ACA A Success?

[Sun Devil 92]

Well, the state run healthcare exchanges of Oregon and Massachusetts have gone under – and it appears California's is going next. My question is – what happens to all those forced into this stuff by government threats? If they had coverage before, what do they do now? And, where can they go now to get coverage? At what price?


Read more @ Da Tech Guy Blog Blog Archive Covered California about to be the latest failed state ObamaCare exchange

I suspect it is a success if you are getting health insurance via the subsidies provided.

I suspect you'd think it a bust if you were screwed out of your plan.

 

[Arianrhod]

Well, the state run healthcare exchanges of Oregon and Massachusetts have gone under – and it appears California's is going next. My question is – what happens to all those forced into this stuff by government threats? If they had coverage before, what do they do now? And, where can they go now to get coverage? At what price?


Read more @ Da Tech Guy Blog Blog Archive Covered California about to be the latest failed state ObamaCare exchange

I suspect it is a success if you are getting health insurance via the subsidies provided.

I suspect you'd think it a bust if you were screwed out of your plan.

Whereas the guy whose mole turns out to be a precursor of melanoma is grateful his doctor will be spending less time on paperwork and more time examining him. But as long as that guy isn't you, who cares? Right?

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Well, the state run healthcare exchanges of Oregon and Massachusetts have gone under – and it appears California's is going next. My question is – what happens to all those forced into this stuff by government threats? If they had coverage before, what do they do now? And, where can they go now to get coverage? At what price?


Read more @ Da Tech Guy Blog Blog Archive Covered California about to be the latest failed state ObamaCare exchange

I suspect it is a success if you are getting health insurance via the subsidies provided.

I suspect you'd think it a bust if you were screwed out of your plan.

But as long as that guy isn't you, who cares? Right?

Making more stuff up ?

Of course you are.

It's amazing that your view of the world is reduced to thinking that Alan Grayson was at all accurate.

 

[Arianrhod]

Making more stuff up ?

Oh, you do care about somebody besides yourself? (See, no space before the question mark.) Please clarify.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Making more stuff up ?

Oh, you do care about somebody besides yourself? (See, no space before the question mark.) Please clarify.

So, you admit to posting something that wasn't true.

Shock......

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Well, the state run healthcare exchanges of Oregon and Massachusetts have gone under – and it appears California's is going next. My question is – what happens to all those forced into this stuff by government threats? If they had coverage before, what do they do now? And, where can they go now to get coverage? At what price?


Read more @ Da Tech Guy Blog Blog Archive Covered California about to be the latest failed state ObamaCare exchange

Missed the part about Mass.

Wow.

 

[Arianrhod]

Making more stuff up ?

Oh, you do care about somebody besides yourself? (See, no space before the question mark.) Please clarify.

So, you admit to posting something that wasn't true.

Shock......

What?

 

[Sun Devil 92]

A post from September and it finally registers......

 

[Arianrhod]

A post from September and it finally registers......

That I misjudged you to be intelligent and honest? Yeah, I was relatively new to the board at the time.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Oregon quits Obamacare biz; feds pick up the slack

Oregon's deeply troubled state-run Obamacare exchange voted unanimously Friday to give up. It decided to let the federal exchange HealthCare.gov take over enrollment for the state's residents next year.
In doing so, Oregon becomes the first state to get out of the private Obamacare plan enrollment business, and the second to abandon its existing online market because of serious technology problems.

 

[emilynghiem]

Whereas the guy whose mole turns out to be a precursor of melanoma is grateful his doctor will be spending less time on paperwork and more time examining him. But as long as that guy isn't you, who cares? Right?

Dear Arianrhod
You mean the doctors who are still around to practice, right?
And not the doctors who retired early because of the paperwork they couldn't support
that interfered with their old fashioned ways of serving people personally.

Why Doctors Are Quitting - And Why It's Not Obama's Fault

You can blame that on older doctors "aging out of the system"

But what about older generations who LIKED the old fashioned approach to medicine?
Where you KNEW your family physician, and didn't just jump around to whatever
clinic in the network is covered by this or that insurance.

The medical profession and ethics I grew up around were the community
took care of its members. It wasn't built around insurance, but built around
commitment and relations between people locally. We need to get back to that, instead of
supplanting the personal Mom and Pop approach with the cheapest Wal-Mart supply chain.

Our education system has also suffered the loss of teachers who used
to teach the old-fashioned way, and is now full of teachers forced to teach to the tests
in order to get funding. I had teachers who knew the parents of my classmates and knew
their brothers and sisters because they'd all gone through the same school district.
Now I hear from teachers that when they get a classroom of over 40 students to teach,
they are actually glad when kids drop out or don't show up, because the fewer kids, the more
manageable and productive they can be.

You wonder why there is crime, when people have no loyalty or stake in the community they rob or abuse.
Or why there is corruption or negligence like in Flint.
When people are removed, and don't have direct relations and vested interest in the community,
how can we expect to run things effectively with accountability?

If you want to make everything the same, like shopping at Wal-Mart,
how soon before we miss the homemade one-of-a-kind approach?

Sure it's more accessible, and more people can afford Wal-Mart.
But at what price? Is it worth it to lose our local Mom and Pop establishments?

Why can't we base our economy on the real longterm relations, and
then work the rest out based on that foundation?
What it REALLY takes to run a town on a sustainable basis,
where people CAN get to the doctor or hospital and
the population can cover its own supply and demand?

If we organized communities more effectively this way, to preserve and build on relationships,
we wouldn't have so much crime, and waste so many billions to prosecute and incarcerate
people with dysfunctional relations. So wouldn't that allow us to pay for schools and health
care without such a crisis that we have to run to federal govt to mandate how to manage each locale?
Can't we work that out ourselves, like how towns used to be built and developed to support themselves?
Why can't we build on that basis?

 

[Sun Devil 92]

OregonHealthcare.gov Home

Looks like it followed through.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

If we organized communities more effectively this way, to preserve and build on relationships,
we wouldn't have so much crime, and waste so many billions to prosecute and incarcerate
people with dysfunctional relations. So wouldn't that allow us to pay for schools and health
care without such a crisis that we have to run to federal govt to mandate how to manage each locale?
Can't we work that out ourselves, like how towns used to be built and developed to support themselves?
Why can't we build on that basis?

Somewhere along the line, people were sold on the idea that government was necessary for you to have some kind of quality of life.

A total lie.

That, coupled with the out and out greed of the uberwealthy......

 

[emilynghiem]

If we organized communities more effectively this way, to preserve and build on relationships,
we wouldn't have so much crime, and waste so many billions to prosecute and incarcerate
people with dysfunctional relations. So wouldn't that allow us to pay for schools and health
care without such a crisis that we have to run to federal govt to mandate how to manage each locale?
Can't we work that out ourselves, like how towns used to be built and developed to support themselves?
Why can't we build on that basis?

Somewhere along the line, people were sold on the idea that government was necessary for you to have some kind of quality of life.

A total lie.

That, coupled with the out and out greed of the uberwealthy......

Sun Devil 92
The problem is people framing govt from the top down instead of bottom up.

When contracts are formed between consenting adults, the parties to the contract AGREE on terms,
and then enforce that together.

What goes wrong is when parties DON'T agree to a contract.
Instead of resolving the conflicts so the parties CAN agree (ie equal protection and representation by law)
people are taking a shortcut, and rely on bringing in a third party such as govt
to FORCE the other side to comply with what THEY want in the contract.

this is NOT protecting interests equally.
People use parties and govt as a shortcut to FORCE their agenda on others as MANDATORY
because it is established through govt.

To make matters worse, the parties collect members around divergent political beliefs.
So one group uses collective influence to lobby to DEPEND on govt to keep pushing social agenda, since they see no other way to establish or protect their interests except by using govt, and using party to collectively lobby.

The other group ideally wants to minimalize govt and have people run programs by managing them locally and directly themselves to ensure accountability among the people affected who thus have a vested interest;
but this comes across as removing govt protections and regulations so corporate interests can run even more amok. And if this group asks for accountability and choice of funding or not, that is criticized as selfish instead of trying to promote responsibility.

I hope we can survive whatever stage of political development we are going through.
I hope people in the different parties figure out that we need to work together, and respect
and organize along our different angles instead of fighting to dominate over each other.

I still think the political and cultural diversity can be accompanied by
"working from the grassroots level up"
while the policies and programs all people AGREE to fund and support
can be managed through CENTRALIZED govt.

the main problems I see is if people don't resolve conflicts directly between groups,
then the bullying and competing for dominance kicks in that gets abusive.

If we resolved these conflicts and/or agreed to separate civilly,
then we wouldn't need to abuse govt or party to force one way on others.
We'd be too busy organizing our own solutions around each party base,
and using those solutions to BUILD govt from the grassroots level up;
instead of abusing govt to dictate from the top down.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

If we organized communities more effectively this way, to preserve and build on relationships,
we wouldn't have so much crime, and waste so many billions to prosecute and incarcerate
people with dysfunctional relations. So wouldn't that allow us to pay for schools and health
care without such a crisis that we have to run to federal govt to mandate how to manage each locale?
Can't we work that out ourselves, like how towns used to be built and developed to support themselves?
Why can't we build on that basis?

Somewhere along the line, people were sold on the idea that government was necessary for you to have some kind of quality of life.

A total lie.

That, coupled with the out and out greed of the uberwealthy......

Sun Devil 92
The problem is people framing govt from the top down instead of bottom up.

When contracts are formed between consenting adults, the parties to the contract AGREE on terms,
and then enforce that together.

What goes wrong is when parties DON'T agree to a contract.
Instead of resolving the conflicts so the parties CAN agree (ie equal protection and representation by law)
people are taking a shortcut, and rely on bringing in a third party such as govt
to FORCE the other side to comply with what THEY want in the contract.

this is NOT protecting interests equally.
People use parties and govt as a shortcut to FORCE their agenda on others as MANDATORY
because it is established through govt.

To make matters worse, the parties collect members around divergent political beliefs.
So one group uses collective influence to lobby to DEPEND on govt to keep pushing social agenda, since they see no other way to establish or protect their interests except by using govt, and using party to collectively lobby.

The other group ideally wants to minimalize govt and have people run programs by managing them locally and directly themselves to ensure accountability among the people affected who thus have a vested interest;
but this comes across as removing govt protections and regulations so corporate interests can run even more amok. And if this group asks for accountability and choice of funding or not, that is criticized as selfish instead of trying to promote responsibility.

I hope we can survive whatever stage of political development we are going through.
I hope people in the different parties figure out that we need to work together, and respect
and organize along our different angles instead of fighting to dominate over each other.

I still think the political and cultural diversity can be accompanied by
"working from the grassroots level up"
while the policies and programs all people AGREE to fund and support
can be managed through CENTRALIZED govt.

the main problems I see is if people don't resolve conflicts directly between groups,
then the bullying and competing for dominance kicks in that gets abusive.

If we resolved these conflicts and/or agreed to separate civilly,
then we wouldn't need to abuse govt or party to force one way on others.
We'd be too busy organizing our own solutions around each party base,
and using those solutions to BUILD govt from the grassroots level up;
instead of abusing govt to dictate from the top down.

Emily,

Most of what you describe here is a statement about government.

The following is sometimes attributed to George Washington (but it has never been proven he said it....still makes it no less true):

Government is not reason, it is not eloquence — it is force. Like fire it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action.

We've let it become our master.

We don't need Obamacare.

We've reduced the number of uninsured by abot 5% of the total population. Even then, for many of them...it's not been very useful.

 

[Maryland Patriot]

If Obamacare were failing the GOP candidates would be hammering on it at the top of their list of priorities in their campaigns.

They are not.

why so the left could use it as a political ploy during the elections?
The mean republicans want to take away your right to health care and leave millions of people dying in the street.
and their minions will soak it up as truth, even though there is NO RIGHT TO HEALTHCARE and nobody will be dying in the streets.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

If Obamacare were failing the GOP candidates would be hammering on it at the top of their list of priorities in their campaigns.

They are not.

why so the left could use it as a political ploy during the elections?
The mean republicans want to take away your right to health care and leave millions of people dying in the street.
and their minions will soak it up as truth, even though there is NO RIGHT TO HEALTHCARE and nobody will be dying in the streets.

Correct.

They were not dying before (Harvard said they were....but could not produce the bodies).

They won't die now.

However, lots of people will suffer duress because of their high insurance premiums.

 

[basquebromance]

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Now the question is just what are spending on and how does it compare to what others are spending it on.

If you've got a good side-by-side comparison, I'd be very interested.

And I mean that.....

But your little poster is only useful if there is a toilet paper shortage.

 

[Muhammed]

Was the ACA a success?

I guess that would depend on your perspective. If you are a guy like me with a negotiated health care plan that was negotiated by a strong union there isn't much difference.

To other working class people who are too stupid to unionize...they got fucked.

To the poor... it's a godsend.

To insurance company executives, it's been a treasure bath.