All the fire in hell is too little punishment for what we do...

[José]

As I demonstrated above, since our species appeared on this planet there has been an uneasy coexistence, a tense relationship between the slaughter of animals and our capacity to feel empathy for all living creatures.

I hope, and this is not a prediction, only a hope, I hope that someday in the future our sense of compassion will eventually triumph over our predatory tradition.

I hope that someday the slaughter of animals will become only a sad, distant memory of the brutal way our ancestors used to live.

 

[JW Frogen]

Jose' if you were a sexy woman I could agree with all that.

But you are not.

So I do not.

Any sexy women want to agree with Jose'?

 

[eots]

Originally posted by eots
some hypocrite... that sheds tears over Bambi meeting his destiny

It may come as a shock to you, eots, but our prehistoric ancestors you admire so much also "shed tears over Bambi meeting his destiny".

Eots mentioned the fact that hunting was part of our ancestors' life for thousands of years. But what eots probably doesn't know is that Mr. Caveman also had a troubled conscience just like so many of us today. Anthropologists all over the world have already catalogued thousands of fables created by Stone Age peoples to deal with the moral repercussions of hunting.

Bushmen in the Kalahari Desert say a prayer in front of the slain antelope asking the animal to forgive them and then introduce their saliva into the wound in order to "free its soul".

Natives from Vanuatu believe that the main goal in the life of an animal is to feed humans. They believe animals crave to become their next meal and they are in fact doing them a favor by hunting them. (I wonder how they rationalise the fact that they all desperately run for their lives at the sight of them).

African tribes, indians in the Americas, aborigines in Australia and Papua... you name it...

There are literally tens of thousands of myths, legends and rituals created by prehistoric peoples to relieve the burden of conscience that results from hunting. They are primitive attempts to rationalise the pain and premature death they impose on those creatures.

So what eots said, rather than invalidating my point, reinforces it:

While wolves and mountain lions only show empathy for their offspring, you cannot be a rational being without displaying some degree of empathy for other living creatures.

The moment we became humans, thousands of years ago in the African savannah, was the moment we started feeling compassion towards others. Empathy for other living creatures is a natural outgrowth of our ability to create abstract moral concepts such as good and evil, just and unjust etc...It's a natural outgrowth of our ability to understand rationally that life and pleasure is good while death, pain and suffering is bad for other sentient beings like us.

You cannot suppress our tendency to feel empathy any more than you can suppress our ability to walk upright because it's part of the whole rationality package we developed thousands of years ago.

Take away our ability to reason... Turn us into mountain lions, into wolves and we'll immediatelly stop feeling empathy for other creatures. That's the only way to do it.

Now, I have no problem admitting that human beings show varying degrees of empathy towards strangers and other forms of life:

You have people, like KittenKoder, who have a lot of compassion for the suffering of animals.

You have people, like eots, who have less empathy for the suffering they endure and their lives being abbreviated.

You also have people who are totally unable to feel any empathy for dying animals, strangers or even their own family members. Psychiatry calls these individuals psychopaths.

Some people have more, some people have less but only mentally ill individuals have no empathy at all for the suffering of others.

Please, notice that I'm not disagreeing with anything you said about predation and the suffering of prey animals as being part of Nature's plan for life on Earth, Sitarro. I'm simply stating:

We are not mountain lions, we are human beings and due to our rationality we cannot avoid feeling empathy everytime we see a living being enduring any kind of suffering. It's something that is hardwired into what we are.

yes a quick clean kill is important...

 

[JW Frogen]

yes a quick clean kill is important...

You either in a bad marriage or work for Tyson foods.

 

[KittenKoder]

Jose' if you were a sexy woman I could agree with all that.

But you are not.

So I do not.

Any sexy women want to agree with Jose'?

Not me, I'm an omnivore like I was created ... if it's digestible, I'll eat it ... love my meats to.

 

[Ringel05]

Originally posted by eots
some hypocrite... that sheds tears over Bambi meeting his destiny

It may come as a shock to you, eots, but our prehistoric ancestors you admire so much also "shed tears over Bambi meeting his destiny".

Eots mentioned the fact that hunting was part of our ancestors' life for thousands of years. But what eots probably doesn't know is that Mr. Caveman also had a troubled conscience just like so many of us today. Anthropologists all over the world have already catalogued thousands of fables created by Stone Age peoples to deal with the moral repercussions of hunting.

Bushmen in the Kalahari Desert say a prayer in front of the slain antelope asking the animal to forgive them and then introduce their saliva into the wound in order to "free its soul".

Natives from Vanuatu believe that the main goal in the life of an animal is to feed humans. They believe animals crave to become their next meal and they are in fact doing them a favor by hunting them. (I wonder how they rationalise the fact that they all desperately run for their lives at the sight of them).

African tribes, indians in the Americas, aborigines in Australia and Papua... you name it...

There are literally tens of thousands of myths, legends and rituals created by prehistoric peoples to relieve the burden of conscience that results from hunting. They are primitive attempts to rationalise the pain and premature death they impose on those creatures.

So what eots said, rather than invalidating my point, reinforces it:

While wolves and mountain lions only show empathy for their offspring, you cannot be a rational being without displaying some degree of empathy for other living creatures.

The moment we became humans, thousands of years ago in the African savannah, was the moment we started feeling compassion towards others. Empathy for other living creatures is a natural outgrowth of our ability to create abstract moral concepts such as good and evil, just and unjust etc...It's a natural outgrowth of our ability to understand rationally that life and pleasure is good while death, pain and suffering is bad for other sentient beings like us.

You cannot suppress our tendency to feel empathy any more than you can suppress our ability to walk upright because it's part of the whole rationality package we developed thousands of years ago.

Take away our ability to reason... Turn us into mountain lions, into wolves and we'll immediatelly stop feeling empathy for other creatures. That's the only way to do it.

Now, I have no problem admitting that human beings show varying degrees of empathy towards strangers and other forms of life:

You have people, like KittenKoder, who have a lot of compassion for the suffering of animals.

You have people, like eots, who have less empathy for the suffering they endure and their lives being abbreviated.

You also have people who are totally unable to feel any empathy for dying animals, strangers or even their own family members. Psychiatry calls these individuals psychopaths.

Some people have more, some people have less but only mentally ill individuals have no empathy at all for the suffering of others.

Please, notice that I'm not disagreeing with anything you said about predation and the suffering of prey animals as being part of Nature's plan for life on Earth, Sitarro. I'm simply stating:

We are not mountain lions, we are human beings and due to our rationality we cannot avoid feeling empathy everytime we see a living being enduring any kind of suffering. It's something that is hardwired into what we are.

Finally you make a rational, well thought out argument as opposed to a simple emotive flame based on a scripted movie scene.

 

[José]

Originally posted by José
You have people, like KittenKoder, who have a lot of compassion for the suffering of animals.

Originally posted by KittenKoder
Not me, I'm an omnivore like I was created ... if it's digestible, I'll eat it ... love my meats to.

That was a big disappointment, kitten : (

Your nick and av led me to believe you cared for all animals. Aren't you a follower of an ancient Egyptian cult that worships felines or something?

Anyway, my sister is a fanatic cat lover (just like you?). I showed her your av. but not that cybernetic, robotic cat you use now. I showed her that little kitten typing frantically on his computer. She loved him so much she even asked me to look for a bigger gif on the Net.

He was really cute. You shouldn't have discarded him : (

 

[José]

Originally posted by Ringel05
Finally you make a rational, well thought out argument as opposed to a simple emotive flame based on a scripted movie scene.

Thanks, Ringel... I think...

You see... I just have to watch a wildlife documentary to conclude that Sitarro is right on the money when he says Nature has no problem at all with brutality, suffering, pain...

Nature (or God if you prefer to call it so) has no problem with a pack of african wild dogs eating a wildebeest alive, no problem with a lion killing all the cubs of the former leader of the pride, no problem with young hyenas killing their siblings to eliminate future rivals etc, etc, etc...

The whole problem lies in our ability to reason and show empathic concern for others.

We are the only species on Earth that has the ability to pass moral judgements on Nature.

Rationality/Moral reasoning gave us the unique ability to repudiate and disregard Nature whenever it clashes with our moral bearings and commiseration for the suffering of another creature.

 

[Douger]

It's interesting to see how them thar 'publicaNtz act when confronted with truth.
Big bad hillbilly dun got skeereded.
By Boy George !

 

[Ringel05]

It's interesting to see how them thar 'publicaNtz act when confronted with truth.
Big bad hillbilly dun got skeereded.
By Boy George !

 

[Si modo]

Jose' if you were a sexy woman I could agree with all that.

But you are not.

So I do not.

Any sexy women want to agree with Jose'?

Can I agree with you?

 

[DiveCon]

It's interesting to see how them thar 'publicaNtz act when confronted with truth.
Big bad hillbilly dun got skeereded.
By Boy George !

another delusion leftist

but you got all there was to get from that post

 

[Ringel05]

It's interesting to see how them thar 'publicaNtz act when confronted with truth.
Big bad hillbilly dun got skeereded.
By Boy George !

another delusion leftist

but you got all there was to get from that post

I haven't a clue as to what he meant. Maybe it's some cryptic message for Juan, only The Shadow knows. Which leads me again to:

 

[Si modo]

Originally posted by Ringel05
Finally you make a rational, well thought out argument as opposed to a simple emotive flame based on a scripted movie scene.

Thanks, Ringel... I think...

You see... I just have to watch a wildlife documentary to conclude that Sitarro is right on the money when he says Nature has no problem at all with brutality, suffering, pain...

Nature (or God if you prefer to call it so) has no problem with a pack of african wild dogs eating a wildebeest alive, no problem with a lion killing all the cubs of the former leader of the pride, no problem with young hyenas killing their siblings to eliminate future rivals etc, etc, etc...

The whole problem lies in our ability to reason and show empathic concern for others.

We are the only species on Earth that has the ability to pass moral judgements on Nature.

Rationality/Moral reasoning gave us the unique ability to repudiate and disregard Nature whenever it clashes with our moral bearings and commiseration for the suffering of another creature.

I think the Moon aligned with Mars and a wormhole opened up, sucking me into an alternate universe. That's a good post.

 

[José]

Originally posted by Ringel

Originally posted by Divecon
another delusion leftist

but you got all there was to get from that post

LOL, Ringel, Divecon...

As Sunni would say:

Does anyone have a "babble to english" translation book?

So we can understand what Douger is trying to say?




Sorry, Douger, just kidding. But if you do intend to get your message across try to be less cryptic next time.

 

[José]

Originally posted by Simodo
I think the Moon aligned with Mars and a wormhole opened up, sucking me into an alternate universe. That's a good post.

I see.

It takes a parallel universe predicted by the many-worlds interpretation of quantum physics for me to post something good.

How nice ; )

 

[José]

Originally posted by Skull Pilot
the best part in that Powder movie was when he blew up.

Originally posted by Skull Pilot
skip to the end the whole rest of the movie was emo pap so thick as to gag you.

tsk, tsk, tsk...

Skull Pilot definitely has the sensibility of a rhino. Far from being "emo pap" Powder is easily one of the most extraordinary movies of the last century.

By establishing an "extra-sensorial bridge" between the hunter and the dying deer, Powder was able to awaken the latent empathy that is hardwired into all mentally sane human beings.

All the rationalizations he had created to shield himself from remorse ("The animal doesn't feel a thing!! BLAH, BLAH, BLAH") were utterly destroyed in that moment of interaction with the animal's agony. During those few moments his subjective isolation was broken and he could share all the suffering he had imposed on the animal.

There's no other way to put it:

Absolutely wonderful.

 

[José]

And Powder's "explosion" at the end is not meaningless by any stretch of the imagination.

He got so disillusioned with all the primitivism and brutality of human society that he decided to withdraw from it and become one with the universe in accordance with Einstein's idea that matter and energy are one and the same thing, matter being nothing but frozen energy.

What can we say about a movie like this, people?

The English language lacks enough complimentary adjectives do describe Powder.

 

[José]

I searched the net for the part when the hunter talks about his experience but all I could find was a bigger part of the movie.

But you just have to watch the first 1 min 42.

[youtube]ADJCgn-Dpw0[/youtube]​

 

[José]

On a hunting trip with his schoolmates, Powder is threatened with a gun by John Box, an aggressive student who views him as a freak. Before John can shoot, a gun goes off in the distance and everyone rushes to see that Harley, a sheriff's deputy who is hunting with the boys, has shot a doe which is now dying. Anguished by the animal's death, Powder touches the deer and Harley, inducing in Harley what the students assume is a seizure. Harley later reveals that Powder had caused him to feel the pain and fear of the dying deer, and he cannot bring himself to wield a gun anymore because of this, although he hates Powder for doing this to him.

Powder (film) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia