And you want to know why I support Israel?

[Uncensored2008]

When my kids were little, I had one basic rule about fights, whoever was the physical aggressor was punished. Punch, kick, bite, pull hair, you pay the price.

In this conflict the Arabs are the aggressor 100% of the time. In my book, that makes them wrong 100% of the time.

 

[TemplarKormac]

again, this could happen every day for a year and it still wouldn't amount to the number of civilians killed this year by Israel.

Moral relativism... how tiresome.

 

[ogibillm]

so you find it acceptable for israel to kill hundreds of palestinians, but unacceptable for palestinians to kill 5 israelis.

No, I find it disturbing that you ONLY care about the Palestinians. Loss of life is bad on either side, but for one side the bloodshed can be prevented. It's like a man walking into a blazing inferno buck naked. The fire will win every time. All the Palestinians need to do is step away from the fire.

again, that's overly simplistic. first, it's not possible. you can't tell me that you really expect anyone who has lost their homes and their loved ones to an occupying power to just shrug it off and never lash out. some will be able to move past it, but you're always going to have a few that simply can't. you're also saying that someone should give up on what they believe just because the odds are stacked against them - but people don't just give up on their convictions like that.

so then you have to ask if israel is really protecting itself when they go into palestinian territory as heavy handed as they do. i would contend that they aren't, that they are just perpetuating the violence, and the cynical part of me says they do it because it costs them little compared to the gains it brings. but even if that's not true it's tough to say that killing dozens of palestinians in retaliation for every israeli death is morally acceptable.

it's a circle, and neither side has clean hands. peace won't happen until everyone recognizes that.

 

[ogibillm]

again, this could happen every day for a year and it still wouldn't amount to the number of civilians killed this year by Israel.

Moral relativism... how tiresome.

moral relativism is only caring about the death of innocents when they are israelis. your moral outrage is relative to the identity of the dead.

 

[Kondor3]

That is what happens in war.

You kill more of the Bad Guys than they do of you.

Until they finally get tired of it and quit.

And, if they need additional encouragement, you keep upping the kill-ratio in your favor, until they take the hint.

Thus has it been since time immemorial.

 

[TemplarKormac]

you can't tell me that you really expect anyone who has lost their homes and their loved ones to an occupying power to just shrug it off and never lash out.

Once again, Israel isn't occupying anything. They defend what has been theirs for millennia. But you just expect Israel to sit on its hands and let radicals kill its citizens. Okay then.

so then you have to ask if israel is really protecting itself when they go into palestinian territory as heavy handed as they do.

It is.

 

[TemplarKormac]

moral relativism is only caring about the death of innocents when they are israelis.

Moral relativism is only caring about the death of innocents when they are Palestinians.

Actually the reality here is that we should care, no matter who dies. War is hell, and Palestine knows it. Israel knows it.

 

[ogibillm]

you can't tell me that you really expect anyone who has lost their homes and their loved ones to an occupying power to just shrug it off and never lash out.

Once again, Israel isn't occupying anything. They defend what has been theirs for millennia.

weird. i'm looking at my november 28, 1947 map and israel isn't on it. huh. but millennia you say?

But you just expect Israel to sit on its hands and let radicals kill its citizens. Okay then.

you expect palestinians to just take it on the chin. what's the difference?

so then you have to ask if israel is really protecting itself when they go into palestinian territory as heavy handed as they do.

It is.

is it really? does it move the region closer or farther away from peace?

 

[ogibillm]

moral relativism is only caring about the death of innocents when they are israelis.

Moral relativism is only caring about the death of innocents when they are Palestinians.

Actually the reality here is that we should care, no matter who dies. War is hell, and Palestine knows it. Israel knows it.

and you reserve your outrage for a handful of israelis. hence, your moral relativism.

 

[TemplarKormac]

and you reserve your outrage for a handful of israelis. hence, your moral relativism.

Really? My position seems to be quite superior to yours. You support terrorism, I support the the eradication of it.

 

[TemplarKormac]

weird. i'm looking at my november 28, 1947 map and israel isn't on it. huh. but millennia you say?

Ever hear the of the Balfour Declaration? Israel's national roots were sewn in 1917.

 

[ogibillm]

weird. i'm looking at my november 28, 1947 map and israel isn't on it. huh. but millennia you say?

Ever hear the of the Balfour Declaration? Israel's national roots were sewn in 1917.

wasn't aware 1917 was millenia ago

 

[ogibillm]

and you reserve your outrage for a handful of israelis. hence, your moral relativism.

Really? My position seems to be quite superior to yours. You support terrorism, I support the the eradication of it.

you support the death of dozens of innocents in retaliation for every israeli killed. how is that moral?

 

[TemplarKormac]

weird. i'm looking at my november 28, 1947 map and israel isn't on it. huh. but millennia you say?

Ever hear the of the Balfour Declaration? Israel's national roots were sewn in 1917.

wasn't aware 1917 was millenia ago

More?

A common misperception is that all the Jews were forced into the Diaspora by the Romans after the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem in the year 70 C.E. and then, 1,800 years later, the Jews suddenly returned to Palestine demanding their country back. In reality, the Jewish people have maintained ties to their historic homeland for more than 3,700 years.

The Jewish people base their claim to the Land of Israel on at least four premises: 1) the Jewish people settled and developed the land; 2) the international community granted political sovereignty in Palestine to the Jewish people; 3) the territory was captured in defensive wars and 4) God promised the land to the patriarch Abraham.

Even after the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem, and the beginning of the exile, Jewish life in the Land of Israel continued and often flourished. Large communities were reestablished in Jerusalem and Tiberias by the ninth century. In the 11th century, Jewish communities grew in Rafah, Gaza, Ashkelon, Jaffa and Caesarea. The Crusaders massacred many Jews during the 12th century, but the community rebounded in the next two centuries as large numbers of rabbis and Jewish pilgrims immigrated to Jerusalem and the Galilee. Prominent rabbis established communities in Safed, Jerusalem and elsewhere during the next 300 years.

By the early 19th century—years before the birth of the modern Zionist movement—more than 10,000 Jews lived throughout what is today Israel.1 The 78 years of nation-building, beginning in 1870, culminated in the reestablishment of the Jewish State.

Israel’s international “birth certificate” was validated by the promise of the Bible; uninterrupted Jewish settlement from the time of Joshua onward; the Balfour Declaration of 1917; the League of Nations Mandate, which incorporated the Balfour Declaration; the United Nations partition resolution of 1947; Israel’s admission to the UN in 1949; the recognition of Israel by most other states; and, most of all, the society created by Israel’s people in decades of thriving, dynamic national existence.

Myths Facts Israel s Roots Chapter 1 Jewish Virtual Library

 

[ogibillm]

weird. i'm looking at my november 28, 1947 map and israel isn't on it. huh. but millennia you say?

Ever hear the of the Balfour Declaration? Israel's national roots were sewn in 1917.

wasn't aware 1917 was millenia ago

More?

A common misperception is that all the Jews were forced into the Diaspora by the Romans after the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem in the year 70 C.E. and then, 1,800 years later, the Jews suddenly returned to Palestine demanding their country back. In reality, the Jewish people have maintained ties to their historic homeland for more than 3,700 years.

The Jewish people base their claim to the Land of Israel on at least four premises: 1) the Jewish people settled and developed the land; 2) the international community granted political sovereignty in Palestine to the Jewish people; 3) the territory was captured in defensive wars and 4) God promised the land to the patriarch Abraham.

Even after the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem, and the beginning of the exile, Jewish life in the Land of Israel continued and often flourished. Large communities were reestablished in Jerusalem and Tiberias by the ninth century. In the 11th century, Jewish communities grew in Rafah, Gaza, Ashkelon, Jaffa and Caesarea. The Crusaders massacred many Jews during the 12th century, but the community rebounded in the next two centuries as large numbers of rabbis and Jewish pilgrims immigrated to Jerusalem and the Galilee. Prominent rabbis established communities in Safed, Jerusalem and elsewhere during the next 300 years.

By the early 19th century—years before the birth of the modern Zionist movement—more than 10,000 Jews lived throughout what is today Israel.1 The 78 years of nation-building, beginning in 1870, culminated in the reestablishment of the Jewish State.

Israel’s international “birth certificate” was validated by the promise of the Bible; uninterrupted Jewish settlement from the time of Joshua onward; the Balfour Declaration of 1917; the League of Nations Mandate, which incorporated the Balfour Declaration; the United Nations partition resolution of 1947; Israel’s admission to the UN in 1949; the recognition of Israel by most other states; and, most of all, the society created by Israel’s people in decades of thriving, dynamic national existence.

Myths Facts Israel s Roots Chapter 1 Jewish Virtual Library

look, you can claim whatever historical justification you want, that doesn't change that the creation of israel displaced a good many people - people that weren't happy about it.

 

[TemplarKormac]

weird. i'm looking at my november 28, 1947 map and israel isn't on it. huh. but millennia you say?

Ever hear the of the Balfour Declaration? Israel's national roots were sewn in 1917.

wasn't aware 1917 was millenia ago

More?

A common misperception is that all the Jews were forced into the Diaspora by the Romans after the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem in the year 70 C.E. and then, 1,800 years later, the Jews suddenly returned to Palestine demanding their country back. In reality, the Jewish people have maintained ties to their historic homeland for more than 3,700 years.

The Jewish people base their claim to the Land of Israel on at least four premises: 1) the Jewish people settled and developed the land; 2) the international community granted political sovereignty in Palestine to the Jewish people; 3) the territory was captured in defensive wars and 4) God promised the land to the patriarch Abraham.

Even after the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem, and the beginning of the exile, Jewish life in the Land of Israel continued and often flourished. Large communities were reestablished in Jerusalem and Tiberias by the ninth century. In the 11th century, Jewish communities grew in Rafah, Gaza, Ashkelon, Jaffa and Caesarea. The Crusaders massacred many Jews during the 12th century, but the community rebounded in the next two centuries as large numbers of rabbis and Jewish pilgrims immigrated to Jerusalem and the Galilee. Prominent rabbis established communities in Safed, Jerusalem and elsewhere during the next 300 years.

By the early 19th century—years before the birth of the modern Zionist movement—more than 10,000 Jews lived throughout what is today Israel.1 The 78 years of nation-building, beginning in 1870, culminated in the reestablishment of the Jewish State.

Israel’s international “birth certificate” was validated by the promise of the Bible; uninterrupted Jewish settlement from the time of Joshua onward; the Balfour Declaration of 1917; the League of Nations Mandate, which incorporated the Balfour Declaration; the United Nations partition resolution of 1947; Israel’s admission to the UN in 1949; the recognition of Israel by most other states; and, most of all, the society created by Israel’s people in decades of thriving, dynamic national existence.

Myths Facts Israel s Roots Chapter 1 Jewish Virtual Library

look, you can claim whatever historical justification you want, that doesn't change that the creation of israel displaced a good many people - people that weren't happy about it.

I found this post:

It all starts in 1947 according to you - with not a mention of what happened between 1917-1947.

No mention of:

1. the Paris Peace Conference 1919,

2.the San Remo Conference 1920,

3.the Treaty of Sevres 1920,

4. the unanimous decision of the League of Nations Mandate for Palestine 1922 legally authorizing the Jews to "reconstitute" the Jewish National Home in Palestine in 0.01% of the Ottoman Empire territories conquered in World War 1

5. The Mandate for Lebanon and Syria and the Mandate for Mesopotamia enabling self-determination for Arabs in the remaining 99.99% of the conquered Ottoman Empire territories

6. the exclusion of the Jewish National Home provisions of the Mandate applying in 80% of Mandatory Palestine,

7. the 1937 Peel Commission,

8. the 1939 British White Paper,

9. the Arab riots in 1920, 1929 and 1936-1939

The only history is your version of history.

 

[ogibillm]

weird. i'm looking at my november 28, 1947 map and israel isn't on it. huh. but millennia you say?

Ever hear the of the Balfour Declaration? Israel's national roots were sewn in 1917.

wasn't aware 1917 was millenia ago

More?

A common misperception is that all the Jews were forced into the Diaspora by the Romans after the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem in the year 70 C.E. and then, 1,800 years later, the Jews suddenly returned to Palestine demanding their country back. In reality, the Jewish people have maintained ties to their historic homeland for more than 3,700 years.

The Jewish people base their claim to the Land of Israel on at least four premises: 1) the Jewish people settled and developed the land; 2) the international community granted political sovereignty in Palestine to the Jewish people; 3) the territory was captured in defensive wars and 4) God promised the land to the patriarch Abraham.

Even after the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem, and the beginning of the exile, Jewish life in the Land of Israel continued and often flourished. Large communities were reestablished in Jerusalem and Tiberias by the ninth century. In the 11th century, Jewish communities grew in Rafah, Gaza, Ashkelon, Jaffa and Caesarea. The Crusaders massacred many Jews during the 12th century, but the community rebounded in the next two centuries as large numbers of rabbis and Jewish pilgrims immigrated to Jerusalem and the Galilee. Prominent rabbis established communities in Safed, Jerusalem and elsewhere during the next 300 years.

By the early 19th century—years before the birth of the modern Zionist movement—more than 10,000 Jews lived throughout what is today Israel.1 The 78 years of nation-building, beginning in 1870, culminated in the reestablishment of the Jewish State.

Israel’s international “birth certificate” was validated by the promise of the Bible; uninterrupted Jewish settlement from the time of Joshua onward; the Balfour Declaration of 1917; the League of Nations Mandate, which incorporated the Balfour Declaration; the United Nations partition resolution of 1947; Israel’s admission to the UN in 1949; the recognition of Israel by most other states; and, most of all, the society created by Israel’s people in decades of thriving, dynamic national existence.

Myths Facts Israel s Roots Chapter 1 Jewish Virtual Library

look, you can claim whatever historical justification you want, that doesn't change that the creation of israel displaced a good many people - people that weren't happy about it.

I found this post:

It all starts in 1947 according to you - with not a mention of what happened between 1917-1947.

No mention of:

1. the Paris Peace Conference 1919,

2.the San Remo Conference 1920,

3.the Treaty of Sevres 1920,

4. the unanimous decision of the League of Nations Mandate for Palestine 1922 legally authorizing the Jews to "reconstitute" the Jewish National Home in Palestine in 0.01% of the Ottoman Empire territories conquered in World War 1

5. The Mandate for Lebanon and Syria and the Mandate for Mesopotamia enabling self-determination for Arabs in the remaining 99.99% of the conquered Ottoman Empire territories

6. the exclusion of the Jewish National Home provisions of the Mandate applying in 80% of Mandatory Palestine,

7. the 1937 Peel Commission,

8. the 1939 British White Paper,

9. the Arab riots in 1920, 1929 and 1936-1939

The only history is your version of history.

does any of that change that people were displaced when israel was created?

 

[TemplarKormac]

Ever hear the of the Balfour Declaration? Israel's national roots were sewn in 1917.

wasn't aware 1917 was millenia ago

More?

A common misperception is that all the Jews were forced into the Diaspora by the Romans after the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem in the year 70 C.E. and then, 1,800 years later, the Jews suddenly returned to Palestine demanding their country back. In reality, the Jewish people have maintained ties to their historic homeland for more than 3,700 years.

The Jewish people base their claim to the Land of Israel on at least four premises: 1) the Jewish people settled and developed the land; 2) the international community granted political sovereignty in Palestine to the Jewish people; 3) the territory was captured in defensive wars and 4) God promised the land to the patriarch Abraham.

Even after the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem, and the beginning of the exile, Jewish life in the Land of Israel continued and often flourished. Large communities were reestablished in Jerusalem and Tiberias by the ninth century. In the 11th century, Jewish communities grew in Rafah, Gaza, Ashkelon, Jaffa and Caesarea. The Crusaders massacred many Jews during the 12th century, but the community rebounded in the next two centuries as large numbers of rabbis and Jewish pilgrims immigrated to Jerusalem and the Galilee. Prominent rabbis established communities in Safed, Jerusalem and elsewhere during the next 300 years.

By the early 19th century—years before the birth of the modern Zionist movement—more than 10,000 Jews lived throughout what is today Israel.1 The 78 years of nation-building, beginning in 1870, culminated in the reestablishment of the Jewish State.

Israel’s international “birth certificate” was validated by the promise of the Bible; uninterrupted Jewish settlement from the time of Joshua onward; the Balfour Declaration of 1917; the League of Nations Mandate, which incorporated the Balfour Declaration; the United Nations partition resolution of 1947; Israel’s admission to the UN in 1949; the recognition of Israel by most other states; and, most of all, the society created by Israel’s people in decades of thriving, dynamic national existence.

Myths Facts Israel s Roots Chapter 1 Jewish Virtual Library

look, you can claim whatever historical justification you want, that doesn't change that the creation of israel displaced a good many people - people that weren't happy about it.

I found this post:

It all starts in 1947 according to you - with not a mention of what happened between 1917-1947.

No mention of:

1. the Paris Peace Conference 1919,

2.the San Remo Conference 1920,

3.the Treaty of Sevres 1920,

4. the unanimous decision of the League of Nations Mandate for Palestine 1922 legally authorizing the Jews to "reconstitute" the Jewish National Home in Palestine in 0.01% of the Ottoman Empire territories conquered in World War 1

5. The Mandate for Lebanon and Syria and the Mandate for Mesopotamia enabling self-determination for Arabs in the remaining 99.99% of the conquered Ottoman Empire territories

6. the exclusion of the Jewish National Home provisions of the Mandate applying in 80% of Mandatory Palestine,

7. the 1937 Peel Commission,

8. the 1939 British White Paper,

9. the Arab riots in 1920, 1929 and 1936-1939

The only history is your version of history.

does any of that change that people were displaced when israel was created?

Yes. What makes you think it doesn't?

 

[Humanity]

"Animals"....?

"There is no school tomorrow; there are no children left in Gaza,” chanted the right-wing extremists gathered opposite Tel Aviv’s Rabin Square on Saturday night, waving Israeli flags and shaking their fingers in the air.

As the the cries of “I hate all the Arabs” and “Gaza is a cemetery” intensified, some of the protestors tried to accost the participants in one of the country’s biggest anti-war demonstrations this year.

They're lucky Israel doesn't nuke them like America did the Japanese. Pius these are "right wingers" not the entire population of Israelis.

As neither is the entire population of Palestinians!

Aha, so that's why people were eating sweets and dancing in the streets, and why murderers like these are idolized by the Palestinian media, streets are named after them, and the govt. posts their pictures all over the place, encouraging more behavior like this.

You and yours who believe that YOU are the righteous ones and freaking idiots!

It's ok for Israelis to 'celebrate' murder is it?

A god given right no doubt!

Well, when you see him, god that is... No, wait, think you will be going somewhere a lot warmer with your vile, belligerent views!

Enjoy!

 

[ogibillm]

wasn't aware 1917 was millenia ago

More?

A common misperception is that all the Jews were forced into the Diaspora by the Romans after the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem in the year 70 C.E. and then, 1,800 years later, the Jews suddenly returned to Palestine demanding their country back. In reality, the Jewish people have maintained ties to their historic homeland for more than 3,700 years.

The Jewish people base their claim to the Land of Israel on at least four premises: 1) the Jewish people settled and developed the land; 2) the international community granted political sovereignty in Palestine to the Jewish people; 3) the territory was captured in defensive wars and 4) God promised the land to the patriarch Abraham.

Even after the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem, and the beginning of the exile, Jewish life in the Land of Israel continued and often flourished. Large communities were reestablished in Jerusalem and Tiberias by the ninth century. In the 11th century, Jewish communities grew in Rafah, Gaza, Ashkelon, Jaffa and Caesarea. The Crusaders massacred many Jews during the 12th century, but the community rebounded in the next two centuries as large numbers of rabbis and Jewish pilgrims immigrated to Jerusalem and the Galilee. Prominent rabbis established communities in Safed, Jerusalem and elsewhere during the next 300 years.

By the early 19th century—years before the birth of the modern Zionist movement—more than 10,000 Jews lived throughout what is today Israel.1 The 78 years of nation-building, beginning in 1870, culminated in the reestablishment of the Jewish State.

Israel’s international “birth certificate” was validated by the promise of the Bible; uninterrupted Jewish settlement from the time of Joshua onward; the Balfour Declaration of 1917; the League of Nations Mandate, which incorporated the Balfour Declaration; the United Nations partition resolution of 1947; Israel’s admission to the UN in 1949; the recognition of Israel by most other states; and, most of all, the society created by Israel’s people in decades of thriving, dynamic national existence.

Myths Facts Israel s Roots Chapter 1 Jewish Virtual Library

look, you can claim whatever historical justification you want, that doesn't change that the creation of israel displaced a good many people - people that weren't happy about it.

I found this post:

It all starts in 1947 according to you - with not a mention of what happened between 1917-1947.

No mention of:

1. the Paris Peace Conference 1919,

2.the San Remo Conference 1920,

3.the Treaty of Sevres 1920,

4. the unanimous decision of the League of Nations Mandate for Palestine 1922 legally authorizing the Jews to "reconstitute" the Jewish National Home in Palestine in 0.01% of the Ottoman Empire territories conquered in World War 1

5. The Mandate for Lebanon and Syria and the Mandate for Mesopotamia enabling self-determination for Arabs in the remaining 99.99% of the conquered Ottoman Empire territories

6. the exclusion of the Jewish National Home provisions of the Mandate applying in 80% of Mandatory Palestine,

7. the 1937 Peel Commission,

8. the 1939 British White Paper,

9. the Arab riots in 1920, 1929 and 1936-1939

The only history is your version of history.

does any of that change that people were displaced when israel was created?

Yes. What makes you think it doesn't?

because it doesn't. people were displaced by the creation of israel. that's a fact.