A question for my Zionist friends

[Kalam]

The last time I checked muslin run around claiming that they are the inheriter of what God once bestowed upon the Jews and Christians. Such nonsence, and mindless dribble. You need a reality check.

Islam isn't an ethnicity.

You need a spelling check.

 

[RevRabbiJCG]

I stand by all of my posts, Israel was promised the land that their living in by God Himself to Abraham. There's even archelogical proof that the Jews were there long before any muslim/arab lived. Also, for the record, up to the time Israel became a nation that whole area was nothing more then an arid wasteland, muslims did nothing with it. It wasn't until Israeli's drip irrigation. Also, along with cultivating the land that suddenly muslims wanted the land back and cried not fair.

Awesome! Ok. Help me out here. Because I don't often meet people from the "God gave me this land" crowd who will actually cop up to that position. Let me see if I understand. And please, correct me if I have it wrong.

Thousands of years ago a people settled in a land by God's instruction. Then those people were exiled from that land as various empires throughout the ages conquered and reconquered it, and the people settled throughout the world. Finally one benevolent empire, the British Empire, gifted the land back to their distant ancestors who began resettling the land.

Do I have that right? Because I have a lot of questions.

1) When one of these people, lets say you, returns to that land and discovers someone living there, lets say me hypothetically, and you tell me you own my land because God gave it to your distant ancestor, and I'm confused, and refuse to leave, what should happen to me?

2) When you tell me that God gave you the land, and I should leave, do you intend that to be a persuasive argument that I should believe and vacate voluntarily, or do you just mean to explain to me why you are forcing me to leave?

3) Do you consider Israel a theocracy? What does it mean to be a "Jewish State"?

4) What's the deal with the Messiah? My understanding, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is that the Messiah in Judaism is supposed to reestablish the State of Israel. How is that supposed to happen if it's already been established?

5) If the Jews were the rightful owners of the land all along, even without the Messiah, were there other attempts throughout history to establish it?

6) If the legitimacy of Israel comes from God, how much land did God give them? What are the legitimate Biblical boundaries? If those boundaries include territory not currently ruled by Israel what should happen when the current inhabitants refuse to leave?

I know that's ignoring huge parts of the conflict. But I'm trying to go back in time a little and understand the principles you're applying. I have many more questions, but I don't want to overwhelm you.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the palestinans lay claim to the land and that the Jews never have been there

 

[MuslimAgorist]

When prisoners are transferred between Israel and her enemies, the ratio is usually one Israeli in exchange for dozens, sometimes hundreds of Arabs.

Since these trades are endorsed by the Arabs' leadership, isn't that an admission that one Israeli is as valuable as hundreds of Arabs?

And a follow-up: Aren't you offended that the Arab leadership thinks so little of your brethren? I think you should be.

Well, you're question doesn't speak to the relative innocents of the prisoners. Further, Arab leaders don't dictate the value I hold for innocent life. Do American leaders dictate your value for innocent life? (not that I consider Arab leaders my leaders)

 

[MuslimAgorist]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the palestinans lay claim to the land and that the Jews never have been there

I've never heard that before. That'd be a little strange considering the Quran confirms that the Israelites came from there. I think they claim is, the didn't own the land when they moved in. Admittedly alot of land was purchased by Jews, and certainly they have a right to that land. But that doesn't address any of my questions. I'd appreciate it.

 

[daveman]

Well, you're question doesn't speak to the relative innocents of the prisoners.

So Israel holds Arab prisoners for what...spitting on the sidewalk?

Further, Arab leaders don't dictate the value I hold for innocent life. Do American leaders dictate your value for innocent life? (not that I consider Arab leaders my leaders)

No, they don't. To me, every human is valuable...until they prove that they would best serve society by assuming ambient temperature. Terrorists are in that group.

 

[daveman]

Your assumption fails since there are no innocent Palestinians, they all chose to live where they do and to support terrorism.

What a nice little wonder-world you have drawn for your self.
Maybe you add this into your wonder-world:
How about all Americans are Abu Ghraib-ists and Hiroshima-ists?

I'll make an counter offer. Why don't we make a talley of all the terrorist acts done by muslims in the name of Islam, and for Islam's sake. Then we'll do a talley of terrorist acts done by other in the name of conquering the enemy in the act of war.
Remember December 7, 1941, a date which will live in infamy. Now, it's September 11, 2001 a date which will live in infamy as well.

15,555 deaths due to radical Islam since 9/11.

 

[Marc39]

The last time I checked muslin run around claiming that they are the inheriter of what God once bestowed upon the Jews and Christians. Such nonsence, and mindless dribble. You need a reality check.

Islam isn't an ethnicity.

You need a spelling check.

Islam is a cult. A cult invented by an illiterate pedophile and mass murderer.

SUCKA!

 

[RevRabbiJCG]

What a nice little wonder-world you have drawn for your self.
Maybe you add this into your wonder-world:
How about all Americans are Abu Ghraib-ists and Hiroshima-ists?

I'll make an counter offer. Why don't we make a talley of all the terrorist acts done by muslims in the name of Islam, and for Islam's sake. Then we'll do a talley of terrorist acts done by other in the name of conquering the enemy in the act of war.
Remember December 7, 1941, a date which will live in infamy. Now, it's September 11, 2001 a date which will live in infamy as well.

15,555 deaths due to radical Islam since 9/11.

And counting, and to think we have people insisting that Islam is a religion of peace. What a load!

 

[RevRabbiJCG]

I stand by all of my posts, Israel was promised the land that their living in by God Himself to Abraham. There's even archelogical proof that the Jews were there long before any muslim/arab lived. Also, for the record, up to the time Israel became a nation that whole area was nothing more then an arid wasteland, muslims did nothing with it. It wasn't until Israeli's drip irrigation. Also, along with cultivating the land that suddenly muslims wanted the land back and cried not fair.

Awesome! Ok. Help me out here. Because I don't often meet people from the "God gave me this land" crowd who will actually cop up to that position. Let me see if I understand. And please, correct me if I have it wrong.

Thousands of years ago a people settled in a land by God's instruction. Then those people were exiled from that land as various empires throughout the ages conquered and reconquered it, and the people settled throughout the world. Finally one benevolent empire, the British Empire, gifted the land back to their distant ancestors who began resettling the land.

Do I have that right? Because I have a lot of questions.

1) When one of these people, lets say you, returns to that land and discovers someone living there, lets say me hypothetically, and you tell me you own my land because God gave it to your distant ancestor, and I'm confused, and refuse to leave, what should happen to me?

2) When you tell me that God gave you the land, and I should leave, do you intend that to be a persuasive argument that I should believe and vacate voluntarily, or do you just mean to explain to me why you are forcing me to leave?

3) Do you consider Israel a theocracy? What does it mean to be a "Jewish State"?

4) What's the deal with the Messiah? My understanding, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is that the Messiah in Judaism is supposed to reestablish the State of Israel. How is that supposed to happen if it's already been established?

5) If the Jews were the rightful owners of the land all along, even without the Messiah, were there other attempts throughout history to establish it?

6) If the legitimacy of Israel comes from God, how much land did God give them? What are the legitimate Biblical boundaries? If those boundaries include territory not currently ruled by Israel what should happen when the current inhabitants refuse to leave?

I know that's ignoring huge parts of the conflict. But I'm trying to go back in time a little and understand the principles you're applying. I have many more questions, but I don't want to overwhelm you.

God told Abraham to go onto a mountain and basically to take a look around ( i.e. as far as you can see that's the land I have given you and your decendance) And when the Lord said that He meant Isaac and Jacob.

 

[Marc39]

I'll make an counter offer. Why don't we make a talley of all the terrorist acts done by muslims in the name of Islam, and for Islam's sake. Then we'll do a talley of terrorist acts done by other in the name of conquering the enemy in the act of war.
Remember December 7, 1941, a date which will live in infamy. Now, it's September 11, 2001 a date which will live in infamy as well.

15,555 deaths due to radical Islam since 9/11.

And counting, and to think we have people insisting that Islam is a religion of peace. What a load!

Islam is only a religion of peace if you agree to be a brainwashed robot prostrating yourself 5x a day to a ridiculous imaginary Allah that an illiterate pedophile invented for his own self-enrichment.

Otherwise, not so much

 

[daveman]

I'll make an counter offer. Why don't we make a talley of all the terrorist acts done by muslims in the name of Islam, and for Islam's sake. Then we'll do a talley of terrorist acts done by other in the name of conquering the enemy in the act of war.
Remember December 7, 1941, a date which will live in infamy. Now, it's September 11, 2001 a date which will live in infamy as well.

15,555 deaths due to radical Islam since 9/11.

And counting, and to think we have people insisting that Islam is a religion of peace. What a load!

It certainly lends itself to radical interpretation.

 

[Kalam]

What a nice little wonder-world you have drawn for your self.
Maybe you add this into your wonder-world:
How about all Americans are Abu Ghraib-ists and Hiroshima-ists?

I'll make an counter offer. Why don't we make a talley of all the terrorist acts done by muslims in the name of Islam, and for Islam's sake. Then we'll do a talley of terrorist acts done by other in the name of conquering the enemy in the act of war.
Remember December 7, 1941, a date which will live in infamy. Now, it's September 11, 2001 a date which will live in infamy as well.

15,555 deaths due to radical Islam since 9/11.

Credible source you've got there.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

It stands.

 

[Marc39]

I'll make an counter offer. Why don't we make a talley of all the terrorist acts done by muslims in the name of Islam, and for Islam's sake. Then we'll do a talley of terrorist acts done by other in the name of conquering the enemy in the act of war.
Remember December 7, 1941, a date which will live in infamy. Now, it's September 11, 2001 a date which will live in infamy as well.

15,555 deaths due to radical Islam since 9/11.

Credible source you've got there.

As opposed to, say, a cult invented by an illiterate pedophile?

 

[Marc39]

I'll make an counter offer. Why don't we make a talley of all the terrorist acts done by muslims in the name of Islam, and for Islam's sake. Then we'll do a talley of terrorist acts done by other in the name of conquering the enemy in the act of war.
Remember December 7, 1941, a date which will live in infamy. Now, it's September 11, 2001 a date which will live in infamy as well.

15,555 deaths due to radical Islam since 9/11.

And counting, and to think we have people insisting that Islam is a religion of peace. What a load!

The religion of pieces, after the suicide monkeys blow themselves up

 

[daveman]

I'll make an counter offer. Why don't we make a talley of all the terrorist acts done by muslims in the name of Islam, and for Islam's sake. Then we'll do a talley of terrorist acts done by other in the name of conquering the enemy in the act of war.
Remember December 7, 1941, a date which will live in infamy. Now, it's September 11, 2001 a date which will live in infamy as well.

15,555 deaths due to radical Islam since 9/11.

Credible source you've got there.

Of course you dismiss it. It's telling the truth.

 

[Marc39]

15,555 deaths due to radical Islam since 9/11.

Credible source you've got there.

Of course you dismiss it. It's telling the truth.

Jihadists are not radical Muslims. They are merely following the commands of their Allah, which is quite traditional.

 

[daveman]

Credible source you've got there.

Of course you dismiss it. It's telling the truth.

Jihadists are not radical Muslims. They are merely following the commands of their Allah, which is quite traditional.

Mainstream Muslims don't follow those commands. They will be the redemption of Islam.

 

[Marc39]

Of course you dismiss it. It's telling the truth.

Jihadists are not radical Muslims. They are merely following the commands of their Allah, which is quite traditional.

Mainstream Muslims don't follow those commands. They will be the redemption of Islam.

You know which mainstream Muslims won't be the next jihadist? The only redemption is conversion.

 

[daveman]

Jihadists are not radical Muslims. They are merely following the commands of their Allah, which is quite traditional.

Mainstream Muslims don't follow those commands. They will be the redemption of Islam.

You know which mainstream Muslims won't be the next jihadist? The only redemption is conversion.

I've known and worked with many mainstream Muslims. None of them were likely to turn radical.