Anyone wanna debate Global Warming?

[CharlestonChad]

I'm curious as to if any of you guys/girls are non-believes that the Earths climate is changing. I'm just a marinebiology student, but I've done a lot of research on this and am a firm believer that the Earth is warming and that humans are having an impact.

Let the good times roll.

 

[Angel Heart]

Oh I believe it's changing... Just like it always has and always will. I think most of it is a lot of hot air and the popular thing to side with.

 

[Diuretic]

You won't get any argument from me. I'm voting for whoever will acknowledge human-influenced climate change and will do something about it and not simply deny it's happening. In fact in our forthcoming upper house (Senate) election I may vote Greens instead of my usual Labor just to make sure someone with an environmental voice gets into the upper house.

 

[CharlestonChad]

Oh I believe it's changing... Just like it always has and always will. I think most of it is a lot of hot air and the popular thing to side with.

What do you dispute in the research behind man-made global warming?

 

[Angel Heart]

Because I know that they tried to claim the same crap about global cooling 20 yrs ago. It's called hysteria. The scientific communtity isn't in agreement that it's man made. How about the fact that Mars has been heating up with us? Oh I know that damn rover we sent up there caused that. Maybe just maybe... this is all NATURAL!!!

But if you want to be an alarmist and fall for the hype... Go for it.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Because I know that they tried to claim the same crap about global cooling 20 yrs ago.

Yes. "A new Ice Age" was all the rage.

But a "new ice age" cant be twisted to support an anti-capitalism, anti-conumerism, anti-property rights agenda.

Environmentalists are like watermellons:
Green on the outside, Red on the inside.

 

[CharlestonChad]

Because I know that they tried to claim the same crap about global cooling 20 yrs ago. It's called hysteria. The scientific communtity isn't in agreement that it's man made. How about the fact that Mars has been heating up with us? Oh I know that damn rover we sent up there caused that. Maybe just maybe... this is all NATURAL!!!

But if you want to be an alarmist and fall for the hype... Go for it.

Mars heating up has been proven to have no correlation with Earth. This was a poor attempt to disprove mmGW, because it was quickly debunked. I don't even think the research made it past peer review.

 

[AllieBaba]

There's no hard evidence it's caused by man.

However, there's lots of evidence that the climate changes on a regular basis and always has.

I just watched a History channel show on this the other night. There was a mini-ice age in the 1300s which all but decimated the population. Population fluctuations are the norm...not some horrible occurrence caused by man (damn him).

 

[midcan5]

Arguing that man cannot or is not causing global warming is fascinating to anyone who witnessed the pollution of our rivers, lakes, and even ocean areas in the 60s and 70s. Dumping all sorts of waste caused major trouble. If we can pollute ocean areas, we certainly can pollute atmospheric areas. The streams died but eventually through the EPA and recognition of the problem most have come back to life and are safer.

Another interesting aspect to this debate is the knee jerk reply from the corporate righties, it is proof positive MSM is conservative and corporately owned when a topic that should be a concern of our future is simply denied rather than scientifically investigated.

 

[Angel Heart]

Mars heating up has been proven to have no correlation with Earth. This was a poor attempt to disprove mmGW, because it was quickly debunked. I don't even think the research made it past peer review.

And how is that possable. When it's the sun doing the heating up? The same sun that heats us. There's data to back up that the sun is creating all the heat we've had. There's even science to back me up on it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/56456.stm

Climate changes such as global warming may be due to changes in the sun rather than to the release of greenhouse gases on Earth.

Climatologists and astronomers speaking at the American Association for the Advancement of Science meeting in Philadelphia say the present warming may be unusual - but a mini ice age could soon follow.

The sun provides all the energy that drives our climate, but it is not the constant star it might seem.

Careful studies over the last 20 years show that its overall brightness and energy output increases slightly as sunspot activity rises to the peak of its 11-year cycle.

And individual cycles can be more or less active.

The sun is currently at its most active for 300 years.

That, say scientists in Philadelphia, could be a more significant cause of global warming than the emissions of greenhouse gases that are most often blamed.

The researchers point out that much of the half-a-degree rise in global temperature over the last 120 years occurred before 1940 - earlier than the biggest rise in greenhouse gas emissions.

Using ancient tree rings, they show that 17 out of 19 warm spells in the last 10,000 years coincided with peaks in solar activity.

They have also studied other sun-like stars and found that they spend significant periods without sunspots at all, so perhaps cool spells should be feared more than global warming.

The scientists do not pretend they can explain everything, nor do they say that attempts to reduce greenhouse gas emissions should be abandoned. But they do feel that understanding of our nearest star must be increased if the climate is to be understood.

I have more if needed.... LOTS more.

 

[AllieBaba]

Arguing that man cannot or is not causing global warming is fascinating to anyone who witnessed the pollution of our rivers, lakes, and even ocean areas in the 60s and 70s. Dumping all sorts of waste caused major trouble. If we can pollute ocean areas, we certainly can pollute atmospheric areas. The streams died but eventually through the EPA and recognition of the problem most have come back to life and are safer.

Another interesting aspect to this debate is the knee jerk reply from the corporate righties, it is proof positive MSM is conservative and corporately owned when a topic that should be a concern of our future is simply denied rather than scientifically investigated.

Nice theory, but the science doesn't bear it out. You'd think if we were responsible for it, it would be easy enough to prove.

The fact is, Mt. St. Helen's contributed more to global warming than anything we've ever done.

And below, I meant temp fluctuations, not pop fluctuations. Temperature fluctuations are the norm. And they aren't caused by man.

 

[actsnoblemartin]

my question to you, how do you solve the problem, without making it worse. My perspective is, we should not run around like a bunch of chickens with our heads cut off, but actually try to solve the problem in a common sense way

What would you say to me, somebody who truly doesnt care, about who is causing global warming, but cares more about how to stop it.

What do you dispute in the research behind man-made global warming?

 

[actsnoblemartin]

I think its some what ridiculous to argue over what is causing a problem, when we could all spend the same energy, and actually put our heads together and come up with a common sense solution to fix it.

Man may NOT have caused global warming, but he is definently contributing to it, by raising cattle, with cars, and with other things im sure.

So how about we just solve the problem

 

[CharlestonChad]

And how is that possable. When it's the sun doing the heating up? The same sun that heats us. There's data to back up that the sun is creating all the heat we've had. There's even science to back me up on it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/56456.stm



I have more if needed.... LOTS more.

Please post recent reports. The atmospheric and surface compositions are so much different between the two that it would be almost ignorant to compare the two.

my question to you, how do you solve the problem, without making it worse. My perspective is, we should not run around like a bunch of chickens with our heads cut off, but actually try to solve the problem in a common sense way

What would you say to me, somebody who truly doesnt care, about who is causing global warming, but cares more about how to stop it.

Well, we could decrease CO2 levels by increasing Iron concentration in the open ocean. A lack of iron results in less photosynthetic orgs. in open water. This isn't too practical though. We could also cut emissions, and let plants do the work for us regarding the excess we have created.

I'm not a climatologist, so if you're really interested in finding ways to cut back on mmGW, then talk to one at your local university or weather station.

 

[CharlestonChad]

I think its some what ridiculous to argue over what is causing a problem, when we could all spend the same energy, and actually put our heads together and come up with a common sense solution to fix it.

Man may NOT have caused global warming, but he is definently contributing to it, by raising cattle, with cars, and with other things im sure.

So how about we just solve the problem

We need to know what's causing the temp increases, because then we can learn how to stop that.

 

[M14 Shooter]

We need to know what's causing the temp increases, because then we can learn how to stop that.

Not necessarily. Indeed, not even probably.

The earth, over its ~5 billion year lifespan, has undergone innumerable climate changes. These changes are due to natural ocourances, and there's -nothing- that can be done to stop those. Should we learn that the temp rise is due to natural occourances (a perfectly possible scenario) then we can't do squat about it.

 

[actsnoblemartin]

but with all due respect, why not find out if the temperatures are increasing more rapidly then in the past, and do what we can to slow down what humans are doing to contribute to the problem.

We didnt have cars 100 years ago, for example, we could improve fuel economy

Not necessarily. Indeed, not even probably.

The earth, over its ~5 billion year lifespan, has undergone innumerable climate changes. These changes are due to natural ocourances, and there's -nothing- that can be done to stop those. Should we learn that the temp rise is due to natural occourances (a perfectly possible scenario) then we can't do squat about it.

 

[CharlestonChad]

Not necessarily. Indeed, not even probably.

The earth, over its ~5 billion year lifespan, has undergone innumerable climate changes. These changes are due to natural ocourances, and there's -nothing- that can be done to stop those. Should we learn that the temp rise is due to natural occourances (a perfectly possible scenario) then we can't do squat about it.

Please understand that the fact that we know about a climate change is because it leaves behind evidence taken from very very very long periods of time. Man's existence on earth, if compared to a complete calendar year, is equal to less than an hour. Change on earth occurs very slowly, excluding an impact from a foreign object. The increased Co2 levels increased at a rate we have never seen before, and we know that humans can increase Co2 levels. We also know that increasing CO2 will increase the greenhouse effect. Therefore, the IPCC has determined that Global Warming is man made.


M14Shooter, I believe we need to analyze the effects of going "green"; or in a more literal sense, becoming a society that utilizes resources that can be regenerated without harm to the environment.

If USA stops burning fossil fuels
1. That leads to revolution around the world, because most nations follow our lead.
2. We devastate the oil economies of our current enemies.
3. We prosper on a level not seen since the industrial revolution, since we would be the first to fully use renewable resources.
4. We breathe cleaner

There are more benefits, but those are the first that came to mind.

If we continue:
1. We are crippled once we run low on oil, basically ending this country as being a superpower.
2. The Middle East gains power and wealth
3. Shellfish populations continue to decline, due to carbon dumping in the ocean, which hurts biodiversity throughout the oceans. That also hurts humans in many ways.
4. If we are wrong, and emitting greenhouse gases are the cause then we're basically fucked b/c we would continue to ruin our land, water, and air. Making a self-extinction of the human race.

Those are just the changes in this country, not the world.

 

[actsnoblemartin]

I agree with everything you just said. We need to get off oil, we need to quit burying our head in the sand, and pretending the problem doesnt exist.

I think you hit the nail on the head.

As humans, lets be a part of the solution, not part of the problem.

Please understand that the fact that we know about a climate change is because it leaves behind evidence taken from very very very long periods of time. Man's existence on earth, if compared to a complete calendar year, is equal to less than an hour. Change on earth occurs very slowly, excluding an impact from a foreign object. The increased Co2 levels increased at a rate we have never seen before, and we know that humans can increase Co2 levels. We also know that increasing CO2 will increase the greenhouse effect. Therefore, the IPCC has determined that Global Warming is man made.


M14Shooter, I believe we need to analyze the effects of going "green"; or in a more literal sense, becoming a society that utilizes resources that can be regenerated without harm to the environment.

If USA stops burning fossil fuels
1. That leads to revolution around the world, because most nations follow our lead.
2. We devastate the oil economies of our current enemies.
3. We prosper on a level not seen since the industrial revolution, since we would be the first to fully use renewable resources.
4. We breathe cleaner

There are more benefits, but those are the first that came to mind.

If we continue:
1. We are crippled once we run low on oil, basically ending this country as being a superpower.
2. The Middle East gains power and wealth
3. Shellfish populations continue to decline, due to carbon dumping in the ocean, which hurts biodiversity throughout the oceans. That also hurts humans in many ways.
4. If we are wrong, and emitting greenhouse gases are the cause then we're basically fucked b/c we would continue to ruin our land, water, and air. Making a self-extinction of the human race.

Those are just the changes in this country, not the world.

 

[M14 Shooter]

but with all due respect, why not find out if the temperatures are increasing more rapidly then in the past, and do what we can to slow down what humans are doing to contribute to the problem.

Even if temps are increasing faster than in the past, that doesnt necessitate a human component in that increase. If there's o human component, then there's nothing we can do about it.