CDZ Any Government, no matter how large or small. . .

[Vastator]

Any Government, no matter how large or small has a legitimate role to play in equally protecting the Constitutional rights of all "persons" within it's jurisdiction, from the moment their rights and lives begin.

Agree or disagree?

Disagree...
Its duty is to protect the rights of the citizens that fund it. And to make sure all under its jurisdiction adhere to the laws of the land. Non citizens should not be entitled to the protections of our constitution. They are foreigners; here at our whim, and pleasure. As such they should be treated quite differently than citizens.

You can't treat foreigners differently from citizens, because you tax them the same way and you don't notify them of any difference before they come.

But we can. And we should. Foreigners arent our equals when on our soil, and the laws should reflect that. As long as we keep treating outsiders with such unwarranted equality; we'll continue to piss away our children's birthright.

Then you have to tell the foreigners what the deal is before they come. America has never been able to do that. And you would have to give them back their money too. America is not the worst offender though, Europe is, generally speaking.

I disagree. It would be their responsibility to educate themselves beore coming here. As for giving them money... No.

 

[anotherlife]

Any Government, no matter how large or small has a legitimate role to play in equally protecting the Constitutional rights of all "persons" within it's jurisdiction, from the moment their rights and lives begin.

Agree or disagree?

Disagree...
Its duty is to protect the rights of the citizens that fund it. And to make sure all under its jurisdiction adhere to the laws of the land. Non citizens should not be entitled to the protections of our constitution. They are foreigners; here at our whim, and pleasure. As such they should be treated quite differently than citizens.

You can't treat foreigners differently from citizens, because you tax them the same way and you don't notify them of any difference before they come.

But we can. And we should. Foreigners arent our equals when on our soil, and the laws should reflect that. As long as we keep treating outsiders with such unwarranted equality; we'll continue to piss away our children's birthright.

Then you have to tell the foreigners what the deal is before they come. America has never been able to do that. And you would have to give them back their money too. America is not the worst offender though, Europe is, generally speaking.

I disagree. It would be their responsibility to educate themselves beore coming here. As for giving them money... No.

Why would it be their responsibility? It can't be. For example, what would you think if a shop double charged to on something, but then when you want your money back, they say it was your responsibility not to get double.

 

[Vastator]

Disagree...
Its duty is to protect the rights of the citizens that fund it. And to make sure all under its jurisdiction adhere to the laws of the land. Non citizens should not be entitled to the protections of our constitution. They are foreigners; here at our whim, and pleasure. As such they should be treated quite differently than citizens.

You can't treat foreigners differently from citizens, because you tax them the same way and you don't notify them of any difference before they come.

But we can. And we should. Foreigners arent our equals when on our soil, and the laws should reflect that. As long as we keep treating outsiders with such unwarranted equality; we'll continue to piss away our children's birthright.

Then you have to tell the foreigners what the deal is before they come. America has never been able to do that. And you would have to give them back their money too. America is not the worst offender though, Europe is, generally speaking.

I disagree. It would be their responsibility to educate themselves beore coming here. As for giving them money... No.

Why would it be their responsibility? It can't be. For example, what would you think if a shop double charged to on something, but then when you want your money back, they say it was your responsibility not to get double.

You watch them ring it up. And you check your receipt. Simple. Its incumbent on any person to understand the laws and customs of a foreign place prior to arrival.

 

[rightwinger]

Any Government, no matter how large or small has a legitimate role to play in equally protecting the Constitutional rights of all "persons" within it's jurisdiction, from the moment their rights and lives begin.

Agree or disagree?

I disagree. The only obligation government has is to not violate the rights of its citizens. I can protect my own rights. I don’t need the government.

No you can't

Yes I can.

Tell me how you do it all by yourself

I protect my right to free speech for instance, by using it and voting for those who are advocates of free speech. I protect my right to own guns by my vote and supporting the NRA. I protect my right to vote in local elections by using it to vote for those who respect the constitution. I could go on through the bill of rights but by now even you can see the point.

The only thing the government has the responsibility and authority to do is not violate my rights.

And if it is denied....what is your regress?

The government protects your rights through it system of courts. Your vote is a form of government

 

[PredFan]

I disagree. The only obligation government has is to not violate the rights of its citizens. I can protect my own rights. I don’t need the government.

No you can't

Yes I can.

Tell me how you do it all by yourself

I protect my right to free speech for instance, by using it and voting for those who are advocates of free speech. I protect my right to own guns by my vote and supporting the NRA. I protect my right to vote in local elections by using it to vote for those who respect the constitution. I could go on through the bill of rights but by now even you can see the point.

The only thing the government has the responsibility and authority to do is not violate my rights.

And if it is denied....what is your regress?

The government protects your rights through it system of courts. Your vote is a form of government

My regress depends on the right violated. My vote influences and often restricts government. It is not part of government.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I disagree. The only obligation government has is to not violate the rights of its citizens. I can protect my own rights. I don’t need the government.

No you can't

Yes I can.

Tell me how you do it all by yourself

I protect my right to free speech for instance, by using it and voting for those who are advocates of free speech. I protect my right to own guns by my vote and supporting the NRA. I protect my right to vote in local elections by using it to vote for those who respect the constitution. I could go on through the bill of rights but by now even you can see the point.

The only thing the government has the responsibility and authority to do is not violate my rights.

And if it is denied....what is your regress?

The government protects your rights through it system of courts. Your vote is a form of government

Correct.

When citizens believe government has overreached or gone beyond its Constitutional authority, they have the right to seek relief through the political (democratic) process, to demand of elected officials to repeal laws offensive to the Constitution, or remove from office lawmakers who enact such measures.

And if no resolution is realized through the political process, citizens have the right to file suit in Federal court to have un-Constitutional measures invalidated.

 

[JoeB131]

Philosophically, I think fetuses at a certain point are people. The question I grapple with is at what “point” that happens. It’s a grey area that I am not comfortable with, and most people I’ve ever talked with also aren’t comfortable with.. hence the controversy with abortion.

Well, they shouldn't be. I think doctors and patients are smart enough to draw the line as to what appropriate treatment is. Nobody is having an abortion past the point of viability (20 weeks) unless something has gone seriously wrong with the pregnancy.

IUDs, as well as what are marketed as morning after pills, actually prevent fertilization; so I don’t think they are particularly relevant to this discussion.

They are when you are dealing with people like the OP who truly believe that life begins at conception.

But talking about “throwing ladies in prison” is implicitly relevant because charges of “murder” often do come up in these discussions. For example, if a woman is raped and decides to take an “abortion pill” a week later, did she murder and innocent person? In cold scientific terms, she destroyed a blastocyst of around 200 mostly undifferentiated cells. Philosophically, I don’t view that as a “person” so I would never accuse the rape victim of murder.

Neither do I, but again, when you are talking to the hard-core anti-choicers, they don't make that distinction. the problem is, even before Roe v. Wade, women were never thrown in prison and doctors who performed the abortions rarely were, unless they made some horrible mistake and killed or maimed the woman.

But the thing is, when I try to nail down how they are going to enforce these laws they are trying to get, they always go wobbly. I mean, yeah, you'll have the occassional hard core misogynist who will want to do horrible things to these ladies, but most of them hem and haw about how the woman is a victim, too.

 

[anotherlife]

You can't treat foreigners differently from citizens, because you tax them the same way and you don't notify them of any difference before they come.

But we can. And we should. Foreigners arent our equals when on our soil, and the laws should reflect that. As long as we keep treating outsiders with such unwarranted equality; we'll continue to piss away our children's birthright.

Then you have to tell the foreigners what the deal is before they come. America has never been able to do that. And you would have to give them back their money too. America is not the worst offender though, Europe is, generally speaking.

I disagree. It would be their responsibility to educate themselves beore coming here. As for giving them money... No.

Why would it be their responsibility? It can't be. For example, what would you think if a shop double charged to on something, but then when you want your money back, they say it was your responsibility not to get double.

You watch them ring it up. And you check your receipt. Simple. Its incumbent on any person to understand the laws and customs of a foreign place prior to arrival.

No. My shop example was a simplification, to show that nobody expects what is not common sense. However, laws are usually not by common sense. Also, they are hugely complex. And even common sense can vary from country to country. For example, how many Mexicans would you expect to do your research of US law before arrival? That is if they even learn English for it first.

 

[Vastator]

But we can. And we should. Foreigners arent our equals when on our soil, and the laws should reflect that. As long as we keep treating outsiders with such unwarranted equality; we'll continue to piss away our children's birthright.

Then you have to tell the foreigners what the deal is before they come. America has never been able to do that. And you would have to give them back their money too. America is not the worst offender though, Europe is, generally speaking.

I disagree. It would be their responsibility to educate themselves beore coming here. As for giving them money... No.

Why would it be their responsibility? It can't be. For example, what would you think if a shop double charged to on something, but then when you want your money back, they say it was your responsibility not to get double.

You watch them ring it up. And you check your receipt. Simple. Its incumbent on any person to understand the laws and customs of a foreign place prior to arrival.

No. My shop example was a simplification, to show that nobody expects what is not common sense. However, laws are usually not by common sense. Also, they are hugely complex. And even common sense can vary from country to country. For example, how many Mexicans would you expect to do your research of US law before arrival? That is if they even learn English for it first.

That should be their problem when faced with the results of their ignorance. When enough people start paying the price; word will get out.

 

[anotherlife]

Then you have to tell the foreigners what the deal is before they come. America has never been able to do that. And you would have to give them back their money too. America is not the worst offender though, Europe is, generally speaking.

I disagree. It would be their responsibility to educate themselves beore coming here. As for giving them money... No.

Why would it be their responsibility? It can't be. For example, what would you think if a shop double charged to on something, but then when you want your money back, they say it was your responsibility not to get double.

You watch them ring it up. And you check your receipt. Simple. Its incumbent on any person to understand the laws and customs of a foreign place prior to arrival.

No. My shop example was a simplification, to show that nobody expects what is not common sense. However, laws are usually not by common sense. Also, they are hugely complex. And even common sense can vary from country to country. For example, how many Mexicans would you expect to do your research of US law before arrival? That is if they even learn English for it first.

That should be their problem when faced with the results of their ignorance. When enough people start paying the price; word will get out.

That is how Hitler was hiding his concentration camps, and Stalin was hiding his gulags. People didn't know, traveled in and took jobs, then later they were just simply interned. Especially the Soviet Union did this. Why do you think that the USA should do this too?

 

[Vastator]

I disagree. It would be their responsibility to educate themselves beore coming here. As for giving them money... No.

Why would it be their responsibility? It can't be. For example, what would you think if a shop double charged to on something, but then when you want your money back, they say it was your responsibility not to get double.

You watch them ring it up. And you check your receipt. Simple. Its incumbent on any person to understand the laws and customs of a foreign place prior to arrival.

No. My shop example was a simplification, to show that nobody expects what is not common sense. However, laws are usually not by common sense. Also, they are hugely complex. And even common sense can vary from country to country. For example, how many Mexicans would you expect to do your research of US law before arrival? That is if they even learn English for it first.

That should be their problem when faced with the results of their ignorance. When enough people start paying the price; word will get out.

That is how Hitler was hiding his concentration camps, and Stalin was hiding his gulags. People didn't know, traveled in and took jobs, then later they were just simply interned. Especially the Soviet Union did this. Why do you think that the USA should do this too?

Lame, leading, end sentence...

 

[anotherlife]

Why would it be their responsibility? It can't be. For example, what would you think if a shop double charged to on something, but then when you want your money back, they say it was your responsibility not to get double.

You watch them ring it up. And you check your receipt. Simple. Its incumbent on any person to understand the laws and customs of a foreign place prior to arrival.

No. My shop example was a simplification, to show that nobody expects what is not common sense. However, laws are usually not by common sense. Also, they are hugely complex. And even common sense can vary from country to country. For example, how many Mexicans would you expect to do your research of US law before arrival? That is if they even learn English for it first.

That should be their problem when faced with the results of their ignorance. When enough people start paying the price; word will get out.

That is how Hitler was hiding his concentration camps, and Stalin was hiding his gulags. People didn't know, traveled in and took jobs, then later they were just simply interned. Especially the Soviet Union did this. Why do you think that the USA should do this too?

Lame, leading, end sentence...

You are a socialist. I can't think of anything worse than that.

 

[Vastator]

You watch them ring it up. And you check your receipt. Simple. Its incumbent on any person to understand the laws and customs of a foreign place prior to arrival.

No. My shop example was a simplification, to show that nobody expects what is not common sense. However, laws are usually not by common sense. Also, they are hugely complex. And even common sense can vary from country to country. For example, how many Mexicans would you expect to do your research of US law before arrival? That is if they even learn English for it first.

That should be their problem when faced with the results of their ignorance. When enough people start paying the price; word will get out.

That is how Hitler was hiding his concentration camps, and Stalin was hiding his gulags. People didn't know, traveled in and took jobs, then later they were just simply interned. Especially the Soviet Union did this. Why do you think that the USA should do this too?

Lame, leading, end sentence...

You are a socialist. I can't think of anything worse than that.

You're a retard. I'm as far from a socialist as one can get....

 

[TheGreenHornet]

Any Government, no matter how large or small has a legitimate role to play in equally protecting the Constitutional rights of all "persons" within it's jurisdiction, from the moment their rights and lives begin.

Agree or disagree?

Why do you claim life begins?

 

[TheGreenHornet]

Any Government, no matter how large or small has a legitimate role to play in equally protecting the Constitutional rights of all "persons" within it's jurisdiction, from the moment their rights and lives begin.

Agree or disagree?

Agree, now here's the problem. Pregnancy is not a zero risk proposition, so which life takes precedence?Can you demand one person to risk her live in protection of another live?

If a woman does not want to take the reisk of a pregnancy...it is very easy to avoid. Women that do not want a baby but get pregnant is indicative of someone who is extremely irresponsible and willing to kill a life form because she was too lazy or too stupid to use protection.

 

[eflatminor]

Any Government, no matter how large or small has a legitimate role to play in equally protecting the Constitutional rights of all "persons" within it's jurisdiction, from the moment their rights and lives begin.

Agree or disagree?

You're error is in assuming there must be a Constitution. Not so said the anti-federalists. Not so say I.

"It is curious that people tend to regard government as a quasi-divine, selfless, Santa Claus organization. Government was constructed neither for ability nor for the exercise of loving care; government was built for the use of force and for necessarily demagogic appeals for votes. If individuals do not know their own interests in many cases, they are free to turn to private experts for guidance. It is absurd to say that they will be served better by a coercive, demagogic apparatus.”

 

[Chuz Life]

Any Government, no matter how large or small has a legitimate role to play in equally protecting the Constitutional rights of all "persons" within it's jurisdiction, from the moment their rights and lives begin.

Agree or disagree?

Why do you claim life begins?

Why do you claim it doesn't?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Any Government, no matter how large or small has a legitimate role to play in equally protecting the Constitutional rights of all "persons" within it's jurisdiction, from the moment their rights and lives begin.

Agree or disagree?

Agree, now here's the problem. Pregnancy is not a zero risk proposition, so which life takes precedence?Can you demand one person to risk her live in protection of another live?

If a woman does not want to take the reisk of a pregnancy...it is very easy to avoid. Women that do not want a baby but get pregnant is indicative of someone who is extremely irresponsible and willing to kill a life form because she was too lazy or too stupid to use protection.

In your subjective opinion.

But it is neither the role nor responsibility of government to compel citizens to conform to subjective opinion or religious dogma.

That citizens might exercise their fundamental rights – in this case the right to privacy – in a manner some might perceive as ‘stupid’ or ‘irresponsible’ doesn’t warrant violating those fundamental rights.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

You watch them ring it up. And you check your receipt. Simple. Its incumbent on any person to understand the laws and customs of a foreign place prior to arrival.

No. My shop example was a simplification, to show that nobody expects what is not common sense. However, laws are usually not by common sense. Also, they are hugely complex. And even common sense can vary from country to country. For example, how many Mexicans would you expect to do your research of US law before arrival? That is if they even learn English for it first.

That should be their problem when faced with the results of their ignorance. When enough people start paying the price; word will get out.

That is how Hitler was hiding his concentration camps, and Stalin was hiding his gulags. People didn't know, traveled in and took jobs, then later they were just simply interned. Especially the Soviet Union did this. Why do you think that the USA should do this too?

Lame, leading, end sentence...

You are a socialist. I can't think of anything worse than that.

Fascists are clearly the worst.

 

[buttercup]

fetuses still aren't people.

A person is simply a human being. That is exactly what a pre-born baby is, you are just discriminating against age and location.

Human life does not begin the moment the baby's head pops out of the birth canal. There are different stages of human life, and in each one of those stages you have a human being, a person. Starting from the moment a person comes into existence, until the moment they die.