Analyst: Secret Report Reveals Kerry's Plan 'Fraud'

[Jroc]

P F Tinmore; georgephillip, et al,

See Posting #15, in this thread.

Palestine was self sufficient (Israel never has been) until the Zionists stole their stuff.

(COMMENT)

Ah yes, the permanent and perpetual "Palestinian Victim" defense. It is never the fault of the Palestinian. They always did the right thing. They never did anything wrong. They had a perfect right to pledge a solemn oath of genocide on the Jewish People. They are freedom fighters and not terrorists.

The Zionist did this and the Zionist did that. It is always the Zionist who are at fault.

Most Respectfully,
R

Are you saying that the Zionists did not go to Palestine to take over the country?

"Palestine" was never a country

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

The Zionist had "national aspirations" the same as the Ruling Elite in the "Arab" world has "national aspirations." The Arab Ruling Elite and the Zionist understood quite well the the "aspirations" of the other. However, both the Arab Ruling Elite and the Zionist were well aware that the key to achieving their individual goals and aspirations rested in securing the cooperations of the Mandatory Power.

Are you saying that the Zionists did not go to Palestine to take over the country?

(OBSERVATION)

Neither the Arab Ruling Elite and the Zionist had the capacity, the physical ability, or the legal authority, to "take over" anything in the Territory described by treaty as: "from the Mediterranean to the frontier of Persia." In that regard to that specific region:

Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.

The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighbourly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries.

ARTICLE 132.

Outside her frontiers as fixed by the present Treaty Turkey hereby renounces in favour of the Principal Allied Powers all rights and title which she could claim on any ground over or concerning any territories outside Europe which are not otherwise disposed of by the present Treaty.

Turkey undertakes to recognise and conform to the measures which may be taken now or in the future by the Principal Allied Powers, in agreement where necessary with third Powers, in order to carry the above stipulation into effect.​

ARTICLE 139.

Turkey renounces formally all rights of suzerainty or jurisdiction of any kind over Moslems who are subject to the sovereignty or protectorate of any other State.​

SOURCE: SECTION XIII. GENERAL PROVISIONS. SIGNED AT SÈVRES 10 AUGUST 1920

SOURCE: TREATY OF PEACE WITH TURKEY SIGNED AT LAUSANNE, JULY 24, 1923

(COMMENT)

The question is, who were either the "Arab Ruling Elite and the Zionist" going to takeover the country from? (Rhetorical) Certainly not the indigenous population. The territory was not under the authority or control of the indigenous population. It passed from the Sovereign Power to the Allied Powers; no matter which treaty, charter, convention, or agreement one might examine.

And since the territory passed from the Sovereign Power to the Allied Powers, under Treaty (International Law), and it was agreed that the Allied Powers were to pass it under Mandate (San Remo Conference decided on April 24, 1920 and Mandate for Palestine, 12 August 1922), AND --- whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed in favor of the establishment Jewish Nation Home; and the facilitation Jewish immigration and territorial citizenship for the purpose of reconstituting the Jewish National Home. The purpose and intent was controlled by powers, other than, Zionist or the Jewish Agency.

(SUMMARY)

No matter what the "Arab Ruling Elite and the Zionist" may have said as to their purpose, it cannot over emphasized, neither had the capacity, the physical ability, or the legal authority, to do anything beyond that authorized by the League of Nation Mandate Commission or the Mandatory Power. And certainly, the indigenous population had no similar authority.

Most Respectfully,
R

You tend to forget that Palestine was a country with defined international borders. There was a Palestinian nationality and Palestinian citizens.

This was all established before the mandate. When did this change and who had the authority to change it?

 

[georgephillip]

georgephillip, et al,

I think there is something wrong with your analysis.

georgephillip, et al,

No, I do not believe that a "(long-term and successful) Confederation is possible. Such a Union would require both sides to trust one another (politically, economically, and morally) and come together under a common Constitution.


(COMMENT)

The Arab-Palestinian is an unaffordable economic parasite to any relationship it has; and gives back nothing in return. It would smother Israel and destroy any advancements it has made. The State of Palestine is a welfare state, unable to support itself. It is certainly unable to cohesively establish a free society and eliminate racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia, and related intolerance. It would not be able to achieve conditions whereby everyone may enjoy his civil and political rights, as well as his economic, social and cultural rights.

Mearshimer and Walt give the impression it's Israel that qualifies as an unaffordable parasite for the US taxpayer, at least. Since 1976 it has not been the case that the HoAP has received the largest annual amount of direct US economic and military assistance.

How many "Jews" were living on the West Bank in 1976?

I think it's fair to say the number would be much less than what it is today if the HoAP had received $8 million a day since Carter's election.

It wasn't the Arabs who evicted 650,000 Jews from their homes in 1948 while stealing 60% of the land between the River and the sea; maybe that's where the recent lack of trust took root?

(QUESTION)

$8M a day ($2.9B/year); Since the Carter Administration (1977 - 1981), before adjustment to current dollar values, is approximately $93B.

(OBSERVATION)

To date, the US has provided Israel $118 billion (current, or non-inflation-adjusted, dollars) in bilateral assistance.

SOURCE: Congressional Research Service Report: RL33222

Updated 12/18/2013
Key economic statistics
......................................................This week.....Month ago.....Year ago
Gross Domestic Product (billions)......$16890.8.....$16857.6......$15797.4​

SOURCE: Gross Domestic Product (GDP) is the value of all goods and services produced in the U.S.

The entire 32 years of aid, since the end of the Jimmy Carter Administration, amounts to seven tenths of one per cent of last weeks of the US GDP for one year (2013). Putting the amount in a daily form ($8M/day) is dramatic sounding, and good political theater, but hardly in a form that people will readily appreciate and understand.

Just as a means of comparitive value and ranking, I've listed the GDP - purchasing power parity 2013 Rankings of the EU, the US, and a few of the Arab League states, along with Israel and the West Bank:

1 European Union $15,700,000,000,000 2012 est.
2 United States....$15,660,000,000,000 2012 est.
23 Saudi Arabia..........$740,500,000,000 2012 est.
27 Egypt....................$537,800,000,000 2012 est
50 UAE......................$271,200,000,000 2012 est.
51 Israel....................$247,900,000,000 2012 est.
60 Kuwait..................$165,900,000,000 2012 est.
61 Iraq......................$155,400,000,000 2012 est.
69 Syria.....................$107,600,000,000 2011 est.
76 Oman.....................$90,660,000,000 2012 est.
88 Lebanon.................$63,690,000,000 2012 est.
91 Yemen...................$57,760,000,000 2012 est.
105 Jordan...................$38,670,000,000 2012 est.
155 West Bank ...............$8,020,000,000 2011 est.​

SOURCE: CIA World Factbook 2013

(COMMENT)

The Palestinian has a non-mutual symbiotic relationship between its regional neighbors, where it benefits at the expense of the others. The West Bank has very limited financial support from its regional neighbors because they receive no mutual benefit and have no expectation that the future will bring otherwise; even if the Occupation Force is totally withdrawn and Israeli Settlements are abandon.

The endorsement by SECSTATE Kerry, of the Saudi inspired Arab Peace Initiative of 2002, is probably a demonstration of how desperately the current Administration wants a settlement under its guiding hand. There is no possible way that the Saudi Plan is even remotely fair to the Israelis. And, that may actually be the purpose. There is no real benefit to the Arab League for a settlement. In fact, from a regional security standpoint, a Israeli-Palestinian Settlement may actually have a negative impact on the individual internal defense and development of each neighboring state. It presents even a greater threat when the (most likely outcome) Syrian situation is factored into the assessment. That will set the stage for the domination of the corridor into Lebanon and a fundamental Shi'a branch of Islam (the official state religion of Iran) from the East to the North.

While the Arab will rejoice in the beginning, they will grow to adjust to the impact of Shi'a Law in every segment of their community.

Most Respectfully,
R

Rocco...what possible relevance does the ratio of US aid to Israel compared to US GDP offer? The figure you quoted was $118 billion in bilateral assistance given to Israel since 1976. Had that amount been divided proportionally between Arab and Jew over the last 37 years, would there be fewer Jews living outside the Green Line?

 

[docmauser1]

There are roughly equal numbers of Jews and Arabs living between the River and the sea and every one is subject to laws, civil and military, that are authored, interpreted, and enforced by Jews. If you don't enfranchise all Arabs living under Jewish laws, your racist Jewish state will fall in exactly the same way White South Africa disappeared two decades ago.

Together with bread, of course.

 

[Moonglow]

Maybe Israel should take on a new allies, like Russia and see where that gets them.

 

[docmauser1]

Israel must make every attempt to make a good faith effort. It must be absolutely clear, such that any reasonable and prudent man can see that every attempt was made to come to an agreement that was not one-sided. There must be room for compromise and reasonable risk.

Same old, same old.

 

[RoccoR]

georgephillip, et al,

I disagree (but then - don't we always!).

georgephillip, et al,

I think there is something wrong with your analysis.

Mearshimer and Walt give the impression it's Israel that qualifies as an unaffordable parasite for the US taxpayer, at least. Since 1976 it has not been the case that the HoAP has received the largest annual amount of direct US economic and military assistance.

How many "Jews" were living on the West Bank in 1976?

I think it's fair to say the number would be much less than what it is today if the HoAP had received $8 million a day since Carter's election.

It wasn't the Arabs who evicted 650,000 Jews from their homes in 1948 while stealing 60% of the land between the River and the sea; maybe that's where the recent lack of trust took root?

(QUESTION)

$8M a day ($2.9B/year); Since the Carter Administration (1977 - 1981), before adjustment to current dollar values, is approximately $93B.

(OBSERVATION)

To date, the US has provided Israel $118 billion (current, or non-inflation-adjusted, dollars) in bilateral assistance.

SOURCE: Congressional Research Service Report: RL33222

Updated 12/18/2013
Key economic statistics
......................................................This week.....Month ago.....Year ago
Gross Domestic Product (billions)......$16890.8.....$16857.6......$15797.4​

SOURCE: Gross Domestic Product (GDP) is the value of all goods and services produced in the U.S.

The entire 32 years of aid, since the end of the Jimmy Carter Administration, amounts to seven tenths of one per cent of last weeks of the US GDP for one year (2013). Putting the amount in a daily form ($8M/day) is dramatic sounding, and good political theater, but hardly in a form that people will readily appreciate and understand.

Just as a means of comparitive value and ranking, I've listed the GDP - purchasing power parity 2013 Rankings of the EU, the US, and a few of the Arab League states, along with Israel and the West Bank:

1 European Union $15,700,000,000,000 2012 est.
2 United States....$15,660,000,000,000 2012 est.
23 Saudi Arabia..........$740,500,000,000 2012 est.
27 Egypt....................$537,800,000,000 2012 est
50 UAE......................$271,200,000,000 2012 est.
51 Israel....................$247,900,000,000 2012 est.
60 Kuwait..................$165,900,000,000 2012 est.
61 Iraq......................$155,400,000,000 2012 est.
69 Syria.....................$107,600,000,000 2011 est.
76 Oman.....................$90,660,000,000 2012 est.
88 Lebanon.................$63,690,000,000 2012 est.
91 Yemen...................$57,760,000,000 2012 est.
105 Jordan...................$38,670,000,000 2012 est.
155 West Bank ...............$8,020,000,000 2011 est.​

SOURCE: CIA World Factbook 2013

(COMMENT)

The Palestinian has a non-mutual symbiotic relationship between its regional neighbors, where it benefits at the expense of the others. The West Bank has very limited financial support from its regional neighbors because they receive no mutual benefit and have no expectation that the future will bring otherwise; even if the Occupation Force is totally withdrawn and Israeli Settlements are abandon.

The endorsement by SECSTATE Kerry, of the Saudi inspired Arab Peace Initiative of 2002, is probably a demonstration of how desperately the current Administration wants a settlement under its guiding hand. There is no possible way that the Saudi Plan is even remotely fair to the Israelis. And, that may actually be the purpose. There is no real benefit to the Arab League for a settlement. In fact, from a regional security standpoint, a Israeli-Palestinian Settlement may actually have a negative impact on the individual internal defense and development of each neighboring state. It presents even a greater threat when the (most likely outcome) Syrian situation is factored into the assessment. That will set the stage for the domination of the corridor into Lebanon and a fundamental Shi'a branch of Islam (the official state religion of Iran) from the East to the North.

While the Arab will rejoice in the beginning, they will grow to adjust to the impact of Shi'a Law in every segment of their community.

Rocco...what possible relevance does the ratio of US aid to Israel compared to US GDP offer? The figure you quoted was $118 billion in bilateral assistance given to Israel since 1976. Had that amount been divided proportionally between Arab and Jew over the last 37 years, would there be fewer Jews living outside the Green Line?

(COMMENT)

The nature of investment has several key components to it; but there are two that have a very strong impact.

The first is, that countries don't invest unless they have discretionary disposable income. And that requires deep pockets (in country terms a large GDP). From a charitable aspect, you do not donate more then you can afford to dispose of without appreciable finance pain. And then it is prioritized.

The second is the expectation of a return on the investment (ROI). I can remember back in 2002, when the Invasion of Iraq was first being considered. I (usually I was in the minor as I am here) often argued that the US cannot argue anything favorable on the base expectation that in the end, the US would have a strong ally and would receive an ROI from a mutually beneficial, long-term relationship. Nor, could the US argue that the US would come-out either militarily or economically stronger. In fact, there was no reasonable exception that the conflict would see the US politically, economically or military stronger.​

The same considerations are true in terms of how the donor nations respond to the need of Israel, and or, the Arab League puppet (the Palestinians). You have to look at the donor contributions facets on the basis of the discretionary disposable income (the yard stick being the GDP) and the potential for an ROI. While the US makes contributions to both the Israel and Palestinian sides, the 15-member European Union, having a combined GDP equal to that of the US makes no similar investment to the process. Why, because they do not see it as a wise investment (for either side); there is not expectation of an ROI over and above what they would expect given no donation. Similarly, they see a risk in external prioritization beyond their internal immediate needs (a lack of discretionary disposable income better used elsewhere).

Similarly, in 2006, the energy rich Arab leaders met in Khartoum and pledged $50M a month to the Palestinians. By 2010, Abbas’s plea to Arab states: Show me the money! Why? (Rhetorical) Because the ROI, relative to regional security is better if they don't contribute then if they do contribute.

It is all a matter of what you can afford and what you stand to gain.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[docmauser1]

You tend to forget that Palestine was a country with defined international borders. There was a Palestinian nationality and Palestinian citizens.

So, who was that shakh, sultan, emir, pasha, effendi, president, prime-minister of that "counrty" to have "international borders" to back the claim up?

 

[docmauser1]

Had that amount been divided proportionally between Arab and Jew over the last 37 years, would there be fewer Jews living outside the Green Line?

Don't palstanians steal enough as it is?

 

[aris2chat]

Putin Backs Israel's Security Needs in Middle East
Arutz Sheva *- 8 hours ago
... Putin did allegedly promise to ensure Israel's security in the region. ... ​​it clear to Netanyahu that Russia will not do anything to harm Israel.

Maybe Israel should take on a new allies, like Russia and see where that gets them.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore; et al,

I have to chuckle a bit here. (Sorry!)

You tend to forget that Palestine was a country with defined international borders. There was a Palestinian nationality and Palestinian citizens.

So, who was that shakh, sultan, emir, pasha, effendi, president, prime-minister of that "counrty" to have "international borders" to back the claim up?

(COMMENT)

All those borders were created by "foreigners" without consulting the indigenous population. I thought that nothing derived from the process used by the post-Ottoman foreigners was valid?

There were no borders created by the Palestinians.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore; et al,

I have to chuckle a bit here. (Sorry!)

You tend to forget that Palestine was a country with defined international borders. There was a Palestinian nationality and Palestinian citizens.

So, who was that shakh, sultan, emir, pasha, effendi, president, prime-minister of that "counrty" to have "international borders" to back the claim up?

(COMMENT)

All those borders were created by "foreigners" without consulting the indigenous population. I thought that nothing derived from the process used by the post-Ottoman foreigners was valid?

There were no borders created by the Palestinians.

Most Respectfully,
R

Was there a reason or point to this post?

 

[Kondor3]

"...Ah yes, the permanent and perpetual 'Palestinian Victim' defense. It is never the fault of the Palestinian. They always did the right thing. They never did anything wrong. They had a perfect right to pledge a solemn oath of genocide on the Jewish People. They are freedom fighters and not terrorists.

The Zionist did this and the Zionist did that. It is always the Zionist who are at fault. Most Respectfully, R

 

[Jroc]

Kerry to Force Security Plan on Netanyahu

Report shows Kerry's staff plans to 'attack' Netanyahu in January, make him submit to US arrangement uprooting Jordan Valley communities

US Secretary of State John Kerry appears to be pressing a national plan, devised in Washington DC, upon Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu. The proposal comes as part of peace talks with the Palestinian Authority (PA), and includes uprooting Jewish communities from the Jordan Valley.

Kerry's staff rented 50 rooms at a luxurious Jerusalem hotel for January, in order to "attack" Netanyahu and demand that he accept the US plan, reported Yedioth Aharonoth on Friday.

The plan, which Arutz Sheva analyst Mark Langfan has called a "death-trap" for Israel, would let the country for 10 years partially retain the 15 kilometer (9 mile) wide strip of the Jordan Valley as a security zone. In fact, the plan doesn't even meet the minimum "defensible" Israeli borders as determined by the US Joint Chiefs of Staff (USJCoS) in 1967, even according to military realities of that time.

Kerry to Force Security Plan on Netanyahu - News from America - News - Israel National News

 

[Hossfly]

Kerry to Force Security Plan on Netanyahu

Report shows Kerry's staff plans to 'attack' Netanyahu in January, make him submit to US arrangement uprooting Jordan Valley communities

US Secretary of State John Kerry appears to be pressing a national plan, devised in Washington DC, upon Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu. The proposal comes as part of peace talks with the Palestinian Authority (PA), and includes uprooting Jewish communities from the Jordan Valley.

Kerry's staff rented 50 rooms at a luxurious Jerusalem hotel for January, in order to "attack" Netanyahu and demand that he accept the US plan, reported Yedioth Aharonoth on Friday.

The plan, which Arutz Sheva analyst Mark Langfan has called a "death-trap" for Israel, would let the country for 10 years partially retain the 15 kilometer (9 mile) wide strip of the Jordan Valley as a security zone. In fact, the plan doesn't even meet the minimum "defensible" Israeli borders as determined by the US Joint Chiefs of Staff (USJCoS) in 1967, even according to military realities of that time.

Kerry to Force Security Plan on Netanyahu - News from America - News - Israel National News

Bibi should have tossed Kerry off that balcony.

 

[Jroc]

Kerry to Force Security Plan on Netanyahu

Report shows Kerry's staff plans to 'attack' Netanyahu in January, make him submit to US arrangement uprooting Jordan Valley communities

US Secretary of State John Kerry appears to be pressing a national plan, devised in Washington DC, upon Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu. The proposal comes as part of peace talks with the Palestinian Authority (PA), and includes uprooting Jewish communities from the Jordan Valley.

Kerry's staff rented 50 rooms at a luxurious Jerusalem hotel for January, in order to "attack" Netanyahu and demand that he accept the US plan, reported Yedioth Aharonoth on Friday.

The plan, which Arutz Sheva analyst Mark Langfan has called a "death-trap" for Israel, would let the country for 10 years partially retain the 15 kilometer (9 mile) wide strip of the Jordan Valley as a security zone. In fact, the plan doesn't even meet the minimum "defensible" Israeli borders as determined by the US Joint Chiefs of Staff (USJCoS) in 1967, even according to military realities of that time.

Kerry to Force Security Plan on Netanyahu - News from America - News - Israel National News

Bibi should have tossed Kerry off that balcony.

 

[georgephillip]

Had that amount been divided proportionally between Arab and Jew over the last 37 years, would there be fewer Jews living outside the Green Line?

Don't palstanians steal enough as it is?

How much land or water have the Palestinians stolen from you, Drivel?

 

[Kondor3]

Kerry to Force Security Plan on Netanyahu

Report shows Kerry's staff plans to 'attack' Netanyahu in January, make him submit to US arrangement uprooting Jordan Valley communities

US Secretary of State John Kerry appears to be pressing a national plan, devised in Washington DC, upon Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu. The proposal comes as part of peace talks with the Palestinian Authority (PA), and includes uprooting Jewish communities from the Jordan Valley.

Kerry's staff rented 50 rooms at a luxurious Jerusalem hotel for January, in order to "attack" Netanyahu and demand that he accept the US plan, reported Yedioth Aharonoth on Friday.

The plan, which Arutz Sheva analyst Mark Langfan has called a "death-trap" for Israel, would let the country for 10 years partially retain the 15 kilometer (9 mile) wide strip of the Jordan Valley as a security zone. In fact, the plan doesn't even meet the minimum "defensible" Israeli borders as determined by the US Joint Chiefs of Staff (USJCoS) in 1967, even according to military realities of that time.

Kerry to Force Security Plan on Netanyahu - News from America - News - Israel National News

Bibi should have tossed Kerry off that balcony.

I wonder if Bibi will tell Kerry: "Kiss my ass." ?

 

[docmauser1]

Had that amount been divided proportionally between Arab and Jew over the last 37 years, would there be fewer Jews living outside the Green Line?

Don't palstanians steal enough as it is?

How much land or water have the Palestinians stolen from you, Drivel?

Non sequitur drivel. Typical.

 

[georgephillip]

Don't palstanians steal enough as it is?

How much land or water have the Palestinians stolen from you, Drivel?

Non sequitur drivel. Typical.

"By the end of the 1948 war, hundreds of entire villages had not only been depopulated but obliterated, their houses blown up or bulldozed.

"While many of the sites are difficult to access, to this day the observant traveller of Israeli roads and highways can see traces of their presence that would escape the notice of the casual passer-by: a fenced-in area, often surmounting a gentle hill, of olive and other fruit trees left untended, of cactus hedges and domesticated plants run wild.

"Now and then a few crumbled houses are left standing, a neglected mosque or church, collapsing walls along the ghost of a village lane, but in the vast majority of cases, all that remains is a scattering of stones and rubble across a forgotten landscape.”

How much Arab land did you steal, Drivel?

https://occupiedpalestine.wordpress.com/2010/10/10/map-of-ethnically-cleansed-destroyed-and-excisting-arab-villages-in-israel-palestine/