Airport Body Scans Reveal All

[RetiredGySgt]

If I am the one who defines what my privacy is, the government wouldn't even be able to look at a damn thing I have or do.
Cmon folks--it's only a scan. It's not a micro chip implant.

Its only a scan today, because that is what today's technology will allow. What will it be tomorrow?

Any damn thing that does not violate the "unreasonable" clause. Pretty damn simple concept.

 

[Toome]

I understand the consentual searches, but passengers know that they will not be subject to a strip search without due process. Due process is denied here with these machines, if they become standard.

I don't think TSA will eliminate the conventional screening method. I think passengers will have a choice. Consider the cost of these machines. I don't see them deployed at every single airport throughout the country. I believe they will be deployed only at certain airports, especially the large hubs that push large volumes of passengers through the gates daily.

By the way, there is no strip search at the airport. No one is required to remove any clothing as part of airport screening. If a matter is referred to airport police, different story. But at that point, Miranda and all the other constitutional obligations already take effect.

Just trying to stick to the real facts.

Real facts which I presented with words "due process." What is difference between these machines and a strip search?

I guess I don't understand your point. If you have a choice between walking through a metal detector and walking through a body scanner, and you deliberately choose to go through a body scanner, then how does "due process" apply when you voluntarily chose to go through the scanner?

When you go to the airport, it should be no surprise that you have to clear security first before boarding the airplane because you agreed to that when you purchased your tickets (whether or not you read the fine print doesn't matter, as established by legal precedent on countless occasions). If you do not want to go through security, then you can turn around any time before you reach the checkpoint and no one is going to force you to submit to any airport security screening. Again, where is the "due process" controversy?

Due process violations apply when the government restricts your freedom without establishing probable cause/reasonable suspicion and/or accuses you of committing a crime without sufficient evidence. None of that applies at the airport UNLESS airport security screening reveals the presence of a firearm, IED, or other violation of law. Instead, you are giving your implied consent to an administrative security search when you walk up to the checkpoint and hand over your boarding pass to the ticket checker at the checkpoint entrance.

This is all pretty fundamental.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

If I am the one who defines what my privacy is, the government wouldn't even be able to look at a damn thing I have or do.
Cmon folks--it's only a scan. It's not a micro chip implant.

Its only a scan today, because that is what today's technology will allow. What will it be tomorrow?

I'll worry about tomorrow if it gets here.

If I am the one who defines what my privacy is, the government wouldn't even be able to look at a damn thing I have or do.
Cmon folks--it's only a scan. It's not a micro chip implant.

Its only a scan today, because that is what today's technology will allow. What will it be tomorrow?

Any damn thing that does not violate the "unreasonable" clause. Pretty damn simple concept.

And back to Franklin-

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

(There DiveCon, I didn't paraphrase, happy?)

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Its only a scan today, because that is what today's technology will allow. What will it be tomorrow?

I'll worry about tomorrow if it gets here.

Its only a scan today, because that is what today's technology will allow. What will it be tomorrow?

Any damn thing that does not violate the "unreasonable" clause. Pretty damn simple concept.

And back to Franklin-

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

(There DiveCon, I didn't paraphrase, happy?)

What Essential Liberty does one give up when consenting to be searched in order to be allowed to fly on a Privately owned aircraft?

 

[CrimsonWhite]

I don't think TSA will eliminate the conventional screening method. I think passengers will have a choice. Consider the cost of these machines. I don't see them deployed at every single airport throughout the country. I believe they will be deployed only at certain airports, especially the large hubs that push large volumes of passengers through the gates daily.

By the way, there is no strip search at the airport. No one is required to remove any clothing as part of airport screening. If a matter is referred to airport police, different story. But at that point, Miranda and all the other constitutional obligations already take effect.

Just trying to stick to the real facts.

Real facts which I presented with words "due process." What is difference between these machines and a strip search?

I guess I don't understand your point. If you have a choice between walking through a metal detector and walking through a body scanner, and you deliberately choose to go through a body scanner, then how does "due process" apply when you voluntarily chose to go through the scanner?

When you go to the airport, it should be no surprise that you have to clear security first before boarding the airplane because you agreed to that when you purchased your tickets (whether or not you read the fine print doesn't matter, as established by legal precedent on countless occasions). If you do not want to go through security, then you can turn around any time before you reach the checkpoint and no one is going to force you to submit to any airport security screening. Again, where is the "due process" controversy?

Due process violations apply when the government restricts your freedom without establishing probable cause/reasonable suspicion and/or accuses you of committing a crime without sufficient evidence. None of that applies at the airport UNLESS airport security screening reveals the presence of a firearm, IED, or other violation of law. Instead, you are giving your implied consent to an administrative security search when you walk up to the checkpoint and hand over your boarding pass to the ticket checker at the checkpoint entrance.

This is all pretty fundamental.

I understand what you are getting at, and for now that is fine. I have no problem with a consented search. My concern is when this becomes mandatory, even if only in a few airports.

 

[xotoxi]

As The Bass can tell you, the human rectum is relatively capacious.

Thus, it can hold a large volume of plastic explosives.

Be prepared for airport checkpoint random anal probings in the future.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I understand the consentual searches, but passengers know that they will not be subject to a strip search without due process. Due process is denied here with these machines, if they become standard.

I don't think TSA will eliminate the conventional screening method. I think passengers will have a choice. Consider the cost of these machines. I don't see them deployed at every single airport throughout the country. I believe they will be deployed only at certain airports, especially the large hubs that push large volumes of passengers through the gates daily.

By the way, there is no strip search at the airport. No one is required to remove any clothing as part of airport screening. If a matter is referred to airport police, different story. But at that point, Miranda and all the other constitutional obligations already take effect.

Just trying to stick to the real facts.

Real facts which I presented with words "due process." What is difference between these machines and a strip search?

The difference is profound. No one actually touches you, no one probes you, no one even sees your face that is viewing the scan at all. Your privacy is maintained completely. And all records are destroyed as soon as the scan is over.

 

[manifold]

I think CW has it correct, and so did Ben Franklin.

Also, this only gives the illusion that we are safe...there is hardly any checking of luggage that goes into the belly of the plane. I'd rather take my chances with exploding planes and not have to bother with taking off my shoes, spending an extra hour with security because I had a bottle of asprin in my computer bag, or watching my kids get wanded because TSA was so inept they forgot to stamp MY ticket in the security lane.

Not to mention that this doesn't even alleviate the need for taking off my damn shoes.

That shoes thing really ticks you off huh?

Something about your feet that your self conscious about?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I think CW has it correct, and so did Ben Franklin.

Also, this only gives the illusion that we are safe...there is hardly any checking of luggage that goes into the belly of the plane. I'd rather take my chances with exploding planes and not have to bother with taking off my shoes, spending an extra hour with security because I had a bottle of asprin in my computer bag, or watching my kids get wanded because TSA was so inept they forgot to stamp MY ticket in the security lane.

Not to mention that this doesn't even alleviate the need for taking off my damn shoes.

That shoes thing really ticks you off huh?

Something about your feet that your self conscious about?

The gnarled toenails that rip her socks and stockings to shreds and the god awful putrid smell of rotting flesh?

 

[Toome]

Real facts which I presented with words "due process." What is difference between these machines and a strip search?

I guess I don't understand your point. If you have a choice between walking through a metal detector and walking through a body scanner, and you deliberately choose to go through a body scanner, then how does "due process" apply when you voluntarily chose to go through the scanner?

When you go to the airport, it should be no surprise that you have to clear security first before boarding the airplane because you agreed to that when you purchased your tickets (whether or not you read the fine print doesn't matter, as established by legal precedent on countless occasions). If you do not want to go through security, then you can turn around any time before you reach the checkpoint and no one is going to force you to submit to any airport security screening. Again, where is the "due process" controversy?

Due process violations apply when the government restricts your freedom without establishing probable cause/reasonable suspicion and/or accuses you of committing a crime without sufficient evidence. None of that applies at the airport UNLESS airport security screening reveals the presence of a firearm, IED, or other violation of law. Instead, you are giving your implied consent to an administrative security search when you walk up to the checkpoint and hand over your boarding pass to the ticket checker at the checkpoint entrance.

This is all pretty fundamental.

I understand what you are getting at, and for now that is fine. I have no problem with a consented search. My concern is when this becomes mandatory, even if only in a few airports.

No disagreement here. But we haven't reached that point.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

I don't think TSA will eliminate the conventional screening method. I think passengers will have a choice. Consider the cost of these machines. I don't see them deployed at every single airport throughout the country. I believe they will be deployed only at certain airports, especially the large hubs that push large volumes of passengers through the gates daily.

By the way, there is no strip search at the airport. No one is required to remove any clothing as part of airport screening. If a matter is referred to airport police, different story. But at that point, Miranda and all the other constitutional obligations already take effect.

Just trying to stick to the real facts.

Real facts which I presented with words "due process." What is difference between these machines and a strip search?

The difference is profound. No one actually touches you, no one probes you, no one even sees your face that is viewing the scan at all. Your privacy is maintained completely. And all records are destroyed as soon as the scan is over.

A distinction your mind, not everyone would share this opinion.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Real facts which I presented with words "due process." What is difference between these machines and a strip search?

The difference is profound. No one actually touches you, no one probes you, no one even sees your face that is viewing the scan at all. Your privacy is maintained completely. And all records are destroyed as soon as the scan is over.

A distinction in your mind, not everyone would share this opinion.

Facts are facts. You can pretend they are not all you want.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

The difference is profound. No one actually touches you, no one probes you, no one even sees your face that is viewing the scan at all. Your privacy is maintained completely. And all records are destroyed as soon as the scan is over.

A distinction in your mind, not everyone would share this opinion.

Facts are facts. You can pretend they are not all you want.

You can't just state opinion and call it fact.

 

[jillian]

The difference is profound. No one actually touches you, no one probes you, no one even sees your face that is viewing the scan at all. Your privacy is maintained completely. And all records are destroyed as soon as the scan is over.

Those are facts, true. However, whether those facts rise to a level of unconstitutionality or not is your opinion.

 

[Ravi]

Yeah, I hate people knowing what color of nail polish I have on without my consent.

It just annoys me because I end up juggling my purse, my computer bag, my shoes and my jacket...and taking my cell phone out. It's a pain. All this because some idiot was too stupid to use a lighter and blow himself up in the bathroom.

it's a joy, isn't it?

with all the juggling, I lost a pair of Bose headphones at the airport when we were leaving on a trip. Grrrrrrrrrrr............

 

[Ravi]

I don't think TSA will eliminate the conventional screening method. I think passengers will have a choice. Consider the cost of these machines. I don't see them deployed at every single airport throughout the country. I believe they will be deployed only at certain airports, especially the large hubs that push large volumes of passengers through the gates daily.

By the way, there is no strip search at the airport. No one is required to remove any clothing as part of airport screening. If a matter is referred to airport police, different story. But at that point, Miranda and all the other constitutional obligations already take effect.

Just trying to stick to the real facts.

Real facts which I presented with words "due process." What is difference between these machines and a strip search?

The difference is profound. No one actually touches you, no one probes you, no one even sees your face that is viewing the scan at all. Your privacy is maintained completely. And all records are destroyed as soon as the scan is over.

So you are saying you have a right to privacy for your face but not your breasts? That's silly.

 

[Yurt]

Real facts which I presented with words "due process." What is difference between these machines and a strip search?

The difference is profound. No one actually touches you, no one probes you, no one even sees your face that is viewing the scan at all. Your privacy is maintained completely. And all records are destroyed as soon as the scan is over.

So you are saying you have a right to privacy for your face but not your breasts? That's silly.

how you read that is beyond me....it looks like he is saying...they don't see your face or any other identifying feature, thus, they have no idea who you are

 

[manifold]

You can't just state opinion and call it fact.

I guess you don't know RGS too well do you?

I envy him sometimes. He's got everything figured out and it's all so simple for him. But then I remember that I can still see my penis and he hasn't seen his since 1992, and that makes me feel better.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

You can't just state opinion and call it fact.

I guess you don't know RGS too well do you?

I envy him sometimes. He's got everything figured out and it's all so simple for him. But then I remember that I can still see my penis and he hasn't seen his since 1992, and that makes me feel better.

 

[Ravi]

The difference is profound. No one actually touches you, no one probes you, no one even sees your face that is viewing the scan at all. Your privacy is maintained completely. And all records are destroyed as soon as the scan is over.

So you are saying you have a right to privacy for your face but not your breasts? That's silly.

how you read that is beyond me....it looks like he is saying...they don't see your face or any other identifying feature, thus, they have no idea who you are

Then why not just put bags over everyone's heads and strip search them?