An Extra Million Dollars?

[Article 15]

But seriously going straight to school after graduation was one of the bigger mistakes or misjudgments I've made so far.

So many students are "forced" into going to college straight out of high school because there doesn't seem to be too many viable options.

I TOTALLY hear that ... but I also don't see the big deal in taking some time off before going to college.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Were you raised in a household where your mom or dad told you that in order for you to be successful that you had to go to college? Aside from the status factor – to be able to say that you have a degree, do you come out ahead financially after college, considering all the debts and the time you put in? Would you have been better off going straight into the labor market in an area that you knew and liked?

I would like your opinion, especially from those who didn’t go the college route. Here’s what brought up the question:

You can't even get a job at Federal Express as a delivery person without a college degree.

Stossel's a putz.

And it's not so much that you have to have a college degree to be successful, but a) a college degree gives you EDUCATION and information; and b) it gives you opportunities that you might not otherwise have, which equals OPTIONS.

Why would anyone cut off their options?

Unless of course they're anti-education.

Ah, your usual easygoing self. Must be having another bad day at Bialystock-and-Blume.
Why do you appear so incensed by this article? Having second thoughts about career choice?

If you look at the data in the article, it seems that many are not pleased with college, or their particlular college.

Your reference to Stossel is neither called for nor deserved. I was astounded to find that the "$1 million over a lifetime" is not true. I'm always willing to learn new things, and based on your reaction to the article, it seems that is not true of yourself. So where is the indication that college did you some good?

Or is the reaction to change simply age-based?

 

[PoliticalChic]

But seriously going straight to school after graduation was one of the bigger mistakes or misjudgments I've made so far.

So many students are "forced" into going to college straight out of high school because there doesn't seem to be too many viable options.

I TOTALLY hear that ... but I also don't see the big deal in taking some time off before going to college.

I think some parents have a fear that if their kids don't go straight to college out of high school that they many never go. So many parents love to brag about their kids going to college (even the meaning of a bachelor's degree has diminished greatly).

 

[jillian]

Ah, your usual easygoing self. Must be having another bad day at Bialystock-and-Blume.
Why do you appear so incensed by this article? Having second thoughts about career choice?

If you look at the data in the article, it seems that many are not pleased with college, or their particlular college.

Your reference to Stossel is neither called for nor deserved. I was astounded to find that the "$1 million over a lifetime" is not true. I'm always willing to learn new things, and based on your reaction to the article, it seems that is not true of yourself. So where is the indication that college did you some good?

Or is the reaction to change simply age-based?

Bialystock and Blume? Weren't they theatre producers? Or is it just the jewish name? Just curious.

BTW, I love my job, so do keep the snarkiness to yourself. It's unbecoming.

I'm not incensed by the article. I think it's stupid. Why do I think it's stupid? Because my husband did "some" college and spent years trying to move up. There are about 10 career paths he would have loved, all of them would have paid him more than he makes now... IF he had a college degree. And my dad stqarted college at 30 and busted his butt to get a degree... which he needed to get the executive positions that ultimately let him be a successful entrepreneur.

So you'll forgive me for not having patience for naivete and ignorance and hypocrisy from John Stossel who a) got a B.A. at PRINCETON UNIVERSITY in psychology and b) makes millions of dollars a year because he had a degree from Princeton.

Just cause Stossel says so doesn't make what he says true. I can guarantee that my degree will earn me more over my lifetime than the AVERAGE person who didn't get themselves educated.

And I'm sorry you have such contempt for education. But keep being a cheerleader for ignorance. No one needs to know the earth is more than 6,000years old, right?

What change? Regressive dark ages thinking like yours? I'd like to say it's intelligence that tells me to stay as far away from that as possible. Thanks anyway. BTW, I'm not sure I'm that much older than you. And if you're that young, at least it explains your ignorance.

It's all good.

 

[Article 15]

So many students are "forced" into going to college straight out of high school because there doesn't seem to be too many viable options.

I TOTALLY hear that ... but I also don't see the big deal in taking some time off before going to college.

I think some parents have a fear that if their kids don't go straight to college out of high school that they many never go. So many parents love to brag about their kids going to college (even the meaning of a bachelor's degree has diminished greatly).

I know, right? Heaven forbid they deviate from the cookie cutter path in life.

They'll be lost forever!!!!

But I admit a degree does have it's merit and it certainly opens doors ... it would be nice if mine were complete.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Ah, your usual easygoing self. Must be having another bad day at Bialystock-and-Blume.
Why do you appear so incensed by this article? Having second thoughts about career choice?

If you look at the data in the article, it seems that many are not pleased with college, or their particlular college.

Your reference to Stossel is neither called for nor deserved. I was astounded to find that the "$1 million over a lifetime" is not true. I'm always willing to learn new things, and based on your reaction to the article, it seems that is not true of yourself. So where is the indication that college did you some good?

Or is the reaction to change simply age-based?

Bialystock and Blume? Weren't they theatre producers? Or is it just the jewish name? Just curious.

BTW, I love my job, so do keep the snarkiness to yourself. It's unbecoming.

I'm not incensed by the article. I think it's stupid. Why do I think it's stupid? Because my husband did "some" college and spent years trying to move up. There are about 10 career paths he would have loved, all of them would have paid him more than he makes now... IF he had a college degree.

So you'll forgive me for not having patience for naivete and ignorance and hypocrisy from John Stossel who a) got a B.A. at PRINCETON UNIVERSITY in psychology and b) makes millions of dollars a year because he had a degree from Princeton.

Just cause Stossel says so doesn't make what he says true. I can guarantee that my degree will earn me more over my lifetime than the AVERAGE person who didn't get themselves educated.

And I'm sorry you have such contempt for education. But keep being a cheerleader for ignorance. No one needs to know the earth is more than 6,000years old, right?

What change? Regressive dark ages thinking like yours? I'd like to say it's intelligence that tells me to stay as far away from that as possible. Thanks anyway. BTW, I'm not sure I'm that much older than you. And if you're that young, at least it explains your ignorance.

It's all good.

I think my next thread will be based on empathy, and charity... perhaps a telethon for one who deserves it: your husband. I can't imagine how he can get up each and every day knowing the locked-box-of-vituperation just next to him.

Wow. At first I thought I hit a nerve, but then I realized that it's just plain ol' Jillian. (I almost used the phase 'normal Jullian', but that would have been an oxymoron). I love jousting with you because it makes me look sweet and demure. Thanks.

This may be another sore point with you, but if I may use a turn of phrase, let's get to the "mirror, mirror on the wall." The intelligent among us always find humor in glass-house-inhabitants, like yourself. How about referring to Stossel as a "putz", and then tellling me to "keep the snarkiness to yourself". It doesn't get any better.

By the way, how often do you pull out the old "stop picking on me because I'm Jewish"? (" Or is it just the jewish name?" BTW, I believe Jewish is capitalized -- or are you anti-Semitic?) Does it still work?

And although you claim to love your job, I think you should have considered acting. That first scene in Macbeth would have been PERFECT for you!

Seriously, I do feel that your husband should have been given a shot at the other careers that he would have liked, and I realize that there are injustices in this world. But that is not the point of this post. I believe that there may be as many valid choices as individuals. For some, college. For some, service then college. For some, vocational training. If one can deal with the status thing, it may prove the right path. BTW, Stossel said that, while many of his fellow students continued on to higher degrees, he chose to go into the labor market. I'm sure doors opened to a Princeton grad, but would they for a state college grad as well?

And what about the massive debt that could be involved? I resent the political-academic axis that pushes this route, but doesn't cut tuition even when there are billions in endowment. But I bet we can find a disagreemenet there, too.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Were you raised in a household where your mom or dad told you that in order for you to be successful that you had to go to college? Aside from the status factor – to be able to say that you have a degree, do you come out ahead financially after college, considering all the debts and the time you put in? Would you have been better off going straight into the labor market in an area that you knew and liked?

I would like your opinion, especially from those who didn’t go the college route. Here’s what brought up the question:

You can't even get a job at Federal Express as a delivery person without a college degree.

No but you can franchise a route with Fed Ex and eventually have drivers working for you. My friend's brother makes 200k a year doing just that. he has no degree but a few business courses under his belt. mortgaged his soul to buy his first truck and now has 4.

And it's not so much that you have to have a college degree to be successful, but a) a college degree gives you EDUCATION and information; and b) it gives you opportunities that you might not otherwise have, which equals OPTIONS.

Why would anyone cut off their options?

Unless of course they're anti-education.

You can get an education working on a freighter. You can get an education traveling. Hell you can get an education in the library.

It's not the education, classes or degrees, it's what you do with what you have.

I always advise people who ask to find a way to work for themselves. there is not much in our secondary or post secondary education system that promotes that kind of thinking and quite frankly, it's a damn shame.

 

[editec]

Were you raised in a household where your mom or dad told you that in order for you to be successful that you had to go to college?

Yes.

Aside from the status factor – to be able to say that you have a degree, do you come out ahead financially after college, considering all the debts and the time you put in?

No, but I cannot blame that on having gone to college.

Would you have been better off going straight into the labor market in an area that you knew and liked?

Not really. The only areas I know and like are of an academic/intellectual bent. I regret not having studied economics, though. It's a terrible flaw in my overall education as an historian.

The College Scam
by John Stossel
January 29, 2009

A college diploma is supposed to be the ticket to the good life. Colleges and politicians tell students, "Your life will be much better if you go to college. On average during your lifetime you will earn a million dollars more if you get a bachelor's degree." Barack Obama, stumping on the campaign trail, said, "We expect all our children not only to graduate high school, but to graduate college."

Rachele Percel heard the promises. She borrowed big to pay about $24,000 a year to attend Rivier College in New Hampshire. She got a degree in human development. "I was told just to take out the loans and get the degree because when you graduate you're going to be able to get that good job and pay them off no problem," she told me for last week's "20/20."

But for three years she failed to find a decent job. Now she holds a low-level desk job doing work she says she could have done straight out of high school. And she's still $85,000 in debt. This month she had to move out of her apartment because she couldn't pay the rent.

The promise about college? "I definitely feel like it was a scam," says Rachele.

Her college wrote us that that many of its graduates have launched successful careers. But Rachele's problem isn't uncommon. A recent survey asked thousands of students: Would you go to your college again? About 40 percent said no.

Read full article at below link.

John Stossel : The College Scam - Townhall.com

If one does a cost analysis of college by majors, I suspect that what one would find is that some degrees offer a good return on investment and others do not.

And the fact that which degrees are rewarded has been changing dramatically in my lifetime certainly makes deciding which area to study problematic.

 

[RodISHI]

Were you raised in a household where your mom or dad told you that in order for you to be successful that you had to go to college? Aside from the status factor – to be able to say that you have a degree, do you come out ahead financially after college, considering all the debts and the time you put in? Would you have been better off going straight into the labor market in an area that you knew and liked?

I would like your opinion, especially from those who didn’t go the college route. Here’s what brought up the question:

The College Scam
by John Stossel
January 29, 2009

A college diploma is supposed to be the ticket to the good life. Colleges and politicians tell students, "Your life will be much better if you go to college. On average during your lifetime you will earn a million dollars more if you get a bachelor's degree." Barack Obama, stumping on the campaign trail, said, "We expect all our children not only to graduate high school, but to graduate college."

Rachele Percel heard the promises. She borrowed big to pay about $24,000 a year to attend Rivier College in New Hampshire. She got a degree in human development. "I was told just to take out the loans and get the degree because when you graduate you're going to be able to get that good job and pay them off no problem," she told me for last week's "20/20."

But for three years she failed to find a decent job. Now she holds a low-level desk job doing work she says she could have done straight out of high school. And she's still $85,000 in debt. This month she had to move out of her apartment because she couldn't pay the rent.

The promise about college? "I definitely feel like it was a scam," says Rachele.

Her college wrote us that that many of its graduates have launched successful careers. But Rachele's problem isn't uncommon. A recent survey asked thousands of students: Would you go to your college again? About 40 percent said no.

Read full article at below link.

John Stossel : The College Scam - Townhall.com

I wasn't able to do the college route for various reasons. Left home before my twelfe birthday. Took a lot of hard knocks along the way. Would not go back and change any of it.

Self taught artist. At 23 started doing artwork for businesses. Within 8 years earned more per hour than most attorney's or doctor's out there. It was only part time but great fun and it has paid well over the years.

At twenty five started contracting services from storm damage repair for insurance companies to services for DOT. Eventually provided jobs for another forty souls out there.

The contracting business rated a BB2 with D&B in less than ten years. With the contracting business I started Rod bought his heavy equipment free and clear, with my share I paid for property investments that eventually paid fairly well.

We had a lot of family time along the way.

At forty we owned everything free and clear from our own 5,000 sq ft house to rentals, property and the heavy equipment. I semi retired for a few years Rod continued doing his thing with his heavy equipment.

Started a mining operation.

Literally went from rags to riches back to rags again after the last adventure (the mining operation that I refused to sell out and certain peoples took me out). The potential of the mine was easily several million a year.

I have an awesome husband/partner. That helped more than anything in the fact he was my backbone when I was ready to call it quits many times.

Down side. Been accused many of times over the years of a lot of different things. The normal was we were drug dealers and mob related to I slept my way to the top. I assured a one of rumor weeds that was on one of my jobsites if "I was inclined to do that it I would surely have chosen a different line of work don't ya think?"

 

[Care4all]

There's something to be said for "finding yourself", but in the end you will have to receive a degree to do well, unless you are just an awesome natural born entrepreneurial type.

natural born entrepeneur like Bill Gates, who made his billions without a degree....but he is an exception.

When i was a child, a manager of an area of business within a department store, could be had, without a college degree, with A LOT of hard work....the ladder could be climbed.

Back in the late 90's we were requiring any department manager hired, to have a college degree....

They actually knew LESS than those manager that had worked their way up the ladder, and were paid 28k right out of the college we recruited them from, which was about even up to 10% more than we were paying our average manager that worked their way up to the Manager's position.

I thought it was absolutely ridiculous that the corporation i worked for took that stance in new hirees....

What in the world did they need college graduates to be sales managers for....?

These college grads, unless they worked their way in to the Corporate Buyer's office which is like a camel making it thru and eye of a needle with so very FEW Buyer's positions available compared to sales managers, were NEVER going to make enough money to pay off their 60k in student loans until old age, at the kind of pay these people were making?

My nephew, right out of hs became an auto mechanic, got a job with a shop that he apprenticed at, while he went to the local jr college to get his associates degree....

He found out, that you could no longer work your way up to Foreman of the shop, that they now required a 4 year degree to be an automechanic foreman....

He was making A LOT of money as an automechanic, but he just didn't see himself as being just a mechanic all his life and not the BIG BOSS, so he continued to work on getting his college degrees....then a job opened up for a hillsborough county EMT at the fire department....he intervued, passed the drug test, (which is amazing since his mom is still to this day, a drug addict on the streets, my mother in law raised him...) they liked him, sent him to some technical type course and he started at the bottom of the ladder at the Fire Dept as an EMT....continued going to college, got his associate and then went on to get his bachelors degree, and now is a fireman with that department, making more than my husband is pulling in now, with super benefits!

 

[PoliticalChic]

[Stossel : The College Scam - Townhall.com[/URL][/quote]

If one does a cost analysis of college by majors, I suspect that what one would find is that some degrees offer a good return on investment and others do not.

And the fact that which degrees are rewarded has been changing dramatically in my lifetime certainly makes deciding which area to study problematic.[/QUOTE]


So true. I believe that we are doing a great disservice to students who are not made aware of this fact. We tell kids to just pick what they like and "you'll never do a day of work in your life." We need to make it a bit more clear.

The government makes health benefits known for various diets, but we rarely see the same thing for career choices. Sociology majors rarely see the same results as physics majors.

 

[Care4all]

oh, and my nephew borrowed no money for the college degree...

 

[Care4all]

[Stossel : The College Scam - Townhall.com[/URL]

If one does a cost analysis of college by majors, I suspect that what one would find is that some degrees offer a good return on investment and others do not.

And the fact that which degrees are rewarded has been changing dramatically in my lifetime certainly makes deciding which area to study problematic.

So true. I believe that we are doing a great disservice to students who are not made aware of this fact. We tell kids to just pick what they like and "you'll never do a day of work in your life." We need to make it a bit more clear.

The government makes health benefits known for various diets, but we rarely see the same thing for career choices. Sociology majors rarely see the same results as physics majors.

If i had a child of college age, i would suggest that they should get in to the medical field....expecially with all the boomers hitting their senior years where doctors are used the most.

Not that they need to be a doctor, but even the technical schools for phlebotomists, and massage therapy, medical technologists, and lab technicians, and nurses and nurses aids...

and positions like that, which may not cost as much for the schooling on some and most certainly guaranteed a job for the next 40 years.

Otherwise, unless specifically focused, like a Law Degree or Medical Degree, college may never pay for itself, now a days....

College was reasonable when i was young and every kid who went to college that i personally knew, their parents paid for it.....my parents paid for it for my sister and me when we went....

Along with health care costs, colleges have gone up with double digit increases, well ABOVE the cost of living rate increase, for nearly 10 years now, something is wrong with that...imho.

Care

 

[editec]

Thanks for your response.
What age group are you referring to?
Would it apply to students today that are of college age?

This current economic meltdown might be an impetus for more people to head right into the workforce.

I also suspect that children are not aware what kind of debt they will be incurring since colleges (with billion $ endowments) won't be giving any breaks anytime soon.

I have a son who just turned 18 so most of the people i referenced are my age, early to mid forties, or older.

My son does not really have a clue about what he wants to do. he is working and taking classes part time at a local state u. I have no problem with this.

He is really into music and is a pretty good guitar player but there really is not a future as a musician for him other than a garage band or local club gig and that's cool but it's not a living.

I advised him to work, try different things get a gig as an intern at a radio station things like that and I also advised him to travel.

I am of the opinion that real world experiences and not a mere continuation of high school will do him the most good right now.

I have a 19 year old son with the same symptoms---He's knocking out the basic requirements in a Jr College BUT remains clueless on how to survive on his own.

Me too.

My son had dropped out, is working at a McJob and is now realizing that he wants to go back to school.

But for what he has yet to decide.

And for a lot of us, that is the problem.

Few 19 year olds know enough about who they are to decide what they want to do.

As far as I can tell, my son's greatest skills are as a writer. He has a real way with words, one that far exceeds my skills.

Not exactly a talent that is guaranteed to make one a living, that.

 

[RodISHI]

We taught the children everything we could as they were growing up. I think most children in families with family owned operated businesses do that. Our son ran a grader when he was eleven, learned how to pour and finish concrete etc... He now owns and operates his own small firm that does specialty contracting.

Our daughter went to college yet she could not decide what she wanted to be when she grew up. She took on the role any of my employees would have when she was fourteen, managed my company when she was nineteen, she was very good at it but decided it was to much work. She is a certified firefighter and an EMT. She has worked as a firefighter and worked as an EMT while going to college but with two young boys it was too much for her.

With her experience and education she could write her own paycheck but she is happy at the moment working as a service writer because she enjoys the quiet life of living with her children in a rural setting. Eventually she says her dream is going back to finish her degrees to be a doctor.

They both got to follow the path of live, learn and decide what suits them best.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Were you raised in a household where your mom or dad told you that in order for you to be successful that you had to go to college? Aside from the status factor – to be able to say that you have a degree, do you come out ahead financially after college, considering all the debts and the time you put in? Would you have been better off going straight into the labor market in an area that you knew and liked?

I would like your opinion, especially from those who didn’t go the college route. Here’s what brought up the question:

The College Scam
by John Stossel
January 29, 2009

A college diploma is supposed to be the ticket to the good life. Colleges and politicians tell students, "Your life will be much better if you go to college. On average during your lifetime you will earn a million dollars more if you get a bachelor's degree." Barack Obama, stumping on the campaign trail, said, "We expect all our children not only to graduate high school, but to graduate college."

Rachele Percel heard the promises. She borrowed big to pay about $24,000 a year to attend Rivier College in New Hampshire. She got a degree in human development. "I was told just to take out the loans and get the degree because when you graduate you're going to be able to get that good job and pay them off no problem," she told me for last week's "20/20."

But for three years she failed to find a decent job. Now she holds a low-level desk job doing work she says she could have done straight out of high school. And she's still $85,000 in debt. This month she had to move out of her apartment because she couldn't pay the rent.

The promise about college? "I definitely feel like it was a scam," says Rachele.

Her college wrote us that that many of its graduates have launched successful careers. But Rachele's problem isn't uncommon. A recent survey asked thousands of students: Would you go to your college again? About 40 percent said no.

Read full article at below link.

John Stossel : The College Scam - Townhall.com

I wasn't able to do the college route for various reasons. Left home before my twelfe birthday. Took a lot of hard knocks along the way. Would not go back and change any of it.

Self taught artist. At 23 started doing artwork for businesses. Within 8 years earned more per hour than most attorney's or doctor's out there. It was only part time but great fun and it has paid well over the years.

At twenty five started contracting services from storm damage repair for insurance companies to services for DOT. Eventually provided jobs for another forty souls out there.

The contracting business rated a BB2 with D&B in less than ten years. With the contracting business I started Rod bought his heavy equipment free and clear, with my share I paid for property investments that eventually paid fairly well.

We had a lot of family time along the way.

At forty we owned everything free and clear from our own 5,000 sq ft house to rentals, property and the heavy equipment. I semi retired for a few years Rod continued doing his thing with his heavy equipment.

Started a mining operation.

Literally went from rags to riches back to rags again after the last adventure (the mining operation that I refused to sell out and certain peoples took me out). The potential of the mine was easily several million a year.

I have an awesome husband/partner. That helped more than anything in the fact he was my backbone when I was ready to call it quits many times.

Down side. Been accused many of times over the years of a lot of different things. The normal was we were drug dealers and mob related to I slept my way to the top. I assured a one of rumor weeds that was on one of my jobsites if "I was inclined to do that it I would surely have chosen a different line of work don't ya think?"

Bravo! This is exactly the kind of answer I was interested in. Thanks.

 

[PoliticalChic]

oh, and my nephew borrowed no money for the college degree...

How did he managed that?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Me too.

My son had dropped out, is working at a McJob and is now realizing that he wants to go back to school.

But for what he has yet to decide.

And for a lot of us, that is the problem.

Few 19 year olds know enough about who they are to decide what they want to do.

As far as I can tell, my son's greatest skills are as a writer. He has a real way with words, one that far exceeds my skills.

Not exactly a talent that is guaranteed to make one a living, that.

There's nothing like real work experience to give you that wake up call. Perhaps if your son is talented he will continue with the writing on the side. It is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to make a living as a writer especially if he is a fiction writer.

 

[Care4all]

oh, and my nephew borrowed no money for the college degree...

How did he managed that?

The first 2 years, which took 4 years, he was an auto mechanic and made enough to pay for the local college himself, he lived with my mother in law, who essentially was his mom, for free...

The next 2 years, which also took four years, the fire dept had an increased education program that paid a good portion of his degree and also, he was making decent money and still living with my mother in law, for free, until he got married, about a year after his degree....

my sister in law, had him at 14 years old, married the boy who fathered him, he later went to prison and.....she later became a drug addict and still is one, on the streets today....my mother in law, reared him as her own child....not a grand child....my husband thought of him as a younger brother....

Great kid/adult.....greatful my sister in law had him and did not abort him....she, is a loser though....has been her whole life, with just a couple of years of being on the wagon and off alcohol and drugs....and during that time period....she was the most lovely woman, smart as can be, with a great personality and showed great love towards Daniel, but outside of those few years, she's been wasted.

care

 

[del]

Were you raised in a household where your mom or dad told you that in order for you to be successful that you had to go to college? Aside from the status factor – to be able to say that you have a degree, do you come out ahead financially after college, considering all the debts and the time you put in? Would you have been better off going straight into the labor market in an area that you knew and liked?

I would like your opinion, especially from those who didn’t go the college route. Here’s what brought up the question:

You can't even get a job at Federal Express as a delivery person without a college degree.

Stossel's a putz.

And it's not so much that you have to have a college degree to be successful, but a) a college degree gives you EDUCATION and information; and b) it gives you opportunities that you might not otherwise have, which equals OPTIONS.

Why would anyone cut off their options?

Unless of course they're anti-education.

and that should tell you exactly how meaningful a degree is now.