A Reality Check on Race and IQ

[fncceo]

Taboo topic. Most scientist are afraid to research genetic differences between the races (divergent populations) because to do so is professional suicide. We are simply to believe that other the superficial, all attributes from race to race are equal.

The reason it's professional suicide is that this subject has been exhausted to death and totally discredited. Phrenology, eugenics, racial purity, they've had volumes written on them and they don't make a legitimate scientific argument. That's not even taking into account the massive amount of human suffering caused by people using these types of theories to justify murder and cruelty.

Racial eugenics isn't a legitimate line of scientific study any more than Holocaust denial is a legitimate historical subject. It is simply a political agenda dressing itself up in a lab coat to look legitimate.

 

[JoeMoma]

Taboo topic. Most scientist are afraid to research genetic differences between the races (divergent populations) because to do so is professional suicide. We are simply to believe that other the superficial, all attributes from race to race are equal.

The reason it's professional suicide is that this subject has been exhausted to death and totally discredited. Phrenology, eugenics, racial purity, they've had volumes written on them and they don't make a legitimate scientific argument. That's not even taking into account the massive amount of human suffering caused by people using these types of theories to justify murder and cruelty.

Racial eugenics isn't a legitimate line of scientific study any more than Holocaust denial is a legitimate historical subject. It is simply a political agenda dressing itself up in a lab coat to look legitimate.

Not the same subject.
Statistical studies to determine whether an attribute is statistically the same or different between two populations has no political agenda in and of itself. There are already accepted differences that have been found between the races. Occurrence rates of high blood pressure, sickle cell anemia, and lactose intolerance are just a few examples.
That being said, results can be used for good or evil.

 

[Montrovant]

Taboo topic. Most scientist are afraid to research genetic differences between the races (divergent populations) because to do so is professional suicide. We are simply to believe that other the superficial, all attributes from race to race are equal.

The reason it's professional suicide is that this subject has been exhausted to death and totally discredited. Phrenology, eugenics, racial purity, they've had volumes written on them and they don't make a legitimate scientific argument. That's not even taking into account the massive amount of human suffering caused by people using these types of theories to justify murder and cruelty.

Racial eugenics isn't a legitimate line of scientific study any more than Holocaust denial is a legitimate historical subject. It is simply a political agenda dressing itself up in a lab coat to look legitimate.

Not the same subject.
Statistical studies to determine whether an attribute is statistically the same or different between two populations has no political agenda in and of itself. There are already accepted differences that have been found between the races. Occurrence rates of high blood pressure, sickle cell anemia, and lactose intolerance are just a few examples.
That being said, results can be used for good or evil.

It does go back to the question of just what IQ tests measure, though. If there are statistical differences in IQ tests among different races, is that a measure of intelligence? Is it only a measure of how well different races perform on IQ tests?

Besides, statistical studies and genetic differences are not exactly the same things.

 

[fncceo]

Taboo topic. Most scientist are afraid to research genetic differences between the races (divergent populations) because to do so is professional suicide. We are simply to believe that other the superficial, all attributes from race to race are equal.

The reason it's professional suicide is that this subject has been exhausted to death and totally discredited. Phrenology, eugenics, racial purity, they've had volumes written on them and they don't make a legitimate scientific argument. That's not even taking into account the massive amount of human suffering caused by people using these types of theories to justify murder and cruelty.

Racial eugenics isn't a legitimate line of scientific study any more than Holocaust denial is a legitimate historical subject. It is simply a political agenda dressing itself up in a lab coat to look legitimate.

Not the same subject.
Statistical studies to determine whether an attribute is statistically the same or different between two populations has no political agenda in and of itself. There are already accepted differences that have been found between the races. Occurrence rates of high blood pressure, sickle cell anemia, and lactose intolerance are just a few examples.
That being said, results can be used for good or evil.

Statistical studies can use correlation to imply causation where none exists.

Red cars receive speeding tickets more often than gray cars ... is that proof that people who drive red cars speed more often than those who drive gray cars?

 

[jillian]

Racism is the outward manifestation of the evolutionary imperative to be hostile toward the unknown. Various attempts have been made over the last century to attempt to find a scientific link between DNA and social success and all have failed miserably.

The abuse of information in the past or present doesn't preclude differences in human races.
This is just a smear not going to the truth of the matter.

Phrenology, typology, eugenics, and other theories have all been put forward to link social evolution and intelligence with race and all have been responsible for untold human suffering.

Again, We're going for the truth of the matter, not the abuse of it.

There is a link between DNA and intelligence, but it has been demonstrated that it is quite separate from the genetic coding that creates the outward characteristics of race. Superior intelligence and inferior intelligence are represented in every race which could not be the case if there were a genetic connection between race and intelligence.

One of the few genes so far linked to intelligence is head size/cranial volume.
Craniometry has not been discredited (unlike phrenology).

And guess what, NE Asians, despite the smaller overall body size, have the largest cranial volume.

Intelligence testing used widely in research depends heavily on familiarly with the social constructs. IQ testing isn't, as is widely believed, an accurate indication of cognitive ability. A gorilla with sufficient social indoctrination can score as high as 95 on a standard IQ test, putting him on par with an average human.

All False, and completely Ridiculous/Outrageous BS
IQ is the best single measurement of school, job, and life success.

Many IQ tests are just visual.
IQ rearchers are not Nazis and really care about the accuracy of results.. and therefore take measures to screen out socio-economic and other bias factors.
No, sub-Saharans are not asked who the Governor of Rhode Island is.

Most research points to socio-economic factors, not racial ones, as the best indicators of potential intelligence and social success.

No it doesn't.
Like the rest of your post, this is a 100% BaseLess claim.

Why did Japan (106), a resourceless seismic Rock, Rise to high civilization, then lost half it's male population during WWII, and Japanese Americans Interned and lost everything, Infinitely more successful than resource-rich ie, Congo.

Sub-Sahara is an Ungovernable rabble.. as only their IQs (70) would predict.
(Hybrid) American 'Blacks' (85) also have huge problems.

Pre-colonially, when Marco Polo came upon China (106), he found Silk, Ceramics, Gunpowder, a Civil Service system, Astronomical records..
While sub-Saharans lived in 1900 largely the way they did 50,000 years ago..
Hunter-Gatherers in Huts.
No wheel, no written language before contact.

You have socio-economic and IQ backwards.
It's IQ that created the socio-economic success.


EDIT:
Montrovant's immediately above post is full of nonsense, False claims, and baseLess opinion.
No facts.
If you can't handle 2 hours I don't blame you.
Just watch 10 minutes.
Though it would be worth two hours to learn a truth of life/the planet rather than repeating PC apologetics/falsehoods for the rest of yours.
`

Gottfredaon received almost $300,000 in grants from a white supremacist organization.

 

[JoeMoma]

Taboo topic. Most scientist are afraid to research genetic differences between the races (divergent populations) because to do so is professional suicide. We are simply to believe that other the superficial, all attributes from race to race are equal.

The reason it's professional suicide is that this subject has been exhausted to death and totally discredited. Phrenology, eugenics, racial purity, they've had volumes written on them and they don't make a legitimate scientific argument. That's not even taking into account the massive amount of human suffering caused by people using these types of theories to justify murder and cruelty.

Racial eugenics isn't a legitimate line of scientific study any more than Holocaust denial is a legitimate historical subject. It is simply a political agenda dressing itself up in a lab coat to look legitimate.

Not the same subject.
Statistical studies to determine whether an attribute is statistically the same or different between two populations has no political agenda in and of itself. There are already accepted differences that have been found between the races. Occurrence rates of high blood pressure, sickle cell anemia, and lactose intolerance are just a few examples.
That being said, results can be used for good or evil.

Statistical studies can use correlation to imply causation where none exists.

Red cars receive speeding tickets more often than gray cars ... is that proof that people who drive red cars speed more often than those who drive gray cars?

Yes, the results can be abused, and often is. Lots of people fail miserably understanding that correlation is not aways causation.

 

[abu afak]

The reason it's professional suicide is that this subject has been exhausted to death and totally discredited. Phrenology, eugenics, racial purity, they've had volumes written on them and they don't make a legitimate scientific argument. That's not even taking into account the massive amount of human suffering caused by people using these types of theories to justify murder and cruelty.

Racial eugenics isn't a legitimate line of scientific study any more than Holocaust denial is a legitimate historical subject. It is simply a political agenda dressing itself up in a lab coat to look legitimate.

The reason it's professional suicide (but not quite) is it's a devastating TRUTH..and the most taboo subject there is. But again, only because that Gun is LOADED and everyone knows it.

ALL IQ testing for 100 Years Worldwide is the same with the same differential/hierarchy.

And is a well known FACT among researchers on IQ psychologists etc.
The 1996 American Psychological Association on the ACKNOWKLEDGED DIFFERENCE THAT CANNOT Be account for by Socio-economic factors Nor test bias.

• 
  The differential between the mean intelligence test scores of Blacks and Whites (about one standard deviation..) does not result from any obvious biases in test construction and administration, nor does it simply reflect differences in socio-economic status.​
  Explanations based on factors of caste and culture may be appropriate, but so far have little direct empirical support. There is certainly no such support for a genetic interpretation. At present, no one knows what causes this differential.​

I might add it's CONFIRMED every year a Million times or more by the 88% Correlated SAT differential, which... SURPRISE!... is about the same and not shrinking.etc.
`

 

[abu afak]

Nor has Finnochio or anyone else adressed my pointing out of the state of the respective cultures, even before Colonization.
It CONFIRMS what IQ tests say.

No one answered my PARAGRAPHS on the topic on pg 1

That's a Real World IQ Test.. a "Reality Check".
Do the country and world Jibe with IQ differential?
YES.

`

 

[fncceo]

The reason it's professional suicide is that this subject has been exhausted to death and totally discredited. Phrenology, eugenics, racial purity, they've had volumes written on them and they don't make a legitimate scientific argument. That's not even taking into account the massive amount of human suffering caused by people using these types of theories to justify murder and cruelty.

Racial eugenics isn't a legitimate line of scientific study any more than Holocaust denial is a legitimate historical subject. It is simply a political agenda dressing itself up in a lab coat to look legitimate.

The reason it's professional suicide (but not quite) is it's a devastating TRUTH..and the most taboo subject there is. but again, only becaiuse that gon is Loaded and everyone knows ut.

ALL IQ testing for 100 Years Worldwide is the same with the same differential/hierarchy.

And is a well known FACT among researchers on IQ psychologists etc.
The American Psychological Association on the ACKNOWKLEDGED DIFFERENCE THAT CANNOT Be account for by Socio-economic factors Nor test bias.

1. The differential between the mean intelligence test scores of Blacks and Whites (about one standard deviation..) does not result from any obvious biases in test construction and administration, nor does it simply reflect differences in socio-economic status. Explanations based on factors of caste and culture may be appropriate, but so far have little direct empirical support. There is certainly no such support for a genetic interpretation. At present, no one knows what causes this differential.

I might add it's CONFIRMED every year a Million times or more by the 88% Correlated SAT differential, which... SURPRISE is about the same and not shrinking.etc.
`

Cite that quote.

 

[abu afak]

Cite that quote.

#6 here.
Human Intelligence: The APA 1996 Intelligence Task Force Report

There's some apologetics, but THAT is the gist.
And the Differential is the SAME as it was then/20 years ago.

Now YOU Cite any of the alleged studies YOU claimed you STUPID LYING POS.

You also said the idea was "Discredited".. you ******* Fool.
Go hide under a Rock you Filthy LIAR.

You are too BLINDINGLY IGNORANT, Brain Damaged, and DISHONEST to even be debating.

You just pull shit from your ass you like the sound of.

`

 

[JoeMoma]

The period of isolated populations that allowed divergent races to evolve over hundreds of thousands of years is over. Travel is much more available now. We are just beginning a period in which the populations which once were mostly isolated will converge and become genetically
blended. A thousand years from now, both a fair skinned redhead and a very dark black person will be rare. I may be wrong, but that's my prediction if the human species survives that long.

 

[abu afak]

="abu afak, post: 20432381, member: 3073"]No, not socio-economic
In answer to several empty PC objectors
Race differences in average IQ are largely genetic
http://www.news-medical.net/news/200...y-genetic.aspx

...Race differences show up by 3 years of age, even AFTER matching on maternal education and other variables," said Rushton.
"Therefore they CANNOT be due to poor education since this has not yet begun to exert an effect. That's why Jensen and I looked at the genetic hypothesis in detail. We examined 10 categories of evidence."

1. The Worldwide Pattern of IQ Scores. East Asians average higher on IQ tests than Whites, both in the U. S. and in Asia, even though IQ tests were developed for use in the Euro-American culture.
Around the world, the average IQ for East Asians centers around 106; for Whites, about 100; and for Blacks about 85 in the U.S. and 70 in sub-Saharan Africa.

4. Brain Size Differences. Studies using magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) find a correlation of brain size with IQ of about 0.40. Larger brains contain more neurons and synapses and process information faster. Race differences in brain size are present at birth. By adulthood, East Asians average 1 cubic inch more cranial capacity than Whites who average 5 cubic inches more than Blacks.

5. Trans-Racial Adoption Studies. Race differences in IQ Remain following adoption by White middle class parents. East Asians grow to average higher IQs than Whites while Blacks score lower. The Minnesota Trans-Racial Adoption Study followed children to age 17 and found race differences were even greater than at age 7: White children, 106; Mixed-Race children, 99; and Black children, 89.

10. Do Culture-Only Theories Explain the Data? Culture-only theories do not explain the highly consistent pattern of race differences in IQ, especially the East Asian data. No interventions such as ending segregation, introducing school busing, or "Head Start" programs have reduced the gaps as culture-only theory would predict.

[...6 More at link...]​

A peer-reviewed journal?

"...The lead article in the June 2005 issue of Psychology, Public Policy and Law, a journal of the American Psychological Association, examined 10 categories of research evidence from around the world to contrast "a hereditarian model (50% genetic-50% cultural) and a culture-only model (0% genetic-100% cultural)."

The paper, "Thirty Years of Research on Race Differences in Cognitive Ability," by J. Philippe Rushton of the University of Western Ontario and Arthur R. Jensen of the University of California at Berkeley, appeared with a positive commentary by Linda Gottfredson of the University of Delaware, three critical ones (by Robert Sternberg of Yale University, Richard Nisbett of the University of Michigan, and Lisa Suzuki & Joshua Aronson of New York University), and the authors' reply..."

`​

 

[Confounding]

you ******* Fool.
Filthy LIAR.

You are too BLINDINGLY IGNORANT, Brain Damaged, and DISHONEST to even be debating.

You just pull shit from your ass you like the sound of.

`

Dude, do you realize how difficult you make it to have a decent discussion with you? When is the last time you had a disagreement where you didn't call somebody a fucking fool or a filthy liar?

 

[abu afak]

Dude, do you realize how difficult you make it to have a decent discussion with you? When is the last time you had a disagreement where you didn't call somebody a fucking fool or a filthy liar?

The guy is Lying/Bullshitting in Every post

He just makes stuff up.. while I have put alot of time in my posts and this subject for years.

I'm entitled to treat him with the disdain he deserves for just BSing my long hard efforts.

I might add, UNLIKE you, I don't just say "2+2=4", I post lots of EVIDENCE and have spent Years learning the subject matter.

Now go **** yourself or post ON TOPIC.

`

 

[fncceo]

Cite that quote.

#6 here.
Human Intelligence: The APA 1996 Intelligence Task Force Report

There's some apologetics, but THAT is the gist.
And the Differential is the SAME as it was then/20 years ago.

Now YOU Cite any of the alleged studies YOU claimed you STUPID LYING POS.

You also said the idea was "Discredited".. you ******* Fool.
Go hide under a Rock you Filthy LIAR.

You are too BLINDINGLY IGNORANT, Brain Damaged, and DISHONEST to even be debating.

You just pull shit from your ass you like the sound of.

`

Your link is a summary of the APA report criticizing the book 'The Bell Curve' and that quote is an unanswered question of the report, not a confirmation of the idea. The key takeaway in that unanswered question is :

"There is certainly no such support for a genetic interpretation. At present, no one knows what causes this differential." (ibid)


In fact, the APA Task Force report on 'The Bell Curve' was a stinging condemnation of the book. (Neisser et al, 1996) which stated many of the things I and other have stated. That, 'The Bell Curve' attempts to prove causation from correlations that cannot be proven. The APA report further states there are serious issues with attempting to use IQ studies to support claims of racial superiority/inferiority due the fact very little in known about precisely how the the intellect develops from birth to the ages where standardized testing takes place. (Neisser et al, 1996).

Neisser, Ulrich; Boodoo, Gwyneth; Bouchard, Thomas J.; Boykin, A. Wade; Brody, Nathan; Ceci, Stephen J.; Halpern, Diane F.; Loehlin, John C.; Perloff, Robert; Sternberg, Robert J.; Urbina, Susana (1996). "Intelligence: Knowns and Unknowns". American Psychologist. 51:77–101.

The statistical methods and weighting factors used the the authors of 'The Bell Curve' were highly criticized in the following books...

'Inequality by Design', C. Fischer et al

'Intelligence, Genes, and Success: Scientists Respond to The Bell Curve', Stephen E.; Resnick, Daniel P.; Roeder, K, (1997)


Other published condemnations of the conclusions set forth in 'The Bell Curve' can be found here.

William J. Matthews, (1998) 'A Review of the Bell Curve: Bad Science Makes for Bad Conclusions'

James J. Heckman. Cracked Bell', March 1995. Reason

'The Intergenerational Transmission of 'Intelligence' Down the Slippery Slopes of 'The Bell Curve' Industrial Relations: A Journal of Economy and Society, Vol. 38, No. 3, July 1999

 

[fncceo]

but that's my prediction if the human species survives that long.

I have another ...

 

[Confounding]

The guy is Lying/Bullshitting in Every post
He just makes stuff up..

I do that too apparently, and everybody else that disagrees with you.

while I have put alot of time in my posts and this subject for years.
I'm entitled to treat him with the disdain he deserves for just BSing my long hard efforts.

If you want to teach him something maybe a little bit of patience is in order. I can't blame people that don't take in what you have to say while you're calling them stupid motherfuckers, lying pricks and blind fools.

 

[abu afak]

The guy is Lying/Bullshitting in Every post
He just makes stuff up..

I do that too apparently, and everybody else that disagrees with you.

while I have put alot of time in my posts and this subject for years.
I'm entitled to treat him with the disdain he deserves for just BSing my long hard efforts.

If you want to teach him something maybe a little bit of patience is in order. I can't blame people that don't take in what you have to say while you're calling them stupid motherfuckers, lying pricks and blind fools.

You don't like my posting, LEAVE the/MY thread at least, and preferably the board.
No one cares if your offended by the topic or style.

My posts are allowed, Yours are NOT.

DO NOT make any more OFF Topic posts.

 

[abu afak]

Your link is a summary of the APA report criticizing the book 'The Bell Curve' and that quote is an unanswered question of the report, not a confirmation of the idea. The key takeaway in that unanswered question is :

"There is certainly no such support for a genetic interpretation. At present, no one knows what causes this differential." (ibid)

Yes, I know my link quite well
You had never heard of it.

The APA ackowledges the DIFFERENCE in Racial test scores, and said it is NOT socio-economic or test Bias.
YOU LOSE.
That Difference is the Same now.

They correctly say, especially in 1996, they don't have a genetic basis, OF COURSE.

we are just beginning to find the genes for intelligence in the last 5 years or so.
It may be a complex trait involving hundreds of genes... as well as those as simple as cranial capacity/size.

But the idea there IS a racial difference (YOU LOSE) and it cannot be accounted for by Socio-economic or test Bias (YOU LOSE) doesn't leave much room for anything else.

they just can't/dare not say genetic, especially in 1996, of course.
`