Air Traffic control shortage is long standing

[Polishprince]

Didn't just happen this year, just another mess left by Sleepy Joe.

But what's really hypocritical about Biden's lack of response is the fact that the libs have bitched and whined about Reagan firing the unionized ATC staff in 1981, but when he had a chance, Biden didn't rehire the fired controllers and rectified the problem? If we needed the staff in the towers and their firing was a "travesty", why not?

Air Traffic Controller shortage: Search your airport's staffing levels

No one knows the struggles going on behind the scenes at the Newark Airport better than retired Air Traffic Controller Colin Scoggins.

abc7ny.com

 

[Dekster]

Both the airports we fly out of are 79% so yay us I suppose.

 

[Twisted Gypsy Child]

Didn't just happen this year, just another mess left by Sleepy Joe.
But what's really hypocritical about Biden's lack of response is the fact that the libs have bitched and whined about Reagan firing the unionized ATC staff in 1981...

Reagan Start
Bush 1
Clinton
Clinton
Bush 2
Bush 2
Obama
Obama
Trump
Biden It is all Biden's fault

 

[Dr.Destructo]

Air Traffic Controllers have been a "hot commodity" since the 70's.

Problem is, it sounds like a fun job............until you get the low down on what they actually have to do, what they are held accountable for, how many hours they have to work............and the craptastic wages they get for it.

 

[candycorn]

More blame shifting by the MAGA folks.

 

[TroglocratsRdumb]

Air Traffic Controller (ATSA) Practice Tests (2025 …​

Jan 24, 2024 · The Air Traffic Skills Assessment (ATSA) is an entry-level assessment that you will have to pass if you want to become an Air Traffic …

The FAA has an aptitude test that people must pass to be hired to be a Controller.
That makes it had to find qualified applicants.
The controller pay is very good.

Air Traffic Controller Salary in 2025: Job Outlook​

How Much Does an Air Traffic Controller Make? Air Traffic Controllers made a median salary of $137,380 in 2023. The best-paid 25% made $176,720 that …

 

[Dekster]

The flight school i went to back in the day had an ATC program that didn't last too many years. It is not a desirable job because trainees soon learned that they could be stuck their entire career working in some airport somewhere they have zero desire to live. You work wherever you are told to work or you don't have a job.

 

[egp320i]

Air Traffic Controllers have been a "hot commodity" since the 70's.

Problem is, it sounds like a fun job............until you get the low down on what they actually have to do, what they are held accountable for, how many hours they have to work............and the craptastic wages they get for it.

I can't agree with that as my dad was an ATC for 42 years first with the FAA and later the DOD
you might not start out high but as you clear sectors the pay goes up fast
he retired a GS13 or 14 good for 48/hr, around 54 with night diff
he also worked 40 hours, easy job, they just needed two controllers all times in case
some A10's came in for a bombing run or apaches

FAA senior controllers are making 140K a year

It's much easier now, solid state screens, no more radar from the 60's and those strips my dad dealt with

he has 3 awards for saving plans from crashing, also he talked to elvis and roy clark here and there

my mom's nephew was so impressed with what he did he went onto be a controller for 40+ years

 

[frigidweirdo]

Didn't just happen this year, just another mess left by Sleepy Joe.

But what's really hypocritical about Biden's lack of response is the fact that the libs have bitched and whined about Reagan firing the unionized ATC staff in 1981, but when he had a chance, Biden didn't rehire the fired controllers and rectified the problem? If we needed the staff in the towers and their firing was a "travesty", why not?

Air Traffic Controller shortage: Search your airport's staffing levels

No one knows the struggles going on behind the scenes at the Newark Airport better than retired Air Traffic Controller Colin Scoggins.

abc7ny.com

Funny how it's Biden's fault after 4 years in office, but not Trump's fault after 4 years in office

 

[egp320i]

Funny how it's Biden's fault after 4 years in office, but not Trump's fault after 4 years in office

I don't think it's any one presidents fault, it's a high demanding stressful job that you must be calm and intelligent
and kids today don't want to sit in a dark office looking at monitors unless they are playing video games
that is for centers, towers are different, you can be more hyper and walk around and you do have light and less stress

 

[frigidweirdo]

I don't think it's any one presidents fault, it's a high demanding stressful job that you must be calm and intelligent
and kids today don't want to sit in a dark office looking at monitors unless they are playing video games
that is for centers, towers are different, you can be more hyper and walk around and you do have light and less stress

Maybe.

Problems seem to be that during covid they didn't need so many, so people left the industry.

Also in 2016 they had peak employment for air traffic controllers, and then it went downhill. If you got such a problem, it needs to be dealt with immediately, it takes 3 years to train new ones. If you wait until it's a problem....

Though I can't say it's the president's job. However I'm sure if it were a problem a president could try and solve it.

 

[egp320i]

Maybe.

Problems seem to be that during covid they didn't need so many, so people left the industry.

Also in 2016 they had peak employment for air traffic controllers, and then it went downhill. If you got such a problem, it needs to be dealt with immediately, it takes 3 years to train new ones. If you wait until it's a problem....

Though I can't say it's the president's job. However I'm sure if it were a problem a president could try and solve it.

I doubt during covid they just laid off ATC's everywhere, still many private airports, DOD, hell overseas.

at one point when I was young I could have ended up in dubai as they were looking for ATC's, kinda glad my dad did not take the job that would have been weird.
you would be protective housing, could only go to so many places and no wandering, sorta like a well paid prisoner

3 years in some academy maybe and those are not quality controllers
no you go into the military like my dad did, 4 years in the air force and learn it right, not some classroom

 

[frigidweirdo]

I doubt during covid they just laid off ATC's everywhere, still many private airports, DOD, hell overseas.

at one point when I was young I could have ended up in dubai as they were looking for ATC's, kinda glad my dad did not take the job that would have been weird.
you would be protective housing, could only go to so many places and no wandering, sorta like a well paid prisoner

3 years in some academy maybe and those are not quality controllers
no you go into the military like my dad did, 4 years in the air force and learn it right, not some classroom

Well, the reality seems to be the number of ATCs dropped massively during covid. It was already dropping from 2016

Is there a shortage of air traffic controllers? | USAFacts

Although hiring has increased and reforms are underway, the FAA is working to close staffing gaps nationwide.

usafacts.org

This is where I'm getting my info from. Went from 22,100 in 2019 to 21,200 during covid, rose to 22,300 in 2023. However there seemed to be an increase from 2019 to 2020 that would have implied more would have been working.

Anyway "
The FAA has attributed several factors to recent understaffing, including:

• COVID-19: The pandemic interrupted staffing due to paused or reduced training. Because the FAA staffs facilities based on the number of scheduled flights, it also reduced the number of employed air traffic controllers when flight volume was down.
• Training: A long training process (two to three years) coupled with limited on-the-job training at facilities that are already understaffed.
• Yearly losses of controllers and trainees: One of the FAA hiring goals is to maintain current staffing levels. However, the administration loses current and training air traffic controllers each year due to promotions and transfers; retirement; training academy attrition; and resignations, firings/layoffs, and deaths. "

 

[egp320i]

Well, the reality seems to be the number of ATCs dropped massively during covid. It was already dropping from 2016

Is there a shortage of air traffic controllers? | USAFacts

Although hiring has increased and reforms are underway, the FAA is working to close staffing gaps nationwide.

usafacts.org

This is where I'm getting my info from. Went from 22,100 in 2019 to 21,200 during covid, rose to 22,300 in 2023. However there seemed to be an increase from 2019 to 2020 that would have implied more would have been working.

Anyway "
The FAA has attributed several factors to recent understaffing, including:

• COVID-19: The pandemic interrupted staffing due to paused or reduced training. Because the FAA staffs facilities based on the number of scheduled flights, it also reduced the number of employed air traffic controllers when flight volume was down.
• Training: A long training process (two to three years) coupled with limited on-the-job training at facilities that are already understaffed.
• Yearly losses of controllers and trainees: One of the FAA hiring goals is to maintain current staffing levels. However, the administration loses current and training air traffic controllers each year due to promotions and transfers; retirement; training academy attrition; and resignations, firings/layoffs, and deaths. "

all factor in but as noted schools are not the best place
go in the military, do 4 years, get paid, learn some valuable life skills and likely some friends for life

all jobs in this category are going to have some attrition, I doubt many get fired unless they just can't handle the stress or really screw up too many times, we are talking life and death here, sure those who retire like my dad and cousin and yes those to transfer to DOD to a tower at a military base which still pays very well with a fraction of the stress of a center

 

[frigidweirdo]

all factor in but as noted schools are not the best place
go in the military, do 4 years, get paid, learn some valuable life skills and likely some friends for life

all jobs in this category are going to have some attrition, I doubt many get fired unless they just can't handle the stress or really screw up too many times, we are talking life and death here, sure those who retire like my dad and cousin and yes those to transfer to DOD to a tower at a military base which still pays very well with a fraction of the stress of a center

Not really what people want these days, is it? To join a military that might get you killed.

 

[egp320i]

Not really what people want these days, is it? To join a military that might get you killed.

well.......if you go into be an ATC they are not going to put you in the front lines with that skill
if you go into the marines or army for infantry......well yeah
those are the ones that score low on the ASVAB
the military is not dumb, somebody who could be an engineer is too smart to put a rifle in their hand and say point and shoot

 

[Dr.Destructo]

I can't agree with that as my dad was an ATC for 42 years first with the FAA and later the DOD
you might not start out high but as you clear sectors the pay goes up fast
he retired a GS13 or 14 good for 48/hr, around 54 with night diff
he also worked 40 hours, easy job, they just needed two controllers all times in case
some A10's came in for a bombing run or apaches

FAA senior controllers are making 140K a year

It's much easier now, solid state screens, no more radar from the 60's and those strips my dad dealt with

he has 3 awards for saving plans from crashing, also he talked to elvis and roy clark here and there

my mom's nephew was so impressed with what he did he went onto be a controller for 40+ years

I never said there aren't people who can't handle it, but when I checked it out in the 80's, it was a crapshoot apparently.

$140K a year might have been significant back then, but now it's basically minimum wage.

 

[toobfreak]

Air Traffic control shortage is long standing​

Interesting that we have professors writing their thesis on AI, AI driving our cars around town, yet, the airline industry still needs people to fly and land planes.

Planes with massive computers already in them.

Why can't all of these planes form one intelligent network all sharing each other's position and destinations, then work out between each other the best flight patterns and landing/takeoffs?

 

[egp320i]

I never said there aren't people who can't handle it, but when I checked it out in the 80's, it was a crapshoot apparently.

$140K a year might have been significant back then, but now it's basically minimum wage.

I'd love to know where 70/hr is minimum wage!

The 80's were a tough time, they had vastly outdated equipment that was long overdue and our government would not spend a dime, controllers struggled and the job was very stressful
after he retired we talked about it, they would have radar screens go blank for 30 seconds to over a minute and they had no clue where the planes were at in the sky..
when it did come back on it was a scramble to find them

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Interesting that we have professors writing their thesis on AI, AI driving our cars around town, yet, the airline industry still needs people to fly and land planes.

Planes with massive computers already in them.

Why can't all of these planes form one intelligent network all sharing each other's position and destinations, then work out between each other the best flight patterns and landing/takeoffs?

Did you forget the problems with the 737 Max software that caused several crashes because the pilots could not overcome the computers errors?