CDZ Are anti gunners serious when they say they will stop at 10 round magazines?

[rightwinger]

OMG!

A COMMA!

Everyone knows, don't believe anything written before a comma

OMG ... You think we can forget what is written after the comma ... It is specific.
You ... Really have to ignore everything to make your irrelevant point ... And you actually think that is an argument worth making.

Damn dude ... Good luck with that ... It obviously hasn't stopped me from owning what I want ...

.

A comma does not negate what came before it

 

[rightwinger]

Why not?

Semiautomatic automatic rifles with 30 round magazines have been around for many decades and rifles of any kind are used in less than 2% of all murders.

How many other rifles come standard with a 30 round clip? I know you can buy them, but how many come with it?

They need a 30 round magazine

What if you are hunting and come upon a herd of Grizzly Bears?

No...if you own a store and are in the middle of a democrat, black lives matter riot when they are burning and looting everyone elses store...but not yours....because they see you have a rifle with a 30 round magazine..

No....if you are a rancher on the border and you have drug cartels and other coyotes moving across your land and the police are an hour away.....your AR-15 and your 30 round magazine may be your only lifeline...considering the drug cartels arme their people with fully automatic, military rifles.....

No.....if you are in the middle of the aftermath of a hurricane or other natural disaster and the police can't be everywhere all the time....your AR-15 and your 30 round magazine may be the only thing between your family and the thugs roaming the wreckage....

So no....you are wrong.....

Everyone knows that three10 round magazines can be reloaded just as fast as a 30 round magazine and they weigh less and are less likely to jam

So who needs a 30 round magazine?

3 ten round mags are heavier than 1 30 round mag.

and the 30 round mags don't jam more than 10 round mags.

30 round mags have been standard capacity for decades

Any reasonable gun owner can load three ten round mags as quickly as he can shoot a 30 round mag

If he can't, looks like we have justification for banning that 30 round mag

 

[rightwinger]

Nobody needs a magazine larger than ten rounds

Nobody asked you ... Nor should we be that concerned with what you think ...
Talk to your Representatives ... Maybe they can help you understand how insignificant your opinion on the matter is.


.

Actually, in light of the slaughters we had just this year.....it is very significant

 

[Skull Pilot]

How many other rifles come standard with a 30 round clip? I know you can buy them, but how many come with it?

They need a 30 round magazine

What if you are hunting and come upon a herd of Grizzly Bears?

No...if you own a store and are in the middle of a democrat, black lives matter riot when they are burning and looting everyone elses store...but not yours....because they see you have a rifle with a 30 round magazine..

No....if you are a rancher on the border and you have drug cartels and other coyotes moving across your land and the police are an hour away.....your AR-15 and your 30 round magazine may be your only lifeline...considering the drug cartels arme their people with fully automatic, military rifles.....

No.....if you are in the middle of the aftermath of a hurricane or other natural disaster and the police can't be everywhere all the time....your AR-15 and your 30 round magazine may be the only thing between your family and the thugs roaming the wreckage....

So no....you are wrong.....

Everyone knows that three10 round magazines can be reloaded just as fast as a 30 round magazine and they weigh less and are less likely to jam

So who needs a 30 round magazine?

3 ten round mags are heavier than 1 30 round mag.

and the 30 round mags don't jam more than 10 round mags.

30 round mags have been standard capacity for decades

Any reasonable gun owner can load three ten round mags as quickly as he can shoot a 30 round mag

If he can't, looks like we have justification for banning that 30 round mag

Magazine size doesn't really matter. Never has never will.

There is no reason to limit magazines to 10 or less.

My carry gun is a Glock 19 it can accept a 15 round magazine but in my state only 10 round magazines are allowed. So instead of carrying my 9 mm with one 15 round magazine and one in the chamber I now carry a spare 10 round magazine for a total of 21 rounds so the magazine size limit actually results in people like me carrying more ammunition than I used to.

 

[2aguy]

Nobody needs a magazine larger than ten rounds

Nobody asked you ... Nor should we be that concerned with what you think ...
Talk to your Representatives ... Maybe they can help you understand how insignificant your opinion on the matter is.


.

Actually, in light of the slaughters we had just this year.....it is very significant

You mean the 89 people murdered with the rental truck? More than the 6 mass public shootings in 2016 combined...you mean like that?

 

[jon_berzerk]

They need a 30 round magazine

What if you are hunting and come upon a herd of Grizzly Bears?

No...if you own a store and are in the middle of a democrat, black lives matter riot when they are burning and looting everyone elses store...but not yours....because they see you have a rifle with a 30 round magazine..

No....if you are a rancher on the border and you have drug cartels and other coyotes moving across your land and the police are an hour away.....your AR-15 and your 30 round magazine may be your only lifeline...considering the drug cartels arme their people with fully automatic, military rifles.....

No.....if you are in the middle of the aftermath of a hurricane or other natural disaster and the police can't be everywhere all the time....your AR-15 and your 30 round magazine may be the only thing between your family and the thugs roaming the wreckage....

So no....you are wrong.....

Everyone knows that three10 round magazines can be reloaded just as fast as a 30 round magazine and they weigh less and are less likely to jam

So who needs a 30 round magazine?

3 ten round mags are heavier than 1 30 round mag.

and the 30 round mags don't jam more than 10 round mags.

30 round mags have been standard capacity for decades

Any reasonable gun owner can load three ten round mags as quickly as he can shoot a 30 round mag

If he can't, looks like we have justification for banning that 30 round mag

Magazine size doesn't really matter. Never has never will.

There is no reason to limit magazines to 10 or less.

My carry gun is a Glock 19 it can accept a 15 round magazine but in my state only 10 round magazines are allowed. So instead of carrying my 9 mm with one 15 round magazine and one in the chamber I now carry a spare 10 round magazine for a total of 21 rounds so the magazine size limit actually results in people like me carrying more ammunition than I used to.

leftards just dont get it

--LOL

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I own rifles and handguns and will never commit murder so what does it matter If I own semiautomatic rifles?

so you can promise me that you will never, ever have a mental breakdown?

ohh so now the argument is cause you MIGHT break the law? using that standard no one should drive.

 

[2aguy]

They need a 30 round magazine

What if you are hunting and come upon a herd of Grizzly Bears?

No...if you own a store and are in the middle of a democrat, black lives matter riot when they are burning and looting everyone elses store...but not yours....because they see you have a rifle with a 30 round magazine..

No....if you are a rancher on the border and you have drug cartels and other coyotes moving across your land and the police are an hour away.....your AR-15 and your 30 round magazine may be your only lifeline...considering the drug cartels arme their people with fully automatic, military rifles.....

No.....if you are in the middle of the aftermath of a hurricane or other natural disaster and the police can't be everywhere all the time....your AR-15 and your 30 round magazine may be the only thing between your family and the thugs roaming the wreckage....

So no....you are wrong.....

Everyone knows that three10 round magazines can be reloaded just as fast as a 30 round magazine and they weigh less and are less likely to jam

So who needs a 30 round magazine?

3 ten round mags are heavier than 1 30 round mag.

and the 30 round mags don't jam more than 10 round mags.

30 round mags have been standard capacity for decades

Any reasonable gun owner can load three ten round mags as quickly as he can shoot a 30 round mag

If he can't, looks like we have justification for banning that 30 round mag

Magazine size doesn't really matter. Never has never will.

There is no reason to limit magazines to 10 or less.

My carry gun is a Glock 19 it can accept a 15 round magazine but in my state only 10 round magazines are allowed. So instead of carrying my 9 mm with one 15 round magazine and one in the chamber I now carry a spare 10 round magazine for a total of 21 rounds so the magazine size limit actually results in people like me carrying more ammunition than I used to.

And, as you know, they don't really care about the capacity...other than as a way to ratchet down on gun magazines.....once they get all the rest, they will wait for the next shooter, like the guy in California Isla Verde....who used the mandated 10 round magazines....then they will say that no one should have a magazine fed weapon, period.....we can all just use revolvers......

 

[2aguy]

No...if you own a store and are in the middle of a democrat, black lives matter riot when they are burning and looting everyone elses store...but not yours....because they see you have a rifle with a 30 round magazine..

No....if you are a rancher on the border and you have drug cartels and other coyotes moving across your land and the police are an hour away.....your AR-15 and your 30 round magazine may be your only lifeline...considering the drug cartels arme their people with fully automatic, military rifles.....

No.....if you are in the middle of the aftermath of a hurricane or other natural disaster and the police can't be everywhere all the time....your AR-15 and your 30 round magazine may be the only thing between your family and the thugs roaming the wreckage....

So no....you are wrong.....

Everyone knows that three10 round magazines can be reloaded just as fast as a 30 round magazine and they weigh less and are less likely to jam

So who needs a 30 round magazine?

3 ten round mags are heavier than 1 30 round mag.

and the 30 round mags don't jam more than 10 round mags.

30 round mags have been standard capacity for decades

Any reasonable gun owner can load three ten round mags as quickly as he can shoot a 30 round mag

If he can't, looks like we have justification for banning that 30 round mag

Magazine size doesn't really matter. Never has never will.

There is no reason to limit magazines to 10 or less.

My carry gun is a Glock 19 it can accept a 15 round magazine but in my state only 10 round magazines are allowed. So instead of carrying my 9 mm with one 15 round magazine and one in the chamber I now carry a spare 10 round magazine for a total of 21 rounds so the magazine size limit actually results in people like me carrying more ammunition than I used to.

leftards just dont get it

--LOL

They get it....which is why they use the tactics they use....

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The Heller decision was a gift to the anti-gun control crowd

They found that the DC restrictions on handguns were excessive and were not supported by a pressing government interest

But even Heller made it clear that the government had a right to ban certain firearms if they could prove a pressing societal reason for the ban

Given the preference of mass murderers to use assault type weapons with large capacity magazines and the lack of a pressing reason why private citizens need so much firepower...Even Heller would agree with the ban

Yeah....no. Considering there are 13 million AR-15 rifles in private hands...and 2 were used for crimes......one by a guy who was already banned from owning one and who the government screwed up in his background check.....and no, you don't get to ban them.....

And magazine size has nothing to do with how many people die.....you have seen the research...here it is again...

Large-Capacity Magazines and the Casualty Counts in Mass Shootings: The Plausibility of Linkages by Gary Kleck :: SSRN

Do bans on large-capacity magazines (LCMs) for semiautomatic firearms have significant potential for reducing the number of deaths and injuries in mass shootings?
The most common rationale for an effect of LCM use is that they allow mass killers to fire many rounds without reloading.
LCMs are used is less than 1/3 of 1% of mass shootings.
News accounts of 23 shootings in which more than six people were killed or wounded and LCMs were used, occurring in the U.S. in 1994-2013, were examined.
There was only one incident in which the shooter may have been stopped by bystander intervention when he tried to reload.
In all of these 23 incidents the shooter possessed either multiple guns or multiple magazines, meaning that the shooter, even if denied LCMs, could have continued firing without significant interruption by either switching loaded guns or by changing smaller loaded magazines with only a 2-4 second delay for each magazine change.
Finally, the data indicate that mass shooters maintain slow enough rates of fire such that the time needed to reload would not increase the time between shots and thus the time available for prospective victims to escape.

--------

We did not employ the oft-used definition of “mass murder” as a homicide in which four or more victims were killed, because most of these involve just four to six victims (Duwe 2007), which could therefore have involved as few as six rounds fired, a number that shooters using even ordinary revolvers are capable of firing without reloading.

LCMs obviously cannot help shooters who fire no more rounds than could be fired without LCMs, so the inclusion of “nonaffectable” cases with only four to six victims would dilute the sample, reducing the percent of sample incidents in which an LCM might have affected the number of casualties.

Further, had we studied only homicides with four or more dead victims, drawn from the FBI’s Supplementary Homicide Reports, we would have missed cases in which huge numbers of people were shot, and huge numbers of rounds were fired, but three or fewer of the victims died.


For example, in one widely publicized shooting carried out in Los Angeles on February 28, 1997, two bank robbers shot a total of 18 people - surely a mass shooting by any reasonable standard (Table 1).

Yet, because none of the people they shot died, this incident would not qualify as a mass murder (or even murder of any kind).

Exclusion of such incidents would bias the sample against the proposition that LCM use increases the number of victims by excluding incidents with large numbers of victims. We also excluded shootings in which more than six persons were shot over the entire course of the incident but shootings occurred in multiple locations with no more than six people shot in any one of the locations, and substantial periods of time intervened between episodes of shooting. An example is the series of killings committed by Rodrick Dantzler on July 7, 2011.

Once eligible incidents were identified, we searched through news accounts for details related to whether the use of LCMs could have influenced the casualty counts.

Specifically, we searched for

(1) the number of magazines in the shooter’s immediate possession,

(2) the capacity of the largest magazine,

(3) the number of guns in the shooter’s immediate possession during the incident,

(4) the types of guns possessed,

(5) whether the shooter reloaded during the incident,

(6) the number of rounds fired,

(7) the duration of the shooting from the first shot fired to the last, and (8) whether anyone intervened to stop the shooter.

Findings How Many Mass Shootings were Committed Using LCMs?

We identified 23 total incidents in which more than six people were shot at a single time and place in the U.S. from 1994 through 2013 and that were known to involve use of any magazines with capacities over ten rounds.


Table 1 summarizes key details of the LCMinvolved mass shootings relevant to the issues addressed in this paper.

(Table 1 about here) What fraction of all mass shootings involve LCMs?

There is no comprehensive listing of all mass shootings available for the entire 1994-2013 period, but the most extensive one currently available is at the Shootingtracker.com website, which only began its coverage in 2013.

-----

How Often Have Bystanders Intervened While a Mass Shooter Was Trying to Reload?

First, we consider the issue of how many times people have disrupted a mass shooting while the shooter was trying to load a detachable magazine into a semiautomatic gun.

Note that 16 it is irrelevant whether interveners have stopped a shooter while trying to reload some other type of gun, using other kinds of magazines, since we are addressing the potential significance of restrictions on the capacity of detachable magazines which are used only with semiautomatic firearms.

Thus, bystander intervention directed at shooters using other types of guns that take much longer to reload than a semiautomatic gun using detachable magazines could not provide any guidance as to the likelihood of bystander intervention when the shooter was using a semiautomatic gun equipped with detachable magazines that can be reloaded very quickly.

Prospective interveners would presumably be more likely to tackle a shooter who took a long time to reload than one who took only 2-4 seconds to do so.

Likewise, bystander interventions that occurred at a time when the shooter was not reloading (e.g., when he was struggling with a defective gun or magazine) are irrelevant, since that kind of intervention could occur regardless of what kinds of magazines or firearms the shooter was using.


It is the need to reload detachable magazines sooner and more often that differentiates shooters using smaller detachable magazines from those using larger ones.

For the period 1994-2013 inclusive, we identified three mass shooting incidents in which it was claimed that interveners disrupted the shooting by tackling the shooter while he was trying to reload.

In only one of the three cases, however, did interveners actually tackle the shooter while he may have been reloading a semiautomatic firearm.

In one of the incidents, the weapon in question was a shotgun that had to be reloaded by inserting one shotshell at a time into the weapon (Knoxville News Sentinel “Takedown of Alleged Shooter Recounted” July 29, 2008, regarding a shooting in Knoxville, TN on July 27, 2008), and so the incident is irrelevant to the effects of detachable LCMs.


In another incident, occurring in Springfield, Oregon on May 21, 1998, the shooter, Kip Kinkel, was using a semiautomatic gun, and he was tackled by bystanders, but not while he was reloading.

After exhausting the ammunition in one gun, the shooter started 17 firing another loaded gun, one of three firearms he had with him.

The first intervener was shot in the hand in the course of wresting this still-loaded gun away from the shooter (The (Portland) Oregonian, May 23, 1998).


The final case occurred in Tucson, AZ on January 8, 2011.

This is the shooting in which Jared Loughner attempted to assassinate Representative Gabrielle Giffords.

The shooter was using a semiautomatic firearm and was tackled by bystanders, purportedly while trying to reload a detachable magazine.

Even in this case, however, there were important uncertainties.

According to one news account, one bystander “grabbed a full magazine” that the shooter dropped, and two others helped subdue him (Associated Press, January 9, 2011).

It is not, however, clear whether this bystander intervention was facilitated because

(1) the shooter was reloading, or because

(2) the shooter stopping firing when his gun or magazine failed to function properly.

Eyewitness testimony, including that of the interveners, was inconsistent as to exactly why or how the intervention transpired in Giffords shooting.

One intervener insisted that he was sure the shooter had exhausted the ammunition in the first magazine (and thus was about to reload) because he saw the gun’s slide locked back – a condition he believed could only occur with this particular firearm after the last round is fired.

In fact, this can also happen when the guns jams, i.e. fails to chamber the next round (Salzgeber 2014; Morrill 2014).

Complicating matters further, the New York Times reported that the spring on the second magazine was broken, presumably rendering it incapable of functioning.

Their story’s headline and text characterized this mechanical failure as “perhaps the only fortunate event of the day” (New York Times “A Single, Terrifying Moment: Shots, Scuffle, Some Luck,” January 10, 2011, p. A1)

. If the New York Times account was accurate, the shooter would not have been able to continue shooting with that magazine even if no one had stopped him from loading it into his gun.

Detachable magazines of any size can malfunction, which would at least temporarily stop a prospective mass shooter from firing, and thereby provide an opportunity for bystanders to stop the shooter.
It is possible that the bystander intervention in the Tucson case could have occurred regardless of what size magazines the shooter possessed, since a shooter struggling with a defective small-capacity magazine would be just as vulnerable to disruption as one struggling with a defective large-capacity magazine. Thus, it remains unclear whether the shooter was reloading when the bystanders tackled him.
-----
The offenders in LCM-involved mass shootings were also known to have reloaded during 14 of the 23 (61%) incidents with magazine holding over 10 rounds.

The shooters were known to have not reloaded in another two of these 20 incidents and it could not be determined if they reloaded in the remaining seven incidents.

Thus, even if the shooters had been denied LCMs, we know that most of them definitely would have been able to reload smaller detachable magazines without interference from bystanders since they in fact did change magazines.

The fact that this percentage is less than 100% should not, however, be interpreted to mean that the shooters were unable to reload in the other nine incidents.

It is possible that the shooters could also have reloaded in many of these nine shootings, but chose not to do so, or did not need to do so in order to fire all the rounds they wanted to fire. This is consistent with the fact that there has been at most only one mass shootings in twenty years in which reloading a semiautomatic firearm might have been blocked by bystanders intervening and thereby stopping the shooter from doing all the shooting he wanted to do. All we know is that in two incidents the shooter did not reload, and news accounts of seven other incidents did not mention whether the offender reloaded.

----

For example, a story in the Hartford Courant about the Sandy Hook elementary school killings in 2012 was headlined “Shooter Paused, and Six Escaped,” the text asserting that as many as six children may have survived because the shooter paused to reload (December 23, 2012). ''

The author of the story, however, went on to concede that this was just a speculation by an unnamed source, and that it was also possible that some children simply escaped when the killer was shooting other children.

There was no reliable evidence that the pauses were due to the shooter reloading, rather than his guns jamming or the shooter simply choosing to pause his shooting while his gun was still loaded.

The plausibility of the “victims escape” rationale depends on the average rates of fire that shooters in mass shootings typically maintain.

If they fire very fast, the 2-4 seconds it takes to change box-type detachable magazines could produce a slowing of the rate of fire that the shooters otherwise would have maintained without the magazine changes, increasing the average time between rounds fired and potentially allowing more victims to escape during the betweenshot intervals.

On the other hand, if mass shooters fire their guns with the average interval between shots lasting more than 2-4 seconds, the pauses due to additional magazine changes would be no longer than the pauses the shooter typically took between shots even when not reloading.

In that case, there would be no more opportunity for potential victims to escape than there would have been without the additional magazine changes

-----

In sum, in nearly all LCM-involved mass shootings, the time it takes to reload a detachable magazine is no greater than the average time between shots that the shooter takes anyway when not reloading.

Consequently, there is no affirmative evidence that reloading detachable magazines slows mass shooters’ rates of fire, and thus no affirmative evidence that the number of victims who could escape the killers due to additional pauses in the shooting is increased by the shooter’s need to change magazines.

You still haven't said why the military always uses large capacity magazines in combat, if it doesn't make any difference anyway.

30 round magazines are the standard in the military.

As they had been in the civilian market for decades.

only recently has "large capacity" come to mean more than 10

Just because the military has 30, doesn't mean civilians should have access unless they belong to a well regulated militia

EVERY ONE 17 to 45 belongs to the militia dumb ass.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Everyone knows that three10 round magazines can be reloaded just as fast as a 30 round magazine and they weigh less and are less likely to jam

So who needs a 30 round magazine?

3 ten round mags are heavier than 1 30 round mag.

and the 30 round mags don't jam more than 10 round mags.

30 round mags have been standard capacity for decades

Any reasonable gun owner can load three ten round mags as quickly as he can shoot a 30 round mag

If he can't, looks like we have justification for banning that 30 round mag

Magazine size doesn't really matter. Never has never will.

There is no reason to limit magazines to 10 or less.

My carry gun is a Glock 19 it can accept a 15 round magazine but in my state only 10 round magazines are allowed. So instead of carrying my 9 mm with one 15 round magazine and one in the chamber I now carry a spare 10 round magazine for a total of 21 rounds so the magazine size limit actually results in people like me carrying more ammunition than I used to.

leftards just dont get it

--LOL

They get it....which is why they use the tactics they use....

yes but they do not realize their positions actually backfire

as for purposefully misstating yes they do that intentionally

 

[2aguy]

How many other rifles come standard with a 30 round clip? I know you can buy them, but how many come with it?

They need a 30 round magazine

What if you are hunting and come upon a herd of Grizzly Bears?

No...if you own a store and are in the middle of a democrat, black lives matter riot when they are burning and looting everyone elses store...but not yours....because they see you have a rifle with a 30 round magazine..

No....if you are a rancher on the border and you have drug cartels and other coyotes moving across your land and the police are an hour away.....your AR-15 and your 30 round magazine may be your only lifeline...considering the drug cartels arme their people with fully automatic, military rifles.....

No.....if you are in the middle of the aftermath of a hurricane or other natural disaster and the police can't be everywhere all the time....your AR-15 and your 30 round magazine may be the only thing between your family and the thugs roaming the wreckage....

So no....you are wrong.....

Everyone knows that three10 round magazines can be reloaded just as fast as a 30 round magazine and they weigh less and are less likely to jam

So who needs a 30 round magazine?

3 ten round mags are heavier than 1 30 round mag.

and the 30 round mags don't jam more than 10 round mags.

30 round mags have been standard capacity for decades

Any reasonable gun owner can load three ten round mags as quickly as he can shoot a 30 round mag

If he can't, looks like we have justification for banning that 30 round mag

Yeah...except no....

The Costs and Consequences of Gun Control



----

The persons who have the most need for actual high-capacity magazines are those who would have great difficulty changing a magazine — such as elderly persons or persons with disabilities. For an able-bodied person, changing a magazine only takes a few seconds. Typically a gun’s magazine-release button is near the trigger. To change a magazine, the person holding the gun presses the magazine-release button with a thumb or finger. The magazine instantly drops to the floor. While one hand was pushing the magazine-release button, the other hand can grab a fresh magazine (which might be carried in a special holster on a belt) and bring it toward the gun. The moment the old magazine drops out, a fresh one is inserted.37


-----


Although one can quickly change magazines, persons being attacked by criminals will typically prefer not to spend even a few seconds for a magazine change. The stress of being attacked usually impedes fine motor skills, making it much more difficult to insert the magazine.38 That is why many semiautomatic handguns come factory-standard with a magazine of 11 to 20 rounds. Thus, a ban on magazines with a capacity of more than 10 rounds means a ban on some of the most common and most useful magazines purchased for purposes of recreational target practice and self-defense.

Why might someone need a factory-standard 17-round magazine for a common 9mm handgun? As noted, standard-capacity magazines can be very useful for self-defense. This is especially true if a defender faces multiple attackers, an attacker is wearing heavy clothing or body armor, an attacker who is turbo-charged by methamphetamine or cocaine, or an attacker who poses an active threat from behind cover. In stressful circumstances, police as well as civilians often miss when firing a handgun even at close range, so having the extra rounds can be crucial.


It is important to consider the advantages a criminal has over his intended victims. The criminal has the element of surprise, whereas the victim is the one surprised. The criminal can decide at leisure what weaponry he will bring; whereas the victim must respond with what’s at hand at the moment of attack. A criminal can bring several guns, or lots of magazines; whereas the victim will usually have on hand, at most, a single defensive gun with only as much ammunition as is in that gun. Thus, legislation confining law-abiding victims to magazines of 10 or fewer magnifies the criminal’s advantage over his intended victim


Violent confrontations are unpredictable; for example, if a person is fighting against one or two perpetrators, he may not know if there is an additional, hidden attacker. Thus, defensive gun users need to keep a reserve of ammunition. So even though armed defenders do not usually fire more than 10 shots, reducing reserve capacity (e.g., from a standard 17-round magazine to a 10-round substitute) will reduce the number of defensive shots. Fewer shots fired at the attacker reduces the risk of injury to the attacker, and thereby raises the risk of injury to the victim.

 

[rightwinger]

They need a 30 round magazine

What if you are hunting and come upon a herd of Grizzly Bears?

No...if you own a store and are in the middle of a democrat, black lives matter riot when they are burning and looting everyone elses store...but not yours....because they see you have a rifle with a 30 round magazine..

No....if you are a rancher on the border and you have drug cartels and other coyotes moving across your land and the police are an hour away.....your AR-15 and your 30 round magazine may be your only lifeline...considering the drug cartels arme their people with fully automatic, military rifles.....

No.....if you are in the middle of the aftermath of a hurricane or other natural disaster and the police can't be everywhere all the time....your AR-15 and your 30 round magazine may be the only thing between your family and the thugs roaming the wreckage....

So no....you are wrong.....

Everyone knows that three10 round magazines can be reloaded just as fast as a 30 round magazine and they weigh less and are less likely to jam

So who needs a 30 round magazine?

3 ten round mags are heavier than 1 30 round mag.

and the 30 round mags don't jam more than 10 round mags.

30 round mags have been standard capacity for decades

Any reasonable gun owner can load three ten round mags as quickly as he can shoot a 30 round mag

If he can't, looks like we have justification for banning that 30 round mag

Magazine size doesn't really matter. Never has never will.

There is no reason to limit magazines to 10 or less.

My carry gun is a Glock 19 it can accept a 15 round magazine but in my state only 10 round magazines are allowed. So instead of carrying my 9 mm with one 15 round magazine and one in the chamber I now carry a spare 10 round magazine for a total of 21 rounds so the magazine size limit actually results in people like me carrying more ammunition than I used to.

See how easy it is?

You have no need for a higher capacity magazine

 

[BlackSand]

Actually, in light of the slaughters we had just this year.....it is very significant

Keep telling yourself that ... I am sure that will be more productive than anything else.
I still have 30 round mags ... How well is your plan working?

.

 

[BlackSand]

You have no need for a higher capacity magazine

Correct ... I already have plenty of 30 round mags.
Might get another one though ... If they come out with new graphics or something ...

.

 

[rightwinger]

They need a 30 round magazine

What if you are hunting and come upon a herd of Grizzly Bears?

No...if you own a store and are in the middle of a democrat, black lives matter riot when they are burning and looting everyone elses store...but not yours....because they see you have a rifle with a 30 round magazine..

No....if you are a rancher on the border and you have drug cartels and other coyotes moving across your land and the police are an hour away.....your AR-15 and your 30 round magazine may be your only lifeline...considering the drug cartels arme their people with fully automatic, military rifles.....

No.....if you are in the middle of the aftermath of a hurricane or other natural disaster and the police can't be everywhere all the time....your AR-15 and your 30 round magazine may be the only thing between your family and the thugs roaming the wreckage....

So no....you are wrong.....

Everyone knows that three10 round magazines can be reloaded just as fast as a 30 round magazine and they weigh less and are less likely to jam

So who needs a 30 round magazine?

3 ten round mags are heavier than 1 30 round mag.

and the 30 round mags don't jam more than 10 round mags.

30 round mags have been standard capacity for decades

Any reasonable gun owner can load three ten round mags as quickly as he can shoot a 30 round mag

If he can't, looks like we have justification for banning that 30 round mag

Yeah...except no....

The Costs and Consequences of Gun Control



----

The persons who have the most need for actual high-capacity magazines are those who would have great difficulty changing a magazine — such as elderly persons or persons with disabilities. For an able-bodied person, changing a magazine only takes a few seconds. Typically a gun’s magazine-release button is near the trigger. To change a magazine, the person holding the gun presses the magazine-release button with a thumb or finger. The magazine instantly drops to the floor. While one hand was pushing the magazine-release button, the other hand can grab a fresh magazine (which might be carried in a special holster on a belt) and bring it toward the gun. The moment the old magazine drops out, a fresh one is inserted.37


-----


Although one can quickly change magazines, persons being attacked by criminals will typically prefer not to spend even a few seconds for a magazine change. The stress of being attacked usually impedes fine motor skills, making it much more difficult to insert the magazine.38 That is why many semiautomatic handguns come factory-standard with a magazine of 11 to 20 rounds. Thus, a ban on magazines with a capacity of more than 10 rounds means a ban on some of the most common and most useful magazines purchased for purposes of recreational target practice and self-defense.

Why might someone need a factory-standard 17-round magazine for a common 9mm handgun? As noted, standard-capacity magazines can be very useful for self-defense. This is especially true if a defender faces multiple attackers, an attacker is wearing heavy clothing or body armor, an attacker who is turbo-charged by methamphetamine or cocaine, or an attacker who poses an active threat from behind cover. In stressful circumstances, police as well as civilians often miss when firing a handgun even at close range, so having the extra rounds can be crucial.


It is important to consider the advantages a criminal has over his intended victims. The criminal has the element of surprise, whereas the victim is the one surprised. The criminal can decide at leisure what weaponry he will bring; whereas the victim must respond with what’s at hand at the moment of attack. A criminal can bring several guns, or lots of magazines; whereas the victim will usually have on hand, at most, a single defensive gun with only as much ammunition as is in that gun. Thus, legislation confining law-abiding victims to magazines of 10 or fewer magnifies the criminal’s advantage over his intended victim


Violent confrontations are unpredictable; for example, if a person is fighting against one or two perpetrators, he may not know if there is an additional, hidden attacker. Thus, defensive gun users need to keep a reserve of ammunition. So even though armed defenders do not usually fire more than 10 shots, reducing reserve capacity (e.g., from a standard 17-round magazine to a 10-round substitute) will reduce the number of defensive shots. Fewer shots fired at the attacker reduces the risk of injury to the attacker, and thereby raises the risk of injury to the victim.

Absolutely..

The persons who have the most need for actual high-capacity magazines are those who would have great difficulty changing a magazine — such as elderly persons or persons with disabilities. For an able-bodied person, changing a magazine only takes a few seconds.

See? You have no need for a high capacity magazine and would not be inconvenienced in the least

 

[2aguy]

No...if you own a store and are in the middle of a democrat, black lives matter riot when they are burning and looting everyone elses store...but not yours....because they see you have a rifle with a 30 round magazine..

No....if you are a rancher on the border and you have drug cartels and other coyotes moving across your land and the police are an hour away.....your AR-15 and your 30 round magazine may be your only lifeline...considering the drug cartels arme their people with fully automatic, military rifles.....

No.....if you are in the middle of the aftermath of a hurricane or other natural disaster and the police can't be everywhere all the time....your AR-15 and your 30 round magazine may be the only thing between your family and the thugs roaming the wreckage....

So no....you are wrong.....

Everyone knows that three10 round magazines can be reloaded just as fast as a 30 round magazine and they weigh less and are less likely to jam

So who needs a 30 round magazine?

3 ten round mags are heavier than 1 30 round mag.

and the 30 round mags don't jam more than 10 round mags.

30 round mags have been standard capacity for decades

Any reasonable gun owner can load three ten round mags as quickly as he can shoot a 30 round mag

If he can't, looks like we have justification for banning that 30 round mag

Magazine size doesn't really matter. Never has never will.

There is no reason to limit magazines to 10 or less.

My carry gun is a Glock 19 it can accept a 15 round magazine but in my state only 10 round magazines are allowed. So instead of carrying my 9 mm with one 15 round magazine and one in the chamber I now carry a spare 10 round magazine for a total of 21 rounds so the magazine size limit actually results in people like me carrying more ammunition than I used to.

See how easy it is?

You have no need for a higher capacity magazine

Keep ignoring the points made by David Kopel......he is write, you understand that he is right.....so now you must troll...

 

[2aguy]

No...if you own a store and are in the middle of a democrat, black lives matter riot when they are burning and looting everyone elses store...but not yours....because they see you have a rifle with a 30 round magazine..

No....if you are a rancher on the border and you have drug cartels and other coyotes moving across your land and the police are an hour away.....your AR-15 and your 30 round magazine may be your only lifeline...considering the drug cartels arme their people with fully automatic, military rifles.....

No.....if you are in the middle of the aftermath of a hurricane or other natural disaster and the police can't be everywhere all the time....your AR-15 and your 30 round magazine may be the only thing between your family and the thugs roaming the wreckage....

So no....you are wrong.....

Everyone knows that three10 round magazines can be reloaded just as fast as a 30 round magazine and they weigh less and are less likely to jam

So who needs a 30 round magazine?

3 ten round mags are heavier than 1 30 round mag.

and the 30 round mags don't jam more than 10 round mags.

30 round mags have been standard capacity for decades

Any reasonable gun owner can load three ten round mags as quickly as he can shoot a 30 round mag

If he can't, looks like we have justification for banning that 30 round mag

Yeah...except no....

The Costs and Consequences of Gun Control



----

The persons who have the most need for actual high-capacity magazines are those who would have great difficulty changing a magazine — such as elderly persons or persons with disabilities. For an able-bodied person, changing a magazine only takes a few seconds. Typically a gun’s magazine-release button is near the trigger. To change a magazine, the person holding the gun presses the magazine-release button with a thumb or finger. The magazine instantly drops to the floor. While one hand was pushing the magazine-release button, the other hand can grab a fresh magazine (which might be carried in a special holster on a belt) and bring it toward the gun. The moment the old magazine drops out, a fresh one is inserted.37


-----


Although one can quickly change magazines, persons being attacked by criminals will typically prefer not to spend even a few seconds for a magazine change. The stress of being attacked usually impedes fine motor skills, making it much more difficult to insert the magazine.38 That is why many semiautomatic handguns come factory-standard with a magazine of 11 to 20 rounds. Thus, a ban on magazines with a capacity of more than 10 rounds means a ban on some of the most common and most useful magazines purchased for purposes of recreational target practice and self-defense.

Why might someone need a factory-standard 17-round magazine for a common 9mm handgun? As noted, standard-capacity magazines can be very useful for self-defense. This is especially true if a defender faces multiple attackers, an attacker is wearing heavy clothing or body armor, an attacker who is turbo-charged by methamphetamine or cocaine, or an attacker who poses an active threat from behind cover. In stressful circumstances, police as well as civilians often miss when firing a handgun even at close range, so having the extra rounds can be crucial.


It is important to consider the advantages a criminal has over his intended victims. The criminal has the element of surprise, whereas the victim is the one surprised. The criminal can decide at leisure what weaponry he will bring; whereas the victim must respond with what’s at hand at the moment of attack. A criminal can bring several guns, or lots of magazines; whereas the victim will usually have on hand, at most, a single defensive gun with only as much ammunition as is in that gun. Thus, legislation confining law-abiding victims to magazines of 10 or fewer magnifies the criminal’s advantage over his intended victim


Violent confrontations are unpredictable; for example, if a person is fighting against one or two perpetrators, he may not know if there is an additional, hidden attacker. Thus, defensive gun users need to keep a reserve of ammunition. So even though armed defenders do not usually fire more than 10 shots, reducing reserve capacity (e.g., from a standard 17-round magazine to a 10-round substitute) will reduce the number of defensive shots. Fewer shots fired at the attacker reduces the risk of injury to the attacker, and thereby raises the risk of injury to the victim.

Absolutely..

The persons who have the most need for actual high-capacity magazines are those who would have great difficulty changing a magazine — such as elderly persons or persons with disabilities. For an able-bodied person, changing a magazine only takes a few seconds.

See? You have no need for a high capacity magazine and would not be inconvenienced in the least

Let me finish you post for you....

Although one can quickly change magazines, persons being attacked by criminals will typically prefer not to spend even a few seconds for a magazine change. The stress of being attacked usually impedes fine motor skills, making it much more difficult to insert the magazine.38 That is why many semiautomatic handguns come factory-standard with a magazine of 11 to 20 rounds. Thus, a ban on magazines with a capacity of more than 10 rounds means a ban on some of the most common and most useful magazines purchased for purposes of recreational target practice and self-defense.

Why might someone need a factory-standard 17-round magazine for a common 9mm handgun? As noted, standard-capacity magazines can be very useful for self-defense. This is especially true if a defender faces multiple attackers, an attacker is wearing heavy clothing or body armor, an attacker who is turbo-charged by methamphetamine or cocaine, or an attacker who poses an active threat from behind cover. In stressful circumstances, police as well as civilians often miss when firing a handgun even at close range, so having the extra rounds can be crucial.

 

[rightwinger]

Everyone knows that three10 round magazines can be reloaded just as fast as a 30 round magazine and they weigh less and are less likely to jam

So who needs a 30 round magazine?

3 ten round mags are heavier than 1 30 round mag.

and the 30 round mags don't jam more than 10 round mags.

30 round mags have been standard capacity for decades

Any reasonable gun owner can load three ten round mags as quickly as he can shoot a 30 round mag

If he can't, looks like we have justification for banning that 30 round mag

Magazine size doesn't really matter. Never has never will.

There is no reason to limit magazines to 10 or less.

My carry gun is a Glock 19 it can accept a 15 round magazine but in my state only 10 round magazines are allowed. So instead of carrying my 9 mm with one 15 round magazine and one in the chamber I now carry a spare 10 round magazine for a total of 21 rounds so the magazine size limit actually results in people like me carrying more ammunition than I used to.

See how easy it is?

You have no need for a higher capacity magazine

Keep ignoring the points made by David Kopel......he is write, you understand that he is right.....so now you must troll...

Too long; Didn't Read

 

[2aguy]

3 ten round mags are heavier than 1 30 round mag.

and the 30 round mags don't jam more than 10 round mags.

30 round mags have been standard capacity for decades

Any reasonable gun owner can load three ten round mags as quickly as he can shoot a 30 round mag

If he can't, looks like we have justification for banning that 30 round mag

Magazine size doesn't really matter. Never has never will.

There is no reason to limit magazines to 10 or less.

My carry gun is a Glock 19 it can accept a 15 round magazine but in my state only 10 round magazines are allowed. So instead of carrying my 9 mm with one 15 round magazine and one in the chamber I now carry a spare 10 round magazine for a total of 21 rounds so the magazine size limit actually results in people like me carrying more ammunition than I used to.

See how easy it is?

You have no need for a higher capacity magazine

Keep ignoring the points made by David Kopel......he is write, you understand that he is right.....so now you must troll...

Too long; Didn't Read

Let me translate your post....

Begin translation:

You made points that made me look like an idiot...so now I will make jokes...

End Translation.