another Bush appointee going to prison

[Gunny]

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...5fa_fact_hersh


Seymour Hersh's article page five
Taguba, looking back on his testimony, said, “That’s the reason I wasn’t in their camp—because I kept on contradicting them. I wasn’t about to lie to the committee. I knew I was already in a losing proposition. If I lie, I lose. And, if I tell the truth, I lose.”

Taguba had been scheduled to rotate to the Third Army’s headquarters, at Fort McPherson, Georgia, in June of 2004. He was instead ordered back to the Pentagon, to work in the office of the Assistant Secretary of Defense for Reserve Affairs. “It was a lateral assignment,” Taguba said, with a smile and a shrug. “I didn’t quibble. If you’re going to do that to me, well, O.K. We all serve at the pleasure of the President.” A retired four-star Army general later told Taguba that he had been sent to the job in the Pentagon so that he could “be watched.” Taguba realized that his career was at a dead end.

Are you confused by your own threads? Or just trying to create confusion as a diversion?

This thread is about someone going to prison. The Gneral's oped with you running interference for him is in another thread.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Please compare apples to apples. I could give page after page of allegations about Bush and his appointees.

This thread was about Adminstration appointees who have factually been found guilty of a crime, by a jury of their peers. Or, have plead guilty to crimes.

Please provide a list of Clinton adminstration appointees (people the president is directly responsible for hiring and supervising) who were actually found guilty of a crime, during the Clinton adminstrations term. I'd be curious to see if it's anywhere near a long as the Bush list.

If you can't find any examples, beyond Henry Cisneros, or a list that approaches the length Bush list, just give up and we can move on.

Very hard to convict someone when they "accidently" die in a plane crash. Hard to charge someone much less convict them when the people that know the information all die mysteriously. Foster, supposedly committed suicide but no one wants to explain why Hillary was allowed to ransack his house before the police wer let in, nor why he killed himself. Though he had been making noises about being dissastified with the goings on of the Clinton White House. Then there are the Police from Arkansas that were used to procure women for then Governor Clinton. They all died under strange circumstances, 2 or 3 were among the 4 ATF agents gunned down at Waco. The original tape clearly shows them enter a window followed by the ATF agent outside spraying said window and wall with automatic weapons fire. Add to that the fact that NOT one car in the parking lot had bullet holes in them on the side faceing the building.

And then you have Gore and the Clinton's unable to remember anything about their life before or during the 8 years in office. Every question asked was answered with a lie OR " I do not recall"

The most corrupt President in History is Bill Clinton. Worse even then the Guy after Wilson. Remind me again if Bush has been charged with ANY crime? Cheney? Rumsfeld? Now remind me how you and everyone that lives where you do KNOW they are guilty, BUT Congressman Jefferson should not be prejudged before his trial. Pelosi and Feinstein should not be investigated for giving Government Buisness to their Husbands, etc etc....

 

[DeadCanDance]

Very hard to convict someone when they "accidently" die in a plane crash. Hard to charge someone much less convict them when the people that know the information all die mysteriously. Foster, supposedly committed suicide but no one wants to explain why Hillary was allowed to ransack his house before the police wer let in, nor why he killed himself. Though he had been making noises about being dissastified with the goings on of the Clinton White House. Then there are the Police from Arkansas that were used to procure women for then Governor Clinton. They all died under strange circumstances, 2 or 3 were among the 4 ATF agents gunned down at Waco. The original tape clearly shows them enter a window followed by the ATF agent outside spraying said window and wall with automatic weapons fire. Add to that the fact that NOT one car in the parking lot had bullet holes in them on the side faceing the building.

And then you have Gore and the Clinton's unable to remember anything about their life before or during the 8 years in office. Every question asked was answered with a lie OR " I do not recall"

The most corrupt President in History is Bill Clinton. Worse even then the Guy after Wilson. Remind me again if Bush has been charged with ANY crime? Cheney? Rumsfeld? Now remind me how you and everyone that lives where you do KNOW they are guilty, BUT Congressman Jefferson should not be prejudged before his trial. Pelosi and Feinstein should not be investigated for giving Government Buisness to their Husbands, etc etc....

Translation: You can't find, or link me up, with any cases of Clinton adminstration appointees who were convicted of crimes.

Thanks.

I know of one: Henry Cisneros. I believe he plead guilty to a misdemeanor, for lying about payments he made to a mistress.

 

[Gunny]

Translation: You can't find, or link me up, with any cases of Clinton adminstration appointees who were convicted of crimes.

Thanks.

I know of one: Henry Cisneros. I believe he plead guilty to a misdemeanor, for lying about payments he made to a mistress.

LMAO ... he left as mayor of San Antonio in disgrace for having said mistress and Clinton just promoted him up.

 

[DeadCanDance]

LMAO ... he left as mayor of San Antonio in disgrace for having said mistress and Clinton just promoted him up.

Funny, huh?

Having a mistress seems kind of quaint now, looking at the criminal convictions of Bush appointees.


LMAO ... he left as mayor of San Antonio in disgrace for having said mistress and Clinton just promoted him up

Actually, I don't care if he got promoted, even if the guy had a mistress. Half the men in washington have mistresses. What is it with the republican obsession about other men's sex lives?

The misdemeanor conviction for lying didn't happen until the mid-1990s.

 

[jillian]

Very hard to convict someone when they "accidently" die in a plane crash. Hard to charge someone much less convict them when the people that know the information all die mysteriously. Foster, supposedly committed suicide but no one wants to explain why Hillary was allowed to ransack his house before the police wer let in, nor why he killed himself. Though he had been making noises about being dissastified with the goings on of the Clinton White House. Then there are the Police from Arkansas that were used to procure women for then Governor Clinton. They all died under strange circumstances, 2 or 3 were among the 4 ATF agents gunned down at Waco. The original tape clearly shows them enter a window followed by the ATF agent outside spraying said window and wall with automatic weapons fire. Add to that the fact that NOT one car in the parking lot had bullet holes in them on the side faceing the building.

And then you have Gore and the Clinton's unable to remember anything about their life before or during the 8 years in office. Every question asked was answered with a lie OR " I do not recall"

The most corrupt President in History is Bill Clinton. Worse even then the Guy after Wilson. Remind me again if Bush has been charged with ANY crime? Cheney? Rumsfeld? Now remind me how you and everyone that lives where you do KNOW they are guilty, BUT Congressman Jefferson should not be prejudged before his trial. Pelosi and Feinstein should not be investigated for giving Government Buisness to their Husbands, etc etc....

What a bunch of garbage. Seriously. There isn't a thing you said in there that hasn't been discredited. The truth is that Clinton was investigated more than any other president in history and all Ken Starr got was a blue dress.

Go look up how many times the word whitewater appears in Starr's report. (maybe two or three) Then look at how many times the blue dress was mentioned (over 1,000). Had their been anything more, Starr would have fallen all over himself to write about it. Yet liars still persist in writing about Foster. It's the same crap as the folk on the other end who talk about Paul Wellstone dying in a plane crash as some type of indication of a conspiracy.

And if you want to talk about corrupt, look no further than an administration that puts over 100 people from a second, no, make that fourth, rate law school in positions of power as some kind of patronage reward to "the base".... the same folk that brought you the outing of a CIA agent for political purpose and then let one of their own go to jail for covering their butts.

 

[Gunny]

What a bunch of garbage. Seriously. There isn't a thing you said in there that hasn't been discredited. The truth is that Clinton was investigated more than any other president in history and all Ken Starr got was a blue dress.

Go look up how many times the word whitewater appears in Starr's report. (maybe two or three) Then look at how many times the blue dress was mentioned (over 1,000). Had their been anything more, Starr would have fallen all over himself to write about it. Yet liars still persist in writing about Foster. It's the same crap as the folk on the other end who talk about Paul Wellstone dying in a plane crash as some type of indication of a conspiracy.

And if you want to talk about corrupt, look no further than an administration that puts over 100 people from a second, no, make that fourth, rate law school in positions of power as some kind of patronage reward to "the base".... the same folk that brought you the outing of a CIA agent for political purpose and then let one of their own go to jail for covering their butts.

I would point out that Janet Reno redirected Ken Starr to investigate the Monica BS.

You might have a point with Plame had she been undcer cover in accordance with the law and not just someone's hearsay.

 

[jillian]

I would point out that Janet Reno redirected Ken Starr to investigate the Monica BS.

You might have a point with Plame had she been undcer cover in accordance with the law and not just someone's hearsay.

She was undercover according to the testimony of the CIA. Anything else is spin and wishful thinking to justify what the admin did. Sorry, Gunny.

Janet Reno had to authorize Ken Starr's investigation under the Independent Counsel Reauthorization Act of 1994. Of course, the repubs did away with the Independent Counsel as soon as their guy was in power because they didn't ever want one of their own subjected to what they did to Bill Clinton.

 

[Gunny]

She was undercover according to the testimony of the CIA. Anything else is spin and wishful thinking to justify what the admin did. Sorry, Gunny.

Janet Reno had to authorize Ken Starr's investigation under the Independent Counsel Reauthorization Act of 1994. Of course, the repubs did away with the Independent Counsel as soon as their guy was in power because they didn't ever want one of their own subjected to what they did to Bill Clinton.

Cocky has clearly shown where there is a legal definition of under cover. She didn't meet the criteria. Further, she was driving in and out of CIA headquarters on a daily basis.

Sorry, but she was about as "under cover" as I am.

And you mean what Clinton did to himself. Had he just 'fessed up in the beginning; which, he ultimately ended up doing anyway, he could have avoided most of that fiasco.

My point however, is that it was a Clinton political appointee that made teh decision, not Republicans.

Personally, I didn't agree with the way the republicans went after Clinton anymore than I agree with the way dems are going after Bush. And no, there really IS no difference.

 

[jillian]

Cocky has clearly shown where there is a legal definition of under cover. She didn't meet the criteria. Further, she was driving in and out of CIA headquarters on a daily basis.

Sorry, but she was about as "under cover" as I am.

And you mean what Clinton did to himself. Had he just 'fessed up in the beginning; which, he ultimately ended up doing anyway, he could have avoided most of that fiasco.

My point however, is that it was a Clinton political appointee that made teh decision, not Republicans.

Personally, I didn't agree with the way the republicans went after Clinton anymore than I agree with the way dems are going after Bush. And no, there really IS no difference.

He did no such thing. Whether she was undercover or not was determined by the CIA. They referred the matter to the DOJ for a reason and that was BECAUSE she was undercover.

Like I said, it's not really up for discussion once the CIA said she was undercover.

As for Clinton, what he should have done was say "I'm not going to dignify that question with an answer."

I'd respectfully disagree with you about Bush. Bush's actions have been in the arena of government accountability. Who a president bonks really isn't a concern of mine. Why he's putting signing statements into bills saying the law doesn't apply to him; why he's violating the FISA laws; why he allowed his admin to out a CIA agent oP)... now THOSE are things that are deserving of investigation... as is whether or not he and his cronies intentionally misled Congress into authorizing Iraq. I'm still kind of curious as to how a male escort got a white house press pass, too.

All Clinton lied about was an extramarital affair...something the press never bothered to ask Daddy Bush, Kennedy, Eisenhower or Roosevelt about. And, again, I couldn't care less about those types of indiscretions.

 

[Diuretic]

I hope Scooter has internet access in prison. He can seek succour from reading all the "Plame wasn't covert" posts while he's in the prison library.

 

[jillian]

I hope Scooter has internet access in prison. He can seek succour from reading all the "Plame wasn't covert" posts while he's in the prison library.

 

[Gunny]

He did no such thing. Whether she was undercover or not was determined by the CIA. They referred the matter to the DOJ for a reason and that was BECAUSE she was undercover.

Like I said, it's not really up for discussion once the CIA said she was undercover.

And like I said, that's lame. The law, not the CIA determines who does and does not meet the criteria of under cover.

As for Clinton, what he should have done was say "I'm not going to dignify that question with an answer."

I'd respectfully disagree with you about Bush. Bush's actions have been in the arena of government accountability. Who a president bonks really isn't a concern of mine. Why he's putting signing statements into bills saying the law doesn't apply to him; why he's violating the FISA laws; why he allowed his admin to out a CIA agent oP)... now THOSE are things that are deserving of investigation... as is whether or not he and his cronies intentionally misled Congress into authorizing Iraq. I'm still kind of curious as to how a male escort got a white house press pass, too.

All Clinton lied about was an extramarital affair...something the press never bothered to ask Daddy Bush, Kennedy, Eisenhower or Roosevelt about. And, again, I couldn't care less about those types of indiscretions.

You can disagree if you like. Who the arguably most powerful man in the world is bonking in secret most assuredly IS a concern since it could be means of blackmailing a person with a blank check. At the time, btw, adultery was STILL against the law in DC.

I don't think it's any more about acountability with Bush than it was with Clinton. For all the accusations and slurs, what has ACTUALLY been accomplished?

Three people have been harrassed out of office/positions of power -- Delay, Lott and Rumsfeld. Only Delay has actually been charged with a crime, charges that were thrown out once before.

They nailed Libby for not being able to reproduce his recollections verbatim, but not for anything he was accused of. There was aboslutely NOTHING worthy of investigation. Libby got nailed on a process crime so the special investigator could claim he did something.

As far as the FISA laws go, I could care less if suspected terrorists phone calls from overseas/suspected terrorists are monitored. Since the warrants are theirs for the asking, I don't see much of a problem beyond asdministrative incompetence. I agree it should be corrected to comply with the law, but I don't believe it's some big conspiracy worthy of one-tenth the airplay it's gotten.

 

[jillian]

You can disagree if you like. Who the arguably most powerful man in the world is bonking in secret most assuredly IS a concern since it could be means of blackmailing a person with a blank check. At the time, btw, adultery was STILL against the law in DC.

I don't think it's any more about acountability with Bush than it was with Clinton. For all the accusations and slurs, what has ACTUALLY been accomplished?

Three people have been harrassed out of office/positions of power -- Delay, Lott and Rumsfeld. Only Delay has actually been charged with a crime, charges that were thrown out once before.

They nailed Libby for not being able to reproduce his recollections verbatim, but not for anything he was accused of. There was aboslutely NOTHING worthy of investigation. Libby got nailed on a process crime so the special investigator could claim he did something.

As far as the FISA laws go, I could care less if suspected terrorists phone calls from overseas/suspected terrorists are monitored. Since the warrants are theirs for the asking, I don't see much of a problem beyond asdministrative incompetence. I agree it should be corrected to comply with the law, but I don't believe it's some big conspiracy worthy of one-tenth the airplay it's gotten.

Nope... it was blackmail to keep investigating the little blue dress.

What has been accomplished? Given that for six years no one had power to investigate Bush who would actually USE that power, I can't answer until we actually get some more answers. I think this admin is the most corrupt since Nixon, but that's just my opinion.

I'm not going to address them being harassed out of power. DeLay was an autocratic bully who thought the rules didn't apply to him; Rumsfeld was incompetent in running the Iraq operation and should have been ousted two years earlier. He was no more competent than Brownie or Gonzalez. For whatever reason, Bush feels replacing someone is tantamount to a personal admission of failure. So he allows his failures to perpetuate.

As far as FISA goes, if they were only going after terrorists overseas, then they shouldn't worry about accountability. It's the fact that they also went after citizens that should be of greater concern. As I recall, there's an attorney who represented some accused terrorists who found out he was the subject of surveillance by making a FOI request. (I might have the specific facts a bit off... it's been a while since I read about it).

I think we should jealously guard our freedoms and don't see the violation s of FISA as a little thing.

Cheers, Gunny... off to sleep now! Laterz!

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Usual leftoid spin. Clinton brought the Monica affair on himself. And No Starr did not start that investigaton. A woman that Clinton harrassed out of work in Arkansas did. It was in realtion to an on going Court case that Clinton tried to railroad for his entire 8 years as President and failed. Monica was a pattern in the case. Proof that he DID go after women that worked for him.

His lie was not to protect his marriage but to try and protect himself from a charge he harrassed women that worked for him. The claim it was all about sex does not justify that in a personal matter before a court the President of the United States LIED under oath to protect his own sorry ass.

If the President will lie about , as you put it, sex, why would we not expect him to lie about, ohh I do not know... Whitewater, Chinese money, selling pardons, on and on.

Are you now going to pull a Maineman and claim that Clinton did NOT have over 900 FBI files in his quarters illegally? That Hillary did NOT get to go through Fosters house before the police? That Travel Gate didn't happen? That the Chinese did not funnel money to the Presidential reelection campaign? That a criminal's wife did not donate a HUGE sum of money to the Clinton Library and then magically he was pardoned, AGAINST the wishes of the Justice Department?

If you can make claims with out any charges against Bush and INSIST he is guilty of crimes, then guess what? I can repeat these factual charges against Clinton and do the same. You do not like it? Then stop making unproven accusations and claiming they are proof of anything,

 

[CockySOB]

He did no such thing. Whether she was undercover or not was determined by the CIA. They referred the matter to the DOJ for a reason and that was BECAUSE she was undercover.

Like I said, it's not really up for discussion once the CIA said she was undercover.

Bullshit. That's like saying that Nifong saying the Duke boys raped that girl is a legal fact simply on his say-so. After all, Nifong surely wouldn't have brought charges if they hadn't broken the law, right?

Last I checked Jillian, you were someone who claimed to know a little about the law. If that's the fact, what kind of tenth-rate law school/paper-mill did you get your degree from? You make people like Kyle Sampson and Monica Goodling look like Rhodes Scholars....

 

[Truthmatters]

Clinton was investigated for YEARS non stop and what did the investigations find?

Nothing!

The lie about Monica had nothing to do with non consentual sex did it?

therefore it should have not even been asked because it had nothing to do with harassment.

BTW Paula Jones's case was so good it was tossed out of court.

It was a political hack job they payed Paula to bring.

 

[DeadCanDance]

You can disagree if you like. Who the arguably most powerful man in the world is bonking in secret most assuredly IS a concern since it could be means of blackmailing a person with a blank check. At the time, btw, adultery was STILL against the law in DC.

I don't think it's any more about acountability with Bush than it was with Clinton. For all the accusations and slurs, what has ACTUALLY been accomplished?

Three people have been harrassed out of office/positions of power -- Delay, Lott and Rumsfeld. Only Delay has actually been charged with a crime, charges that were thrown out once before.

They nailed Libby for not being able to reproduce his recollections verbatim, but not for anything he was accused of. There was aboslutely NOTHING worthy of investigation. Libby got nailed on a process crime so the special investigator could claim he did something.

As far as the FISA laws go, I could care less if suspected terrorists phone calls from overseas/suspected terrorists are monitored. Since the warrants are theirs for the asking, I don't see much of a problem beyond asdministrative incompetence. I agree it should be corrected to comply with the law, but I don't believe it's some big conspiracy worthy of one-tenth the airplay it's gotten.

"IS a concern since it could be means of blackmailing a person with a blank check. At the time, btw, adultery was STILL against the law in DC. "


This is a totally weak argument.

Newt Gingrinch, Bob Michel, Denny Hastert, all had mistresses. Probably half the men in the US Senate have affairs and mistresses.

 

[mattskramer]

Clinton was investigated for YEARS non stop and what did the investigations find?

Nothing!

The lie about Monica had nothing to do with non consentual sex did it?

You contradict yourself. A lie is something – a lie.

therefore it should have not even been asked because it had nothing to do with harassment.

That is for the court to decide. It might be argued that infidelity serves as a character witness. One inclinded to comit infidelity may be more inclined to commit sexual harassment. Anyway, if it was an irrelevant question, then Clinton’s team would have argued for relevancy.

BTW Paula Jones's case was so good it was tossed out of court.

You are technically incorrect. It was not tossed out. It was settled.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paula_Jones

On November 13, 1998, Clinton settled with Jones for $850,000, the entire amount of her claim, but without an apology, in exchange for her agreement to drop the appeal. All but $151,000 went to pay, what were by then, considerable legal expenses. Before the end of the entire litigation, her marriage broke apart.

In addition:

In April 1999, Judge Wright found President Clinton in civil contempt of court for misleading testimony in the Jones case. She ordered Clinton to pay Jones $91,000 for the expenses incurred as the result of Clinton's evasive and misleading answers. Wright then referred Clinton's conduct to the Arkansas Bar for disciplinary action, and on January 19, 2001, the day before President Clinton left the White House, Clinton entered into an agreement with the Arkansas Bar and Independent Counsel Robert Ray under which Clinton consented to a five-year suspension of his law license.

With the adducement of further evidence in the case President Clinton was held in contempt of court by judge Susan Webber Wright. His license to practice law was suspended in Arkansas and later by the United States Supreme Court. He was also fined $90,000. His fine was paid for by a legal fund raised for his legal expenses.

 

[hjmick]

Oops.