Unrest reported in Libya

[Intense]

The F-15 was supporting the Rebels, Einstein.

 

[JBeukema]

Did the US thank the people who helped them?
No they shot them!!!

Channel 4 News International Editor, Lindsey Hilsum, says that the villagers were shot when a US helicopter picked up the pilot who had ejected from the F-15E Eagle plane after it experienced a mechanical failure.

The US aircraft crashed on Monday night and was found in a field outside Benghazi and landed in rebel-held territory.

The local Libyans who were injured in the rescue mission are currently in hospital. They are the first confirmed casualities of allied operations, almost four days after operations began. At the time of writing, no one had died as a result of the gunfire.


Lindsey Hilsum has been in the hospital where some of the injured were taken. She has spoken to the father of a young boy who expects to have his leg amputated due to a bullet wound.

Six Libyan villagers shot by US team rescuing pilot - Channel 4 News

U.S. rescue team shoot six Libyan civilians rushing to greet downed American fighter crew

Read more: Libya war: US rescue team shoot 6 civilians rushing to greet downed F-15 crew | Mail Online

They must have appeared to the rescue team to be hostiles approaching the site.

Your links imply the locals understand the confusion

Lindsey Hilsum has been in the hospital where some of the injured were taken. She has spoken to the father of a young boy who expects to have his leg amputated due to a bullet wound.
Gauging the reaction of locals in the area, she said: "the local Libyans do not seem resentful, they still want the coalition forces to keep operating."

Unfortunately, friendly fire is a reality of combat

 

[st.sheetrock]

Libya: Coalition airstrikes continue on Gaddafi forces, U.S. F-15 fighter jet crashes as criticism over no-fly zone mounts
Obaid Karki"hepcat"
Diehart Paulite Libertarian, Diogenesist, Spinoziste, Qutbist, Kabbalist, Pantheon, Hexalingual, Automath, Anti-tribal Gentile Cabal, unaffiliated to a STATE or Organized Religious Cult, incendiary wordsmith of rude wit. Serving synaptic pleasure for your leisure. Sex and politics and screeds and attitude. Welcome to the politics of distraction and bullshit. You want the truth? Take it easy, but take it. Take the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so Hep me God.

 

[idb]

At least it wasn't shot down - it broke down apparently.
Proudly Made In America

 

[Mad Scientist]

the air force was very keen to downplay the identities of both pilots who crashed f15 in wheat field, rebels delivered something to us airforce

Libya: Coalition airstrikes continue on Gaddafi forces, U.S. F-15 fighter jet crashes as criticism over no-fly zone mounts
Obaid Karki"hepcat"
Diehart Paulite Libertarian, Diogenesist, Spinoziste, Qutbist, Kabbalist, Pantheon, Hexalingual, Automath, Anti-tribal Gentile Cabal, unaffiliated to a STATE or Organized Religious Cult, incendiary wordsmith of rude wit. Serving synaptic pleasure for your leisure. Sex and politics and screeds and attitude. Welcome to the politics of distraction and bullshit. You want the truth? Take it easy, but take it. Take the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so Hep me God.

You've made two posts and neither one of them make any sense. Negged.

At least it wasn't shot down - it broke down apparently. Proudly Made In America

You got proof it wasn't shot down? Apparently the F-15 has a perfect record, no enemy has ever shot one down. If this is the first, then I could see the AF wanting to cover it up. Plus, the plane was bombed by us when it was on the ground, preventing whatever technology it had from falling into the wrong hands as well as covering up any signs of enemy fire.

 

[Intense]

Libya: Coalition airstrikes continue on Gaddafi forces, U.S. F-15 fighter jet crashes as criticism over no-fly zone mounts
Obaid Karki"hepcat"
Diehart Paulite Libertarian, Diogenesist, Spinoziste, Qutbist, Kabbalist, Pantheon, Hexalingual, Automath, Anti-tribal Gentile Cabal, unaffiliated to a STATE or Organized Religious Cult, incendiary wordsmith of rude wit. Serving synaptic pleasure for your leisure. Sex and politics and screeds and attitude. Welcome to the politics of distraction and bullshit. You want the truth? Take it easy, but take it. Take the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so Hep me God.

Your perspective is too Totalitarian to know the Truth if it bit you in the Ass.

 

[Intense]

the air force was very keen to downplay the identities of both pilots who crashed f15 in wheat field, rebels delivered something to us airforce

Libya: Coalition airstrikes continue on Gaddafi forces, U.S. F-15 fighter jet crashes as criticism over no-fly zone mounts
Obaid Karki"hepcat"
Diehart Paulite Libertarian, Diogenesist, Spinoziste, Qutbist, Kabbalist, Pantheon, Hexalingual, Automath, Anti-tribal Gentile Cabal, unaffiliated to a STATE or Organized Religious Cult, incendiary wordsmith of rude wit. Serving synaptic pleasure for your leisure. Sex and politics and screeds and attitude. Welcome to the politics of distraction and bullshit. You want the truth? Take it easy, but take it. Take the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so Hep me God.

You've made two posts and neither one of them make any sense. Negged.

At least it wasn't shot down - it broke down apparently. Proudly Made In America

You got proof it wasn't shot down? Apparently the F-15 has a perfect record, no enemy has ever shot one down. If this is the first, then I could see the AF wanting to cover it up. Plus, the plane was bombed by us when it was on the ground, preventing whatever technology it had from falling into the wrong hands as well as covering up any signs of enemy fire.

We may never know the truth of that, which makes it silly to take either position with authority. The Rebels did accidentally shoot down one of their own planes the other day.

 

[Intense]

Mega Merged.

 

[High_Gravity]

Libya's Ragtag Rebels: Why They Fight

Remember 'Comical Ali,' the Iraqi Information Minister who claimed that Saddam Hussein's troops were winning the war even as U.S. tanks rolled into Baghdad? Meet his Benghazi cousin, Khaled al-Sayeh. It's three days into Operation Odyssey Dawn, and the military spokesman for the Libyan rebels is brimming with bravado. Thanks in part to the allied aerial campaign, with sorties flown by seven nations, he tells journalists that rebel forces have regained control of two of the four main entrances to the strategic town of Ajdabiyah, which they lost to Muammar Gaddafi's troops the previous week. Now, he says, the rebels are bypassing the enemy and cutting off its supply route. Soon, he promises, the government troops will run out of ammunition. "We are surrounding Gaddafi's forces," he says.

Consulting no notes, al-Sayeh rattles off a string of statistics that suggest the war is going against the tyrant in Tripoli: Rebels and allied airpower have destroyed all but 11 of the 80 tanks that had been moving on Benghazi; 10 have been captured intact, along with 20 pickup trucks, two armored vehicles and another fitted with radar gear. Anywhere from 400 to 600 government troops have been killed.



It all sounds most reassuring, until you drive to the front line between the rebels and government forces. There, 6 miles (10 km) from Ajdabiyah, the mood among rebel fighters is more tentative than triumphant. They are poorly armed. They have AK-47s, a few heavy machine guns mounted on trucks and some rocket-propelled-grenade launchers. Buffeted by a desert wind that whips sand into their eyes, young men in cars and pickup trucks stage impromptu cavalry charges toward the enemy, only to fall back in panic when fired upon. For all al-Sayeh's boasting, Gaddafi's loyalists still have plenty of tanks and artillery.

"We went about three or four kilometers forward ... but then we came back because they were bombarding us," says Ayman Salem, 27, an unemployed laborer from the port of Shahat who is clothed in camouflage fatigues and perched next to an antiaircraft gun lashed to a truck bed. His comrades-in-arms are a 26-year-old auto mechanic and a 21-year-old day laborer, both from Benghazi. Their truck is among the scores of rebel vehicles parked at odd angles along the highway, waiting.

Read more: Libya's Ragtag Rebels: Why They Fight - TIME

 

[High_Gravity]

So much for leading from the rear.

NATO Agrees To Take Over Command Of Libya No-Fly Zone, U.S. Likely To Remain In Charge Of Brunt Of Combat

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The United States welcomed a partial handover for the Libyan air campaign to NATO on Thursday, but the allies apparently balked at assuming full control and the U.S. military was left in charge of the brunt of combat.


NATO agreed to take over command of the newly established no-fly zone over Libya, protective flights meant to deter Libyan strongman Moammar Gadhafi from putting warplanes in the air. That leaves the U.S. with responsibility for attacks on Gadhafi's ground forces and other targets, which are the toughest and most controversial portion of the operation.

The U.S had hoped the alliance would reach a consensus Thursday for NATO to take full control of the military operation authorized by the United Nations, including the protection of Libyan civilians and supporting humanitarian aid efforts on the ground. It was not immediately clear when the allies could reach agreement on the matter.

"We are taking the next step: We have agreed along with our NATO allies to transition command and control for the no-fly zone over Libya to NATO," Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said.

"All 28 allies have also now authorized military authorities to develop an operations plan for NATO to take on the broader civilian protection mission," Clinton said.

Lines of authority were unclear Thursday night, but it appeared the NATO decision sets up dual command centers and opens the door to confusion and finger-pointing. U.S. commanders would presumably be chiefly responsible for ensuring that the NATO protective flights do not conflict with planned combat operations under U.S. command.

The Pentagon indicated U.S. warplanes will keep flying strike missions over Libya.

Senior administration officials said the breakthrough came in a four-way telephone call with Clinton and the foreign ministers of Britain, France and Turkey. The four worked out the way forward, which included the immediate transfer of command and control of the no-fly zone over Libya, and by early next week of the rest of the U.N.-mandated mission.

The officials, speaking on condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive military planning, said the actual handover of the no-fly zone would occur in one or two days. They said NATO would have a final operational plan by over the weekend for how it would assume control over the rest of the protection mission, and that it would be executable by Tuesday's meeting in London of nations contributing to the military action.

NATO Agrees To Take Over Command Of Libya No-Fly Zone, U.S. Likely To Remain In Charge Of Brunt Of Combat

 

[JBeukema]

Libya's Ragtag Rebels: Why They Fight

Remember 'Comical Ali,' the Iraqi Information Minister who claimed that Saddam Hussein's troops were winning the war even as U.S. tanks rolled into Baghdad? Meet his Benghazi cousin, Khaled al-Sayeh. It's three days into Operation Odyssey Dawn, and the military spokesman for the Libyan rebels is brimming with bravado. Thanks in part to the allied aerial campaign, with sorties flown by seven nations, he tells journalists that rebel forces have regained control of two of the four main entrances to the strategic town of Ajdabiyah, which they lost to Muammar Gaddafi's troops the previous week. Now, he says, the rebels are bypassing the enemy and cutting off its supply route. Soon, he promises, the government troops will run out of ammunition. "We are surrounding Gaddafi's forces," he says.

Consulting no notes, al-Sayeh rattles off a string of statistics that suggest the war is going against the tyrant in Tripoli: Rebels and allied airpower have destroyed all but 11 of the 80 tanks that had been moving on Benghazi; 10 have been captured intact, along with 20 pickup trucks, two armored vehicles and another fitted with radar gear. Anywhere from 400 to 600 government troops have been killed.



It all sounds most reassuring, until you drive to the front line between the rebels and government forces. There, 6 miles (10 km) from Ajdabiyah, the mood among rebel fighters is more tentative than triumphant. They are poorly armed. They have AK-47s, a few heavy machine guns mounted on trucks and some rocket-propelled-grenade launchers. Buffeted by a desert wind that whips sand into their eyes, young men in cars and pickup trucks stage impromptu cavalry charges toward the enemy, only to fall back in panic when fired upon. For all al-Sayeh's boasting, Gaddafi's loyalists still have plenty of tanks and artillery.

"We went about three or four kilometers forward ... but then we came back because they were bombarding us," says Ayman Salem, 27, an unemployed laborer from the port of Shahat who is clothed in camouflage fatigues and perched next to an antiaircraft gun lashed to a truck bed. His comrades-in-arms are a 26-year-old auto mechanic and a 21-year-old day laborer, both from Benghazi. Their truck is among the scores of rebel vehicles parked at odd angles along the highway, waiting.

Read more: Libya's Ragtag Rebels: Why They Fight - TIME

He's trying to encourage the rebels. America lied to us throughout WWI so we'd be willing to keep up the fight

 

[JBeukema]

If he falls, it's important that rebel forces are the ones who take him in or set foot into his compound. This must be seen as a victory for and of the Libyan People, not the West.

 

[Uncensored2008]

So much for leading from the rear.

In fairness, I think Obama does lead from his rear... Every decision he makes seems to be pulled out of his ass.

 

[High_Gravity]

If he falls, it's important that rebel forces are the ones who take him in or set foot into his compound. This must be seen as a victory for and of the Libyan People, not the West.

Definently, has to be his own people who take him out.

 

[zzzz]

The military should have staged a coup and then promised reforms like in Egypt. I'm afraid now that there is going to be lot of bloodshed in Libya and this civil war will smolder on for a year or so. Unless another country will offer Qaddafi and his family asylum. Remember in Afghanistan, supporting the rebels was enough to topple the Taliban, yet in Iraq we had to commit boots on the ground. If we had supported (Technically we are not supporting them just protecting them) the rebel initially when they had momentum it would have been over. Now no one has momentum but it has devolved into a quasi static stalemate.

The question on everyones mind is "What are the international forces going to do?" Support a rebel offensive, just support a status quo and divide the country into two, or pull out?

 

[JBeukema]

The military should have staged a coup and then promised reforms like in Egypt.

My understanding is that the majority of the military is still loyal

Unless another country will offer Qaddafi and his family asylum.

I doubt he'd go. Just like Saddam, any 'offer' to go will be total bullshit designed to ensure he remains in control.

 

[High_Gravity]

The military should have staged a coup and then promised reforms like in Egypt. I'm afraid now that there is going to be lot of bloodshed in Libya and this civil war will smolder on for a year or so. Unless another country will offer Qaddafi and his family asylum. Remember in Afghanistan, supporting the rebels was enough to topple the Taliban, yet in Iraq we had to commit boots on the ground. If we had supported (Technically we are not supporting them just protecting them) the rebel initially when they had momentum it would have been over. Now no one has momentum but it has devolved into a quasi static stalemate.

The question on everyones mind is "What are the international forces going to do?" Support a rebel offensive, just support a status quo and divide the country into two, or pull out?

There are big differences between Egypt and Libya. In Egypt the Military for the most part would not slaughter innocent civilians in large numbers and Mubarak was not willing to massacre huge numbers of Egyptians to stay in power. Ghaddafi on the other hand, has shown he is willing to commit genocide on his people to remain in power, like Saddam did in Iraq. The Libyan Military is broken, Ghaddafi has his own personal forces, some of them not even from Libya that are there to be totally faithful to him, they are from other African countries and are fiercly loyal to Ghaddafi because he signs the checks, they have no problem killing Libyans because they are not from there. Ghaddafi and Mubarak are different and so are Egypt and Libya, what happened in Egypt could not and would not happen in Libya.

 

[zzzz]

The military should have staged a coup and then promised reforms like in Egypt. I'm afraid now that there is going to be lot of bloodshed in Libya and this civil war will smolder on for a year or so. Unless another country will offer Qaddafi and his family asylum. Remember in Afghanistan, supporting the rebels was enough to topple the Taliban, yet in Iraq we had to commit boots on the ground. If we had supported (Technically we are not supporting them just protecting them) the rebel initially when they had momentum it would have been over. Now no one has momentum but it has devolved into a quasi static stalemate.

The question on everyones mind is "What are the international forces going to do?" Support a rebel offensive, just support a status quo and divide the country into two, or pull out?

There are big differences between Egypt and Libya. In Egypt the Military for the most part would not slaughter innocent civilians in large numbers and Mubarak was not willing to massacre huge numbers of Egyptians to stay in power. Ghaddafi on the other hand, has shown he is willing to commit genocide on his people to remain in power, like Saddam did in Iraq. The Libyan Military is broken, Ghaddafi has his own personal forces, some of them not even from Libya that are there to be totally faithful to him, they are from other African countries and are fiercly loyal to Ghaddafi because he signs the checks, they have no problem killing Libyans because they are not from there. Ghaddafi and Mubarak are different and so are Egypt and Libya, what happened in Egypt could not and would not happen in Libya.

Yes there are differences but in all the countries in that region the military decides who remains in power. Even though the Libyan military has suffered air and missile attacks they still have a sizable footprint on the ground. Mercs are there but as soon as they see the tide turning they will be running for their lives because they know they will be executed on the spot by the rebels. It is all about momentum now anyway. The rebels had it initially and then Ghaddafi's forces recovered and took it back. The air-strikes and missile attacks blunted that momentum and now it is stalemated.

 

[High_Gravity]

The military should have staged a coup and then promised reforms like in Egypt. I'm afraid now that there is going to be lot of bloodshed in Libya and this civil war will smolder on for a year or so. Unless another country will offer Qaddafi and his family asylum. Remember in Afghanistan, supporting the rebels was enough to topple the Taliban, yet in Iraq we had to commit boots on the ground. If we had supported (Technically we are not supporting them just protecting them) the rebel initially when they had momentum it would have been over. Now no one has momentum but it has devolved into a quasi static stalemate.

The question on everyones mind is "What are the international forces going to do?" Support a rebel offensive, just support a status quo and divide the country into two, or pull out?

There are big differences between Egypt and Libya. In Egypt the Military for the most part would not slaughter innocent civilians in large numbers and Mubarak was not willing to massacre huge numbers of Egyptians to stay in power. Ghaddafi on the other hand, has shown he is willing to commit genocide on his people to remain in power, like Saddam did in Iraq. The Libyan Military is broken, Ghaddafi has his own personal forces, some of them not even from Libya that are there to be totally faithful to him, they are from other African countries and are fiercly loyal to Ghaddafi because he signs the checks, they have no problem killing Libyans because they are not from there. Ghaddafi and Mubarak are different and so are Egypt and Libya, what happened in Egypt could not and would not happen in Libya.

Yes there are differences but in all the countries in that region the military decides who remains in power. Even though the Libyan military has suffered air and missile attacks they still have a sizable footprint on the ground. Mercs are there but as soon as they see the tide turning they will be running for their lives because they know they will be executed on the spot by the rebels. It is all about momentum now anyway. The rebels had it initially and then Ghaddafi's forces recovered and took it back. The air-strikes and missile attacks blunted that momentum and now it is stalemated.

The thing is the Military that are fighting for Ghaddafi are extremely loyal to him, alot of them are foreigners as well. Everyone in the Military who is against Ghaddafi has already defected to the rebels for the most part, Ghaddafis Military is similar to Saddams system, he keeps alot of them loyal to him and they will do whatever he asks, kill, rape, bomb, whatever. The Military are not going to unseat Ghaddafi in Libya. The top echelon of the Egyptian Military were trained in the US, some of them were at West Point so we had connections with them, no such connections exist with the Libyan Military.

 

[JBeukema]

Yes there are differences but in all the countries in that region the military decides who remains in power.

I'd say that applies everywhere. Try staging a revolution here and see if the military have a say in the matter. Hell, just try to leave (see: confederate war for independence)