All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss

[Coyote]

Coyote

Let me ask you some questions. Let's say Israel does annex all of Area C and absorbs all of the Arab Palestinians in that area as citizens of Israel.

How are you going to address those who claim that Israel has unilaterally stolen land and ended the two-state solution?
How are you going to address things like freedom of movement for Palestinians in Areas A and B?
What would you recommend as being a practical and morally correct way of handling those who "resist" the annexation?

Good question and probably deserving it’s own thread.

Well, I think its incumbent on you to consider the fall out from your suggestions.

You could annex a portion of it, forceabley expel Jews and Arabs from various areas and create more contiguous territories with one being annexed and the other semi autonomous and then deal with the fall out of mass expulsions.

 

[Coyote]

Taqiyya Revisited: A Response to the Critics - Raymond Ibrahim

Interpreting Taqiyya - Jane's Islamic Affairs Analyst

Another link that doesn't prove Your point?
You're suspiciously vague about answering my questions.
I would actually like some answers.

About peace agreements as strategy of Islam's holy war (Jihad),
about Islam's obligations to an oath, and about Islam's use of deception to spread religion.

I am not vague at all. I gave you specific answers on when it is permissible to lie in religions. If you want more you need to be less vague yourself and state what it is you want specifically. I am not up to playing games.

The link I used discussed some of what you are asking.

 

[Coyote]

[

It seems to me that all those who fall under security concerns should be treated the same, wouldn’t you agree?

Not all pose the same security concerns. So, no.

So a Palestinian throwing stones is a greater security concern than a settler throwing stones?

 

[flacaltenn]

The military courts system

Together with the army and the Civil Administration, the military courts system is the third mechanism by which the State of Israel, as the occupying power, imposes its rule over the Palestinian population in the West Bank. The Oslo Accords established three “areas” in the West Bank. In Area C, Israel holds civilian and security control; in Area B, Israel holds security control while the Palestinian Authority holds civilian control; and in Area A, the Palestinian Authority holds civilian and security control. Despite this, however, the accords stated that the Israeli military courts are also empowered to try any person who committed an offense in Area A, if the offense injured or was intended to injure the security of the West Bank as a whole. This is consistent with the powers granted to the military courts in accordance with the Order regarding Security Provisions (Judea and Samaria) (No. 1651), 5770-2009) (hereinafter: “the Order regarding Security Provisions.”) In practice, therefore, the authority of the military courts extends over any Palestinian resident suspected of involvement in any offense that injures security.

And why do you have a problem with this? Did you read this carefully and understand it?

Despite this, however, the accords stated that the Israeli military courts are also empowered to try any person who committed an offense in Area A, if the offense injured or was intended to injure the security of the West Bank as a whole

In Area A -- the ONLY cases that can come under Israeli military jurisdiction is if the offense injures or intended to injure, the WHOLE of the West Bank. Things that come to mind would be illegal arms caches hidden in the basement of universities or a rocket factory. Or maybe the Hamas assassination of a Fatah member.

What conditions would "injure the West Bank as a whole"??

Tulkarm is in Area A. How does this injure the West Bank as a whole?
Palestinian teen girl jailed for stone-throwing released

You may have mis-read the story or simply the offense is not described well enough. She is FROM Ramallah. Does not say exactly WHERE the offense was committed. The "area" maps are so contorted that you can step into Area A from areaC or B in a couple steps.. From the sketchy Ma';An report this is all we have..

Relatives of Malak al-Khatib said they were informed by the International Committee of the Red Cross that she will be released at the Jubara checkpoint near Tulkarem.

Al-Khatib, from the town of Beitin near Ramallah, was arrested last December and sentenced to two months in jail on the charge of stone-throwing and possession of a knife./QUOTE]

This is an example of how the UNDERLYING problems need to be addressed and not the confounding patchwork of 50 years of occupation..

Tulkarm is NOT where the "crime" occurred. We don't actually KNOW in which area the incident occurred. Schoolkids could have gone 50 yards down the road to protest or harass the Israeli security details and been officially OUT of Area A..

I'm truly not interested in "making life marginally better" under a long and difficult occupation. I'm much interested in the dynamics of getting true autonomy for the majority of Palestinians in some fashion.

 

[Shusha]

[

It seems to me that all those who fall under security concerns should be treated the same, wouldn’t you agree?

Not all pose the same security concerns. So, no.

So a Palestinian throwing stones is a greater security concern than a settler throwing stones?

In Area C? Yes.

 

[Coyote]

[

It seems to me that all those who fall under security concerns should be treated the same, wouldn’t you agree?

Not all pose the same security concerns. So, no.

So a Palestinian throwing stones is a greater security concern than a settler throwing stones?

In Area C? Yes.

Why?

 

[Sixties Fan]

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/mid...nnel-exposed-near-lebanese-border/2018/12/16/

 

[RoccoR]

RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ Sixties Fan, et al,

These Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP), both on the south side of Israel (HAMAS) and on the north side of Israel (Hezbollah) are turning into mole-people; with all this digging and tunneling.

Fourth Hezbollah Terror Tunnel Exposed Near Lebanese Border

(COMMENT)

This could lead to an entirely new product line: A seismic terrorist detector and early warning system.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Sixties Fan]

http://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/opinions/its-islamic-terrorism-stupid/2018/12/16/

 

[Sixties Fan]

[ Muslims mistake being peaceful with being cowardly. And let us not forget that for 1300 years Jews were not able to react or defend themselves against any Muslim aggression. Cartoons like this, allow any Arab to think that they can kill a Jew without any punishment ]

From the Hamas news site Palestine Today, in an article celebrating attacks on Jews in the West Bank:



Hamas cartoon shows a Jew afraid of his own shadow ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News

 

[rylah]

[

It seems to me that all those who fall under security concerns should be treated the same, wouldn’t you agree?

Not all pose the same security concerns. So, no.

So a Palestinian throwing stones is a greater security concern than a settler throwing stones?

In Area C? Yes.

Why?

Because of the volume of such incidents.
Arabs stone throwing is a much wider phenomena.
Because Arabs actually killed several of their own while throwing stones at Judeans.
In reality You'll find daily reports of 6-10 incidents of Arab stone throwing on the roads,
and it would be Your lucky month if You find 6 different reports of Judeans throwing stones in a whole month.

Don't confuse media coverage with actual reality, Arab stone throwing on civilians is a daily reality, Judeans throwing stones is been on decline , it was never at the same volume in the first place.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Anatomy of Palestinian riots and how Israel works to prevent violence

 

[rylah]

Taqiyya Revisited: A Response to the Critics - Raymond Ibrahim

Interpreting Taqiyya - Jane's Islamic Affairs Analyst

Another link that doesn't prove Your point?
You're suspiciously vague about answering my questions.
I would actually like some answers.

About peace agreements as strategy of Islam's holy war (Jihad),
about Islam's obligations to an oath, and about Islam's use of deception to spread religion.

I am not vague at all. I gave you specific answers on when it is permissible to lie in religions. If you want more you need to be less vague yourself and state what it is you want specifically. I am not up to playing games.

The link I used discussed some of what you are asking.

You were asked specifically about Islam.
Why? Because both of the Palestinian governments established Sharia as main source of legislation.
What does it mean? That Israelis are expected to negotiate with governments who execute gays in public under "civil law", that negotiations and agreements in such a framework are defined as only temporal until Jihad can proceed executing the obligation of forcing Sharia upon both Arabs and Jews.

The problem is the obligation to Jihad, in the strictest legal terms while Jewish law has specific boundaries where it can apply, Islamic law has no boundaries and open agenda of spreading forth.

The question regarding the obligation to oaths in Islamic law, and the obligation of a state to religious definitions of land raise many question regarding the ability of any Palestinian to negotiate any land deals.
In fact there's a question whether any state that is heavily reliant of Islamic law can have a legal framework for an actual agreement on static borders.

The question is can any of the Palestinian governments negotiate in such a framework, or should it be a broader inter-faith legal negotiation regarding Jewish recognition in Islamic world? Maybe the Palestinian governments don't have that kind of authority to start with?

 

[Shusha]

[

It seems to me that all those who fall under security concerns should be treated the same, wouldn’t you agree?

Not all pose the same security concerns. So, no.

So a Palestinian throwing stones is a greater security concern than a settler throwing stones?

In Area C? Yes.

Why?

Because Arabs throwing stones have an agenda of removing the government and toppling the State. They have an agenda of demonizing Israel. Many of them have an agenda of ridding the territory of apes and pigs and tearing the hearts out of Jews.

Because it's not just stones. It's guns and bombs and knives.

Because it's Sharia law. And usurpation of Jewish history. And replacement theology.

Because it's a resistance to modernity and to development.

 

[Coyote]

Taqiyya Revisited: A Response to the Critics - Raymond Ibrahim

Interpreting Taqiyya - Jane's Islamic Affairs Analyst

Another link that doesn't prove Your point?
You're suspiciously vague about answering my questions.
I would actually like some answers.

About peace agreements as strategy of Islam's holy war (Jihad),
about Islam's obligations to an oath, and about Islam's use of deception to spread religion.

I am not vague at all. I gave you specific answers on when it is permissible to lie in religions. If you want more you need to be less vague yourself and state what it is you want specifically. I am not up to playing games.

The link I used discussed some of what you are asking.

You were asked specifically about Islam.
Why? Because both of the Palestinian governments established Sharia as main source of legislation.
What does it mean? That Israelis are expected to negotiate with governments who execute gays in public under "civil law", that negotiations and agreements in such a framework are defined as only temporal until Jihad can proceed executing the obligation of forcing Sharia upon both Arabs and Jews.

The problem is the obligation to Jihad, in the strictest legal terms while Jewish law has specific boundaries where it can apply, Islamic law has no boundaries and open agenda of spreading forth.

The question regarding the obligation to oaths in Islamic law, and the obligation of a state to religious definitions of land raise many question regarding the ability of any Palestinian to negotiate any land deals.
In fact there's a question whether any state that is heavily reliant of Islamic law can have a legal framework for an actual agreement on static borders.

The question is can any of the Palestinian governments negotiate in such a framework, or should it be a broader inter-faith legal negotiation regarding Jewish recognition in Islamic world? Maybe the Palestinian governments don't have that kind of authority to start with?

I answered specifically about Islam and Islam is very specific and codified as to how Jihad can be applied, how warfare can be conducted and not conducted, etc.

I would disagree with your claim of forcing Sharia on others. Some of that seems driven by antiIslamic fear mongering around the world.

Muslim Beliefs About Sharia

The question you ask though is a very interesting one and maybe you are right. I do think, without any clear leadership on the Palestinian side it will be up to Israel and the Arab States together to come up with something. Forget the US and Europe.

 

[Sixties Fan]

GroundBrief: Associated Press article misses the mark, Al-Qaeda in Syria and more

 

[Coyote]

[

It seems to me that all those who fall under security concerns should be treated the same, wouldn’t you agree?

Not all pose the same security concerns. So, no.

So a Palestinian throwing stones is a greater security concern than a settler throwing stones?

In Area C? Yes.

Why?

Because Arabs throwing stones have an agenda of removing the government and toppling the State. They have an agenda of demonizing Israel. Many of them have an agenda of ridding the territory of apes and pigs and tearing the hearts out of Jews.

Because it's not just stones. It's guns and bombs and knives.

Because it's Sharia law. And usurpation of Jewish history. And replacement theology.

Because it's a resistance to modernity and to development.

Because it’s Sharia Law? Boy you managed to pack a whole lot into that post. Maybe they are throwing stones for the same reasons Jewish settlers throw stones. The each hate the other. I doubt they put much thought of Sharia, replacement theology or much of the rest of that as they are throwing stones.

It is the usual double standard...same crime, completely different treatment.

 

[Shusha]

Maybe they are throwing stones for the same reasons Jewish settlers throw stones.

No they are not. Entirely my point.

 

[Shusha]

I doubt they put much thought of Sharia, replacement theology or much of the rest of that as they are throwing stones.

On the contrary, I believe that is exactly why they are throwing stones (and let's not forget the bullets, bombs and knives). That is their mother's milk. None of their arguments make sense without that foundation.

 

[Sixties Fan]

http://www.israelhayom.com/opinions/this-is-hatred/