Are We Really a Christian Nation ?

[sixgunwolf]

I agree with sky Dancer. We already see a deep infiltration of Christian thieology in public affairs i.e. " In God we trust"...." one nation under God."..I a'm an American who has no trust in any God nor do I believe a Free nation should be govern under the pretext of a particular form of superstition.

 

[jillian]

We should be striving to be a Christian nation and planet.
Outlook...not so good.

why would i want to do that?

(no offense intended)

 

[Two Thumbs]

We should be striving to be a Christian nation and planet.
Outlook...not so good.

why would i want to do that?

(no offense intended)

We got chips and plenty of wine.

 

[jillian]

We should be striving to be a Christian nation and planet.
Outlook...not so good.

why would i want to do that?

(no offense intended)

We got chips and plenty of wine.

yeah, but where'd ya get the idea, bubbalah?

 

[Two Thumbs]

We should be striving to be a Christian nation and planet.
Outlook...not so good.

why would i want to do that?

(no offense intended)

I really should try to be serious.

ok

here goes.


Take the teachings of Christ;
The Golden Rule
Turn the other cheek
live by the sword, die by the sword
etc, etc...

If we actually lived by those. We would have WAY fewer wars. Lots more charity. And people would understand that dying by the sword is not literal death, but death of the inner person. Imagine you stabbing someone and whatching them die, knowing you have to do it again or die yourself.

PTS comes to mind.

 

[FuelRod]

We should be striving to be a Christian nation and planet.
Outlook...not so good.

why would i want to do that?

(no offense intended)

The verse I put up earlier...Jesus breaking down the law to two things: Love God and Love People. Not a bad world.
But as far as miracles go my favorite was the turning water into wine.

 

[jillian]

We should be striving to be a Christian nation and planet.
Outlook...not so good.

why would i want to do that?

(no offense intended)

I really should try to be serious.

ok

here goes.


Take the teachings of Christ;
The Golden Rule
Turn the other cheek
live by the sword, die by the sword
etc, etc...

If we actually lived by those. We would have WAY fewer wars. Lots more charity. And people would understand that dying by the sword is not literal death, but death of the inner person. Imagine you stabbing someone and whatching them die, knowing you have to do it again or die yourself.

PTS comes to mind.

Oh... I think a lot of what Jesus said was fine. It's what people have done with it that bugs me.

One of my favorite comedy routines is one done by George Carlin, where he boils the ten commandments down to one mandate... do unto others as you would have them do unto you. the world would be a better place if we all did that. But I don't need to be a Christian to be a decent human being.

 

[Immanuel]

You did not answer my question. Do you think I should not participate in threads which discuss Christianity because you don't like my views?

My views push your buttons, but YOU are responsible for your own buttons.

Um, perhaps, you will point to the post that you asked that question of me? That question was not in any post you addressed to me.

Actually, I am happy to have you participate, but I am frustrated with your consistent bashing of Christians and then your incessant whining when Christians stand up to the abuse you dish out.

Immie

I'm sorry you're frustrated. Perhaps, you should consider why you require me to like or approve of all people who call themselves 'Christian', even the ones who do harm in the name of their God.

So, are you going to just ignore the fact that you were being dishonest when you claimed to have asked me that question?

Immie

 

[Sky Dancer]

Um, perhaps, you will point to the post that you asked that question of me? That question was not in any post you addressed to me.

Actually, I am happy to have you participate, but I am frustrated with your consistent bashing of Christians and then your incessant whining when Christians stand up to the abuse you dish out.

Immie

I'm sorry you're frustrated. Perhaps, you should consider why you require me to like or approve of all people who call themselves 'Christian', even the ones who do harm in the name of their God.

So, are you going to just ignore the fact that you were being dishonest when you claimed to have asked me that question?

Immie

I don't know what you mean. I ask you questions all the time. Sometimes you answer and sometimes you don't.

Do you expect me to like all Christians, even the ones that do harm in the name of your God?

 

[Immanuel]

I'm sorry you're frustrated. Perhaps, you should consider why you require me to like or approve of all people who call themselves 'Christian', even the ones who do harm in the name of their God.

So, are you going to just ignore the fact that you were being dishonest when you claimed to have asked me that question?

Immie

I don't know what you mean. I ask you questions all the time. Sometimes you answer and sometimes you don't.

Do you expect me to like all Christians, even the ones that do harm in the name of your God?

You were dishonest when you claimed to have asked me that question. You have never asked me that question.

Like all Christians? No. But you go beyond dislike and you attack all Christians. I expect better from you. I would expect you to attack a person that attacks all homosexuals or all Buddhists, yet you are the aggressor in most every instance on this board while you pretend to be the victim.

And even worse you consistently deliberately rephrase something a person says in an attempt to make them out to hate gays or lesbians. That makes you dishonest and hate-filled. To my knowledge, those are not the qualities of a Buddhist.

Immie

 

[Sky Dancer]

So, are you going to just ignore the fact that you were being dishonest when you claimed to have asked me that question?

Immie

I don't know what you mean. I ask you questions all the time. Sometimes you answer and sometimes you don't.

Do you expect me to like all Christians, even the ones that do harm in the name of your God?

You were dishonest when you claimed to have asked me that question. You have never asked me that question.

Like all Christians? No. But you go beyond dislike and you attack all Christians. I expect better from you. I would expect you to attack a person that attacks all homosexuals or all Buddhists, yet you are the aggressor in most every instance on this board while you pretend to be the victim.

And even worse you consistently deliberately rephrase something a person says in an attempt to make them out to hate gays or lesbians. That makes you dishonest and hate-filled. To my knowledge, those are not the qualities of a Buddhist.

Immie

First of all, I do not say anything like ALL CHRISTIANS are like this. I point out what the FRC says and does. I point what Scott Lively says and does.

I do not tell you that you are a bad Christian or hate filled when you are angry. I see your humanity.

You don't like me right now. I accept that. I say things that are provocative. I speak the truth about what hurts and angers me.

Did I ever say I am a great buddhist? I don't think so. I am a human being. One that you currently judge harshly.

I suppose this means we aren't friends anymore.

I'm sorry for that.

Sky

 

[Immanuel]

I don't know what you mean. I ask you questions all the time. Sometimes you answer and sometimes you don't.

Do you expect me to like all Christians, even the ones that do harm in the name of your God?

You were dishonest when you claimed to have asked me that question. You have never asked me that question.

Like all Christians? No. But you go beyond dislike and you attack all Christians. I expect better from you. I would expect you to attack a person that attacks all homosexuals or all Buddhists, yet you are the aggressor in most every instance on this board while you pretend to be the victim.

And even worse you consistently deliberately rephrase something a person says in an attempt to make them out to hate gays or lesbians. That makes you dishonest and hate-filled. To my knowledge, those are not the qualities of a Buddhist.

Immie

First of all, I do not say anything like ALL CHRISTIANS are like this. I point out what the FRC says and does. I point what Scott Lively says and does.

I do not tell you that you are a bad Christian or hate filled when you are angry. I see your humanity.

You don't like me right now. I accept that. I say things that are provocative. I speak the truth about what hurts and angers me.

Did I ever say I am a great buddhist? I don't think so. I am a human being. One that you currently judge harshly.

I suppose this means we aren't friends anymore.

I'm sorry for that.

Sky

There you go again. I never said I don't like you right now.

No, you speak words that hurt and you do so deliberately. That is what is bugging me right now. You are deliberately striking out at good people. I think you have an ingrown resentment of Christians. Someone who says they are Christian has hurt you deeply so you are seeking revenge at Christ and Christians. Maybe it is that you are conflicted by your disavowing Christ and acceptance of Buddhism. Maybe you were raised a "good Catholic" and you feel that you have betrayed your family and friends. I don't know what your problem is, but, I think you need help. Because there is absolutely no reason for you to be this way consistently.

It is time someone shook you up and helped you to open your eyes. I don't know a whole hell of a lot about Buddhism, but I do understand this. Hatred of others is not part of the Buddhist way.

And please don't try to tell me you don't feel hatred. Every word you post, reeks of it.

Immie

 

[Sky Dancer]

You were dishonest when you claimed to have asked me that question. You have never asked me that question.

Like all Christians? No. But you go beyond dislike and you attack all Christians. I expect better from you. I would expect you to attack a person that attacks all homosexuals or all Buddhists, yet you are the aggressor in most every instance on this board while you pretend to be the victim.

And even worse you consistently deliberately rephrase something a person says in an attempt to make them out to hate gays or lesbians. That makes you dishonest and hate-filled. To my knowledge, those are not the qualities of a Buddhist.

Immie

First of all, I do not say anything like ALL CHRISTIANS are like this. I point out what the FRC says and does. I point what Scott Lively says and does.

I do not tell you that you are a bad Christian or hate filled when you are angry. I see your humanity.

You don't like me right now. I accept that. I say things that are provocative. I speak the truth about what hurts and angers me.

Did I ever say I am a great buddhist? I don't think so. I am a human being. One that you currently judge harshly.

I suppose this means we aren't friends anymore.

I'm sorry for that.

Sky

There you go again. I never said I don't like you right now.

No, you speak words that hurt and you do so deliberately. That is what is bugging me right now. You are deliberately striking out at good people. I think you have an ingrown resentment of Christians. Someone who says they are Christian has hurt you deeply so you are seeking revenge at Christ and Christians. Maybe it is that you are conflicted by your disavowing Christ and acceptance of Buddhism. Maybe you were raised a "good Catholic" and you feel that you have betrayed your family and friends. I don't know what your problem is, but, I think you need help. Because there is absolutely no reason for you to be this way consistently.

It is time someone shook you up and helped you to open your eyes. I don't know a whole hell of a lot about Buddhism, but I do understand this. Hatred of others is not part of the Buddhist way.

And please don't try to tell me you don't feel hatred. Every word you post, reeks of it.

Immie

As long as you insist that you know my heart better than I do, we have nothing more to say to each other.

I guess you don't know the difference between anger and hate. I do. I'm angry about some things, not hate filled.

I'm sorry that all you can see about me right now are negative qualities. Human beings are a mix of qualities. Even a wretch like me.

Goodbye Immie

 

[Immanuel]

First of all, I do not say anything like ALL CHRISTIANS are like this. I point out what the FRC says and does. I point what Scott Lively says and does.

I do not tell you that you are a bad Christian or hate filled when you are angry. I see your humanity.

You don't like me right now. I accept that. I say things that are provocative. I speak the truth about what hurts and angers me.

Did I ever say I am a great buddhist? I don't think so. I am a human being. One that you currently judge harshly.

I suppose this means we aren't friends anymore.

I'm sorry for that.

Sky

There you go again. I never said I don't like you right now.

No, you speak words that hurt and you do so deliberately. That is what is bugging me right now. You are deliberately striking out at good people. I think you have an ingrown resentment of Christians. Someone who says they are Christian has hurt you deeply so you are seeking revenge at Christ and Christians. Maybe it is that you are conflicted by your disavowing Christ and acceptance of Buddhism. Maybe you were raised a "good Catholic" and you feel that you have betrayed your family and friends. I don't know what your problem is, but, I think you need help. Because there is absolutely no reason for you to be this way consistently.

It is time someone shook you up and helped you to open your eyes. I don't know a whole hell of a lot about Buddhism, but I do understand this. Hatred of others is not part of the Buddhist way.

And please don't try to tell me you don't feel hatred. Every word you post, reeks of it.

Immie

As long as you insist that you know my heart better than I do, we have nothing more to say to each other.

I guess you don't know the difference between anger and hate. I do. I'm angry about some things, not hate filled.

I'm sorry that all you can see about me right now are negative qualities. Human beings are a mix of qualities. Even a wretch like me.

Goodbye Immie

You can try to dismiss me all you want, I am not going anywhere.

Immie

 

[Sky Dancer]

There you go again. I never said I don't like you right now.

No, you speak words that hurt and you do so deliberately. That is what is bugging me right now. You are deliberately striking out at good people. I think you have an ingrown resentment of Christians. Someone who says they are Christian has hurt you deeply so you are seeking revenge at Christ and Christians. Maybe it is that you are conflicted by your disavowing Christ and acceptance of Buddhism. Maybe you were raised a "good Catholic" and you feel that you have betrayed your family and friends. I don't know what your problem is, but, I think you need help. Because there is absolutely no reason for you to be this way consistently.

It is time someone shook you up and helped you to open your eyes. I don't know a whole hell of a lot about Buddhism, but I do understand this. Hatred of others is not part of the Buddhist way.

And please don't try to tell me you don't feel hatred. Every word you post, reeks of it.

Immie

As long as you insist that you know my heart better than I do, we have nothing more to say to each other.

I guess you don't know the difference between anger and hate. I do. I'm angry about some things, not hate filled.

I'm sorry that all you can see about me right now are negative qualities. Human beings are a mix of qualities. Even a wretch like me.

Goodbye Immie

You can try to dismiss me all you want, I am not going anywhere.

Immie

I am. I haven't dismissed you. You dismissed me when you called me a hater.

I like you and think you have a good heart.

Too bad you can't see mine.

Bye.

 

[JoReba]

FHL FRUIT OF LIFE
Are We Really a Christian Nation ?
Written by Minister MarcAlan

There are two ministers. Both involved in politics, one an outspoken republican and the other an outspoken democrat. Each one putting his political party first. They argue and criticize other Christians who disagree with their political views. They divide Christians and encourage quarreling among them. Is this right in Gods sight? Should Christians align themselves to a political party? As Christians shouldn't our purpose and focus be to do Gods will? According to God's word, we are not representatives of a political party; but instead we are representatives of Christ. The Holy Spirit is never and cannot be double minded. Both political parties republican and democratic alike have this in common; they both lack the guidance of the Holy Spirit. So are we really a Christian nation? Is Christ the focus of our nation? And what about the church? Is the church influencing the world? Or is the world influencing the church? When you hear contemporary gospel music do you feel the presence of the holy spirit? Does it make you want to worship God? As Christians do we produce the fruit of the spirit? According to Gal. 5: 22-23(NLT) the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Is there a distinction between those who call themselves Christians from non-Christians? Do we have church leaders who overtly practice sin? Do we have Christians who knowingly ignore the practice of sin by church leaders? As a nation do we promote or support sins against God? As a nation do we promote or support sexual immorality? As a nation do we promote or support homosexuality? As a nation do we promote or support idolatry?

As a nation do we promote or support prayer in school? As a nation do we promote or support removing Christ from Christmas? As a nation do we promote or support celebrating a rabbit instead of the cross? As a nation do we promote or support materialism? As a nation do we teach our children to live a life accountable to God? As a nation do we submit to God? As a nation do we put God first? As a nation are we proud and arrogant? And is it not God who sets himself against the proud and arrogant? As a nation do we promote or support separation between church and state? As Christians we are the church and the church is the body of Christ. Anything apart or separated from Christ is dead! Rather it be one person or a whole nation. So are we really a Christian nation? You tell me!

Yes, I will tell you.

We are not a "Christian Nation," because nobody today can say exactly what the are "Christian Principles" upon which America was supposedly founded.

"All Men Created Equal," and "Unalienable Rights to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness" are found nowhere in The Bible. Those ideas were fabricated by politicians who wanted a weak Federal Government and a lassaize faire economy. That is why Robber Barons and monolithic corporations were able to flourish which raped the environment and used slave labor.

Understand ... ?

 

[emilynghiem]

We are NOT a Christian nation, in that Christianity is NOT the official state religion of the US. Christianity is the majority religion, in that most Americans claim to be Christian. Because Christianity is the majority religion, some Christians think they are owed a certain amount of privelege (just my opinion), and some of them argue that the US was founded on Christian principles rather than Theism.

We could end up a Christian theocracy, a truly Christian nation, if Dominionists like Sarah Palin have their way.

1. First I agree that many of the founders were Deist, or believed in a God of nature not just the divine laws (Thomas Jefferson even reedited his own version of the Bible deleting any references to miracles and just focusing on the natural laws for humanity's sake). Many Christian groups do not consider the Free Masons or the Rosecrutians and other spiritualist followings to be Christian but even satanic cults.

However, the fact that these founders "gathered in prayer" and prayed to God for guidance to write down our founding documents -- THAT is a Christian concept to agree "in prayer in Christ" in order to receive and invoke God's will so that decisions made are for the greater good of posterity, not just our own thoughts or efforts in the present.

2. Also, if you look at the early Quakers, from William Penn to the First Ladies such as Dolly Madison, there are equal influences from the liberal Christian Left who balanced the Christian Right. So the Christian Right is not the only representation of Christianity in the founding traditions of this nation. If you include the left, this is where the push for inclusion and tolerance and nonviolence instead of war, even abolition of slavery comes from.

3. Another Christian concept is the respect for civil authority and law, even if you disagree with it. If we didn't have that strong Christian inluence and tradition in this country, I doubt we would survive the tumultuous changes in policy that would otherwise divide the nation worse than has actually occurred.

It is one thing to believe in God, and to have power to represent or even impose laws or judgment in the name of this God. But faith in God alone by Deists and Theists is not enough to keep this country as stable and productive as it has been.

Over and over again, despite injustices and political conflicts and abuses, I have seen people apply their "Christian faith" to respecting and enduring the democratic process of reforms, no matter how much persecution and suffering this entails in "delaying justice" instead of taking justice into their own hands.

Whether you call that invoking faith or trust in higher Justice or invoking Jesus, that is still the meaning of Christ for the people to embody and follow the laws by conscience.

That is different from just being Deist or Theist.

 

[sinister59]

Dear James: We are "Christian" insofar as we take the spirit of the laws to heart by conscience, and embody truth and justice ourselves to enforce these, where the people and the government are one.

Where Christians or anybody disagrees on matters of law, there should be conflict resolution and agreement, wherever possible, in order to protect equal interests, represention and protection of all people of all views.

Nobody should abuse either majority rule, govt authority, political parties, media or collective authority to oppress or deny the equal protection of interests and due process to any other party, especially if we wish to invoke these rights ourselves!

We are human and bound to fall to hypocrisy here and there.
Finding fault with our neighbor and projecting that, while missing how our neighbor
sees equal fault with us and our judgment.
not that a christian would lesson but no we are not a christian nation , Jefferson answered that in a letter to a sheik .
The true Christian would seek to resolve such grievances in truth in order to make corrections and to restore just relations as equal neighbors under the law.

We do have this tradition in our country. America is unique in having both Constitutional laws (based on natural laws) and Christian Scripture (reflecting divine laws) in our cultural foundations.

I find it interesting as well that in the founding of America, the Christian left or Quakers at that time were just as extreme opposite as the Christian fundamental types, as we see today. The pro-abolitionists pushing for equality of persons vs. the slaveholders who were investing in the building of the nation which depended on slave labor in many areas.

Although we have not yet perfectly realized the ideals in either Christianity or Constitutionalism, we still have both in our basic principles and foundation, that has shaped our process to seek truth and justice, despite the flaws and falling along the way.

Faith that we can recover and can grow stronger for our struggles is part of the Christian faith. All these conflicts you point out, are mere "growing pains" as we learn to put unifying truth before our own conflicting interests, forgiving the past and making progress.

christian don't like it but no we are not a christian nation , Jefferson answered that in a letter to a sheik . we are a nation that honors and respect all religions . unfortunately christian don't see it that way

 

[Immanuel]

Dear James: We are "Christian" insofar as we take the spirit of the laws to heart by conscience, and embody truth and justice ourselves to enforce these, where the people and the government are one.

Where Christians or anybody disagrees on matters of law, there should be conflict resolution and agreement, wherever possible, in order to protect equal interests, represention and protection of all people of all views.

Nobody should abuse either majority rule, govt authority, political parties, media or collective authority to oppress or deny the equal protection of interests and due process to any other party, especially if we wish to invoke these rights ourselves!

We are human and bound to fall to hypocrisy here and there.
Finding fault with our neighbor and projecting that, while missing how our neighbor
sees equal fault with us and our judgment.
not that a christian would lesson but no we are not a christian nation , Jefferson answered that in a letter to a sheik .
The true Christian would seek to resolve such grievances in truth in order to make corrections and to restore just relations as equal neighbors under the law.

We do have this tradition in our country. America is unique in having both Constitutional laws (based on natural laws) and Christian Scripture (reflecting divine laws) in our cultural foundations.

I find it interesting as well that in the founding of America, the Christian left or Quakers at that time were just as extreme opposite as the Christian fundamental types, as we see today. The pro-abolitionists pushing for equality of persons vs. the slaveholders who were investing in the building of the nation which depended on slave labor in many areas.

Although we have not yet perfectly realized the ideals in either Christianity or Constitutionalism, we still have both in our basic principles and foundation, that has shaped our process to seek truth and justice, despite the flaws and falling along the way.

Faith that we can recover and can grow stronger for our struggles is part of the Christian faith. All these conflicts you point out, are mere "growing pains" as we learn to put unifying truth before our own conflicting interests, forgiving the past and making progress.

christian don't like it but no we are not a christian nation , Jefferson answered that in a letter to a sheik . we are a nation that honors and respect all religions . unfortunately christian don't see it that way

All Christians? That is a mighty broad brush you paint with Sinister one.

But welcome to USMB anyway. Glad your here.

Immie

 

[sinister59]

Dear James: We are "Christian" insofar as we take the spirit of the laws to heart by conscience, and embody truth and justice ourselves to enforce these, where the people and the government are one.

Where Christians or anybody disagrees on matters of law, there should be conflict resolution and agreement, wherever possible, in order to protect equal interests, represention and protection of all people of all views.

Nobody should abuse either majority rule, govt authority, political parties, media or collective authority to oppress or deny the equal protection of interests and due process to any other party, especially if we wish to invoke these rights ourselves!

We are human and bound to fall to hypocrisy here and there.
Finding fault with our neighbor and projecting that, while missing how our neighbor
sees equal fault with us and our judgment.
not that a christian would lesson but no we are not a christian nation , Jefferson answered that in a letter to a sheik .
The true Christian would seek to resolve such grievances in truth in order to make corrections and to restore just relations as equal neighbors under the law.

We do have this tradition in our country. America is unique in having both Constitutional laws (based on natural laws) and Christian Scripture (reflecting divine laws) in our cultural foundations.

I find it interesting as well that in the founding of America, the Christian left or Quakers at that time were just as extreme opposite as the Christian fundamental types, as we see today. The pro-abolitionists pushing for equality of persons vs. the slaveholders who were investing in the building of the nation which depended on slave labor in many areas.

Although we have not yet perfectly realized the ideals in either Christianity or Constitutionalism, we still have both in our basic principles and foundation, that has shaped our process to seek truth and justice, despite the flaws and falling along the way.

Faith that we can recover and can grow stronger for our struggles is part of the Christian faith. All these conflicts you point out, are mere "growing pains" as we learn to put unifying truth before our own conflicting interests, forgiving the past and making progress.

christian don't like it but no we are not a christian nation , Jefferson answered that in a letter to a sheik . we are a nation that honors and respect all religions . unfortunately christian don't see it that way

All Christians? That is a mighty broad brush you paint with Sinister one.

But welcome to USMB anyway. Glad your here.

Immie

thank you .

the nice thing about American christians is that they all don't agree . but the chat boards all of them seem to think this is a christian country and claim it so .

but even All baptist are not from Kansas