Anyone here NOT believe that the brain is genetically controlled like any other organ

[Ravi]

No offense, IanC, but plagiarism is both stupid and not a sign of intelligence. Maybe if you learn to think for yourself you wouldn't be so apt to let others think for you.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

Thousands of studies have shown that brain size shape and function are under heavy genetic control.

First, everything in your body is under heavy genetic control. That's what made those things: genes. Second, normal brains are all the same shape. Aside from abnormality, they all roughly look the same, and have the same major grooves.

I am willing to support my statements but I want to here something from you first. Why should I go through the work if you dont care and aren't even willing to specify what you disagree with?

because you made the claim. it's your responsibility to support it

As for the sources you're using, it appears you're misinterpreting them. You keep quoting this "twin studies" idea, for example. It's not talking about two different studies, it's referring to one study that examines the brains of genetically identical twins. All those differences it's listing are not from genetics (as genetics are the same between identical twins), but rather environmental factors. You've essentially just disproven your own point.

 

[IanC]

data are data. measurements are measurements.
Lewontin or Lysenko would say exactly the same thing.

Lewontin and Lysenko purposely ignored information available to them. Arthur Jensen, the leader in intelligence research, has systematically researched every area and discovered many more. There is no doubt that he is as honest and thorough as a scientist can humanly be. Those who use sophistry to concoct theories that sound good but are unsupported by evidence are the ones who need to be scrutinized. Gould comes to mind as another popular talking head who twisted facts, cherry picked data, and ignored new and superior information on this subject.

 

[froggy]

Thousands of studies have shown that brain size shape and function are under heavy genetic control. Not only that, but recent studies have shown that numerous genes have undergone significant selection pressure in just the last 5-10 thousand years, including ones that affect the brain. We are still evolving.
Why do people deny race, which is simply continental genetic clusters? Or that different races have brains that have evolved different size shape and function? Surely it would be unlikely that brains would be the only organ to evolve exactly the same all over the world?
Once differences in brain structure and function are accepted to some degree then it is much easier to explain the disparities in social functioning between the races.
I'm sure I will be called a racist for this but Occam's Razor demands that simple and factually confirmed reasoning be fully examined. I will be more than happy to bring citations to refute any logically argued differences of opinion.

tell us how the brain works, genius.

 

[AllieBaba]

Personally I find the progressive love affair with high intelligence is no more valid or commendable than the love affair of white supremecists with skin color.

 

[IanC]

No offense, IanC, but plagiarism is both stupid and not a sign of intelligence. Maybe if you learn to think for yourself you wouldn't be so apt to let others think for you.

plagiarism? hahaha. I dont think anyone thought that I wrote that.
why don't you respond to the information rather than make personal attacks?

 

[IanC]

they all roughly look the same

and horses look roughly the same as zebras.
I am unsure as to what you specifically want me to respond to

 

[Ravi]

No offense, IanC, but plagiarism is both stupid and not a sign of intelligence. Maybe if you learn to think for yourself you wouldn't be so apt to let others think for you.

plagiarism? hahaha. I dont think anyone thought that I wrote that.
why don't you respond to the information rather than make personal attacks?

ha ha...if you don't link it it is assumed you wrote it.

Why don't you tell us, in your own words and opinion, why you think intelligence is a factor of race

 

[SmarterThanHick]

hi there IanC. did you miss the below post? note the part where you disproved yourself.

Thousands of studies have shown that brain size shape and function are under heavy genetic control.

First, everything in your body is under heavy genetic control. That's what made those things: genes. Second, normal brains are all the same shape. Aside from abnormality, they all roughly look the same, and have the same major grooves.

I am willing to support my statements but I want to here something from you first. Why should I go through the work if you dont care and aren't even willing to specify what you disagree with?

because you made the claim. it's your responsibility to support it

As for the sources you're using, it appears you're misinterpreting them. You keep quoting this "twin studies" idea, for example. It's not talking about two different studies, it's referring to one study that examines the brains of genetically identical twins. All those differences it's listing are not from genetics (as genetics are the same between identical twins), but rather environmental factors. You've essentially just disproven your own point.

 

[IanC]

First, everything in your body is under heavy genetic control. That's what made those things: genes. Second, normal brains are all the same shape. Aside from abnormality, they all roughly look the same, and have the same major grooves.

anthropologists can identify the racial identity of a skull by its shape, but you seem to think that the brain that fits inside the skull is the same shape even if the skull shape is different.

 

[IanC]

ha ha...if you don't link it it is assumed you wrote it.

Why don't you tell us, in your own words and opinion, why you think intelligence is a factor of race

my post was a direct response to WD, he posted a definition, I posted another one.

I think racial differences in intelligence are real because they can be measured in many ways, both directly and indirectly. Why do you think there are no racial differences in intelligence, contrary to the evidence?

 

[IanC]

As for the sources you're using, it appears you're misinterpreting them. You keep quoting this "twin studies" idea, for example. It's not talking about two different studies, it's referring to one study that examines the brains of genetically identical twins. All those differences it's listing are not from genetics (as genetics are the same between identical twins), but rather environmental factors. You've essentially just disproven your own point.

I don't think you are understanding the studies or my comments about them. I apologize that I haven't been more clear in my thinking.
The studies show that identical twins are extremely alike in many behaviors, regardless of being raised in the same environment or not. Identical twins raised apart are more alike than fraternal twins raised together. Adult adoptees resemble their biological parents more closely than their adoptive parents even though they shared the same environment growing up. Is that more clear to you? We tend to think an individual's behavior is mostly dependant on environmental cues but twin studies show that genetics exert a lot more control than people assume. This is especially true once an individual is old enough to start molding his or her environment to their liking.

 

[William Joyce]

choose a specific area, explain your opinion, and I will respond.

You seem convinced that race plays a role in brain function. If that is correct, please provide whatever it is that proves this to your satisfaction.

Sure. The book "Race, Evolution and Behavior," by J. Philippe Rushton, is a comprehensive treatment of the studies providing a link between race and brain size.

 

[William Joyce]

Why don't you tell us, in your own words and opinion, why you think intelligence is a factor of race

The evidence is overwhelming. There's a whole LIBRARY of books establishing this point, all of which are written by scientists and academics in their field, and all of which are available on amazon.com. That's the PAPER evidence... the real-life evidence is all around you. Blacks' possession of an IQ that is 15 points lower, on average, than that of whites is evident everywhere you look.

You just don't want to SEE the evidence.

That's different from it not being there.

Race and intelligence is like "The Emperor's New Clothes", the story about the naked king that the town wants to say has a nice new outfit. Only one little boy says, "but wait... he doesn't have any clothes!" In taking the position that race and intelligence are not linked, you're just like one of the townspeople.

 

[editec]

Why don't you tell us, in your own words and opinion, why you think intelligence is a factor of race

The evidence is overwhelming. There's a whole LIBRARY of books establishing this point, all of which are written by scientists and academics in their field, and all of which are available on amazon.com. That's the PAPER evidence... the real-life evidence is all around you. Blacks' possession of an IQ that is 15 points lower, on average, than that of whites is evident everywhere you look.

You just don't want to SEE the evidence.

That's different from it not being there.

Race and intelligence is like "The Emperor's New Clothes", the story about the naked king that the town wants to say has a nice new outfit. Only one little boy says, "but wait... he doesn't have any clothes!" In taking the position that race and intelligence are not linked, you're just like one of the townspeople.

And Asians, on average 15 points higher than Whites like you and me, William. Likwise Jews and Navaho Indians ALSO score higher than Whites o average.

Are you ready to turn over control of you life to Asians, because of that, William?

No?

Well then, so what's your point for this discussion, exactly?

Merely a discussion of the role genetics plays on intelligence?

Yeah, it does. Assuming enviromentals don't screw up our brains, genetics is what determines IQ, without doubt.

Nobody denies that, do they?

So then what IS your point?

Shall we select our leaders based on IQ?

Shall we separate the people based on IQ?

I don't want to do that, and really, I doubt you do either. (I assume your IQ is fairly high, BTW)

I don't want to live in a society where I would mostly be surrounded by Asians and Jews and Navahos just because of my IQ.

I still like my fellow White folks even if they do't (on average) have the same IQ as me.

Intelligence, raw intelligence, really doesn't really count for much.

What really matters is what you do with it.

 

[AllieBaba]

I didn't know that about Navahos but I'm not surprised.

I wonder if there's a test to determine meanness as well, and to correlate it with intelligence?

 

[Ravi]

Actually, the data on Asians having higher IQs has been debunked.

 

[editec]

I didn't know that about Navahos but I'm not surprised.

I wonder if there's a test to determine meanness as well, and to correlate it with intelligence?

I doubt there's a correlation.

Saints and sinners come in all IQs.

 

[editec]

Actually, the data on Asians having higher IQs has been debunked.

Oh?

News to me.

Personally, I think the whole IQ issue is largely hockem, anyway.

 

[AllieBaba]

I didn't know that about Navahos but I'm not surprised.

I wonder if there's a test to determine meanness as well, and to correlate it with intelligence?

I doubt there's a correlation.

Saints and sinners come in all IQs.

I dunno....Asians are brutal warriors, still seem to have no problem killing off or deserting female babies (Chinese, at any rate) and Navajos are noted in the NDN community for being cold-hearted s.o.b.s when crossed. And that's saying something.

And if you look at the lack of humor, heartlessness and pettiness of those posters who claim high intelligence and consider intelligence a factor which should determine who has rights and who doesn't, it makes one wonder.