Another perspective

[IM2]

......

When I married my husband, the first thing he said to me was “Listen.” And I did. I listened to his experiences, his point of view, his insights. Years later I’m still listening and learning......

And vice versa?

I'm sure he listens but what you need to understand as a white man is this, things have not been the same for blacks and whites. Furthermore we have heard learned and have been educated on he white story. But this is another example of white fragility. Let's make it about me, my feelings are more important than . those of the person of color trying to explain how they feel.

 

[Unkotare]

So, what is it then?

[re:anti-black violence]

Where is it?

XXXX -- Mod Edit for Copyright Fair Use. IM2
Let’s just get this out of the way: The fact is, if you’re white in America, you’ve likely said, thought, or done something racist. It’s just a fact. We were all brought up in a white supremacist culture. Not only do we passively participate in institutionalized racism as white people, we benefit from it! To shy away from that is to put oneself (yet again) above people of color.

IF you want to be fair, and I know that is your ultimate goal, you have to add blacks, Asians, Native Americans, and virtually every other race and nationality are prejudiced in favor of people like themselves.

"Let's just get this out of the way: The fact is, if you're black in America, you've likely said, thought, or done something racist. It's just a fact."

Yeah lets just get this out of the way. Blacks react to the racism we get. Things are not exactly the same by race Markle. If we think a certain way about whites, it is because of what whites have continually done to us for almost 400 years. Whites always fail to understand this, it'.s like whites choose to have amnesia.

So what you are doing is exactly what the writer describes as it pertains to white fragility. So if we want to be fair we try understanding how blacks, Asians, native Americans and others feel about the consistent racism they have gotten from whites instead of trying to say that we all have thought racist things like we all have he same experiences.

Think about it, if I think bad things about whites after I read some of the stuff from the majority of whites posting here, is it because I am thinking racist thoughts? This is how many whites try making false equivalences with racism.

I thought you said there was no such thing as race?

 

[Unkotare]

......

When I married my husband, the first thing he said to me was “Listen.” And I did. I listened to his experiences, his point of view, his insights. Years later I’m still listening and learning......

And vice versa?

I'm sure he listens but what you need to understand ....

Was I talking to you? STFU

 

[Paul Essien]

A while guy buying alcohol when he's underage doesn't put me in a wheelchair or a coffin. A bullet from a negro does. Nobody said whites don't do crime, but it's the negroes that stupidly do the crimes that don't benefit anyone and cause bodily harm. It's called violent crime. Are you seriously comparing illegal DVDs and tobacco to violent crime? Even speeding is more dangerous.

Are you saying that white people have been less violent throughout history than black people ?
Are you saying that black people have killed more white people throughout history than white people have killed black people ?

 

[impuretrash]

......

When I married my husband, the first thing he said to me was “Listen.” And I did. I listened to his experiences, his point of view, his insights. Years later I’m still listening and learning......

And vice versa?

I'm sure he listens but what you need to understand as a white man is this, things have not been the same for blacks and whites. Furthermore we have heard learned and have been educated on he white story. But this is another example of white fragility. Let's make it about me, my feelings are more important than . those of the person of color trying to explain how they feel.

Fuck your feelings.

 

[Paul Essien]

Couldn't have been the liver damage.

What it did show is that white people take everything for granted. When he started to get the black treatment, it was a WHOA! Moment for him. I would not be surprised if he experience some sort of PSTD trauma from the clear juxtaposition of treatment he received just by changing his skin tone.

And this is why white people need a system of advantages because white people believe can't compete with black people on an even keel.

 

[BlackSand]

Well the OP is about what the professor said. And again you are exhibiting the very behavior described. Listening is not telling me how I need to read Thomas Sowell. What you have said is that you won't give credence to what blacks are saying and that you won't enable it because it is, to paraphrase you, bullshit. Now that's exactly what the professor is talking about.

I didn't ask if you think I am exhibiting the behavior described ... I asked you how you came to that conclusion.
If you are attempting to suggest that giving you alternative opportunities to explore different points of view (Thomas Sowell) is something you are not interested in ... Then I can hear you and can understand that.

I didn't apply nor remove any credence associated with you sharing your feelings ... Instead I engaged your responses and enabled the ability for us to have a discussion.
You still haven't explained how my action reflect the principles discussed in the OP ... And the "bullshit" part is more squarely centered on the fact you haven't been able to accurately reflect any of what you perceive to be my activities.

I guess if you are trying to express your feelings ... And that you would just like to paint me as some kind of evil white person ... Well, I hear you.
Your failure to provide proof or see things any other way, probably has more to do with your intent than my understanding.

To wit ... I can only say ... You have not proven your or the professor's case in the matter.
But look ... If it helps you think that I suffer from your fairytale white fragility ... It isn't really going to help you or damage me in any way.

If you care to further pursue fruitless endeavors ... I am willing to enable your folly.

.

 

[IM2]

So, what is it then?

[re:anti-black violence]

Where is it?

XXXX -- Mod Edit for Copyright Fair Use. IM2
Let’s just get this out of the way: The fact is, if you’re white in America, you’ve likely said, thought, or done something racist. It’s just a fact. We were all brought up in a white supremacist culture. Not only do we passively participate in institutionalized racism as white people, we benefit from it! To shy away from that is to put oneself (yet again) above people of color.

IF you want to be fair, and I know that is your ultimate goal, you have to add blacks, Asians, Native Americans, and virtually every other race and nationality are prejudiced in favor of people like themselves.

"Let's just get this out of the way: The fact is, if you're black in America, you've likely said, thought, or done something racist. It's just a fact."

Yeah lets just get this out of the way. Blacks react to the racism we get. Things are not exactly the same by race Markle. If we think a certain way about whites, it is because of what whites have continually done to us for almost 400 years. Whites always fail to understand this, it'.s like whites choose to have amnesia.

So what you are doing is exactly what the writer describes as it pertains to white fragility. So if we want to be fair we try understanding how blacks, Asians, native Americans and others feel about the consistent racism they have gotten from whites instead of trying to say that we all have thought racist things like we all have he same experiences.

Think about it, if I think bad things about whites after I read some of the stuff from the majority of whites posting here, is it because I am thinking racist thoughts? This is how many whites try making false equivalences with racism.

I thought you said there was no such thing as race?

I really don't think you want to try this with me son. Race is an artificial construct but as long as people are going to talk using race then we will use race in examples. Understand? Now I know you call yourself dong something but what you are about to do is make yourself answer a whole bunch of questions whites like you never answer,

 

[IM2]

Well the OP is about what the professor said. And again you are exhibiting the very behavior described. Listening is not telling me how I need to read Thomas Sowell. What you have said is that you won't give credence to what blacks are saying and that you won't enable it because it is, to paraphrase you, bullshit. Now that's exactly what the professor is talking about.

I didn't ask if you think I am exhibiting the behavior described ... I asked you how you came to that conclusion.
If you are attempting to suggest that giving you alternative opportunities to explore different points of view (Thomas Sowell) is something you are not interested in ... Then I can hear you and can understand that.

I didn't apply nor remove any credence associated with you sharing your feelings ... Instead I engaged your responses and enabled the ability for us to have a discussion.
You still haven't explained how my action reflect the principles discussed in the OP ... And the "bullshit" part is more squarely centered on the fact you haven't been able to accurately reflect any of what you perceive to be my activities.

I guess if you are trying to express your feelings ... And that you would just like to paint me as some kind of evil white person ... Well, I hear you.
Your failure to provide proof or see things any other way, probably has more to do with your intent than my understanding.

To wit ... I can only say ... You have not proven your or the professor's case in the matter.
But look ... If it helps you think that I suffer from your fairytale white fragility ... It isn't really going to help you or damage me in any way.

If you care to further pursue fruitless endeavors ... I am willing to enable your folly.

.

I have told your stupid ass 100 times how I came to my conclusion. You telling me tp explore a point of view according to you as a white person is exactly what the professor talks about as part of white fragility. Instead of accepting my experience you feel you need to tell me how I need to see a different point of view that is exactly what white fragility is. I know what Sowells point of view is and it is one supported by those like you because it ignores the racism whites have implemented by law and policy and he damages created to place blame on blacks. So then are you listening to my experience or are you suggesting how I should see things from your perspective? You are doing the second which is not listening and it is making this about what YOU think and how I should see things as YOU think hey are. Why do I as a black man, need to hear what another black man says in order to come to a belief of how racism has affected me? You have exhibited he very behaviors the professor talks about. You still are doing this. You have been told this more than once. So if this is above your head and you cannot understand, maybe you need to do the research. Maybe YOU need to look at things from a different point of view.

 

[BlackSand]

I have told your stupid ass 100 times how I came to my conclusion. You telling me tp explore a point of view according to you as a white person is exactly what the professor talks about as part of white fragility. Instead of accepting my experience you feel you need to tell me how I need to see a different point of view that is exactly what white fragility is. I know what Sowells point of view is and it is one supported by those like you because it ignores the racism whites have implemented by law and policy and he damages created to place blame on blacks. So then are you listening to my experience or are you suggesting how I should see things from your perspective? You are doing the second which is not listening and it is making this about what YOU think and how I should see things as YOU think hey are. Why do I as a black man, need to hear what another black man says in order to come to a belief of how racism has affected me? You have exhibited he very behaviors the professor talks about. You still are doing this. You have been told this more than once. So if this is above your head and you cannot understand, maybe you need to do the research. Maybe YOU need to look at things from a different point of view.

You told me a lot of things ... Your inability to accurately connect them to principles discussed the OP is not a question of my intelligence.

I haven't instructed you to do anything ... Nor have I dismissed your continued failure to make a coherent point or argument.
It is not my shortcoming that you have the misconception that I am required to accept the utter garbage you spout as a condition of listening.
Furthermore ... If you think my willingness to engage in conversations about race and your experiences somehow proves the principles in the OP ... You're a retard.
If anything you produced provides you with the opportunity to talk over my head ... It is only because you are standing on a pile of bullshit.


The simple expectation that whatever you say should go unchallenged and be accepted as gospel without exception ... Is a far more appropriate display of your fragility ... Not mine.

.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Couldn't have been the liver damage.

What it did show is that white people take everything for granted. When he started to get the black treatment, it was a WHOA! Moment for him. I would not be surprised if he experience some sort of PSTD trauma from the clear juxtaposition of treatment he received just by changing his skin tone.

And this is why white people need a system of advantages because white people believe can't compete with black people on an even keel.

Oh noes, how will we Whitey's compete with Blacks?
I mean no one seems very concerned about Asian success here as an issue, but it must be your Black potential for success we fear, LOL sure.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

A while guy buying alcohol when he's underage doesn't put me in a wheelchair or a coffin. A bullet from a negro does. Nobody said whites don't do crime, but it's the negroes that stupidly do the crimes that don't benefit anyone and cause bodily harm. It's called violent crime. Are you seriously comparing illegal DVDs and tobacco to violent crime? Even speeding is more dangerous.

Are you saying that white people have been less violent throughout history than black people ?
Are you saying that black people have killed more white people throughout history than white people have killed black people ?

Well, it was a little harder to kill many without guns....

 

[Paul Essien]

Oh noes, how will we Whitey's compete with Blacks?
I mean no one seems very concerned about Asian success here as an issue, but it must be your Black potential for success we fear, LOL sure.

I always find it funny how the people who talk about successful Asian people are doing are never Asian people themselves.

Why is that ?

Asian people have been allowed by the white supremacist to so called succeed. We see what happens with North Korea when Asian countries try to break free from white supremacy.

Plus Asian men are not as much of threat genetically as black men.

Black men threaten white male masculinity

That's why you get many white supremacists who marry and breed with Asian women. They'll take a half Asian-half white, Keanu Reeves looking guy over and half black-half white Barack Obama all day.

 

[BlackSand]

I always find it funny how the people who talk about successful Asian people are doing are never Asian people themselves.

Why is that ?

Asian people have been allowed by the white supremacist to so called succeed. We see what happens with North Korea when Asian countries try to break free from white supremacy.

Plus Asian men are not as much of threat genetically as black men.

Black men threaten white male masculinity

That's why you get many white supremacists who marry and breed with Asian women. They'll take a half Asian-half white, Keanu Reeves looking guy over and half black-half white Barack Obama all day.

Asians tend to find success through methods that are not accurately portrayed in your points above.
I am certain there are exceptions, But there is a common similarity first generation Asian immigrants experience through applied direction and sacrifice.

It is not uncommon for Asian immigrant families to actively select one member of the family that is chosen to succeed.
The rest of the family is often forced into a support role, regardless the sacrifice that means.
One sibling will be chosen to attend college ... While another may be chosen to manage the counter at the family grocery store (just an example).

Through the generations of the same applied principles ... A larger section of the extended family is "allowed" to succeed.
That application of principles often allows for a greater overall exponential success rate.

The practice can be brutal and grueling ... Those not chosen are forced to accept their "place".
Those that are chosen are expected to meet certain measures of excellence as a condition of their position.

.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Oh noes, how will we Whitey's compete with Blacks?
I mean no one seems very concerned about Asian success here as an issue, but it must be your Black potential for success we fear, LOL sure.

I always find it funny how the people who talk about successful Asian people are doing are never Asian people themselves.

Why is that ?

Asian people have been allowed by the white supremacist to so called succeed. We see what happens with North Korea when Asian countries try to break free from white supremacy.

Plus Asian men are not as much of threat genetically as black men.

Black men threaten white male masculinity

That's why you get many white supremacists who marry and breed with Asian women. They'll take a half Asian-half white, Keanu Reeves looking guy over and half black-half white Barack Obama all day.

A lot of the older generations didn't / don't like Asians because of Japan in WW2, the Korean War, or the Vietnam War. (I can't blame them)

So, I think Asians themselves have succeeded by their own devices, in the U.S.A, many have become hyper-educated, and hard-working.

 

[IM2]

Couldn't have been the liver damage.

What it did show is that white people take everything for granted. When he started to get the black treatment, it was a WHOA! Moment for him. I would not be surprised if he experience some sort of PSTD trauma from the clear juxtaposition of treatment he received just by changing his skin tone.

And this is why white people need a system of advantages because white people believe can't compete with black people on an even keel.

Oh noes, how will we Whitey's compete with Blacks?
I mean no one seems very concerned about Asian success here as an issue, but it must be your Black potential for success we fear, LOL sure.

What Asian success?

Debunking the “Model Asian” Myth: Five Ways Asian-Americans Still Face Discrimination

In his 2011 New York Magazine essay Paper Tigers, Wesley Yang delivered one of the most compelling meditations on the “Bamboo Ceiling”—”an invisible barrier that maintains a pyramidal racial structure throughout corporate America, with lots of Asians at junior levels, quite a few in middle management, and virtually none in the higher reaches of leadership.” Look no further than the Committee of 100, a national Chinese American leadership organization, for evidence of how Asians—who comprise approximately 5 percent of the US population—are drastically underrepresented in leadership positions. Their 2004 Asian Pacific American Corporate Board Report Card highlighted that Asians filled a paltry one percent of the Fortune 500 corporate director seats in the US, and their 2005 Asian Pacific American Higher Education Report Card revealed that only 2.5 percent of the positions of president, provost, and chancellor were held by Asians.

Further surprising to most Americans, a 2005 Gallup Poll showed that Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders reported more work discrimination than any other group (30 to 31 percent). This is a finding the Center for Work-Life Study confirmed in their 2011 report on Asian America, where “Twenty-five percent of Asians feel that they face workplace discrimination because of their ethnicity, while only 8 percent of African-Americans, 9 percent of Hispanics and 4 percent of Caucasians believe this to be the case.” Sadly, the 2012 University of Toronto study “Prescriptive Stereotypes and Workplace Consequences for East Asians in North America” showed that participants disliked dominant Asians in the workplace more than non-dominant Asians, suggesting Americans still prefer their Asian coworkers to fit the stereotype of a meek follower who “stays in their place.”

But this is nothing new. In their 1990 paper “Asian-American Educational Achievements: A Phenomenon in Search of an Explanation,” authors Stanley Sue and Sumie Okazaki early on proposed “that Asian Americans perceive, and have experienced, restrictions in upward mobility in careers or jobs that are unrelated to education

Debunking the “Model Asian” Myth: Five Ways Asian-Americans Still Face Discrimination | Hippo Reads

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Couldn't have been the liver damage.

What it did show is that white people take everything for granted. When he started to get the black treatment, it was a WHOA! Moment for him. I would not be surprised if he experience some sort of PSTD trauma from the clear juxtaposition of treatment he received just by changing his skin tone.

And this is why white people need a system of advantages because white people believe can't compete with black people on an even keel.

Oh noes, how will we Whitey's compete with Blacks?
I mean no one seems very concerned about Asian success here as an issue, but it must be your Black potential for success we fear, LOL sure.

What Asian success?

Debunking the “Model Asian” Myth: Five Ways Asian-Americans Still Face Discrimination

In his 2011 New York Magazine essay Paper Tigers, Wesley Yang delivered one of the most compelling meditations on the “Bamboo Ceiling”—”an invisible barrier that maintains a pyramidal racial structure throughout corporate America, with lots of Asians at junior levels, quite a few in middle management, and virtually none in the higher reaches of leadership.” Look no further than the Committee of 100, a national Chinese American leadership organization, for evidence of how Asians—who comprise approximately 5 percent of the US population—are drastically underrepresented in leadership positions. Their 2004 Asian Pacific American Corporate Board Report Card highlighted that Asians filled a paltry one percent of the Fortune 500 corporate director seats in the US, and their 2005 Asian Pacific American Higher Education Report Card revealed that only 2.5 percent of the positions of president, provost, and chancellor were held by Asians.

Further surprising to most Americans, a 2005 Gallup Poll showed that Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders reported more work discrimination than any other group (30 to 31 percent). This is a finding the Center for Work-Life Study confirmed in their 2011 report on Asian America, where “Twenty-five percent of Asians feel that they face workplace discrimination because of their ethnicity, while only 8 percent of African-Americans, 9 percent of Hispanics and 4 percent of Caucasians believe this to be the case.” Sadly, the 2012 University of Toronto study “Prescriptive Stereotypes and Workplace Consequences for East Asians in North America” showed that participants disliked dominant Asians in the workplace more than non-dominant Asians, suggesting Americans still prefer their Asian coworkers to fit the stereotype of a meek follower who “stays in their place.”

But this is nothing new. In their 1990 paper “Asian-American Educational Achievements: A Phenomenon in Search of an Explanation,” authors Stanley Sue and Sumie Okazaki early on proposed “that Asian Americans perceive, and have experienced, restrictions in upward mobility in careers or jobs that are unrelated to education

Debunking the “Model Asian” Myth: Five Ways Asian-Americans Still Face Discrimination | Hippo Reads

Regardless, Asians on average have higher incomes than Whites in the U.S.A.
Therefor they are an example of success.

 

[IM2]

There is no Asian success, This is a lie whites have made up in order to try shutting up those of color who fight their continuing racism

Debunking the “Model Asian” Myth: Five Ways Asian-Americans Still Face Discrimination | Hippo Reads

 

[Correll]

Couldn't have been the liver damage.

What it did show is that white people take everything for granted. When he started to get the black treatment, it was a WHOA! Moment for him. I would not be surprised if he experience some sort of PSTD trauma from the clear juxtaposition of treatment he received just by changing his skin tone.

And this is why white people need a system of advantages because white people believe can't compete with black people on an even keel.

Oh noes, how will we Whitey's compete with Blacks?
I mean no one seems very concerned about Asian success here as an issue, but it must be your Black potential for success we fear, LOL sure.

What Asian success?

Debunking the “Model Asian” Myth: Five Ways Asian-Americans Still Face Discrimination

In his 2011 New York Magazine essay Paper Tigers, Wesley Yang delivered one of the most compelling meditations on the “Bamboo Ceiling”—”an invisible barrier that maintains a pyramidal racial structure throughout corporate America, with lots of Asians at junior levels, quite a few in middle management, and virtually none in the higher reaches of leadership.” Look no further than the Committee of 100, a national Chinese American leadership organization, for evidence of how Asians—who comprise approximately 5 percent of the US population—are drastically underrepresented in leadership positions. Their 2004 Asian Pacific American Corporate Board Report Card highlighted that Asians filled a paltry one percent of the Fortune 500 corporate director seats in the US, and their 2005 Asian Pacific American Higher Education Report Card revealed that only 2.5 percent of the positions of president, provost, and chancellor were held by Asians.

Further surprising to most Americans, a 2005 Gallup Poll showed that Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders reported more work discrimination than any other group (30 to 31 percent). This is a finding the Center for Work-Life Study confirmed in their 2011 report on Asian America, where “Twenty-five percent of Asians feel that they face workplace discrimination because of their ethnicity, while only 8 percent of African-Americans, 9 percent of Hispanics and 4 percent of Caucasians believe this to be the case.” Sadly, the 2012 University of Toronto study “Prescriptive Stereotypes and Workplace Consequences for East Asians in North America” showed that participants disliked dominant Asians in the workplace more than non-dominant Asians, suggesting Americans still prefer their Asian coworkers to fit the stereotype of a meek follower who “stays in their place.”

But this is nothing new. In their 1990 paper “Asian-American Educational Achievements: A Phenomenon in Search of an Explanation,” authors Stanley Sue and Sumie Okazaki early on proposed “that Asian Americans perceive, and have experienced, restrictions in upward mobility in careers or jobs that are unrelated to education

Debunking the “Model Asian” Myth: Five Ways Asian-Americans Still Face Discrimination | Hippo Reads

Wow. Had to look really hard to find something to complain about.

ceo's?


Ask me how much it matters to me that CEO's may or may not be white.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

A lot of Asians are near the top in income in the U.S.

List of ethnic groups in the United States by household income - Wikipedia