. Go hang out with your gangster friends you love so much.