A Tea Party Wants Mandatory Christmas Carols In Public Schools

[Modbert]

You know our country is F-ed in the head when this is an actual topic of discussion .

It's the Christmas spirit.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

You know our country is F-ed in the head when this is an actual topic of discussion .

It's the Christmas spirit.

indeed

Its christmas lets fight

 

[Coyote]

can you show me the law that allows the students or the community, rather than the admin, the opportunity sing christmas carols at school?

I asked a simple question - is it that hard to find a law prohibiting the singing of carols? That would be the first step.



I have an issue with it? That's news to me....

yes, just one post shows you have an issue:

In fact that kind of madate - worded the way it is, does smack of unwarrented religious intrusion into Ceasar's realm even with the "opt out" clause. There are enough problems with the school systems with out adding extraneous crap which is the same degree of silliness as those fussing of mention of God on coinage.

Nope. If I had an issue with singing about a national holiday I would be out stomping for legislation barring said singing since I'm having a problem finding any such legislation...

your question, as i stated earlier, has nothing to do with the fact that the community, nor the students can choose the opportunity if the admin denies them the opportunity. the answer to your question is right in front of you, the law states that the admin can deny them that opportunity.....

The article only says this: Schools currently are allowed to offer Christmas music as long as it is used for academic purposes rather than devotional purposes and isn't used to promote a particular religious belief.

What are you talking about?

 

[AllieBaba]

So much for that teabagger being for freedom.

Freedom means the FREEDOM to express yourself, you pea brained nitwit.

SUPPRESSION is refusing people the right to do so.

So how is it elminating freedom to allow children the opportunity to sing Christmas carols?

Hey scumbag keep your stupid superstitions out of the public schools, you want to sing to your god do so in your church you steaming pile of dog shit.

Lol. I live in America, you worthless fuck. I can do whatever the fuck I want as long as it's legal, and so can my kids.
So, say, you find the color black offensive. Would it be okay for you to elminate blacks from the schools as well?

 

[ihopehefails]

The most ironic thing is that there is nowhere in any state constitution that forbids the use of state dollars for christmas trees or christmas carol songs in school. I would like for someone on the left to show where, in the state that the school resides in, that it says that that government can't fund christmas carols in school. I know that it is forbidden on the federal level becuase it is not included in the 17 powers but that is federal dollars (neither is funding for any school BTW) but how is it forbidden for a state to spend dollars on christmas carols in public school? You will have to go to the state's constitution to find a reason why the government can't do that.

 

[ihopehefails]

Freedom means the FREEDOM to express yourself, you pea brained nitwit.

SUPPRESSION is refusing people the right to do so.

So how is it elminating freedom to allow children the opportunity to sing Christmas carols?

Hey scumbag keep your stupid superstitions out of the public schools, you want to sing to your god do so in your church you steaming pile of dog shit.

Lol. I live in America, you worthless fuck. I can do whatever the fuck I want as long as it's legal, and so can my kids.
So, say, you find the color black offensive. Would it be okay for you to elminate blacks from the schools as well?

We live under an Obamunist system....

 

[NYcarbineer]

but the schools don't have to offer it...hence the difference

Why should they "have" to? Why should any one particular religion be favored by a mandate?

In fact that kind of madate - worded the way it is, does smack of unwarrented religious intrusion into Ceasar's realm even with the "opt out" clause. There are enough problems with the school systems with out adding extraneous crap which is the same degree of silliness as those fussing of mention of God on coinage.

you're obviously missing the 800 lb gorilla in the room.....we are talking about christmas, a national holiday...what is wrong with singing about a national holiday?

Please read the actual proposition.

 

[Ravi]

are those national holidays ravi?

It doesn't matter. National holidays aren't mandatory to observe.

Congress can make no law, etc. If you mandate exposure to one religion you must mandate exposure to all.

option,, it's all about options as opposed to a few on the left mandating nothing religous is allowed.. people are tired of the left shoving them around. Tea Party.

Ah, the teapartiers want to shove people around. Too bad for them the constitution forbids it on this matter.

Fail.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

It doesn't matter. National holidays aren't mandatory to observe.

Congress can make no law, etc. If you mandate exposure to one religion you must mandate exposure to all.

option,, it's all about options as opposed to a few on the left mandating nothing religous is allowed.. people are tired of the left shoving them around. Tea Party.

Ah, the teapartiers want to shove people around. Too bad for them the constitution forbids it on this matter.

Fail.

Like I said before the majority of tea party people would tar and feather the guy who proposed this because it goes against the very thing we want, a constitutionally and fiscally responsible representation.

Putting this person up as representative of tea party people, which was done by Ariana Huffington's site (the origin of this thread), is a classic straw man.

 

[Yurt]

It doesn't matter. National holidays aren't mandatory to observe.

Congress can make no law, etc. If you mandate exposure to one religion you must mandate exposure to all.

option,, it's all about options as opposed to a few on the left mandating nothing religous is allowed.. people are tired of the left shoving them around. Tea Party.

Ah, the teapartiers want to shove people around. Too bad for them the constitution forbids it on this matter.

Fail.

quite the contrary....you want to shove people around by not giving them the opportunity....

simple really

 

[Ravi]

Man ... I remember singing XMas carols in elementary school and it being fun ... we had a couple of Jewish kids in my grade we got draddles and sang the draddle song ... nobody cared.

I miss the 80's

I still did that when I was in elementary school too.

And it didn't kill ya, right?

I mean, really, the PC'ing of Holiday season sucks, dude.

I agree 100%. Regardless, forcing schools to make sure that school children are exposed to Christmas carols is beyond retarded.

 

[Coyote]

option,, it's all about options as opposed to a few on the left mandating nothing religous is allowed.. people are tired of the left shoving them around. Tea Party.

Ah, the teapartiers want to shove people around. Too bad for them the constitution forbids it on this matter.

Fail.

quite the contrary....you want to shove people around by not giving them the opportunity....

simple really

Found that law yet denying them the opportunity?

 

[Yurt]

Why should they "have" to? Why should any one particular religion be favored by a mandate?

In fact that kind of madate - worded the way it is, does smack of unwarrented religious intrusion into Ceasar's realm even with the "opt out" clause. There are enough problems with the school systems with out adding extraneous crap which is the same degree of silliness as those fussing of mention of God on coinage.

you're obviously missing the 800 lb gorilla in the room.....we are talking about christmas, a national holiday...what is wrong with singing about a national holiday?

Please read the actual proposition.

do you have a point to make?

 

[Yurt]

Ah, the teapartiers want to shove people around. Too bad for them the constitution forbids it on this matter.

Fail.

quite the contrary....you want to shove people around by not giving them the opportunity....

simple really

Found that law yet denying them the opportunity?

this is about the 4th time i've explained to you that your question is a red herring....you have yet to answer me on my question.....what are you afraid of?

the law as it stands DOES deny them the opportunity if the admin denies their requests....how many more times do i need to answer you?

if you are going to continue to deny this reality, there really is no point in your continued participation in this discussion.....

 

[Ravi]

option,, it's all about options as opposed to a few on the left mandating nothing religous is allowed.. people are tired of the left shoving them around. Tea Party.

Ah, the teapartiers want to shove people around. Too bad for them the constitution forbids it on this matter.

Fail.

Like I said before the majority of tea party people would tar and feather the guy who proposed this because it goes against the very thing we want, a constitutionally and fiscally responsible representation.

Putting this person up as representative of tea party people, which was done by Ariana Huffington's site (the origin of this thread), is a classic straw man.

I'd believe you if the evidence of what posters are saying on this very thread didn't prove you wrong.

 

[Yurt]

Ah, the teapartiers want to shove people around. Too bad for them the constitution forbids it on this matter.

Fail.

Like I said before the majority of tea party people would tar and feather the guy who proposed this because it goes against the very thing we want, a constitutionally and fiscally responsible representation.

Putting this person up as representative of tea party people, which was done by Ariana Huffington's site (the origin of this thread), is a classic straw man.

I'd believe you if the evidence of what posters are saying on this very thread didn't prove you wrong.

great....so according to ravi posters on this thread all represent the tea party

 

[Foxfyre]

When I was in school, the ACLU and courts had not yet learned how to utilize the system to prey on the patriotic, religious, and service minded. Once certain segments such as the ACLU learned how lucrative denying free expression could be, there was no end to the indignation that could be drummed up by the presence of a tiny historical cross on a village seal, the Ten Commandments engraved on a piece of art, or school kids singing the beautiful traditional Christmas carols many of which have been around for centuries now.

We--Christian kids, Atheist kids, Jewish kids, Buddhist kids, and probably lots of others--thrilled at the great choruses of Handel's Messiah and people--Christian, Atheist, Jewish, Buddhist etc.--came from miles around to hear us sing them. We learned the great music of Handel, Bach, Mozart, Mendelsohn, and many others to round out our cultural education. We also threw in a few secular numbers and, if there were kids of other than the Christian faith around, traditional melodies from their culture as well.

To the best of my knowledge there was no great uprising for religious fanatics to take over the government, nobody went into ecstatic frenzies, and no little egos were wounded or damaged in the least. But it was a special time and created great memories as the entire community celebrated a historical seasonal festival whether or not they subscribed to that particular religion.

That is what allowing people freedom accomplishes.

Yes it is stupid and abhorrent to fight over Christmas. But it isn't Christmas that is being fought over in most cases. It is our Constitutional right of individual freedom and free expression that we should not allow the courts, the ACLU, or anybody else to take away from us, and that is a principle worth fighting for.

Each community should decide what it wants in the way of Christmas celebration and everybody else should simply butt out.

 

[Coyote]

quite the contrary....you want to shove people around by not giving them the opportunity....

simple really

Found that law yet denying them the opportunity?

this is about the 4th time i've explained to you that your question is a red herring....you have yet to answer me on my question.....what are you afraid of?

You have one group wanting to mandate that schools must offer Christian carols for the Christmas Holiday season. Said offer can be declined but the offer must be made.

Yet, nowhere is that red herring (as you claim) that says anywhere that carols are forbidden.

So - why do we need such a law, particularly coming from a group who themselves demand smaller government intrustion into our lives? Can you explain that?

Will you wage a similar staunch demand that they be be mandated to offer Jewish songs on the Jewish holidays....solstice songs on soltice.....muslim songs on what ever holy days are theirs? Where does it end? How about keeping it simple - you can't forbid it - any of it.

And guess what - that's just the way it is now

the law as it stands DOES deny them the opportunity if the admin denies their requests....how many more times do i need to answer you?

The admin can not legally deny it if it falls within the limits of the law. If they do, then the community has recourse to the courts.

if you are going to continue to deny this reality, there really is no point in your continued participation in this discussion.....

I'm not denying any "reality" - I'm simply asking you to support "your reality".

 

[WillowTree]

When I was in school, the ACLU and courts had not yet learned how to utilize the system to prey on the patriotic, religious, and service minded. Once certain segments such as the ACLU learned how lucrative denying free expression could be, there was no end to the indignation that could be drummed up by the presence of a tiny historical cross on a village seal, the Ten Commandments engraved on a piece of art, or school kids singing the beautiful traditional Christmas carols many of which have been around for centuries now.

We--Christian kids, Atheist kids, Jewish kids, Buddhist kids, and probably lots of others--thrilled at the great choruses of Handel's Messiah and people--Christian, Atheist, Jewish, Buddhist etc.--came from miles around to hear us sing them. We learned the great music of Handel, Bach, Mozart, Mendelsohn, and many others to round out our cultural education. We also threw in a few secular numbers and, if there were kids of other than the Christian faith around, traditional melodies from their culture as well.

To the best of my knowledge there was no great uprising for religious fanatics to take over the government, nobody went into ecstatic frenzies, and no little egos were wounded or damaged in the least. But it was a special time and created great memories as the entire community celebrated a historical seasonal festival whether or not they subscribed to that particular religion.

That is what allowing people freedom accomplishes.

Yes it is stupid and abhorrent to fight over Christmas. But it isn't Christmas that is being fought over in most cases. It is our Constitutional right of individual freedom and free expression that we should not allow the courts, the ACLU, or anybody else to take away from us, and that is a principle worth fighting for.

Each community should decide what it wants in the way of Christmas celebration and everybody else should simply butt out.

exactly, there is absolutely no reason to let the rotten ACLU dictate our lives.. none. people are tired of being shoved around.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Ah, the teapartiers want to shove people around. Too bad for them the constitution forbids it on this matter.

Fail.

Like I said before the majority of tea party people would tar and feather the guy who proposed this because it goes against the very thing we want, a constitutionally and fiscally responsible representation.

Putting this person up as representative of tea party people, which was done by Ariana Huffington's site (the origin of this thread), is a classic straw man.

I'd believe you if the evidence of what posters are saying on this very thread didn't prove you wrong.

see so doing religious stuff in school definately doesn't leave a lasting impression, let alone indoctrinate someone .

I'm not saying it does. But there is no reason to make it mandatory. If anyone who is small Government should agree. Leave it up to the individual schools. If enough parents complain, I'm sure it will be changed.

However, making a law is ridiculous.

my little at the end was to denote me being a wise ass

I didn't think you were saying it does.

On this topic you and I agree way more than we disagree, i dont think it should be mandatory that there are or mandatory that there are not christamas or other holiday carols sung in schools. That should be up to the PTA/School faculty IMO.

Indeed making a law mandating christmas carols is equally as ludicris as making a law banning them.

You know our country is F-ed in the head when this is an actual topic of discussion.

What was that you were saying ravi?