Against your interests

[JoeB131]

Some people on this forum marvel that anyone votes against their interest. Personally, I marvel that more people don't. If the true goal of your life is to put others first, and to support your country of your party, you should always be willing to vote against your interests. Not voting against your personal interests in the pursuit of a better life for everyone is the sign of a selfish person, not a healthy, well adjusted, individual.

That works on the philosophy that when you vote for the interests of the wealthy over your own, it is good for the country. Usually, it isn't.

Let's take my very favorite one, Free Trade.

It's in the wealthy's interest. It allows them to make bigger profits, crush the middle class by forcing it to accept increasingly lower wages, circumvent common sense environmental and labor laws good people have fought for nearly a century to get.

But where does it help Joe Working Guy? Well, Joe might be able to buy cheaper stuff at Wal-Mart. But that doesn't help when his paycheck goes down.

In fact, the reason why this recession has lasted so long is because EVERYONE has cut back on spending. Get a few more years out of that old car, patch up that old couch when you probably need a new one, and so on.

Of course, the wealthy have gotten very good at propagandizing this point to fool stupid people into voting against their own interests. And if that doesn't work, they always have the Religious distractions. "Hey, I might be moving your good paying job overseas, but that liberal is for gay marriage and abortion!"

 

[PratchettFan]

I'm sure it's just coincidence that liberals declare that's it's in everyone's best interests to keep liberals in power.

Yeah. Coincidence. Has to be.

I agreed that the phrase is incorrect, but is the sentiment?

For the sake of argument, strictly hypothetical, let's say that economics was the only factor in your vote AND what the left claims is true that the Republican party is working to protect the rich and powerful at the expense of the middle class and poor.

If that were true, then would voting for them if you're not in the upper class be logical?

No, it wouldn't.

Yet your caveats are not based on reality.

"A rising tide lifts all boats."

That only works if you are in a boat.

 

[saveliberty]

Most voters are thinking financial interests when they vote. Since that is their focus, it gives opportunity for politicans to take power interests from them. In the long run the financial interests can't be maintained, but the politicans STILL have the power.

 

[Katzndogz]

It all comes down to what people might perceive as their best interests. I doubt there would be many votes to legalize theft because the thief needs that property more than the owner. Is they owner being selfish in voting in his own interest to keep theft illegal even though it punishes the poor thief?

 

[Avorysuds]

It’s a tough question to answer. What is your best interest?

If SS – MC/MC- Welfare – min wage were “for my best interest,” then why is the country failing? I just listed about 55% of the money spent each year by our Government.

It seems to me that my best interest is more freedom and smaller Government that actually follows the constitution. I say this because Doctors are rejecting MC, SS is failing and projected to end well before I would ever collect and welfare is wildly proven to keep people in poverty.

 

[daveman]

I agreed that the phrase is incorrect, but is the sentiment?

For the sake of argument, strictly hypothetical, let's say that economics was the only factor in your vote AND what the left claims is true that the Republican party is working to protect the rich and powerful at the expense of the middle class and poor.

If that were true, then would voting for them if you're not in the upper class be logical?

No, it wouldn't.

Yet your caveats are not based on reality.

"A rising tide lifts all boats."

That only works if you are in a boat.

The left wants to regulate boats out of existence to protect endangered species.

 

[JoeB131]

It’s a tough question to answer. What is your best interest?

If SS – MC/MC- Welfare – min wage were “for my best interest,” then why is the country failing? I just listed about 55% of the money spent each year by our Government.

It seems to me that my best interest is more freedom and smaller Government that actually follows the constitution. I say this because Doctors are rejecting MC, SS is failing and projected to end well before I would ever collect and welfare is wildly proven to keep people in poverty.

The country is failing because

1) The wealth is concentrated at the top instead of evenly distributed.

2) We are bleeding 500 Billion a year in trade deficits.

Nothing to do with these common sense programs that keep people from starving or dying from treatable diseases.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Nothing to do with these common sense programs that keep people from starving or dying from treatable diseases.

It is the mindset that keeps people from preventing themselves starving and being prepared to treat cureable ills by their own hand that is the problem.

That safety net has been expanded to a hammock.

 

[saveliberty]

It’s a tough question to answer. What is your best interest?

If SS – MC/MC- Welfare – min wage were “for my best interest,” then why is the country failing? I just listed about 55% of the money spent each year by our Government.

It seems to me that my best interest is more freedom and smaller Government that actually follows the constitution. I say this because Doctors are rejecting MC, SS is failing and projected to end well before I would ever collect and welfare is wildly proven to keep people in poverty.

The country is failing because

1) The wealth is concentrated at the top instead of evenly distributed.

2) We are bleeding 500 Billion a year in trade deficits.

Nothing to do with these common sense programs that keep people from starving or dying from treatable diseases.

Country is failing because some think even distribution is a goal.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

By voting in a manner that ensures the preservation of individual liberty, the right to privacy, the right to due process, and the right to equal protection of the law for the most unpopular and marginalized segments of the American population, one ensures his civil liberties are preserved as well.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

That works on the philosophy that when you vote for the interests of the wealthy over your own, it is good for the country. Usually, it isn't.

No it doesn't.

Let's take my very favorite one, Free Trade.

Goody, this will be fin.

It's in the wealthy's interest. It allows them to make bigger profits, crush the middle class by forcing it to accept increasingly lower wages, circumvent common sense environmental and labor laws good people have fought for nearly a century to get.

The way this works is you make claim, you back it up. What do you have to back up the claim that wealthy people benefit from free trade by cutting the wages of their workers?

But where does it help Joe Working Guy? Well, Joe might be able to buy cheaper stuff at Wal-Mart. But that doesn't help when his paycheck goes down.

It doesn't help Average Joe that something that used to cost $800 can now be bought at WalMart for $50?

Edited. Civil Discourse.

In fact, the reason why this recession has lasted so long is because EVERYONE has cut back on spending. Get a few more years out of that old car, patch up that old couch when you probably need a new one, and so on.

And that has nothing to do with anything the government has done, does it?

Of course, the wealthy have gotten very good at propagandizing this point to fool stupid people into voting against their own interests. And if that doesn't work, they always have the Religious distractions. "Hey, I might be moving your good paying job overseas, but that liberal is for gay marriage and abortion!"

The "good paying" jobs that got moved overseas are almost entirely made up of low skill, labor intensive, work that has been replaced in the US with robots. Why do you want to force people to stand on their feet all day sticking small parts in a gizmo that will eventually be part of the steering mechanism of a truck rather than letting them go to college to learn to do something fulfilling?

 

[Steelplate]

I'm sure it's just coincidence that liberals declare that's it's in everyone's best interests to keep liberals in power.

Yeah. Coincidence. Has to be.

C'mon Dave, don't be like that....you feel the same way about Conservatives. That's exactly like the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[Steelplate]

It’s a tough question to answer. What is your best interest?

If SS – MC/MC- Welfare – min wage were “for my best interest,” then why is the country failing? I just listed about 55% of the money spent each year by our Government.

It seems to me that my best interest is more freedom and smaller Government that actually follows the constitution. I say this because Doctors are rejecting MC, SS is failing and projected to end well before I would ever collect and welfare is wildly proven to keep people in poverty.

The country is failing because

1) The wealth is concentrated at the top instead of evenly distributed.

2) We are bleeding 500 Billion a year in trade deficits.

Nothing to do with these common sense programs that keep people from starving or dying from treatable diseases.

Country is failing because some think even distribution is a goal.

you're right....CONSERVATIVES think that LIBERALS want even distribution as a goal....which is patently false.

 

[Steelplate]

That works on the philosophy that when you vote for the interests of the wealthy over your own, it is good for the country. Usually, it isn't.

No it doesn't.

Let's take my very favorite one, Free Trade.

Goody, this will be fin.



The way this works is you make claim, you back it up. What do you have to back up the claim that wealthy people benefit from free trade by cutting the wages of their workers?



It doesn't help Average Joe that something that used to cost $800 can now be bought at WalMart for $50?

In fact, the reason why this recession has lasted so long is because EVERYONE has cut back on spending. Get a few more years out of that old car, patch up that old couch when you probably need a new one, and so on.

And that has nothing to do with anything the government has done, does it?

Of course, the wealthy have gotten very good at propagandizing this point to fool stupid people into voting against their own interests. And if that doesn't work, they always have the Religious distractions. "Hey, I might be moving your good paying job overseas, but that liberal is for gay marriage and abortion!"

The "good paying" jobs that got moved overseas are almost entirely made up of low skill, labor intensive, work that has been replaced in the US with robots. Why do you want to force people to stand on their feet all day sticking small parts in a gizmo that will eventually be part of the steering mechanism of a truck rather than letting them go to college to learn to do something fulfilling?

ummm..while we're waiting on Joe yo back up his assertions.... I invite you to do the same. Namely, in your one paragraph about the $800 item now costing $50....simply because of outsourcing alone....not technological advances or anything like that.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

That works on the philosophy that when you vote for the interests of the wealthy over your own, it is good for the country. Usually, it isn't.

No it doesn't.



Goody, this will be fin.



The way this works is you make claim, you back it up. What do you have to back up the claim that wealthy people benefit from free trade by cutting the wages of their workers?



It doesn't help Average Joe that something that used to cost $800 can now be bought at WalMart for $50?

Excuse me while I marvel at your monumental lack of compassion for the working man.



And that has nothing to do with anything the government has done, does it?

Of course, the wealthy have gotten very good at propagandizing this point to fool stupid people into voting against their own interests. And if that doesn't work, they always have the Religious distractions. "Hey, I might be moving your good paying job overseas, but that liberal is for gay marriage and abortion!"

The "good paying" jobs that got moved overseas are almost entirely made up of low skill, labor intensive, work that has been replaced in the US with robots. Why do you want to force people to stand on their feet all day sticking small parts in a gizmo that will eventually be part of the steering mechanism of a truck rather than letting them go to college to learn to do something fulfilling?

ummm..while we're waiting on Joe yo back up his assertions.... I invite you to do the same. Namely, in your one paragraph about the $800 item now costing $50....simply because of outsourcing alone....not technological advances or anything like that.

Wow.

Microwaves used to cost upwards of $800 dollars. You can now go to WalMart and purchase a microwave that easily has as much cooking power as the earliest RadarRange for $50. The reason for this is not just because technology has improved, that would be an absurd assertion. The difference is that it is not possible to mine the materials needed to build the oven in China, ship them to Europe to refine them, then ship refined ore back to China to make the parts, and then send those parts to the US for final assembly. If we go back to the good old days when we did not have free trade every step of that process would be subject to tariffs and trade sanctions which would increase the cost.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The "good paying" jobs that got moved overseas are almost entirely made up of low skill, labor intensive, work that has been replaced in the US with robots. Why do you want to force people to stand on their feet all day sticking small parts in a gizmo that will eventually be part of the steering mechanism of a truck rather than letting them go to college to learn to do something fulfilling?

Edited.

Does that mean you have no evidence to back you your claims?

 

[Steelplate]

No it doesn't.



Goody, this will be fin.



The way this works is you make claim, you back it up. What do you have to back up the claim that wealthy people benefit from free trade by cutting the wages of their workers?



It doesn't help Average Joe that something that used to cost $800 can now be bought at WalMart for $50?

Excuse me while I marvel at your monumental lack of compassion for the working man.



And that has nothing to do with anything the government has done, does it?



The "good paying" jobs that got moved overseas are almost entirely made up of low skill, labor intensive, work that has been replaced in the US with robots. Why do you want to force people to stand on their feet all day sticking small parts in a gizmo that will eventually be part of the steering mechanism of a truck rather than letting them go to college to learn to do something fulfilling?

ummm..while we're waiting on Joe yo back up his assertions.... I invite you to do the same. Namely, in your one paragraph about the $800 item now costing $50....simply because of outsourcing alone....not technological advances or anything like that.

Wow.

Microwaves used to cost upwards of $800 dollars. You can now go to WalMart and purchase a microwave that easily has as much cooking power as the earliest RadarRange for $50. The reason for this is not just because technology has improved, that would be an absurd assertion. The difference is that it is not possible to mine the materials needed to build the oven in China, ship them to Europe to refine them, then ship refined ore back to China to make the parts, and then send those parts to the US for final assembly. If we go back to the good old days when we did not have free trade every step of that process would be subject to tariffs and trade sanctions which would increase the cost.

Even if what you say is true...which I think you are embellishing, those items are durable goods, which you only have to purchase once every what? 10 years or so? plus,there is no reason we can't use our own supply of rare earth minerals. We have them...we can get them, we can refine them....all right here.

But, let's talk about NEEDED goods and services, not luxuries and convenience items...rent/mortgages, utilities, transportation, medical care, food, education beyond High School. Sure, an Mp3 player or a flat screen TV is nice... but those other things are NEEDS. Perhaps our system has it's priorities screwed up.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

ummm..while we're waiting on Joe yo back up his assertions.... I invite you to do the same. Namely, in your one paragraph about the $800 item now costing $50....simply because of outsourcing alone....not technological advances or anything like that.

Wow.

Microwaves used to cost upwards of $800 dollars. You can now go to WalMart and purchase a microwave that easily has as much cooking power as the earliest RadarRange for $50. The reason for this is not just because technology has improved, that would be an absurd assertion. The difference is that it is not possible to mine the materials needed to build the oven in China, ship them to Europe to refine them, then ship refined ore back to China to make the parts, and then send those parts to the US for final assembly. If we go back to the good old days when we did not have free trade every step of that process would be subject to tariffs and trade sanctions which would increase the cost.

Even if what you say is true...which I think you are embellishing, those items are durable goods, which you only have to purchase once every what? 10 years or so? plus,there is no reason we can't use our own supply of rare earth minerals. We have them...we can get them, we can refine them....all right here.

But, let's talk about NEEDED goods and services, not luxuries and convenience items...rent/mortgages, utilities, transportation, medical care, food, education beyond High School. Sure, an Mp3 player or a flat screen TV is nice... but those other things are NEEDS. Perhaps our system has it's priorities screwed up.

There actually is a few reasons we can't use our own supply of rare earths, not the least of which is that we have no source of dysprosium that exists outside of China. Then we have all the regulatory hurdles that are involved in actually mining anything in this country for the elements that are actually commercially available in the US.

Yes, lets talk needed parts and services, and define what, exactly, those are? Clothing? To make clothing we need a manufacturing base to build the machinery to grow cotton, harvest it, process it, ship the fabric, cut it, sew it, and then ship it to the local stores to sell it.

Maybe it is not our priorities that is screwed up, maybe it is your understanding of the entire economy. Unless, that is, you think clothing is a luxury.

 

[Steelplate]

Wow.

Microwaves used to cost upwards of $800 dollars. You can now go to WalMart and purchase a microwave that easily has as much cooking power as the earliest RadarRange for $50. The reason for this is not just because technology has improved, that would be an absurd assertion. The difference is that it is not possible to mine the materials needed to build the oven in China, ship them to Europe to refine them, then ship refined ore back to China to make the parts, and then send those parts to the US for final assembly. If we go back to the good old days when we did not have free trade every step of that process would be subject to tariffs and trade sanctions which would increase the cost.

Even if what you say is true...which I think you are embellishing, those items are durable goods, which you only have to purchase once every what? 10 years or so? plus,there is no reason we can't use our own supply of rare earth minerals. We have them...we can get them, we can refine them....all right here.

But, let's talk about NEEDED goods and services, not luxuries and convenience items...rent/mortgages, utilities, transportation, medical care, food, education beyond High School. Sure, an Mp3 player or a flat screen TV is nice... but those other things are NEEDS. Perhaps our system has it's priorities screwed up.

There actually is a few reasons we can't use our own supply of rare earths, not the least of which is that we have no source of dysprosium that exists outside of China. Then we have all the regulatory hurdles that are involved in actually mining anything in this country for the elements that are actually commercially available in the US.

Yes, lets talk needed parts and services, and define what, exactly, those are? Clothing? To make clothing we need a manufacturing base to build the machinery to grow cotton, harvest it, process it, ship the fabric, cut it, sew it, and then ship it to the local stores to sell it.

Maybe it is not our priorities that is screwed up, maybe it is your understanding of the entire economy. Unless, that is, you think clothing is a luxury.

wow....excuse me...I forgot one.

 

[hortysir]

It’s a tough question to answer. What is your best interest?

If SS – MC/MC- Welfare – min wage were “for my best interest,” then why is the country failing? I just listed about 55% of the money spent each year by our Government.

It seems to me that my best interest is more freedom and smaller Government that actually follows the constitution. I say this because Doctors are rejecting MC, SS is failing and projected to end well before I would ever collect and welfare is wildly proven to keep people in poverty.

The country is failing because

1) The wealth is concentrated at the top instead of evenly distributed.

2) We are bleeding 500 Billion a year in trade deficits.

Nothing to do with these common sense programs that keep people from starving or dying from treatable diseases.

Wealth distribution works best when it flows through Free Enterprise, NOT through Government Mandate.