Are you born gay?

[glockmail]

I think the "why" someone is gay is completely irrelevant to the discussion on whether its right or not. It doesnt matter if you are born with the urges or its a choice. .....

I disagree, as it goes to the crux of the issue, can they being treated differently under US laws? The Declaration of Independence states that all men are created equal, therefore if someone is born with a trait, then that trait should have no bearing on their rights. But if someone chooses to have a trait, then that person can legally be treated differently.

Example of chosen traits are a criminal (may be incarcerated) or a medical doctor (may be able to prescribe narcotics).

 

[glockmail]

.....The strongest evidence currently available for homosexuality as a choice vs. born that way is a new study in pre-natal hormone levels. Apparantly, a small percentage of pregnancies feature a hormonal imbalance while the baby is still in development. Children born after these hormonal imbalances tend to behave a bit contrary to their gender (affeminate men, butch women) and are far more likely to engage in homosexual behavior than those without this imbalance......

This is a very plausible explanation. To be consistent with conservative philosophy and aligning as closely as possible to the ideals of this great nation, I must rephrase the question that started this thread:

Are You Created Gay?

This is an important distinction, as when God sparks life, which of course is upon conception, the human being is equal in the law to all others. But subtle environmental factors can then begin to make significant changes to God’s plan.

Once earthly factors come into play that legal equality that I referred to earlier can change.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

that's pure speculation. It's no more a recessive trait than serial killers...of course, I'm speculating, too.

Of course. Everything regarding the whole gay thing is speculation, more or less.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

Researchers have searched for a long time for a "gay gene" and so far have not found one.

But until the entire genome is mapped, there's no way to know fo sure. Certainly a "gay" gene being recessive would explain how it continues to exist despite gays not reproducing, which I thought was the initial point of your post.

 

[Jennifer.Bush]

1.

That possibility was addressed in post 1. “If that were true then homosexuality could never have existed before about 35 years ago.”

but they have existed since the start of lif

yes, like drugs, crime, and fattening foods. However there are no huge influential lobby groups to support these other poor choices.

but i wouldn't say being gay is a choice though

4I’ve not heard that term before.

it's pretty much "striaght" men who have gay sex

 

[Hobbit]

This is a very plausible explanation. To be consistent with conservative philosophy and aligning as closely as possible to the ideals of this great nation, I must rephrase the question that started this thread:

Are You Created Gay?

This is an important distinction, as when God sparks life, which of course is upon conception, the human being is equal in the law to all others. But subtle environmental factors can then begin to make significant changes to God’s plan.

Once earthly factors come into play that legal equality that I referred to earlier can change.

I'm saying it's possible.

I disagree, as it goes to the crux of the issue, can they being treated differently under US laws? The Declaration of Independence states that all men are created equal, therefore if someone is born with a trait, then that trait should have no bearing on their rights. But if someone chooses to have a trait, then that person can legally be treated differently.

Example of chosen traits are a criminal (may be incarcerated) or a medical doctor (may be able to prescribe narcotics).

No, it's not important, because being born with certain desires is not the same as acting on those impulses. Kleptomania is a perfectly natural personality disorder, yet we still imprison them when they steal. Psychopaths are born with a desire to kill others, but they're still imprisoned. Part of the letter of the law is curbing the desires of others when those desires are harmful to society as a whole. As it stands, homosexuality is fully legal. It's just not endorsed, and I see no reason to start now.

The crux of the argument is this, "Are homosexuals being treated equally?" The answer is that of course they are. A homosexual enjoys all the same rights as any other human being as guaranteed by the constitution. There is no right to get married, and even heterosexual couples can have their marriage liscences rejected. A marriage, as far as the government is concerned, is merely a consolidated legal contract consisting of several other legal procudures, such as inheritance and power of attorney, with the only exclusive procedure being the joint filing of the a federal income tax return, which isn't really that big of a deal. Some companies only grant health benefits to spouses, but those are private businesses, and it is their right to dispense health care as they see fit, whether it's PC or not. Take it up with them.

 

[Kagom]

FYI my marriage reception was at a Masonic Lodge, of which my father-in-law was, and still is a member. I assure you he is neither gay nor a fruitcake.

I could've swore the Freemasons were the anti-thesis to Christians, or so the debate goes. I only see smoke and mirrors on that issue

Everyone already knows my belief on the subject, so I'm sure I need not regurgitate it.

 

[glockmail]

1. but they have existed since the start of lif
but i wouldn't say being gay is a choice though
....

Are you trying to make my point or your own, Jen? BTW, you look cute with your sister in these outfits!

 

[Avatar4321]

I disagree, as it goes to the crux of the issue, can they being treated differently under US laws? The Declaration of Independence states that all men are created equal, therefore if someone is born with a trait, then that trait should have no bearing on their rights. But if someone chooses to have a trait, then that person can legally be treated differently.

Example of chosen traits are a criminal (may be incarcerated) or a medical doctor (may be able to prescribe narcotics).

We are talking about behavioral traits, not immutable traits. Thats exactly my point. people are born with traitsts that make the more partial to intolerance and hate. Some are born with traits making them more prone to alcoholism, such as being Irish, that doesnt excuse any actions they take because human nature also dictates that we can control our behaviors despite our nature.

 

[Jennifer.Bush]

Are you trying to make my point or your own, Jen? BTW, you look cute with your sister in these outfits!

 

[glockmail]

Can you and Barb please take turns? :whip3: Just don't leave any marks!

 

[dilloduck]

1. but they have existed since the start of lif
but i wouldn't say being gay is a choice though
it's pretty much "striaght" men who have gay sex

it's pretty much "striaght" men who have gay sex

:rotflmao: :rotflmao:

 

[mattskramer]

I disagree, as it goes to the crux of the issue, can they being treated differently under US laws? The Declaration of Independence states that all men are created equal, therefore if someone is born with a trait, then that trait should have no bearing on their rights. But if someone chooses to have a trait, then that person can legally be treated differently.

Example of chosen traits are a criminal (may be incarcerated) or a medical doctor (may be able to prescribe narcotics).

I find the issue of nature vs. nurture to be irrelevant in the discussion of homosexuality too. What is your position on government employment and discrimination of people of different races or religions? In hiring people, the government is prohibited from hiring people based on race (a genetic condition) or religion (a choice).

 

[dilloduck]

I find the issue of nature vs. nurture to be irrelevant in the discussion of homosexuality too. What is your position on government employment and discrimination of people of different races or religions? In hiring people, the government is prohibited from hiring people based on race (a genetic condition) or religion (a choice).

It's real simple MK----If it is proved that homosexuals are born that way, they feel like they are not responsible for thier behavior and deserve special treatment.

 

[dmp]

In hiring people, the government is prohibited from hiring people based on race (a genetic condition) or religion (a choice).

That's the best argument from your side I've heard. If we discriminate against 'discrimination' based on ANOTHER choice, why not homosexuality?

I suppose it's a line-thing. We have to draw lines. People's sexual activity is on the side of the line we should NOT protect.

 

[Nuc]

I find the issue of nature vs. nurture to be irrelevant in the discussion of homosexuality too. What is your position on government employment and discrimination of people of different races or religions? In hiring people, the government is prohibited from hiring people based on race (a genetic condition) or religion (a choice).

Religion can be a choice, but the fact is that most people "choose" the religion they were born into.

:hail:

Convenient that so many of us are born into the right religion, isn't it?

 

[glockmail]

I find the issue of nature vs. nurture to be irrelevant in the discussion of homosexuality too. What is your position on government employment and discrimination of people of different races or religions? In hiring people, the government is prohibited from hiring people based on race (a genetic condition) or religion (a choice).

Religion is a learned behavior that has special protection.

 

[OCA]

The factual evidence is clear for anyone with the balls to call a spade a spade, Queer is by choice and not by birth.

Stop with the muddying of the facts with recessive gene this and womb event that, many decades and billions poured into research to find the elusive queer gene and as of this moment nothing, nada. Its a choice just like you choose to pierce your clit and dye your hair pink, nothing less nothing more and people need to be held accountable for this reckless choice and not have special laws created for them.

 

[dilloduck]

The factual evidence is clear for anyone with the balls to call a spade a spade, Queer is by choice and not by birth.

Stop with the muddying of the facts with recessive gene this and womb event that, many decades and billions poured into research to find the elusive queer gene and as of this moment nothing, nada. Its a choice just like you choose to pierce your clit and dye your hair pink, nothing less nothing more and people need to be held accountable for this reckless choice and not have special laws created for them.

Did you choose what tastes good to you?

 

[OCA]

Did you choose what tastes good to you?

Speaking of muddying the argument and over the top obfuscation. Ever heard of taste buds? Never heard of sexual orientation buds, probably because they don't exist.