Abortion: Why Men Don't Get A Say

[JBeukema]

Dominic Holt-Reid, Man Who Tried to Force Girlfriend to Have an Abortion, Charged With Attempted Murder | Scene and Heard: Scene's News Blog

Now imagine if men could legally compel women to abort or not?

How can it be murder to compel her to not commit murder?



Y'all need to make up your minds

What do you imagine the criminal in the Op was planning to do if his girlfriend resisted? He had a .45 -- it wasn't just for show. Would it have mattered to you in evaluating his crimes if he had been trying to prevent her from aborting?

IMO, either fact pattern is criminal.

Aiming a gun at you and forcing you to do something isn't attempted murder.


We don't charge every bank robber with attempted murder.


Who's the alleged victim when it comes to the 'attempted murder' charge?

 

[JBeukema]

Five minutes after I knew that a chick in my freshman high school class suicided over being preggers and unable to face it. These fetuses you're so fond of (and yes, I love babies too) are sometimes female.

Should your daughter not own her own body? Should her boyfriend get to "rent" it for nine months against her will?

An separate organism is not part of her body...

This is a philosphical argument, JB, not a medical fact.

Fail. It's basic biology. Did you never take any science classes at all?

 

[JBeukema]

Wait a minute, isn't one of the big abortion arguments that it isn't used mainly as a form of birth control? well how does that square with Maddie's claim?

How many of them didn't use contraception [properly] in the first place?

Condoms, the pill, the foam, the rods, female condoms... so many options to choose from and so many of them free from liberal feminist groups and Planned Parenthood...

What ever is a young slut to do?

Ah yes, the anti-female rage. Blame her and shame her...drag your knuckles much writing this post, JB?

Nothing I said was anti-female. It was anti-hypocritical slut.

True feminists take responsibility for their own reproductive options, including both birth control and caring for their children. They don't feel a pathetic need to invert the old system of exploitation and sexual domination, nor do they feel a need to punish their sexual partner or rely upon a man's finances.

 

[JBeukema]

The fact of the matter is that both men and women are equally responsible for conception.

However, for gestation, the woman is solely responsible. Her body, her choice.

If it's her decision, then should a man who makes it clear he wants nothing to do with it be forced to pay for the child for the next 18 years?

A child is entitled to support from both parents.

So you oppose single mothers and adoption?

Are we supposed to be in the business of encouraging violence and intimidation against new moms?

Yes, because a man who can walk away is totally going to intimidate and be violent towards a woman more than a man who has half his check taken because of 'that ****' for 18 years

 

[JBeukema]

I love how a woman can go on Maury 6 times with 37 men and demand one of the guys who was part of a train at a party one night give her money for the next 18 years...

Go, neofeminism...

So it is okay for a group of men to gang bang, but the chick who pulls a train is trash? You have some severe gender bias issues, JB. How can one act at least two people must commit only tar the female as a POS?

You're an idiot.

She chose to get gangbanged at a party. She can choose to rear the child by herself or have an abortion.

Her choice, her responsibility.

You need to speak to some real feminists. Your 3rd/4th wave feminazi bullshit won't fly here.

 

[JBeukema]

because they don't bear the repercussions of carrying the pregnancy to term.

you have every right to make whatever determination for yourself that you think is appropriate.

you have no right to make such determinations for anyone else. and i always find it really funny when the people who claim to want 'small government' want to legislate relationships between people. if a woman's relationship with the person who got her pregnant is a good one, she will take his opinion into consideration. if it isn't, she won't.

and someone has to have final say. it should be the person whose body it is.

or do you think a man should have veto power?

What about the "body" that is being mutilated or otherwise destroyed? How freaking unfair is that?

You can wax poetic all you like PixieStix, but the plain medical fact is, a zygote is not a person.

Fail. That is philosophy, not biology.

Why else do you think the government does not apply the laws regarding safe burial or cremation of a corpse to the medical waste products of an abortion?

Blacks weren't people once, either.

Is there nothing higher than the law of the State?

 

[eagleseven]

Now I know why I don't watch Maury...or 'trains.'

 

[JBeukema]

If pirck men as you so rightly put it don't want to pay for a baby for 18 years then its up to THEM to control their sperm.

If a woman doesn't want to be responsible, it's on her to take measures to prevent having a child. She has every option.

If they make a woman pregnant and she keeps it ,tough shit for them its their responsibility.

Boohoo. The little sluts on Maury need to own up to their own shit. It was her choice to have sex outside of marriage or a serious relationship. it was her choice to not make sure she was with a good man before she got knocked up. She has 3 months to 'get rid of it'. She has several weeks after birth to drop the child off at a Safe Place and plenty of time after that to opt for adoption.

She needs to own up to her own shit and stop acting like a helpless little girl. if she's old enough to have sex, she's old enough to figure out what to do when she's pregnant and how to care for her baby or find someone who will.

Again in my opinion once men give a woman sperm, his options are gone in any and all decisions regarding a woman's body after that.

In other words, once he fucks the town slut she gets to yell 'HAHAHA I GOT YOU NOW!!!'

You're a disgrace and you spit on everything to original feminists stood for.

 

[JBeukema]

I am sorry Si, this is where I disagree with you. Why is it that they are both responsible for the conception but not the rest??? Really. The babie's body is not her body, she is just a vessel. Not a dictator

In your opinion yes, and i understand that. In my opinion women are not captive vessels. They are not incubators on demand. If a woman does not want to carry a baby she doesn't have to.

As i have said before in other threads: Have the thimble full of cells Cesarean Sectioned out and give them to whom ever wants them.

Captive vessels? Thimble full of cells cesarean sectioned out?

You don't need a c-section to abort an oocyte or a zygote...

 

[JBeukema]

they they have ALL the control to keep their sperm to themselves and NOT put themselves in such a position.

Yes, because she has no control to prevent or end a pregnancy and there's no such thing as adoption ;rolleyes:

It takes two to make a baby. If that baby comes to term then both must pay for its support.

Yet one of them can choose to not let the baby come to term and avoid all responsibility- or get out of responsibility after the child is born.

POWER: the one desire of the modern feminazi

Responsibility and equality: the aims of true feminsism

You give yourself away when you speak of only one having any rights...

 

[JBeukema]

I thought you had a childhood friend who committed suicide because of not being able to face being pregnant.

Now you joke about kittens.

When did you decide you are pro-abortion, was it before you were born or after. That is the real test, can you say your life is not worth living, if your life is worth living its true to say any other human born feels the same.

If anyone is able to make a decision before they are born, I'd like to meet that person.

Hind sight is 20/20. I think most of us would have said, "hey heck yeah, I want to live, Thanks Mom"

What about those who try to hang themselves with the umbilical cord on the way out?

Exception to the rule?

 

[JBeukema]

What is about women you see as so stunningly defective that IYO they "need" men and the government to dictate fundamental life choices to them?

Why does she need man to pay for her decision to have a baby?

I want you to meet a real feminist some day.

 

[JBeukema]

dilloduck wrote:

Because the woman DOES get to choose. Why do you continue to ignore the fact that we are talking about women who consented to sex, not raped ?

Why is the woman's right to choose objectionable? She gets to choose all the other things her body does, just as any grown man does. I'm mystified at this anger towards women merely because their reproductive system allows them options men do not have.

That's more or less the biology of the species. Go hate on God and pray we develop asexual reproduction; it would make just as much damned sense.

The biology of the species is also that a woman bears the responsibility if she has a baby...


and what is it with you and religion?

 

[JBeukema]

So you support the idea that if one has a uterus they get more choices ?

Biology is destiny in this regard, dilloduck.

Biology would dictate the bitch is screwed...


Will you make up you mind, please?

 

[JBeukema]

Interesting that you defend the morals of men, Si.

Since when are there morals of men and morals of women?

You're the one who sounds like the old religions, what with only one sex having any rights and all...

Why are you not standing up for sexually active women as you are for sexually active men?

We are. We're recognizing that as grown women they have both rights and responsibilities and aren't poor little creatures in need of men to take care of them.

It's called feminism, little girl. Ask a real woman about it someday.

 

[Si modo]

....

POWER: the one desire of the modern feminazi

Responsibility and equality: the aims of true feminsism

....

Someone who gets it.

 

[JBeukema]

Yes pix. vessel was your choice of words for a woman. If a woman is forced to give birth then that is a captive vessel. As far as i am concerned life does not start until it is birthed. Cesarean section is NOT a violent abortion, it is a form of birth. If men are whining about wanting a child, fine, have the cells removed and given to the father to gestate.

Do you understand that men can't gestate them? Sort of an empty offer don't you think ?

Of course i understand that. So the sole persons decision to carry or not, is the woman's. End of story.

Then the sole responsibility for the baby's birth, and therefore the sole responsibility for the baby...

 

[Madeline]

I am sympathetic to neither. Both are responsible for the situation. Once a man lets go of his sperm and gives it to a woman, he has no more say as to what that woman does with her body.

Support of the baby is a separate issue. If the man is flat telling the woman within the first month he does not want the baby and she chooses to carry that baby, then she should better be damn well able to take care of it all on her own. She knows up front that the father does not want to pay for his share in the responsibility of the baby. That being said, it does not excuse the father from his finical responsibility.

I disagree, for a whole raft of reasons. Here's just one.....

Accused killer of attorney Margaret Allen goes on trial | cincinnati.com | Cincinnati.Com

This murder victim was a friend of one of my law school classmates. What they think tipped her boyfriend into murdering her was learning she was pregnant and did not intend to have the baby. BTW, he is also charged with murdering the man who had helped him after the fact when he killed the woman.

You tell men they can dictate to women whether to have a baby and that is exactly the sort of crime that will occur more often.

So what is it that you are disagreeing with M?

I am saying that men have no right to tell women what to do with their bodies.

O, *duh*. In that case we agree completely.

 

[JBeukema]

Biology 101: you fail it

 

[Madeline]

An separate organism is not part of her body...

This is a philosphical argument, JB, not a medical fact.

Fail. It's basic biology. Did you never take any science classes at all?

It is patently clear the zygote is not "separate" from the woman, JB.