Alan Derschowitz: Zimmerman Charge Wont Stand

[JimBowie1958]

It interrupts the pity for the Defendant to discuss his weapon of choice. "HIS LIFE IS RUINED!" Unlike the victim, he still HAS one however.

So that justifies slander against an innocent person who only defended themselves?

Lordy.

 

[Missourian]

Is it illegal to follow someone? NO

Is it illegal to approach someone? NO

Is it illegal to question someone? NO

Is it illegal to assault someone with fists? YES

Is it illegal to defend yourself from assault? NO

The only crime committed here was committed by Martin.

Case closed.

I doubt that would be your response if your kid was the one who was followed home and shot just yards away from arriving home safely.

Or, maybe I'm wrong and you're principled and you would accept the notion that your kid, almost arriving safely home, somehow got it in them to go back and start a fist-fight with the stranger that was freaking them out?

Until we know what the evidence is from Martin's hands and finger nails (the funeral director said his hands were in "pristine condition", meaning they couldn't have done what some folks have made up) the case is most definitely not closed.

No need to wait...there was a witness.

But one man's testimony could be key for the police.


"The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: 'help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.


Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; Zimmerman was in red.


Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman
​

 

[JimBowie1958]

Is it illegal to follow someone? NO

Is it illegal to approach someone? NO

Is it illegal to question someone? NO

Is it illegal to assault someone with fists? YES

Is it illegal to defend yourself from assault? NO

The only crime committed here was committed by Martin.

Case closed.

I doubt that would be your response if your kid was the one who was followed home and shot just yards away from arriving home safely.

Or, maybe I'm wrong and you're principled and you would accept the notion that your kid, almost arriving safely home, somehow got it in them to go back and start a fist-fight with the stranger that was freaking them out? .

Ummm, do yo know what the game 'Knockout King" is?

Unprovoked attacks at heart of 'Knockout King' - Boston.com

The rules of the game are as simple as they are brutal. A group -- usually young men or even boys as young as 12, and teenage girls in some cases -- chooses a lead attacker, then seeks out a victim. Unlike typical gang violence or other street crime, the goal is not revenge, nor is it robbery. The victim is chosen at random, often a person unlikely to put up a fight. Many of the victims have been elderly. Most were alone.

The attacker charges at the victim and begins punching. If the victim goes down, the group usually scatters. If not, others join in, punching and kicking the person, often until he or she is unconscious or at least badly hurt. Sometimes the attacks are captured on cellphone video that is posted on websites.

I am not saying Martin did this, but I am saying that it is not unreasonable to believe that deadly force might be warranted when one is being attacked by a 'kid' who is over six feet tall and weighed as much as 200 pounds.

If Martin was being freaked out, going back and assaulting the guy instead of running home would not be the probably response. Martin was not afraid of Zimmerman at all, obviously, more like annoyed with this short fat dude who had been following him.

 

[JimBowie1958]

No, not arresting a person because you take their word for it in the moments after they killed someone is outrageous.

The cops didnt just take his word for it. There were two witnesses and the injuries to Zimmermans head and face and the grass and dampness to the back of his shirt that coroborated his story as well. Apparently you need to read up on the case a little more.

Now, putting someone away for defending themselves would be outrageous, so we'll see what comes of this case, but arresting someone after they've killed someone and they told you they did it is appropriate to me and it's the way things would have gotten done before SYG was passed.

This arrest is not normal procedure, but is a response to the lynch mob calling for Zimmermans arest dead or alive. This is a play to try and avoid riots across the nation.

Justice needs to be blind, but on the night that that one man killed another, justice gave him a break and took him at his word without consulting all the evidence from a thorough investigation first.

That is where you are being presumptive. They took Zimmerman into custody and did investigate and they cleared him. This latest arrest is simply to appease the lunch mob.

George Zimmerman was not arrested for defending himself. He was arrested for the second degree murder of Trayvon Martin, which the prosecution must now prove.

Of course they arrested him for second degree murder, and not for defending himself. It isnt against the law to defend yourself...yet.

But the facts as known support Zimmerman to the point that it seems apparent to me that he is being railroaded and very likely innocent. The likelihood of his guilt is not probable and the arrest nothing more than playing politics with a mans life.

I don't care who you are, the moment you take a life, the burden is on you to defend yourself on why you did that and for a jury and a thorough investigation to decide whether that story holds up. And if it does, then you walk free, and if it doesn't, you deserve to go to jail.

And Zimmerman did and he walked free untill the race baitors decided to use the case to drum up support for Obama, and the gun grabbing nazis decided to use the case to attack stand your ground laws. They both chose poorly as it turns out.

I just don't see this as a political issue, even though some folks make it that way. You can't just shoot somebody dead, tell one story, and then immediately go free because you invoked "self defense". That's not good enough. You must be arrested so that a good investigation can go forward, and if they find that you're right, they drop the charges and no big deal.

He was taken into custody and then released after an investigation.

You should know that if you're going to bloviate.

But the idea that he just walked free that night without them checking his background as well as a whole other host of gaps in the early investigation doesn't give me much confidence in the justice system, because it's supposed to be blind except on that night it wasn't. It definitely took sides.

Except that it didnt happent hat way, dude.

 

[Interpol]

Is it illegal to follow someone? NO

Is it illegal to approach someone? NO

Is it illegal to question someone? NO

Is it illegal to assault someone with fists? YES

Is it illegal to defend yourself from assault? NO

The only crime committed here was committed by Martin.

Case closed.

I doubt that would be your response if your kid was the one who was followed home and shot just yards away from arriving home safely.

Or, maybe I'm wrong and you're principled and you would accept the notion that your kid, almost arriving safely home, somehow got it in them to go back and start a fist-fight with the stranger that was freaking them out?

Until we know what the evidence is from Martin's hands and finger nails (the funeral director said his hands were in "pristine condition", meaning they couldn't have done what some folks have made up) the case is most definitely not closed.

No need to wait...there was a witness.

But one man's testimony could be key for the police.


"The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: 'help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.


Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; Zimmerman was in red.


​

Yes, we need to wait, because we should have the whole story in front of us, and not just one fragment of it.​

 

[Interpol]

No, not arresting a person because you take their word for it in the moments after they killed someone is outrageous.

The cops didnt just take his word for it. There were two witnesses and the injuries to Zimmermans head and face and the grass and dampness to the back of his shirt that coroborated his story as well. Apparently you need to read up on the case a little more.

Now, putting someone away for defending themselves would be outrageous, so we'll see what comes of this case, but arresting someone after they've killed someone and they told you they did it is appropriate to me and it's the way things would have gotten done before SYG was passed.

This arrest is not normal procedure, but is a response to the lynch mob calling for Zimmermans arest dead or alive. This is a play to try and avoid riots across the nation.



That is where you are being presumptive. They took Zimmerman into custody and did investigate and they cleared him. This latest arrest is simply to appease the lunch mob.



Of course they arrested him for second degree murder, and not for defending himself. It isnt against the law to defend yourself...yet.

But the facts as known support Zimmerman to the point that it seems apparent to me that he is being railroaded and very likely innocent. The likelihood of his guilt is not probable and the arrest nothing more than playing politics with a mans life.



And Zimmerman did and he walked free untill the race baitors decided to use the case to drum up support for Obama, and the gun grabbing nazis decided to use the case to attack stand your ground laws. They both chose poorly as it turns out.

I just don't see this as a political issue, even though some folks make it that way. You can't just shoot somebody dead, tell one story, and then immediately go free because you invoked "self defense". That's not good enough. You must be arrested so that a good investigation can go forward, and if they find that you're right, they drop the charges and no big deal.

He was taken into custody and then released after an investigation.

You should know that if you're going to bloviate.

But the idea that he just walked free that night without them checking his background as well as a whole other host of gaps in the early investigation doesn't give me much confidence in the justice system, because it's supposed to be blind except on that night it wasn't. It definitely took sides.

Except that it didnt happent hat way, dude.

The problem is that you're taking the SPD's job at face value, while I'm looking at the gaps in their investigation.

It was a narcotics guy who doesn't know anything about anything when it comes to questioning people who wrote the first report (which makes no mention of a broken nose).

It was the lead investigator shortly afterwards who recommended that Zimmerman be arrested that night, and he signed an affidavit that night saying he disagreed with the notion of just letting the guy go.

If we're talking about a black kid standing there with a gun over a dead body as the police arrive, it doesn't strike me that the police would simply take his story at face value.

Besides, people can lie in their stories and eyewitnesses do have a tendency to misread what it is they're actually seeing, which is why you need qualified folks to be doing the investigation, and not a couple of narcs who got their first and then misapplied their understanding of what SYG is.

 

[JimBowie1958]

The problem is that you're taking the SPD's job at face value, while I'm looking at the gaps in their investigation.

It was a narcotics guy who doesn't know anything about anything when it comes to questioning people who wrote the first report (which makes no mention of a broken nose).

It was the lead investigator shortly afterwards who recommended that Zimmerman be arrested that night, and he signed an affidavit that night saying he disagreed with the notion of just letting the guy go.

Why did he disagree? He thought Zimmerman had not been assaulted? He dicounted the eye witnesses?

If we're talking about a black kid standing there with a gun over a dead body as the police arrive, it doesn't strike me that the police would simply take his story at face value.

So now you are saying the police were being racist? Really? Based on what?

Besides, people can lie in their stories and eyewitnesses do have a tendency to misread what it is they're actually seeing, which is why you need qualified folks to be doing the investigation, and not a couple of narcs who got their first and then misapplied their understanding of what SYG is.

But these were the only eye witnesses to the crime and the physical injuries also support Zimmermans story.

This whole thing is political bullshyte.

 

[LockeJaw]

Sorry, man, not a leftist, just a pragmatist.

1) We know exactly why Trayvon was in that neighborhood. He was visiting his father, who lived there with his girlfriend. He went out for an energy drink and some candy, when Zimmerman started following him for WWB (Walking While Black). We ONLY have Zimmerman's word that Trayvon attacked him, but if that was true, it was because this guy was following him. Zimmerman isn't a cop, he had no legal authority to chase Trayvon. The police dispatcher told him not to follow him.

2) Please, compared to Clinton, Obama and Holder aren't even trying for more gun control and wouldn't be caught having a drink with Sarah Brady. Even after the Giffords shooting, (which shows just how lax our laws are) they didn't push for tougher laws.

3) Your last statement is ridiculous. If Zimmerman hadn't been walking around packing heat and thinking he could get away with it, there would have been no shooting.

Incidently, I'm not pro- or anti- gun control. As a practical matter, when you already have 100 million guns out there, the horse is not only already out of the barn, but the barn's burned down.

But as you watch big corporations slowly take your middle class lifestyle apart, you can cling to your gun and still think you have some control over your life.

Oh you're one of those"corporations are acting all corporationy" types.

Corporations have nothing to do with whether I maintain my economic status or not. You're a leftist, you're not fooling anyone Mr. Joe Butler. You spout the same nonsense every other leftist spouts.

Actually, on that one you're dead wrong.

If what you're saying there were true, the phrase "too big to fail" wouldn't exist.

I meant that as far as my quality of life is concerned, it has always been ultimately dependent upon the choices I've made and the actions I've taken that decided how I would fare in life. Corporations have never been a factor in any of those choices and actions that got me to where I am today, which is financially stable and living a generally good life and being content and happy. I started off my life in poverty, that also never stopped me from striving to succeed. I was also born black and that, as far as I'm concerned, never was or is going to be a deciding factor of where I will end up in life.

I'm not for corporate welfare, bail-outs, or anything like that by the way. There is no such thing as too big to fail in my opinion.

 

[LockeJaw]

The problem is that you're taking the SPD's job at face value, while I'm looking at the gaps in their investigation.

It was a narcotics guy who doesn't know anything about anything when it comes to questioning people who wrote the first report (which makes no mention of a broken nose).

It was the lead investigator shortly afterwards who recommended that Zimmerman be arrested that night, and he signed an affidavit that night saying he disagreed with the notion of just letting the guy go.

Why did he disagree? He thought Zimmerman had not been assaulted? He dicounted the eye witnesses?

If we're talking about a black kid standing there with a gun over a dead body as the police arrive, it doesn't strike me that the police would simply take his story at face value.

So now you are saying the police were being racist? Really? Based on what?

Besides, people can lie in their stories and eyewitnesses do have a tendency to misread what it is they're actually seeing, which is why you need qualified folks to be doing the investigation, and not a couple of narcs who got their first and then misapplied their understanding of what SYG is.

But these were the only eye witnesses to the crime and the physical injuries also support Zimmermans story.

This whole thing is political bullshyte.

It most certainly seems that'd be correct, if the information we have at the moment is all she wrote and there isn't any new damning evidence against Zimmerman. We'll just have to wait and see.

 

[JakeStarkey]

It interrupts the pity for the Defendant to discuss his weapon of choice. "HIS LIFE IS RUINED!" Unlike the victim, he still HAS one however.

So that justifies slander against an innocent person who only defended themselves?

Lordy.

Slander? He is presumed innocent, suspected guilty of serious infractions of the law.

Slander? TM has been horribly slandered and libeled.

 

[Missourian]

At risk of being called a conspiracy theorist, I'd say it's entirely possible that's the point. Shaming gun owners. The administration has shown how far they're willing to go with fast & furious. Would it surprise you?

ok man Im gonna call you the conspiracy theory on that one ( but in a good natured way, not a finger pointing dickhead way )

One would expect the argument to be about the GUN instead of the two people involved in this case if it were an attack on guns.

Im just not seeing it.

It interrupts the pity for the Defendant to discuss his weapon of choice. "HIS LIFE IS RUINED!" Unlike the victim, he still HAS one however.

I agree...better to be arrested than beaten to death.

 

[JimBowie1958]

It interrupts the pity for the Defendant to discuss his weapon of choice. "HIS LIFE IS RUINED!" Unlike the victim, he still HAS one however.

So that justifies slander against an innocent person who only defended themselves?

Lordy.

Slander? He is presumed innocent, suspected guilty of serious infractions of the law.

Yes, slander. When a prosecutor presses charges on a person who has obviously NOT committed a crime, that is a slander on their reputation.

I pray to God that Zimmerman sues the people responsible for ruining his reputation.

Slander? TM has been horribly slandered and libeled.

TM had the ability to walk away and not assault Zimmerman.

 

[JakeStarkey]

GZ was armed interfering in another man's life who had no reason to be bothered with by another civilian.

GZ was armed.

The onus is on GZ. That will not change.

 

[JimBowie1958]

I meant that as far as my quality of life is concerned, it has always been ultimately dependent upon the choices I've made and the actions I've taken that decided how I would fare in life.

Amen.

Corporations have never been a factor in any of those choices and actions that got me to where I am today, which is financially stable and living a generally good life and being content and happy.

Maybe, but that is changing. Wall Street managed to use its influence and get Romney the nomination of the GOP despite his record being to the left of Obama. They smeared each rival candidate one by one untill Romney was the only one standing, and he was running on a rhetoric that was nothing but lies, but fortunately some of his staffers have been letting the cat out of the bag.

We need to shut corporate influence out of our electoral process.

I started off my life in poverty, that also never stopped me from striving to succeed. I was also born black and that, as far as I'm concerned, never was or is going to be a deciding factor of where I will end up in life.

I grew up in a trailer park and I decided that it wasn't going to hold me back and I like where I am now too. And it was only because I did like you and worked my way out.

You call yourself a black man, and I am a white man, but I have more respect for you than most whites that smoke their incomes away, lazing on the couch watching TV.
You have done something for yourself and that says far more about you than whatever race you might be in.

I'm not for corporate welfare, bail-outs, or anything like that by the way. There is no such thing as too big to fail in my opinion.

Well, the Federal Reserve thinks there is and is letting JP Morgan and Bank of America place their derivatives side of their operation under FDIC protection. When these $154 TRILLION in derivatives blows up along with Europe they are going to try to get the feds to pay it off. Who knows how much the other Wall Street banks like Wells Fargo and Goldman Sux has in derivative contracts as well.

JP Morgan putting $79 TRILLION into FDIC protection
Bloomberg: Bank of America Piling Risk into FDIC Insured Subsidiary

BoA putting $75 TRILLION into FDIC protection
FDIC To Cover Losses On $75 Trillion Bank of America Derivative Bets | Problem Bank List

When I complain about corporate misbehavior this is the kind of thing I am talking about, and Romney was the only major candidate in favor of allowing the FDIC to insure these derivative contracts and is for more bailouts as well.

 

[Missourian]

GZ was armed interfering in another man's life who had no reason to be bothered with by another civilian.

GZ was armed.

The onus is on GZ. That will not change.

Sorry Jake, but you don't have a right not to be bothered.

You do have a right not to be beaten.

You cannot assault people because they bother you.

No law was broken UNTIL Martin assaulted Zimmerman.

That will not change.

 

[JimBowie1958]

GZ was armed interfering in another man's life who had no reason to be bothered with by another civilian.

Bullshit, no one has the right to assault someone because they think that person is 'interfering with their life'. All TM had to do was ask what GZ was following him for, explain what he was doing in the neighborhood and then move on. He did not have the right to beat GZ to the ground.

GZ was armed.

Good for him or he might not be alive.

The onus is on GZ. That will not change.

And the evidence supporting him is there, and that has not changed either.

This arrest is political grandstanding bullshit.

 

[Ariux]

I pray to God that Zimmerman sues the people responsible for ruining his reputation.

Zimmerman probably won't be able to sue anyone. The media can easily hide behind laws protecting the media. If Al Sharpton could be sued for maliciousness, he'd already be living in the poor house.

On the other hand, after Zimmerman is acquitted in criminal court, the Martin family will sue him for civil damages, as well as call for the that other no-limit-nigga, Eric Holder, to bring federal civil rights charges against Zimmerman.

 

[sealybobo]

This case helps Democrats in Florida no matter what happens in the case. The NRA, ALEC and the GOP are not going to come out on top of this issue. And that is good for black people. Or anyone who doesn't like that bullshit gun law that allows murderers like Zimmerman to get away with stalking and murdering a little kid with skittles.

Maybe won't make his parents as happy as sending Zimmerman to jail, but ultimately more important to black people that the Democrats win Florida in November.

 

[Ariux]

that bullshit gun law that allows murderers like Zimmerman to get away with stalking and murdering a little kid with skittles.

6'3" is little? Liberalism, the epitome of stupidity.

A mosquito called for you. It wants its brain back.

 

[JimBowie1958]

This case helps Democrats in Florida no matter what happens in the case. The NRA, ALEC and the GOP are not going to come out on top of this issue. And that is good for black people. Or anyone who doesn't like that bullshit gun law that allows murderers like Zimmerman to get away with stalking and murdering a little kid with skittles.

Maybe won't make his parents as happy as sending Zimmerman to jail, but ultimately more important to black people that the Democrats win Florida in November.

I think this will backfire on the demogogues by November and the biggest factor for the Dems winning Floriduh is Romneys lack of coattails.