CDZ Are there any nations that can help persuade Indonesian government to free Ahok?

[grbb]

Imagine if you can turn a majority muslim country toward democracy without having to go to war.

You have a chance here

Ahok is a christian governor. He is recently jailed for "insulting" islam.

However, Ahok supporter are PLENTY.

He got 42% vote in Jakarta. 35% of muslims picked him. He is supported by many people. His case, and many uncertainty because of it, makes him lost the election.

However, he got 42% vote against someone graduating cumlaude from american top university. Imagine, a christian chinese governor compete well toe to toe in muslim majority country and got 42% vote against a muslim billionaire that's also moderate. Not bad.

In fact, that's the reason why he's in jail.

Some of his opponent use religions as ways to get vote.

There are people that support Ahok. They want Ahok to be freed. Even though he lost election, Ahok got 4k flowers sent to the capitol.

Many demand to eliminate anti blasphemy laws.

The blasphemy laws itself is problematic.

This is what the law said:

Sentenced to a five-year imprisonment whoever intentionally publicly exposes a feeling or commits an act:

A. Which is essentially hostile, abusive or defamatory of a religion held in Indonesia;

B. With the intention that people do not embrace any religion, which abides in Belief in the One Supreme God.

I know it sucks to have anti blasphemy laws. However, many legal scholars agree that Ahok didn't even do that. He didn't "intentionally defame" a religion. He is not doing so with the intention that people do not embrace any religion.

There is a controversy that muslims cannot pick muslim leaders. However, 35% of muslims pick Ahok nevertheless. Out of those who don't we don't know what percentage is moderate.

If only we have a bit of international pressure to eliminate the anti blasphemy laws, we may be able to free Ahok. You will have an ally be more popular. Less refugee to US. Instead, other countries can govern themselves well too and have little need of blaming and hating you.

What can we do to make this happen? I've heard some international bodies have stated their displeasure about Ahok jailing, including American vice president, Michael Pence.

Anyone else?

I would like to promote this in change.org if only I can make great petition.

 

[Picaro]

No. Most countries like the cheap minerals they export. They've been conducting slow genocides of non-Muslims since the 1950's, and not a single U.S. President has ever said Word One about it. They're fine as long as they keep the mass murders below a certain number per year. Ahok made the international news so we hear about his problems, almost never the others.

 

[grbb]

You hear about Ahok news? That means it's newsworthy enough for Americans. Maybe someone care.

What can we do to help him? Are you a fellow christian like Ahok? What could we do?

 

[Vastator]

We could mind our own business, and let Indonesians worry about Indonesia....

 

[Eloy]

You hear about Ahok news? That means it's newsworthy enough for Americans. Maybe someone care.

What can we do to help him? Are you a fellow christian like Ahok? What could we do?

USMessageBoard i not only for discussions about the United States. If you have nothing to say about a topic it is better to say nothing.

Regarding other nations bringing influence to bear on Indonesia's anti-blasphemy law and its interpretation in its courts, this would be ignored by the Indonesian authorities who listen to no-one.

 

[grbb]

You hear about Ahok news? That means it's newsworthy enough for Americans. Maybe someone care.

What can we do to help him? Are you a fellow christian like Ahok? What could we do?

USMessageBoard i not only for discussions about the United States. If you have nothing to say about a topic it is better to say nothing.

Regarding other nations bringing influence to bear on Indonesia's anti-blasphemy law and its interpretation in its courts, this would be ignored by the Indonesian authorities who listen to no-one.

They would listen.

US is a successful country. Many in Indonesia wants their country to be more like US. Your opinions matter.

The president is Ahok's friend. He need only a good reason.

 

[cnm]

The president is Ahok's friend. He need only a good reason

He already has a good reason. Behaving like a modern developed country for one thing. If that's not a good enough reason you must mean: what is a suitable bribe to influence him or Ahok's enemies?

 

[Vastator]

The president is Ahok's friend. He need only a good reason

He already has a good reason. Behaving like a modern developed country for one thing. If that's not a good enough reason you must mean: what is a suitable bribe to influence him or Ahok's enemies?

What finacial, or geopolitical gain is to be had by having my president, extend the will of my nation, on behalf of a person %95 of Americans have never heard of prior to this incident?

 

[grbb]

The people. How do we convince the people that we got to get rid those anti blasphemy laws?

 

[cnm]

What finacial, or geopolitical gain is to be had by having my president, extend the will of my nation, on behalf of a person %95 of Americans have never heard of prior to this incident?

I'd imagine the same perceived interest that had the CIA help murder thousands there.

 

[Vastator]

What finacial, or geopolitical gain is to be had by having my president, extend the will of my nation, on behalf of a person %95 of Americans have never heard of prior to this incident?

I'd imagine the same perceived interest that had the CIA help murder thousands there.

Well don't keep it to yourself... Educate us. Do you want us to support your effort, or not?

 

[grbb]

The president is Ahok's friend. He need only a good reason

He already has a good reason. Behaving like a modern developed country for one thing. If that's not a good enough reason you must mean: what is a suitable bribe to influence him or Ahok's enemies?

What finacial, or geopolitical gain is to be had by having my president, extend the will of my nation, on behalf of a person %95 of Americans have never heard of prior to this incident?

Trump wants to look like he is not anti muslims. By demanding to free Ahok and end anti blasphemy laws, he will make other countries more like US. Isn't that what American wants? Turn countries to be more like you?

Just make it clear that issues like anti blasphemy laws unfairly targetting Indonesians Christians don't sit well with bilateral trade relationship with US?

Anyway, we got one already

Indonesia: Ahok conviction for blasphemy is an injustice

 

[cnm]

Well don't keep it to yourself... Educate us.

Oh. Achieving US hegemony, or preventing other powers spreading their own influence. How can you not know that?

But it's not my effort, where did you get that idea? I don't think Indonesia can change its authoritarian mode of government for a very long time, which is what will be required.

 

[Vastator]

Well don't keep it to yourself... Educate us.

Oh. Achieving US hegemony. How can you not know that?

But it's not my effort, where did you get that idea? I don't think Indonesia can change it's authoritarian mode of government for a very long time, which is what will be required.

Then what exactly do you aim to achieve here?

 

[grbb]

It's not authoritarian. It's democracy. A real one. We got jokowi elected despite opposition from all power elite. Now we have Sandiago winning election despite Ahok getting support from all power elites.

Ahok is in jail though. Due to rubber unjust laws. If governor that works day and night building my city is in jail, we're ruined. And if one country is ruined, it will affect other countries too. Don't we want the whole world to be a better place? And yea, US hegemony....

Ahok got 42% vote in last election. Not small. 35% muslims pick him. For a muslim country, that's better than expected. We have enough moderates here. Obviously you will want Indonesia to be more friendly to US than to China, or Russia?

Even though I live far away I care about what happened in US. Why? Because I know that my country will be just like yours 30 years down the road. Hopefully faster. Whichever works there will be fixed.

Now if you let small number if islamic bigots jail some hard working christian governors, you know, it may make your country a bit like mine too. May be the effect is not as strong and as reciprocal. But it's there.

 

[cnm]

I believe outside influence will make it even less likely that the blasphemy laws will be relaxed, such influence/pressure used by the administration as an Indonesian rallying point against foreign influence.

 

[cnm]

It's not authoritarian. It's democracy. A real one.

Please.

 

[grbb]

It's not authoritarian. It's democracy. A real one.

Please.

Things changed okay. Just look at the president? We no longer have 1 guy ruling for 30 years. We have like 6 presidents now. Yes it's hard to believe. I know. And I fear my country will end up like Turkey.

We did vote. We got a furniture trader as president now.

It's like Philiphines. I know you don't like or disagree with many ways Philiphines doing it. It is democracy right?

So want to spread democracy, do it.

 

[grbb]

I believe outside influence will make it even less likely that the blasphemy laws will be relaxed, such influence/pressure used by the administration as an Indonesian rallying point against foreign influence.

What kind of foreign influence? Send bomb here then obviously no. Invest here? Hello? Interest rate is .5 % in US. It's 8% in Indonesia. Put it in stocks you got 15%? Just say that you like stable and just regions.

I don't know.

Indonesia is no longer a poor country. We still love investment. How do we make that an issue?

I am a libertarian. But I can appreciate a good government officials when I see one. Ahok managed my city as well as private sectors.

 

[cnm]

Indonesian democracy is constitutionally based on secularism, guaranteeing equal rights to all of its citizens regardless of religion as well as ethnicity.
http://time.com/​

Do you really think current events show a constitutionally based secular democracy?