Ann Coulter's New Book: Godless: The religion of Liberals

[nt250]

OK...I'm gonna try this reeeeeeeeeeeeal slow. The sites you're talking about have an agenda and they were funded by people who had something to gain. Factcheck is an honest broker which unravels lies much in the way that snopes.com does urban legends.

But people like you have issues with stuff that's reality-based. I understand.

"Gotta catapult the propaganda" GW Bush :read:

You better talk to yourself even slower because you epitomize exactly why I hate liberals.

Factcheck is missing some facts, which I filled in for you. You refuse to believe me because what I said about Winter Soldier, and what a sham it was is, doesn't fit into your narrow liberal little mind. So instead you go right for the insults.

You have come right out and admitted you won't even read it and you have the nerve to reply to me like I'm the stupid one?

Yup. You are exactly why I hate liberals and they tactics.

Just go watch the Swiftees press conference. It won't kill you. Go watch grown men cry in a room full of reporters and then tell me they did it because some Republicans gave them some money.

Oh, and btw, do you know the names of any of the soldiers who traveled with Kerry during his campaign and how much they were paid?

Didn't think so.

 

[Dr Grump]

I've read more about this subject in the last two years than you could possibly imagine. From every angle. I've read every left wing, nutjob article posted by every stupid liberal who has an internet connection. So don't you dare presume to tell me I'm only reading biased sources.

And you're not biased? You absolutely are. Saying things like "read every left wing, nutjob article posted by every stupid liberal who has an internet connection." makes you biased.

and you say this:

one criticism that was constantly used against many of the SBVT members was that they did not serve on the same boat as John Kerry. That was used as proof that they were not credible.

And it wasn't. Note that those who actually served with him on the boat didn't come out against him. Funny that...

The Swift Boat Vets are mainly conservatives (as most military types are) and were/are pissed at him turning into a peacenik on his return. They have an axe to grind all right, and it showed up in spades. They had zero credibility and were financially backed by a GoP hack. You like dealing in facts, there's a couple for you.
BTW, I though Kerry was a crappy candidate at best, but he was better than Bush...hell, even Ted Kennedy would have been better than Bush and that's saying something!

 

[nt250]

And you're not biased? You absolutely are. Saying things like "read every left wing, nutjob article posted by every stupid liberal who has an internet connection." makes you biased.

and you say this:

one criticism that was constantly used against many of the SBVT members was that they did not serve on the same boat as John Kerry. That was used as proof that they were not credible.

And it wasn't. Note that those who actually served with him on the boat didn't come out against him. Funny that...

The Swift Boat Vets are mainly conservatives (as most military types are) and were/are pissed at him turning into a peacenik on his return. They have an axe to grind all right, and it showed up in spades. They had zero credibility and were financially backed by a GoP hack. You like dealing in facts, there's a couple for you.
BTW, I though Kerry was a crappy candidate at best, but he was better than Bush...hell, even Ted Kennedy would have been better than Bush and that's saying something!

Yes, I'm biased. I never said I wasn't. But I have not relied on just a couple of sources. I, unlike liberals, will read anything. Then I make up my mind.

You missed my point about the argument that not serving on the same boat made their criticism not credible. My point was that when another Swiftboat vet came out and verified Kerry's version of events the day he earned his Silver Star, suddenly to liberals the fact that he was on another boat didn't matter anymore. That was my point. For weeks they'd been criticizing any Swiftee who didn't serve on Kerry's boat, but when this guy spoke up it didn't matter that he didn't serve on the same boat.

Liberals do that kind of thing all the time. So do conservatives, but liberals are much more shameless about it.

 

[dilloduck]

And you're not biased? You absolutely are. Saying things like "read every left wing, nutjob article posted by every stupid liberal who has an internet connection." makes you biased.

and you say this:

one criticism that was constantly used against many of the SBVT members was that they did not serve on the same boat as John Kerry. That was used as proof that they were not credible.

And it wasn't. Note that those who actually served with him on the boat didn't come out against him. Funny that...

The Swift Boat Vets are mainly conservatives (as most military types are) and were/are pissed at him turning into a peacenik on his return. They have an axe to grind all right, and it showed up in spades. They had zero credibility and were financially backed by a GoP hack. You like dealing in facts, there's a couple for you.
BTW, I though Kerry was a crappy candidate at best, but he was better than Bush...hell, even Ted Kennedy would have been better than Bush and that's saying something!

Why don't you libs go find a decent candidate instead of whining ?

 

[Dr Grump]

Yes, I'm biased. I never said I wasn't. But I have not relied on just a couple of sources. I, unlike liberals, will read anything. Then I make up my mind.

You missed my point about the argument that not serving on the same boat made their criticism not credible. My point was that when another Swiftboat vet came out and verified Kerry's version of events the day he earned his Silver Star, suddenly to liberals the fact that he was on another boat didn't matter anymore. That was my point. For weeks they'd been criticizing any Swiftee who didn't serve on Kerry's boat, but when this guy spoke up it didn't matter that he didn't serve on the same boat.

Liberals do that kind of thing all the time. So do conservatives, but liberals are much more shameless about it.

Yep, libs and conservatives do the same thing to each other all the time in that regard. I got your point, but I'll think you'll find that the guy who verified Kerry's version was there with him in the boat next to him. The other guys weren't. I've actually seen an interview with the guy that Kerry saved, and from the way he tells it he'd be dead if it wasn't for Kerry.

As an aside, one of things that cracks me up about conservatives is their total dishonesty and pit bull/ad hominem attacks on people who criticise the Bush admin. I mean Scott Ritter is now a paedophile, Hans Blix is a disgrace, Joe Wilson outed his own wife and is a traitor, John Kerry came by three purple hearts, a bronze and silver star by dodgy means and on and on it goes. I mean, if just one or two of these left of centre folk turned out to be real bad, as the right tries to imply, my eyebrows would be raised, but ALL of them? It's not enough the inuendo is spread, but the rumours are make them out to be the antichrists. That is why a lot of conservatives like O'Reilly and Coulter have no credibility and are liars. Just hot air, nothing else. And it also makes a lie of people saying that this admin is interested in bipartisanship, because if there is one thing the Bush admin is definitely NOT interested in is bipartisanship - even with the moderates in its own party.

 

[Dr Grump]

Why don't you libs go find a decent candidate instead of whining ?

You're asking the wrong person. I ain't a lib and it ain't my fight...just an interested observer in politics...

 

[jillian]

All the good candidates can't keep thier dicks in thier pants?

:rotflmao:

Heh... that's cause there's a strong correlation between high I.Q. and sex drive....

 

[Dr Grump]

Heh... that's cause there's a strong correlation between high I.Q. and sex drive....

Bush is impotent?? Who'd a thought!

 

[jillian]

Bush is impotent?? Who'd a thought!

now I'm going to have to wash my brain to get that image out. heh!

 

[dilloduck]

You're asking the wrong person. I ain't a lib and it ain't my fight...just an interested observer in politics...

Oh bull---You're a chicken shit who doesn't stand for anything and complains about everything. You and bully need to hang together.

 

[Dr Grump]

Oh bull---You're a chicken shit who doesn't stand for anything and complains about everything. You and bully need to hang together.

:teeth:

 

[dilloduck]

Heh... that's cause there's a strong correlation between high I.Q. and sex drive....

So libs can't find a candidate who doesn't hasn't screwed every person he/she has met? They are afraid that the right will scream and thier sex lives will be drug into the open?

 

[Dr Grump]

So libs can't find a candidate who doesn't hasn't screwed every person he/she has met? They are afraid that the right will scream and thier sex lives will be drug into the open?

Name a decent conservative candidate (outsida Powell who won't run)...

And I doubt Hillary has screwed everyone she has met...

 

[dilloduck]

Name a decent conservative candidate (outsida Powell who won't run)...

And I doubt Hillary has screwed everyone she has met...

I guess that's a "no" huh. The idea is to find a candidate that lots of people will vote for. One that will get more votes than the other guy. Put the past behind you and start looking. PLEASE.

 

[Dr Grump]

I guess that's a "no" huh. The idea is to find a candidate that lots of people will vote for. One that will get more votes than the other guy. Put the past behind you and start looking. PLEASE.

As I said, it ain't my fight, but this year's elections will be interesting for sure.

 

[dilloduck]

As I said, it ain't my fight, but this year's elections will be interesting for sure.

What--you don't fight or you don't think it will make any difference ?
Apathy must have something to it cause there sure us a lot of it.

 

[nt250]

Yep, libs and conservatives do the same thing to each other all the time in that regard. I got your point, but I'll think you'll find that the guy who verified Kerry's version was there with him in the boat next to him. The other guys weren't. I've actually seen an interview with the guy that Kerry saved, and from the way he tells it he'd be dead if it wasn't for Kerry.

As an aside, one of things that cracks me up about conservatives is their total dishonesty and pit bull/ad hominem attacks on people who criticise the Bush admin. I mean Scott Ritter is now a paedophile, Hans Blix is a disgrace, Joe Wilson outed his own wife and is a traitor, John Kerry came by three purple hearts, a bronze and silver star by dodgy means and on and on it goes. I mean, if just one or two of these left of centre folk turned out to be real bad, as the right tries to imply, my eyebrows would be raised, but ALL of them? It's not enough the inuendo is spread, but the rumours are make them out to be the antichrists. That is why a lot of conservatives like O'Reilly and Coulter have no credibility and are liars. Just hot air, nothing else. And it also makes a lie of people saying that this admin is interested in bipartisanship, because if there is one thing the Bush admin is definitely NOT interested in is bipartisanship - even with the moderates in its own party.

Both sides do it. But liberals are much meaner about it. I disagree with your statement that O'Reilly and Coulter are liars. And opinion is not a lie. Calling someone liar because you disagree with their opinion doesn't wash. But liberals do it all the time. I'm not an O'Reilly fan. I've watched his show maybe 5 times and I can't stand it. But I can't stand any of the news networks anymore. They're too busy. They all look like really badly designed web pages. Split screens, news crawls along the bottom. Stupid music. Every major story has it's own theme and theme music. Remember the tsunami? Wave of Death. Jeez.

I also disagree with your assessment of conservative vs liberal tactics. I read the conservative press all the time and many conservatives criticize the Bush administration. But they don't call him Satan, the Anti-Christ, or compare him to Hitler. Liberals do that. Jesus ******* Christ, when the mans dog died liberals had a field day. I've never read such hateful stuff in my life. I mean, my God, I've read stuff from liberals on message boards and blogs about Bush's twins, his wife. Really, really hateful stuff.

Even the mainstream media does it. How many times have you read about Bush being a draft dodger? Or that he went AWOL? Or that he "didn't serve" at all? The man spent more time in the military than John Kerry did, and yet people still think he didn't serve at all, much less honorably.

It's insane. Sure, the Clintons got a lot of hate thrown at them. But it was always by the fringe. Those people were always seen as right wing nuts with an axe to grind. Spot dies and people still can't help taking a pot shot at GWB. The level of hatred directed at this man is so out of proportion to anything he has ever done that it's just insane.

I am not a George W. Bush supporter. I think he's a lousy president. But I think he's basically a good man. I don't hate him. I don't think he's Evil with a capital E. But, boy, a hell of a lot of liberals do think he's Evil.

 

[Mr.Conley]

What about a subjective truth?

Take the Swiftees for example. They've been called liars on this thread. Why do some people consider them liars?

When the Swift Boat Veterans For Truth first started getting publicity they were presented by the mainstream media as pawns of the neocons. A front for rich, right wing Republicans. On the message board I posted at at the time (and have since been banned from), the liberals posted articles from all sorts of left wing sites that said everything from The Swiftees were fakes to liars. They were a phony creation of the Right to sabatoge John Kerry's campaign.

But here's the thing: I knew that wasn't true because I'm from Rhode Island and I had read many stories over the years about how veterans hated John Kerry. The SBVT weren't anything new. Everytime the man ran a campaign the veterans came out in force against him. Maybe they weren't as organized, and maybe they didn't bother to form a formal group, but the same thing happened everytime he was up for reelection. I knew that veterans, particularly Vietnam veterans, hated John Kerry with a passion.

I thought it was because of his anti-war activities and his phony medal throw. But when I watched the press conference the Swiftees gave in the Spring of 2004 I realized there had to be more to it that. Grown men do not have to fight back tears to speak in a room full of reporters because of politics. These men were NOT doing it because they were Republicans or supporters of George W. Bush. These men felt betrayed. I had to find out why. So I started reading the Swiftee's site and another site. http://wintersoldier.com.

What I read shocked me. Right there, in The Congressional Record, was John Kerry's testimony on April 22, 1971 before the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations. It's his famous "they cut off ears" speech where he accuses his fellow service members of committing war crimes and atrocities on a "day to day basis" with the "full awareness of all levels of command". That was bad enough. That he would do such a thing while our troops were still over there, some of them POW's at the mercy of a known brutal regime, but during that same testimony John Kerry admits to committing treason.

Now is what I just said the "truth"? I believe it is the truth. John Kerry told the senators that day that he had "...been to Paris. I have talked with both delegations at the peace talks, that is to say the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and the Provisional Revolutionary Government ..." . The Democratic Republic of Vietnam was the North Vietnamese government. The Provisional Revolutionary Government was the Viet Cong. John Kerry met with the enemy and advanced their cause when he came back to the United States. And admitted it on the floor of the Senate. That's treason.

So is my statement that John Kerry committed treason a "truth"? To me it is.

Me thinks I'm being used...

Here is where I'm coming from. I was born 15 years after Vietnam ended. I have no relatives who served in that war, and only know 1-2 people who did. I don't know what the "mood" was like or how John Kerry's statements affected the rest of the country. Basically, I'm not an expert, but my opinions are drawn from the best resources possible.

After looking over factcheck and wintersoldier, I've reached these conclusions:
#1 John Kerry's Medals- The SBV have claimed that Kerry didn't deserve his medals. I disagree. If he didn't deserve the silver star or the purple hearts, then I doubt he would have recieved them.
#2 The Medal Throwing- I don't know
#3 Communist Control of the Antiwar Movement- I highly doubt that John Kerry was a willing pawn of Vietnamese Communists. Although the SBV do offer two documents they claim support this position, I found their conclusion faulty. While the documents claim that the communists will influence the AWM, that is not proof that they dicated all the efforts of the AWM. This is just to far of a jump for me. While the SBV demonstrate that both the Vietnamese and the AWM both had some of the same ideas, they fail to demonstrate that it was not simple to different sets of people having the same idea.
#4 John Kerry's Speech- I am partial to Jillian on this point. She provided the actual speech of John Kerry's testimony, and it supported her position. While nt250 claims that Kerry lied about the Detriot meeting. I found numerous claims (without any support) saying the same on the wintersoldier site. Right now, I lean Jillian, but is nt250 can provide backing for the Detriot lies and that Kerry likely knew, then I will change my position.

 

[dilloduck]

Libs have no one to like so they like to hate. They have to hate or they would have nothing.

 

[Dr Grump]

What--you don't fight or you don't think it will make any difference ?
Apathy must have something to it cause there sure us a lot of it.

I do fight, but not in these elections because it's not my fight...