Zone1 Are people responsible for their own actions, or are others responsible for someone else's actions?

[frigidweirdo]

We're going to use drugs and guns.

1) People who consume drugs and die are killing themselves OR people who consume drugs are being killed by drug traffickers (like the dude Trump pardoned, like the ones in boats in the Caribbean) OR killed by the drug dealers.

2) People who are killed with guns are killed by the gun OR they are killed by the people who sell the guns OR they're killed by the person who pulls the trigger.

If a person is killed by drug traffickers, then the same logic says the person who sells transports the guns is also doing the killed.
If a person is killed by drug dealer, then the same logic says the person who sold the gun is also doing the killing.
If the person who took the drug killed themselves, then the same logic suggests that the person pulling the trigger did the killing
If the drug killed the person, then the same logic suggests that the gun did the killing.

Which logic do you go for?

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

You make your own decisions and choose your own path. With few exceptions, people end up where they are in life because of the choices they made, good or bad.

 

[frigidweirdo]

You make your own decisions and choose your own path. With few exceptions, people end up where they are in life because of the choices they made, good or bad.

The point of this thread is to try and get people to think in a consistent manner. The problem is right now Trump supporters are saying "kill the terrorists, they're killing people with their drugs" but would NEVER admit that the person making or transporting guns is responsible for gun deaths.

 

[MarathonMike]

The problem with your discussion is you are taking complex issues like drug use/drug deaths gun use/gun deaths and then making comparisons. You may want to treat the subjects separately.

 

[OKTexas]

The point of this thread is to try and get people to think in a consistent manner. The problem is right now Trump supporters are saying "kill the terrorists, they're killing people with their drugs" but would NEVER admit that the person making or transporting guns is responsible for gun deaths.

Too often drug traffickers say they are selling one thing, when it's something else entirely. They are putting out fentanyl laced products, where one dose will kill even the most hard core users. That's the equivalent to gun manufactures selling guns that will blow up in your face. Or an airbag manufacturer that produces a product that will kill you with shrapnel, if you get in a wreck.

.

 

[westwall]

We're going to use drugs and guns.

1) People who consume drugs and die are killing themselves OR people who consume drugs are being killed by drug traffickers (like the dude Trump pardoned, like the ones in boats in the Caribbean) OR killed by the drug dealers.

2) People who are killed with guns are killed by the gun OR they are killed by the people who sell the guns OR they're killed by the person who pulls the trigger.

If a person is killed by drug traffickers, then the same logic says the person who sells transports the guns is also doing the killed.
If a person is killed by drug dealer, then the same logic says the person who sold the gun is also doing the killing.
If the person who took the drug killed themselves, then the same logic suggests that the person pulling the trigger did the killing
If the drug killed the person, then the same logic suggests that the gun did the killing.

Which logic do you go for?

Your problem is you're ignoring the collateral damage of the drug trade.

People are always responsible for THEIR actions. The drug dealers are responsible for THEIR actions. They fight over territory, which leads to innocent people dying.

Gun dealers, and gun manufacturers are making, and selling a product, the vast majority of which is used for legal purposes.

There are no legal purposes for the drug trade.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Too often drug traffickers say they are selling one thing, when it's something else entirely. They are putting out fentanyl laced products, where one dose will kill even the most hard core users. That's the equivalent to gun manufactures selling guns that will blow up in your face. Or an airbag manufacturer that produces a product that will kill you with shrapnel, if you get in a wreck.

.

But then there's enough information to know this.

You know this, so how would hard core drug users not know this?

Oh, they do. If you buy illegal drugs, everyone knows you don't know what you're getting because the FORGET to put the ingredients on the packaging.

 

[frigidweirdo]

The problem with your discussion is you are taking complex issues like drug use/drug deaths gun use/gun deaths and then making comparisons. You may want to treat the subjects separately.

The problem with my discussion is some people don't want to actually discuss it because it'll be too inconvenient for them.

 

[westwall]

The problem with my discussion is some people don't want to actually discuss it because it'll be too inconvenient for them.

Like you are avoiding my points like the plague.

Look in the mirror when you hurl your accusations.

 

[GLASNOST]

.... If a person is killed by drug traffickers, then the same logic says the person who sells transports the guns is also doing the killed. If a person is killed by drug dealer, then the same logic says the person who sold the gun is also doing the killing. If the person who took the drug killed themselves, then the same logic suggests that the person pulling the trigger did the killing If the drug killed the person, then the same logic suggests that the gun did the killing. Which logic do you go for The point of this thread is to try and get people to think in a consistent manner.

"Consistent manner"? You wrote so many incomplete sentences and so many absurd conclusions that to answer any of your questions is impossible.

... Trump supporters are saying "kill the terrorists"

Who says? You?

 

[GLASNOST]

.... you are taking complex issues .... and then making comparisons.

The problem with my discussion is some people don't want to actually discuss it because it'll be too inconvenient for them.

No. Mike is right.

 

[OKTexas]

But then there's enough information to know this.

You know this, so how would hard core drug users not know this?

Oh, they do. If you buy illegal drugs, everyone knows you don't know what you're getting because the FORGET to put the ingredients on the packaging.

That applies to meds sold in Mexican pharmacies as well. And they list the supposed ingredients, it doesn't just apply to street drugs. You'd be amazed at what Mexican pharmacies are putting out to unsuspecting buyers. Personally, I support the government selling seized drugs on the streets after lacing them with cyanide and just tag'em and bag'em. After making the public aware of course. The ones partaking with that knowledge would, would shoot you for 20 bucks at an ATM. Mass cremation would be a great way of disposal. I have held this opinion for years and posted it multiple times on this site.

I would also have no problem with taking out traffickers, after all, they are conspirators in mass murder.

.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

We're going to use drugs and guns.

1) People who consume drugs and die are killing themselves OR people who consume drugs are being killed by drug traffickers (like the dude Trump pardoned, like the ones in boats in the Caribbean) OR killed by the drug dealers.

2) People who are killed with guns are killed by the gun OR they are killed by the people who sell the guns OR they're killed by the person who pulls the trigger.

If a person is killed by drug traffickers, then the same logic says the person who sells transports the guns is also doing the killed.
If a person is killed by drug dealer, then the same logic says the person who sold the gun is also doing the killing.
If the person who took the drug killed themselves, then the same logic suggests that the person pulling the trigger did the killing
If the drug killed the person, then the same logic suggests that the gun did the killing.

Which logic do you go for?

I'm not sure that this is a good comparison ONLY because when convenient, drug addiction is said to be a disease which therefore I don't believe, can be compared to guns.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

You make your own decisions and choose your own path. With few exceptions, people end up where they are in life because of the choices they made, good or bad.

That's partially true, but not fully. Avoiding BAD decisions can help but you can also do everything right and still not be in the place you sought or should be.

 

[BULLDOG]

Too often drug traffickers say they are selling one thing, when it's something else entirely. They are putting out fentanyl laced products, where one dose will kill even the most hard core users. That's the equivalent to gun manufactures selling guns that will blow up in your face. Or an airbag manufacturer that produces a product that will kill you with shrapnel, if you get in a wreck.

.

So are you advocating federal inspection of all drug manufacturing facilities?

 

[OKTexas]

So are you advocating federal inspection of all drug manufacturing facilities?

Don't we already have that?

.

 

[frigidweirdo]

That applies to meds sold in Mexican pharmacies as well. And they list the supposed ingredients, it doesn't just apply to street drugs. You'd be amazed at what Mexican pharmacies are putting out to unsuspecting buyers. Personally, I support the government selling seized drugs on the streets after lacing them with cyanide and just tag'em and bag'em. After making the public aware of course. The ones partaking with that knowledge would, would shoot you for 20 bucks at an ATM. Mass cremation would be a great way of disposal. I have held this opinion for years and posted it multiple times on this site.

I would also have no problem with taking out traffickers, after all, they are conspirators in mass murder.

.

Well, again, you know that and so a lot of people should know that.

The problems in US society, the problems with freedom, are there for all to see. The war on drugs has been going on for decades, with the US fighting in Columbia and all sorts of things, and it hasn't been solved the way it's going.

Maybe it's time to make drugs legal, make drug companies tell people what the drugs are, perhaps have legal places where they can take these drugs too, so there are people around to deal with the problems (and tax the drugs and spend the money on helping such people), and dealing with the issues of why people take drugs.

No, instead there's a president pardoning drug traffickers while murdering people at sea.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I'm not sure that this is a good comparison ONLY because when convenient, drug addiction is said to be a disease which therefore I don't believe, can be compared to guns.

Define disease. (I'm literally ignorant of the term "disease" right now, I'm going to take a look).

Definition of DISEASE

a condition of the living animal or plant body or of one of its parts that impairs normal functioning and is typically manifested by distinguishing signs and symptoms : sickness, malady; a harmful development (as in a social institution); trouble… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

"1) a condition of the living animal or plant body or of one of its parts that impairs normal functioning and is typically manifested by distinguishing signs and symptoms "

Hmm. No, I don't think drug addiction meets this definition.

"2) a harmful development (as in a social institution)"

No, I don't think it meets this definition either.

However, I do know that people have addictive personalities. Is this something that "impairs normal function", no.

I don't think drug addiction is a disease.

I think it's as serious issue, something that needs to be understood. I think in China or other countries where it's very difficult to get drugs to be addicted to them, people will still have addictive personalities, but that doesn't mean it will end up as a drug problem.

Some people take drugs for a variety of reasons, mostly to avoid reality.

But that isn't the point of this topic.

The point is about the source of people's method of dying.

 

[frigidweirdo]

No. Mike is right.

This is the clean DEBATE zone. Your post should add to the debate. You need to explain WHY you think he's right.

 

[GLASNOST]

This is the clean DEBATE zone. Your post should add to the debate. You need to explain WHY you think he's right.

Because some people don't want to actually discuss it because it'll be too inconvenient for them.