And WHO is Louis Gates, anyway?

[Contessa_Sharra]

Not all of the white New Englanders are racially "accepting" of other groups.

You can say that again! I grew up in DC but when we moved back to MA I was shocked at how people talked about blacks and Jews. I had the naive impression that the North was less racist.

Reality bites sometimes.

The people in N. E. can be very closed off and totally insular.

Imagine the type: A woman, after the death of her husband, and after having lived in one small N. E. town for 55 years, was asked in all seriousness if, now that he was dead, was she going to move "back south with her own people."

 

[garyd]

Of course the Neighbor knew who Gates is but absent a pair of binoculars exactly how was he supposed to be able to recognize gates at a distance of a least a hundred yards or so? Also what reason would he have to believe that Gates was breaking into his own home?

If you've read material written by Gates the inescapable conclusion is that Like Cornelius West the only difference between either gentlemen and the Grand Dragon of the KKK is the color f the skin of the people they hate.

 

[Sweet Willy]

Of course the Neighbor knew who Gates is but absent a pair of binoculars exactly how was he supposed to be able to recognize gates at a distance of a least a hundred yards or so? Also what reason would he have to believe that Gates was breaking into his own home?

If you've read material written by Gates the inescapable conclusion is that Like Cornelius West the only difference between either gentlemen and the Grand Dragon of the KKK is the color f the skin of the people they hate.

That may be true. In either case, we protect their speech and home to the same extent we expect ours to be honored, in any given instance. I am not willing to give over any kind of speech or property rights of mine, just so Gates can get what he probably deserves. Call me crazy but poppy cock like this does not make a convincing argument that I should give up any liberty.

 

[garyd]

Did I say otherwise? And that was exactly what the hell the cop was there to do - protect Gate's personal property. He had no way of knowing who Gates was and Gates was at every step the instigator of this situation. Had he not reacted like the rascist hate monger he is he would not have been arrested.

 

[Againsheila]

My point here would be that in that particular neighborhood, and New England being exactly what it is, I cannot even begin to imagine that the "neighbor" in question did not know exactly who this man is. I grew up in insular New England and I know how they are about this sort of thing, as well as the "attitudes."

In all fairness, she could have been new to the neighborhood. He also. I know who Gates is and what he looks like but I'm not sure I would recognize him at a distance.

Beside, celebs are know to sometimes do wacky stuff.

Let's just assume one is riding down the street, leaving a friend's home perhaps. One observes two males leaning shoulders into door. Pretty nice neighborhood is an assumption. So, should one ignore or call police about a possible problem?

Well, obviously, what we've learned from this case is that if the two people breaking into the home are black, we shouldn't call the cops.

 

[Againsheila]

Not so fast. Gate's home was hooked up with a security alarm. Isn't it standard practice for the people from the alarm company to call the police once the alarm is turned off? Isn't it reasonable to assume that the owner of the house, rather than a burglar, would know the code?
"[...] Professor Gates then entered his rear door with his key, turned off his alarm, [...]
Professor Gates informed the officer that he lived there and was a faculty member at Harvard University. The officer then asked Professor Gates whether he could prove that he lived there and taught at Harvard. Professor Gates said that he could, and turned to walk into his kitchen, where he had left his wallet. The officer followed him. Professor Gates handed both his Harvard University identification and his valid Massachusetts driver’s license to the officer. Both include Professor Gates’ photograph, and the license includes his address.

Professor Gates then asked the police officer if he would give him his name and his badge number. He made this request several times. The officer did not produce any identification nor did he respond to Professor Gates’ request for this information. After an additional request by Professor Gates for the officer’s name and badge number, the officer then turned and left the kitchen of Professor Gates’ home without ever acknowledging who he was or if there were charges against Professor Gates. As Professor Gates followed the officer to his own front door, he was astonished to see several police officers gathered on his front porch.[...]"

Now, if Gates was all up in the officers face, why would the other officers have hung out on the front porch rather than enter the home? Are officers supposed to supply name and badge number upon request?
Henry Louis Gates Jr. Arrested

This is what Gates' lawyer claims happened. Crowley tells a very different story. Crowley claims he immediately told Gates he was following up on a 911 call reporting a possible break in and that Gates responded with a barrage of racial slurs, that Gates at first refused to show his ID and that Gates continued to demand Crowley give him his name after Crowley had identified himself twice already. Crowley walked out of the house, I suspect because he wanted witnesses to be able to confirm Gates' bizarre and irrational behavior, but did not leave the premises because he still needed the Harvard police to confirm Gates had a legal right to be in the house since it was rented from Harvard.

Crowley's account of events has been confirmed by the Cambridge police at the scene and has not been contradicted by the Harvard police, the Harvard maintenance people or the onlookers at the scene.

The Harvard police weren't in the house, neither were any "onlookers" in the house. The officer responding got there alone, and the rest came afterward. The other police officers were standing on the front porch, and arrived after Gates went to the kitchen to get his wallet. So what could any of them confirm or deny about the officers version of events? Its the homeowners word against the police officer.

Considering Gates was yelling so loud, the neighbors were gathering, I think it's a fair bet the cops outside heard exactly what was happening.

 

[Againsheila]

Mr. Gates is a racist who believes his color gives him entitlement to acting badly.

And sadly, since the charges were dropped, it seems he's right.

 

[Anguille]

Cambridge police are refusing to release the tape of Crowley's call to let them know he's determined that there hasn't been a break-in and the back-up can take their time getting there. The call during which Crowley claimed Gates was yelling.

 

[garyd]

SOP Anguille doesn't prove anything one way or the other.

 

[Againsheila]

Cambridge police are refusing to release the tape of Crowley's call to let them know he's determined that there hasn't been a break-in and the back-up can take their time getting there. The call during which Crowley claimed Gates was yelling.

Really? Are you sure it's not because Gates made sure it wasn't released? Remember, the charges were dropped, thanks to his having friends in high places, it quite probably his friends have insured that the tape won't be released. Me? I'd love it to be released. Bet that wouldn't change your mind though....

 

[Sweet Willy]

Did I say otherwise? And that was exactly what the hell the cop was there to do - protect Gate's personal property. He had no way of knowing who Gates was and Gates was at every step the instigator of this situation. Had he not reacted like the rascist hate monger he is he would not have been arrested.

That's not true. He kows who Gates is very ealry in the incident. Crowley says so himself. He believed gates was who he said he was and then Gates provided ID. Crowley can then turn and walk away, noting to himself to take his sweet time if he ever gets called out there again.

Gates isn't worth the sacrifice. If you'll stand for them to take Gates right to make a fool of himself in his own front yard, you'll let them do it to me too. And I reserve that right to a very strict standard.

 

[garyd]

Yes he knew who Gates was after the third time Crowley asked for ID. He appears to have suspected it somewhat earlier. But beofre he arrived he had no idea that the owner of the house was the one breaking into it and that was my point. Crowley tried to walk away Gates wasn't having it. Gates got arrested because he, Gates, would have it no other way.

 

[Sweet Willy]

Cambridge police are refusing to release the tape of Crowley's call to let them know he's determined that there hasn't been a break-in and the back-up can take their time getting there. The call during which Crowley claimed Gates was yelling.

Really? Are you sure it's not because Gates made sure it wasn't released? Remember, the charges were dropped, thanks to his having friends in high places, it quite probably his friends have insured that the tape won't be released. Me? I'd love it to be released. Bet that wouldn't change your mind though....

So he knows it's not a break in and evidently, Gates was resonably far away from being so irate that he was about to be arrested, right? He "shuts it down". That's what police, fire and rescue do when IT'S A FALSE ALARM. Crowley already knows it's a false alarm and obviously he isn't about to make an arrest when he shuts it down. So what ever happened to make him arrest Gates happened after Crowley knew who he was. That's the end of the story. He should have met his back up at the street and if they didn't like the sound of Gates voice, they could pull to the end of the block and talk about what a prick Gates is.

 

[Anguille]

Cambridge police are refusing to release the tape of Crowley's call to let them know he's determined that there hasn't been a break-in and the back-up can take their time getting there. The call during which Crowley claimed Gates was yelling.

Really? Are you sure it's not because Gates made sure it wasn't released? Remember, the charges were dropped, thanks to his having friends in high places, it quite probably his friends have insured that the tape won't be released. Me? I'd love it to be released. Bet that wouldn't change your mind though....

Sounds like you've been spending a little to much time in the conspiracy forum, Sheila.

 

[del]

Cambridge police are refusing to release the tape of Crowley's call to let them know he's determined that there hasn't been a break-in and the back-up can take their time getting there. The call during which Crowley claimed Gates was yelling.

that's an outright lie. the city's lawyers' are reviewing them.
i hope they're released.

 

[garyd]

Gates could have at any time he chose before the arrest have ended the incident. He chose not to. Gates chose to be a belligerant asshole all the way and got arrested for it. If a few more bellgerant assholes got arrested time to time maybe this might just might become a somewhat more polite world.

 

[Barb]

Two hard-ons met in the night, folks.

NBD

Actually it was closer to high noon

You are a tool of the left.

You are just a tool "[...] Police arrived at Gates’s Ware Street home near Harvard Square at 12:44 p.m[...]"
Harvard professor Gates arrested at Cambridge home - Local News Updates - The Boston Globe

 

[Sweet Willy]

Yes he knew who Gates was after the third time Crowley asked for ID. He appears to have suspected it somewhat earlier. But beofre he arrived he had no idea that the owner of the house was the one breaking into it and that was my point. Crowley tried to walk away Gates wasn't having it. Gates got arrested because he, Gates, would have it no other way.

Baloney. It's not as if anyone laid a hand on anyone else and forced them to stay. Once he knew it was Gates house he could go away and I don't care if Gates is standing on the front porch yelling at him. If Crowley was a half decent cop he would have never let it get that far anyway. He would have diffused the race poppy cock from the first word. If he couldn't diffuse it, and it is like Crowley says it was, a long, sustained and obvious race baiting session, he should ignore it right up to the point of looking at the ID and getting the hell out. No one detained or impeded him. There was no need for him to hang around for a spirited debate with Gates about profiling. Unless of course.....he was profiling.

 

[Anguille]

Cambridge police are refusing to release the tape of Crowley's call to let them know he's determined that there hasn't been a break-in and the back-up can take their time getting there. The call during which Crowley claimed Gates was yelling.

that's an outright lie. the city's lawyers' are reviewing them.
i hope they're released.

"The calls were the focal point of a whirlwind day in which Cambridge officials declined to release tape recordings of radio transmissions from last week’s encounter between Gates and Crowley."

Obama moves to quell Gates furor - The Boston Globe

Oh my! Are you calling the Globe a liar?

 

[Barb]

This is what Gates' lawyer claims happened. Crowley tells a very different story. Crowley claims he immediately told Gates he was following up on a 911 call reporting a possible break in and that Gates responded with a barrage of racial slurs, that Gates at first refused to show his ID and that Gates continued to demand Crowley give him his name after Crowley had identified himself twice already. Crowley walked out of the house, I suspect because he wanted witnesses to be able to confirm Gates' bizarre and irrational behavior, but did not leave the premises because he still needed the Harvard police to confirm Gates had a legal right to be in the house since it was rented from Harvard.

Crowley's account of events has been confirmed by the Cambridge police at the scene and has not been contradicted by the Harvard police, the Harvard maintenance people or the onlookers at the scene.

The Harvard police weren't in the house, neither were any "onlookers" in the house. The officer responding got there alone, and the rest came afterward. The other police officers were standing on the front porch, and arrived after Gates went to the kitchen to get his wallet. So what could any of them confirm or deny about the officers version of events? Its the homeowners word against the police officer.

Considering Gates was yelling so loud, the neighbors were gathering, I think it's a fair bet the cops outside heard exactly what was happening.

With several police officers on Gate's porch, do you really think it was the volume of his voice that attracted attention? Did they all come in the same car? Practicing for clown college?