CDZ Abortion: Moral or Immoral

[TNHarley]

Using standard definitions, socially 'moral' in the legal sense - personally immoral. It is a barbaric medical procedure that dehumanizes the 'victim', much as slavery did, a tactic used by most of the worlds cruelest tyrants to justify mass murder and genocide.

Pregnancy - easiest of all STD's to avoid.

What is barbaric is controlling our reproduction, what we allow to happen with our bodies. No one is saying you HAVE TO terminate an unwanted pregnancy if you don't believe in it. However, no one should be able to tell a woman that she MUST reproduce. The current relaxing of employers' duty to provide birth control coverage and the targeted attacks against Planned Parenthood are a double attack on women's right to choose.
Women know if they are ready, willing and able to commit to the enormous responsibility of being a parent. Each woman needs to be free to choose.

Well, keep your legs closed. Most protection works, but let's be honest, most abortions are from careless sex

I completely agree with the last part. I am obviously VERY "pro-choice" but using abortion for "birth control" irks me. But i still wouldnt tell someone they cant benefit from science because they are irresponsible butt heads. Not to mention, they probably wont make good parents anyways.

 

[Bonzi]

But not everyone in society feels it is moral. Does law equal societal morals?

It does...unless changed, modified. That's what a societies moral code is, the law. Even when the sides are as clearly divided as they are. It is the age old question - because the right to do something exists, is it right to do that thing? Which is all that we are left with when what is legal is considered barbaric...that, and taking a stand. Similar situation with the death penalty. Also justifiable by proponents, also considered barbaric by opponents.

So, it would be immoral to support to allowance of illegal immigrants to come and stay here by that logic, correct?

 

[Windparadox]

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I was faced with the abortion question when I was a young teen. I would not get one. However, I will not stand in the way of a female that does.

 

[Jimmy_Chitwood]

What's you position, and why?

Did I get her pregnant?

Maybe we need a civil and SERIOUS debate forum. Silly boys!

Do I really like her?

 

[SeaGal]

As far as abortion? Well, my belief is that a baby isn't really "alive" until it draws it's first breath. In the Bible, it states that Adam and Eve weren't really alive until God breathed the breath of Life into them, so, I'll take God's example for when a human is "alive".

And..............when you stop breathing, you no longer are alive.

What do you say to this example from God...his words to Jeremiah?

Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
before you were born I set you apart;
I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”

And...............telling people to simply not have sex is a non starter. Why? Because reproduction is a basic survival response, and to go against that is to go against human nature.

Most of our laws 'go against human nature', that's why we need them. Letting young people know that no birth control is 100% effective (save abstinence or sterilization), is arming them with information they need to have to make their choices. That is not advocating for or against.

But if you were responding to my comment - I didn't tell anyone to abstain - merely stated that unwanted pregnancy is easily avoided today.

 

[ABikerSailor]

As far as abortion? Well, my belief is that a baby isn't really "alive" until it draws it's first breath. In the Bible, it states that Adam and Eve weren't really alive until God breathed the breath of Life into them, so, I'll take God's example for when a human is "alive".

And..............when you stop breathing, you no longer are alive.

What do you say to this example from God...his words to Jeremiah?

Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
before you were born I set you apart;
I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”

And...............telling people to simply not have sex is a non starter. Why? Because reproduction is a basic survival response, and to go against that is to go against human nature.

Most of our laws 'go against human nature', that's why we need them. Letting young people know that no birth control is 100% effective (save abstinence or sterilization), is arming them with information they need to have to make their choices. That is not advocating for or against.

But if you were responding to my comment - I didn't tell anyone to abstain - merely stated that unwanted pregnancy is easily avoided today.

OF COURSE God told Jeremiah that He knew him before he was born. He even said that he knew him before he was formed in the womb, which is a direct reference that souls come from God.

And, exactly WHAT law is it that stops people from having sex? I don't know of any, and telling people to simply abstain is pure rubbish, because of basic human instinct.

 

[SeaGal]

And, exactly WHAT law is it that stops people from having sex? I don't know of any, and telling people to simply abstain is pure rubbish, because of basic human instinct.

Well some kinds of sex are against the law - but again, don't attribute to me words not said. I can type the words for ya, but I can't comprehend them for ya.

 

[PredFan]

Abortion is not subjective.

The way you look at is. The process isnt. Duh lol

Ok fine but the way someone looks at it doesn't change facts and the facts mean there is no argument.

what facts?

The fact that abortion kills a human child.

What facts are there that say whether a fetus is a human?
It doesnt meet the criteria for a living organism or human.

Science says so. The fact that if left alone, a human being is born.

 

[SeaGal]

So, it would be immoral to support to allowance of illegal immigrants to come and stay here by that logic, correct?

What?

 

[TNHarley]

The way you look at is. The process isnt. Duh lol

Ok fine but the way someone looks at it doesn't change facts and the facts mean there is no argument.

what facts?

The fact that abortion kills a human child.

What facts are there that say whether a fetus is a human?
It doesnt meet the criteria for a living organism or human.

Science says so. The fact that if left alone, a human being is born.

science says what? Pretty sure science says its both ways because its SUBJECTIVE. They can NOT agree on whether a fetus is a human "life" or not. Possibly because it doesnt meet criteria for life.

 

[Chuz Life]

I have to vote "other" because, while I understand that there is a morality component to any law or issue. . . My views about the Constitutionality of abortion have nothing to do with right or wrong (morality) type lined of reasoning.

The morality about whether it is right or wrong to deny children their rights or personhood has been established for eons. As has the morality aspects to our laws against murder, assault and molestation. I see no need to debate the morality beyond that.

I prefer to deal with the objective and secular lines of reason because that (imho) should be the most direct path towards resolving the issues Constitutionally.

 

[PredFan]

Ok fine but the way someone looks at it doesn't change facts and the facts mean there is no argument.

what facts?

The fact that abortion kills a human child.

What facts are there that say whether a fetus is a human?
It doesnt meet the criteria for a living organism or human.

Science says so. The fact that if left alone, a human being is born.

science says what? Pretty sure science says its both ways because its SUBJECTIVE. They can NOT agree on whether a fetus is a human "life" or not. Possibly because it doesnt meet criteria for life.

Garbage. There isn't one single biologist or scientist who is involved in the human body in any way who will deny that if left alone, a human fetus will become a human being. Not one. They will confirm positively that a human fetus has human DNA. The fact that it cannot live outside the mother for at least 28 weeks is irrelevant.

 

[TNHarley]

what facts?

The fact that abortion kills a human child.

What facts are there that say whether a fetus is a human?
It doesnt meet the criteria for a living organism or human.

Science says so. The fact that if left alone, a human being is born.

science says what? Pretty sure science says its both ways because its SUBJECTIVE. They can NOT agree on whether a fetus is a human "life" or not. Possibly because it doesnt meet criteria for life.

Garbage. There isn't one single biologist or scientist who is involved in the human body in any way who will deny that if left alone, a human fetus will become a human being. Not one. They will confirm positively that a human fetus has human DNA. The fact that it cannot live outside the mother for at least 28 weeks is irrelevant.

of course it will become a human being. I was referring to basic biology... I was referring to what i said.

It doesnt meet the criteria for a living organism or human

 

[Chuz Life]

what facts?

The fact that abortion kills a human child.

What facts are there that say whether a fetus is a human?
It doesnt meet the criteria for a living organism or human.

Science says so. The fact that if left alone, a human being is born.

science says what? Pretty sure science says its both ways because its SUBJECTIVE. They can NOT agree on whether a fetus is a human "life" or not. Possibly because it doesnt meet criteria for life.

Garbage. There isn't one single biologist or scientist who is involved in the human body in any way who will deny that if left alone, a human fetus will become a human being. Not one. They will confirm positively that a human fetus has human DNA. The fact that it cannot live outside the mother for at least 28 weeks is irrelevant.

I have to disagree with you just a little when you say that a child in the fetal stage of their life (if left alone) "will become" a human being.

They already ARE one and even our fetal Homicide laws already define and recognize them as such.

 

[Chuz Life]

The fact that abortion kills a human child.

What facts are there that say whether a fetus is a human?
It doesnt meet the criteria for a living organism or human.

Science says so. The fact that if left alone, a human being is born.

science says what? Pretty sure science says its both ways because its SUBJECTIVE. They can NOT agree on whether a fetus is a human "life" or not. Possibly because it doesnt meet criteria for life.

Garbage. There isn't one single biologist or scientist who is involved in the human body in any way who will deny that if left alone, a human fetus will become a human being. Not one. They will confirm positively that a human fetus has human DNA. The fact that it cannot live outside the mother for at least 28 weeks is irrelevant.

of course it will become a human being. I was referring to basic biology... I was referring to what i said.

It doesnt meet the criteria for a living organism or human

You should selling that denial BULLSHIT to any of those already in prison for murder for illegally killing a child in the womb.

They would gladly pay you top dollar.

 

[JoeMoma]

Ok fine but the way someone looks at it doesn't change facts and the facts mean there is no argument.

what facts?

The fact that abortion kills a human child.

What facts are there that say whether a fetus is a human?
It doesnt meet the criteria for a living organism or human.

Science says so. The fact that if left alone, a human being is born.

science says what? Pretty sure science says its both ways because its SUBJECTIVE. They can NOT agree on whether a fetus is a human "life" or not. Possibly because it doesnt meet criteria for life.

Lots of people in the abortion debate are ignorant of basic biology terminology and science. Of course a fetus meets the criteria of life. The fetal stage is simply one stage of many for the human life cycle.

 

[Ace Nova]

The one thing that boggles my mind about abortion laws is that if a pregnant woman is murdered and both she and the unborn baby dies, the person that commits the murder can be charged with two homicides. Very progressive states(like California) have found people guilty of double homicides in cases like this.

How can a state like California insist that it's just a fetus in cases of abortion but state that it's an "unborn baby" in cases of homicide??

 

[Votto]

Ok fine but the way someone looks at it doesn't change facts and the facts mean there is no argument.

what facts?

The fact that abortion kills a human child.

What facts are there that say whether a fetus is a human?
It doesnt meet the criteria for a living organism or human.

Science says so. The fact that if left alone, a human being is born.

science says what? Pretty sure science says its both ways because its SUBJECTIVE. They can NOT agree on whether a fetus is a human "life" or not. Possibly because it doesnt meet criteria for life.

Science can't even come to a consensus on what the definition of life is. Science also believes that life just spontaneously appeared from nonlife, something that can't be observed or duplicated, yet they claim it's science.

 

[TNHarley]

What facts are there that say whether a fetus is a human?
It doesnt meet the criteria for a living organism or human.

Science says so. The fact that if left alone, a human being is born.

science says what? Pretty sure science says its both ways because its SUBJECTIVE. They can NOT agree on whether a fetus is a human "life" or not. Possibly because it doesnt meet criteria for life.

Garbage. There isn't one single biologist or scientist who is involved in the human body in any way who will deny that if left alone, a human fetus will become a human being. Not one. They will confirm positively that a human fetus has human DNA. The fact that it cannot live outside the mother for at least 28 weeks is irrelevant.

of course it will become a human being. I was referring to basic biology... I was referring to what i said.

It doesnt meet the criteria for a living organism or human

You should selling that denial BULLSHIT to any of those already in prison for murder for illegally killing a child in the womb.

They would gladly pay you top dollar.

Its not bullshit. Its fact. Look at the definitions of those terms.
Someone made that argument last week. It is a good one. BUT that person took the freedom of choice from the mother.
It also has to happen while committing a small list of other crimes IIRC.
Shouldnt abortion be left to the states anyways?

 

[TNHarley]

what facts?

The fact that abortion kills a human child.

What facts are there that say whether a fetus is a human?
It doesnt meet the criteria for a living organism or human.

Science says so. The fact that if left alone, a human being is born.

science says what? Pretty sure science says its both ways because its SUBJECTIVE. They can NOT agree on whether a fetus is a human "life" or not. Possibly because it doesnt meet criteria for life.

Science can't even come to a consensus on what the definition of life is. Science also believes that life just spontaneously appeared from nonlife, something that can't be observed or duplicated, yet they claim it's science.

Fair enough