A question for all thinking people in America!

[Tehon]

What I don't understand is your emphasis on atheism. The Americans and the French also shared the belief that earthly rule over man was not granted by god but by man. Beyond that, what do I or any other left thinking person care what one's personal beliefs are? And this also is the sentiment of our forefathers.

Technically, we're the only nation in the history of the world which has based its entire philosophy of government on the idea that all men are created. Endowed by their Creator. That's clearly stated in the Bill of Rights and it's the primary foundation for moral code which serves to support the whole of the principles of Individual liberty in America. Thus God-given rights. Meaning the responsibility to defend these rights is to God, the giver of them. In other words, a spiritual brotherhood of men under the common fatherhood of God. The Golden Rule, man. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

By default, the tradional American philosophy of governance is religious in nature.

I do agree with you, however, that more death, destruction, rape, pillage and so forth have been done in the name of God than any other reason. Or about whose God is bigger than than the other guy's God. But this is a consequence of the nature of Man. Man is a mix of good and evil. Which, of course, is why the Founders left us the means to limit them strictly should they come to power. The flipside of that is that as the gradual erosion of moral decay occurs in America, we do not have the moral capacity ourselves as a societ to hold these men in power to any kind of moral standard. All of Man is a mixture of good and evil. Not just those in power.

I think you mean to say the idea, "that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness", is clearly stated in the Declaration of Independence.

After that I think you take a giant leap of faith. There has never been a "common fatherhood of god" in this country. That was clearly articulated in the Bill of Rights.

 

[Natural Citizen]

I think you mean to say the idea, "that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness", is clearly stated in the Declaration of Independence.

After that I think you take a giant leap of faith. There has never been a "common fatherhood of god" in this country. That was clearly articulated in the Bill of Rights.

Heh heh. I did reference the BoR, huh. Its early, man. Cut me a break.

The point I was trying to make is that our traditional philosophy of governance is patently religious in nature. Again, all men are created...endowed by their Creator. It's right there in black and white.

That's all I was saying.

 

[Natural Citizen]

You're right, though, Tehon, there never has been a collective belief in a spiritual brotherhood of men under a common Fatherhood of God among the electorate in America.

 

[FJO]

The scumbag who will be our next Supreme Court person is supposed to protect the president, the POS Russian loving president?

That '37' in your moniker must be your IQ.

And that is kind and generous.

 

[Tehon]

I think you mean to say the idea, "that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness", is clearly stated in the Declaration of Independence.

After that I think you take a giant leap of faith. There has never been a "common fatherhood of god" in this country. That was clearly articulated in the Bill of Rights.

Heh heh. I did reference the BoR, huh. Its early, man. Cut me a break.

The point I was trying to make is that our traditional philosophy of governance is patently religious in nature. Again, all men are created...endowed by their Creator. It's right there in black and white.

That's all I was saying.

What you are saying is wrong. A system of government that ascribes the right of rule to the divine is one that is patently religious.

Our philosophy is that the right of rule derives from men, not God.

 

[Natural Citizen]

What you are saying is wrong. A system of government that ascribes the right of rule to the divine is one that is patently religious.

Our philosophy is that the right of rule derives from men, not God.

Well, we're not a Monarchy. Our rights are unalienable, per the Declaration.

''...endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights..."

Our rights aren't endowed by a king.

 

[night_son]

So, Leftist/Democrats believe that corporations/company's are crooked, and out to screw people for the most part, while being out for only money/profit. Is this not true of their basic ideology? That is their big complaint about Capitalism.

So who runs these entities? Is it, A Martians? B reptiles, C Neptunians, or D human beings?

Now then, if you didn't pick D, then this thread is NOT for you, lol.

And so, with D being human beings, what is their solution? Is it, A put Martians in charge of government, or B put reptiles in charge of government, C put Neptunians in charge of government, or D put humans in charge of government and let them control everything?

So now, they want YOU to believe that human beings...…...the same human beings who THEY insist are out to screw you, they now want to give not only massive amounts of YOUR money...………...plus massive amounts of corporate money...………..plus something the CEOs and heads of company's do NOT have; MASSIVE AMOUNTS of POWER over everyone, and these saints are going to somehow save you, and not be corrupt, lolololololol.

Let us look at where these supposed saints are leading now----------> CHICAGO, hehehehehehe! In fact, this saint used to be chief of staff for Obysmal. How is that working out for the denizens of Chicago?

What about the saintly politicians of California? Why, everytime the people vote on referendum votes and they don't like it, they over turn the will of the people!

Lets look at these saints across the country, lolol. Why, our President was voted in LEGALLY by our system. Wasn't even close! But the saints can't have that, so they will do everything to over turn the election, Walmart smelly people be damned!

Sooooooooooooo, the question is simple-----------> Do YOU the voter control the states, and the federal government, or do they control you? Are these supposed saints, really saints; or rather, are they tyrants trying to take power out of your hands? Are they that smart, or are they that power hungry?

Do you really believe that the same kind of arrogant people who run corporations who took a different path and went into politics instead, should be trusted to control as much of your life as these Leftists want to control?

If you find 1 great person to do what the Left wants, he/she can only be elected twice. So, can you find the 2nd one to be so benevolent? NOT LIKELY you can even find the 1st!

Do you want people who beat the hell out of people they disagree with to be in charge? And do we all realize that the only way they can institute their ideas is to bankrupt the country faaaaaaaaar worse than it already is, or raise taxes so high, they will confiscate your wealth at the point of a gun?

Republicans SUCK! Leftists are 3 times worse. Their ideas suck so bad, all they have is to say Republicans suck, lol. (which is true, probably the only thing they have as truth, but I bet if they define themselves, they won't admit that they are 3 times worse)

We have a choice to make, and the Left wants you to give them power as they are saints. Do any of them remind you of Mother Theresa? Hell, do any of them remind you of JFK? Or rather, do they remind you of a bunch of people, trying to find an excuse, to tell you are were stupid, dumb, and a bunch of rubes, and they know better than you do, so they are just going to FORCE you to see it their way!

Their root ideology stems from the minds of Enlightenment Era atheist philosophers whose published writings and teachings were reactions to lingering feudal European governments, a politicized and oppressive French Catholic Church, and of course, the wealth wielded by the Monarchy and the nobility. While the basest concept of equalizing all men and women in society is a very noble one, the historical Leftist revolutionary method of doing so has always resulted in the murders of tens of millions of citizens by their government or each other--as a result of this Leftist radical ideology.

Yes, we American people do have a choice. Either we fight against the revolutionary ideologues with every weapon at our disposal, beginning with counterrevolutionary ideology, or we can take the current Democratic Party cultural and political push for twisted policies such as abortion, the trans movement, anti-Christianity, anti-truth and anti-Americanism and political correctness, all as the tip of a much larger iceberg which will eventually change America into some place Americans cannot recognize, nor would wish to live in at all.

The same enlightenment philosophies that inspired the American experiment.

Now you've become a Francophile? Lucky for us our Founding Fathers, while enamored with Enlightenment philosophy, were revolutionaries of a different stripe. While I note as respectable your historically shared notion that the geography of the Atlantic ocean prevented our Founders from following the French Revolutionary ideological model, I and others disagree. Our Colonies lacked anything close to the 28 million strong French population of the 1780's with which to incite a blood thirsty revolutionary peasant army, for one, and two--Enlightenment philosophy at its Leftism revolutionary core is Atheistic, while our Founders were believers, despite all attempts to rewrite their personal beliefs as otherwise.

Our Colonies also lacked the decadent feudal political power of the Ancien Régime French Catholic Church, the French Nobility and a geographically co-located ruling Monarchy for use to drum up enough hatred against from the working class to storm any Bastille with angry mobs. And lastly, our Founding Fathers held moral facts sacred which prevented them from cutting open the bellies of pregnant women to slay the unborn inside, or tying men and women together to logs and watching them drown.

Very thoughtful of you to expand upon my assertion that the root ideology stemmed from the same enlightenment era atheist philosophers but manifested itself in different ways due to differing circumstances.

What I don't understand is your emphasis on atheism. The Americans and the French also shared the belief that earthly rule over man was not granted by god but by man. Beyond that, what do I or any other left thinking person care what one's personal beliefs are? And this also is the sentiment of our forefathers.

Is it not true that great atrocities have been committed in the name of god just as surely as they have by angry mobs in the name of freedom?

So, Leftist/Democrats believe that corporations/company's are crooked, and out to screw people for the most part, while being out for only money/profit. Is this not true of their basic ideology? That is their big complaint about Capitalism.

So who runs these entities? Is it, A Martians? B reptiles, C Neptunians, or D human beings?

Now then, if you didn't pick D, then this thread is NOT for you, lol.

And so, with D being human beings, what is their solution? Is it, A put Martians in charge of government, or B put reptiles in charge of government, C put Neptunians in charge of government, or D put humans in charge of government and let them control everything?

So now, they want YOU to believe that human beings...…...the same human beings who THEY insist are out to screw you, they now want to give not only massive amounts of YOUR money...………...plus massive amounts of corporate money...………..plus something the CEOs and heads of company's do NOT have; MASSIVE AMOUNTS of POWER over everyone, and these saints are going to somehow save you, and not be corrupt, lolololololol.

Let us look at where these supposed saints are leading now----------> CHICAGO, hehehehehehe! In fact, this saint used to be chief of staff for Obysmal. How is that working out for the denizens of Chicago?

What about the saintly politicians of California? Why, everytime the people vote on referendum votes and they don't like it, they over turn the will of the people!

Lets look at these saints across the country, lolol. Why, our President was voted in LEGALLY by our system. Wasn't even close! But the saints can't have that, so they will do everything to over turn the election, Walmart smelly people be damned!

Sooooooooooooo, the question is simple-----------> Do YOU the voter control the states, and the federal government, or do they control you? Are these supposed saints, really saints; or rather, are they tyrants trying to take power out of your hands? Are they that smart, or are they that power hungry?

Do you really believe that the same kind of arrogant people who run corporations who took a different path and went into politics instead, should be trusted to control as much of your life as these Leftists want to control?

If you find 1 great person to do what the Left wants, he/she can only be elected twice. So, can you find the 2nd one to be so benevolent? NOT LIKELY you can even find the 1st!

Do you want people who beat the hell out of people they disagree with to be in charge? And do we all realize that the only way they can institute their ideas is to bankrupt the country faaaaaaaaar worse than it already is, or raise taxes so high, they will confiscate your wealth at the point of a gun?

Republicans SUCK! Leftists are 3 times worse. Their ideas suck so bad, all they have is to say Republicans suck, lol. (which is true, probably the only thing they have as truth, but I bet if they define themselves, they won't admit that they are 3 times worse)

We have a choice to make, and the Left wants you to give them power as they are saints. Do any of them remind you of Mother Theresa? Hell, do any of them remind you of JFK? Or rather, do they remind you of a bunch of people, trying to find an excuse, to tell you are were stupid, dumb, and a bunch of rubes, and they know better than you do, so they are just going to FORCE you to see it their way!

Their root ideology stems from the minds of Enlightenment Era atheist philosophers whose published writings and teachings were reactions to lingering feudal European governments, a politicized and oppressive French Catholic Church, and of course, the wealth wielded by the Monarchy and the nobility. While the basest concept of equalizing all men and women in society is a very noble one, the historical Leftist revolutionary method of doing so has always resulted in the murders of tens of millions of citizens by their government or each other--as a result of this Leftist radical ideology.

Yes, we American people do have a choice. Either we fight against the revolutionary ideologues with every weapon at our disposal, beginning with counterrevolutionary ideology, or we can take the current Democratic Party cultural and political push for twisted policies such as abortion, the trans movement, anti-Christianity, anti-truth and anti-Americanism and political correctness, all as the tip of a much larger iceberg which will eventually change America into some place Americans cannot recognize, nor would wish to live in at all.

The same enlightenment philosophies that inspired the American experiment.

Now you've become a Francophile? Lucky for us our Founding Fathers, while enamored with Enlightenment philosophy, were revolutionaries of a different stripe. While I note as respectable your historically shared notion that the geography of the Atlantic ocean prevented our Founders from following the French Revolutionary ideological model, I and others disagree. Our Colonies lacked anything close to the 28 million strong French population of the 1780's with which to incite a blood thirsty revolutionary peasant army, for one, and two--Enlightenment philosophy at its Leftism revolutionary core is Atheistic, while our Founders were believers, despite all attempts to rewrite their personal beliefs as otherwise.

Our Colonies also lacked the decadent feudal political power of the Ancien Régime French Catholic Church, the French Nobility and a geographically co-located ruling Monarchy for use to drum up enough hatred against from the working class to storm any Bastille with angry mobs. And lastly, our Founding Fathers held moral facts sacred which prevented them from cutting open the bellies of pregnant women to slay the unborn inside, or tying men and women together to logs and watching them drown.

Very thoughtful of you to expand upon my assertion that the root ideology stemmed from the same enlightenment era atheist philosophers but manifested itself in different ways due to differing circumstances.

What I don't understand is your emphasis on atheism. The Americans and the French also shared the belief that earthly rule over man was not granted by god but by man. Beyond that, what do I or any other left thinking person care what one's personal beliefs are? And this also is the sentiment of our forefathers.

Is it not true that great atrocities have been committed in the name of god just as surely as they have by angry mobs in the name of freedom?

Because, Tehon, the fundamental epochal difference between the epistemological quest for seeking and understanding knowledge between the Right and Left in their most ancient manifestations is: the Right begins said quest from the indisputable, indelible foundations of God and moral fact; where the ancient Left begins the same quest from a foundation devoid of both God and moral fact--and thus must stumble ahead blindly in the absence of the eternal constant of foundational right and wrong.

Religion is the result of human interpretation of God, and, of human devised means of worshipping God. Unfortunately, and same as everything else Mankind touches, religion has been politicized over the Ages for use as a means of societal control, fortune making machines and social engineering on high. That being said, and despite the loss of life attributable to men killing in the name of other men while claiming to do so in the name of God, far more political and ideological murders have been carried out in the name of godless philosophies, than religious ones. It's not even close. What's even more concerning is that more human deaths resulted from far-Left revolutionary ideologies in the last three centuries, than the total number of deaths from religious political killings over the last 2000 years!

A final breakdown:

Religious or rather God based philosophies, begin with or are built from a foundation of understanding that the most fundamental definitions of basic human Right and Wrong can never be altered or redefined. While men are flawed and often murder the hell out of each other, human behavior can never change the laws of right and wrong, even though Mankind itself will commit wrong acts and right acts.

Atheistic philosophies lack the belief in or foundation of primeval, indelible Right and Wrong, and so tend to view these ancient moral facts as flexible social constructs which can be changed or redefined to suit their needs of the "day" or Era. And this is where Atheistic philosophies start having genocidal trouble when translated to real world, applied political theory.

I would even go so far as to say that--for the purposes of our discussion--it doesn't even matter if God is real or not. So long as those fundamental since the beginning of time definitions of the moral facts of Right and Wrong, based on the Logos, are never redefined, their guidance as a foundation for a new Civilization, such as the USA, will carry said civilization morally into the future without mass democide, whereas civilizations lacking those underlying moral foundations are highly likely to murder their own people.

Why did the French Revolution fail where the American Colonial Revolution succeeded and continues to succeed over two centuries later? Well, while we could write a few volumes on the subject, my own unpopular opinion is, is the answer is: we, the future USA had God and the Logos and a philosophy forged on moral fact. The French? They were also about escaping out from under centuries of hedonistic governing tyranny, and yet in having their revolution they dismissed God and moral fact as part of the human problem, where our Founders embraced and incorporated God and moral fact as something higher than human behavior, which could be derived from and utilized to endow and empower better human behavior.

The historical victor-philosophy, and the benevolence of the ongoing result are self-evident to this day.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

America has been a full blown socialist economy since the early 70's. 1971, to be precise. Though, the socialist roots of our current economy were established in 1913.
It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure that out.

Do you advocate for Socialism? Or are you an admitted Communist (which seems to fit your dialog better). You seem to be wanting to "justify" the decay of our system. Because corrupt men have further perverted our government and through it our social structure, neither justifies it nor qualifies it. Show us where in the US Constitution there is provision for the government or ANY entity to advocate for the means of production, distribution or exchange to be owned or regulated by the community as a whole. (Which by the way is a MUCH softened definition that the Left has concocted to make Socialism sound less frightening than earlier definitions)

In your infinite wisdom, you are confusing Socialism with Social Programs.
Socialism is not based on the voluntary surrender of means of production. As long as production remains voluntary, we are not a Socialist system.
In 1913 the IRS basically began to collect Income Taxes. The original intent of the IRS was to fund war expenses. So one could actually argue 1862 is more precise an origin point than 1913. But I won't argue that point. But again, Social PROGRAMS are vastly different than SOCIALISM.

Those of you who say they are the same, seem to be simply attempting to sway easily distracted minds from the facts in order to lay a foundation for their eventual conversion to accepting Socialism.

See the "Marxist theory" of Socialism below.

Some good reading by someone else other than yourself who has given this some thought....(he's not a brain surgeon either)
Social programs are not socialism | HeraldNet.com

so·cial·ism
ˈsōSHəˌlizəm/
noun
noun: socialism

1. a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
   synonyms: leftism, welfarism; More
   radicalism, progressivism, social democracy;
   communism, Marxism, labor movement
   "my appreciation for certain aspects of socialism does not mean I'm a socialist"
   • policy or practice based on the political and economic theory of socialism.
     synonyms: leftism, welfarism; More
     radicalism, progressivism, social democracy;
     communism, Marxism, labor movement
     "my appreciation for certain aspects of socialism does not mean I'm a socialist"
   • (in Marxist theory) a transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of communism.

 

[Tehon]

Because, Tehon, the fundamental epochal difference between the epistemological quest for seeking and understanding knowledge between the Right and Left in their most ancient manifestations is: the Right begins said quest from the indisputable, indelible foundations of God and moral fact; where the ancient Left begins the same quest from a foundation devoid of both God and moral fact--and thus must stumble ahead blindly in the absence of the eternal constant of foundational right and wrong.

Well, at least the lefty philosophers stumbled onto the idea of individual freedom. Otherwise we might still be ruled by Monarchs, in close association with the church, shoving their subjective moral beliefs down our throats as if they were facts instead of allowing each individual to determine for themselves what is moral and what is not.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Do you advocate for Socialism?

Nope. I advocate for free markets. Ever hear of those? We used to have them. Not anymore, however.

Or are you an admitted Communist (which seems to fit your dialog better).

Nope. I'm a libertarian. A real one, too, so tread lightly, I don't play that blue helmets vs red helmets game that's so popular around here. I'll take you to places you've never been in this kind of discussion, guaranteed.

You seem to be wanting to "justify" the decay of our system.

Nope. I want to legalize freedom. I want to legalize free markets again.What's so bad about that?

In your infinite wisdom, you are confusing Socialism with Social Programs.

Nope. I never even mentioned social programs. Abolish them as far as I'm concerned, they're unconstitutional. And they're broke, thanks to what? You guessed it...our monetary policy.

I'm talking about monetary policy. So you're being overly sensitive. And you're reframing what I said into your own terms. That won't work when you're debating me. You can try. But it won't work.

Socialism is not based on the voluntary surrender of means of production. As long as production remains voluntary, we are not a Socialist system.

As I said, America has been a full blown socialist economy since 1971.

We have economic interventionism by the federal government. We have a planned economy. We have central economic planning by a central bank. We have inflationism. We have a belief in deficit financing. We have a welfare state.

This is so far removed from free-markets that it's laughable to call it that.

What we have is an economic system where the government tells the market what to do instead of the other way around like it should be where the market tells the government what to do.

Keynesianism is socialism. Educate yourself on economic theory and study monetary policy. Especialy if you're gonna pick a debate with somebody who understands economic theory and our monetery policy.

In 1913 the IRS basically began to collect Income Taxes.

The IRS was created in 1913 as the collection wing for the Federal Reserve, also created in 1913. Do you think it's pure irony they wereboth created at the same time? It's not irony. Educate yourself before getting into these discussions. Both of those entities, by the way, were made possible as a consequence of the 16th amendment created in, you guessed it, 1913.

The IRS serves to collect taxes and turns them over to the Treasury so that the Treasury can pay the principal plus interest on that bond that the Federal Reserve bought with a check which is drawn on an account that has nothing in it. And I'll explain that when I chat with Mac about it. Pay attention when we talk about it. You might learn something.

The original intent of the IRS was to fund war expenses.

Nope. I'll repeat. We pay tax to the IRS who then turns out numbers over to the Treasury so that the Treasury can pay the principal plus the interest on bonds that were purchased by the Federal Reserve with a check drawn on an account that has nothing in it.

The IRS operates under the pretext that the government owns and controls you, owns and controls all of your income, and may set the terms for which you may keep a portion. If you dont agree, you get hauled off to court where you're forced to provide paperwork that effectively compels you to testify against yourself in front of an uninformed jury. What's that sound like to you? Hm? What.

Matter of fact, that's the real unconstitutionality of the income tax. The way they collect it. Brcause it is assumed that we're guilty until proven innocent. That turns the Constitution completely upside down.

So one could actually argue 1862 is more precise an origin point than 1913. But I won't argue that point. But again, Social PROGRAMS are vastly different than SOCIALISM.

I'm talking about monetary policy. Not social programs. Don't you read good?

See the "Marxist theory" of Socialism below.

No. I could likely recite Marx word for word as it is.

What you need to do is study economic theory and our monetary policy, so you can stay on topic if you're gonna challenge someone about it. Do you think educated people who understand our monetary policy are just going to dumb themselves down to the red versus blue narrative you seem to want to reframe my words into here? Ain't happening.

As I said, we don't have free markets. We have a Keynesian economy. Which, btw, is socialist. What we have is, again, an economic system where the government tells the market what to do instead of the other way around like it should be where the market tells the government what to do.

To repeat: We have economic interventionism by the government. We have a planned economy. We have central economic planning by a central bank. We have inflationism. We have a belief in deficit financing. We have a welfare state.

This is the reason we're 21 trillion dollars in debt, and it's the reason the value of our dollar is precisely 4 cents....and dropping.

This is the antithesis to a free market economy. And freedom itself.

 

[Natural Citizen]

You know, Tehon, you pretty much have everything in place to have your socialist form of government. Economicaly speaking, anyway.

The question, really, and Marx never had the answer, he never even offered an answer, so far as I've read, and I've read him rather thoroughly, is how you actually do the flip from one to the other.

What I mean is that Marx never really explained how the state would ''wither away'' after the ''dictatorship of the proletaria'' began. Really, he did nothing to stop Lenin from popping off about rationing liberty. Lenin's decree on liberty was rather clear. What he said was that liberty must be carefully rationed. Right?

 

[g5000]

No bed wetter has ever explained to me how we can have the craddle to grave nanny state without commissars whipping us and sending us off to gulags.

The many socialist states of Western Europe would disagree.

 

[g5000]

If I pay a politician to give me a tax break, at the expense of causing a deficit or higher taxes on everyone else, that is NOT capitalism.

And that is the system we have today, folks.

 

[Tehon]

You know, Tehon, you pretty much have everything in place to have your socialist form of government. Economicaly speaking, anyway.

The question, really, and Marx never had the answer, he never even offered an answer, so far as I've read, and I've read him rather thoroughly, is how you actually do the flip from one to the other.

What I mean is that Marx never really explained how the state would ''wither away'' after the ''dictatorship of the proletaria'' began.

One needs to have a solid grasp of the philosophy in order to understand how the state could just wither away. It is implied.

I don't believe anything is in place for a social revolution of the means of production. Not by a long shot.

 

[Tehon]

If I pay a politician to give me a tax break, at the expense of causing a deficit or higher taxes on everyone else, that is NOT capitalism.

And that is the system we have today, folks.

If you paid a politician money, as an investment on future returns, that is exactly capitalism.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

So, Leftist/Democrats believe that corporations/company's are crooked, and out to screw people for the most part, while being out for only money/profit. Is this not true of their basic ideology? That is their big complaint about Capitalism.

So who runs these entities? Is it, A Martians? B reptiles, C Neptunians, or D human beings?

Now then, if you didn't pick D, then this thread is NOT for you, lol.

And so, with D being human beings, what is their solution? Is it, A put Martians in charge of government, or B put reptiles in charge of government, C put Neptunians in charge of government, or D put humans in charge of government and let them control everything?

So now, they want YOU to believe that human beings...…...the same human beings who THEY insist are out to screw you, they now want to give not only massive amounts of YOUR money...………...plus massive amounts of corporate money...………..plus something the CEOs and heads of company's do NOT have; MASSIVE AMOUNTS of POWER over everyone, and these saints are going to somehow save you, and not be corrupt, lolololololol.

Let us look at where these supposed saints are leading now----------> CHICAGO, hehehehehehe! In fact, this saint used to be chief of staff for Obysmal. How is that working out for the denizens of Chicago?

What about the saintly politicians of California? Why, everytime the people vote on referendum votes and they don't like it, they over turn the will of the people!

Lets look at these saints across the country, lolol. Why, our President was voted in LEGALLY by our system. Wasn't even close! But the saints can't have that, so they will do everything to over turn the election, Walmart smelly people be damned!

Sooooooooooooo, the question is simple-----------> Do YOU the voter control the states, and the federal government, or do they control you? Are these supposed saints, really saints; or rather, are they tyrants trying to take power out of your hands? Are they that smart, or are they that power hungry?

Do you really believe that the same kind of arrogant people who run corporations who took a different path and went into politics instead, should be trusted to control as much of your life as these Leftists want to control?

If you find 1 great person to do what the Left wants, he/she can only be elected twice. So, can you find the 2nd one to be so benevolent? NOT LIKELY you can even find the 1st!

Do you want people who beat the hell out of people they disagree with to be in charge? And do we all realize that the only way they can institute their ideas is to bankrupt the country faaaaaaaaar worse than it already is, or raise taxes so high, they will confiscate your wealth at the point of a gun?

Republicans SUCK! Leftists are 3 times worse. Their ideas suck so bad, all they have is to say Republicans suck, lol. (which is true, probably the only thing they have as truth, but I bet if they define themselves, they won't admit that they are 3 times worse)

We have a choice to make, and the Left wants you to give them power as they are saints. Do any of them remind you of Mother Theresa? Hell, do any of them remind you of JFK? Or rather, do they remind you of a bunch of people, trying to find an excuse, to tell you are were stupid, dumb, and a bunch of rubes, and they know better than you do, so they are just going to FORCE you to see it their way!

LefTards honestly believe that shit happens from the bottom up....they genuinely believe the guy pushing the broom at Microsoft built the PC empire. They think people on welfare make the nation tick. In LibTardia everything is weird and backward....Consider this, if you were a total piece of shit lowlife you might bust your ass trying to convince yourself that you’ve got life by the balls and that the world revolves around you and people like you....right?

My grandfather told me something once, leftists are mad at the world, they are angry and feel like they were screwed by "the man". They have an entitlement attitude and have a misguided belief everyone should be on an even plateau regardless if someone makes something of themselves, that individual should share with them. It's where their love of Socialism comes into play. What they don't realize even in a Socialist state there is still the ruling class the only difference is those individuals that do make something of themselves are dragged down to their level and will be just as miserable as they are now. I'd much rather live in a free state, where capitalism allows anyone with drive, ambition and know how to succeed.

I don't normally agree with anything you say Lass,but in this I tend to agree LADY(Your Granpa was a wise man)...but with qualification,many workers are exploited,you must agree,the wages in America for a 1st World Country are shockingly poor.

Like you,life expierences and advice are so important and being of Irish decent this I can understand...... but not all have such guidence.

My Mom was widdowed at 28 with six children,in a monetry sense we were poor but in life healthy and happy growing up...We lived a form of Socialism,sharing everything,work around the home and money when we got jobs,paper rounds an all...All my siblings have done well...I own a company that employs 304 Team members on three continents,we treat them like a big family but over 35 years,had 93% retention of staff,who without(in my opinion)we could never have been so successful...I am also paid by the Government to go into failing businesses...It is always the same an over bearing boss and very low staff morale.

Our Mom,we greatly admire and are indebted to....at 47 she decided to become a Nurse at which she succeeded,well a Mid-Wife...always loved children and she had plenty of practice LOL

A Family cannot succeed without nurturing and it's the same with employees...(which many bosses seem to ignore) you Earn Great Loyalty and Respect....Thank you so much Lass for your post...I am glad to see another side of you...Best Regards steven

I appreciate that, thank you

 

[imawhosure]

So, Leftist/Democrats believe that corporations/company's are crooked, and out to screw people for the most part, while being out for only money/profit. Is this not true of their basic ideology? That is their big complaint about Capitalism.

So who runs these entities? Is it, A Martians? B reptiles, C Neptunians, or D human beings?

Now then, if you didn't pick D, then this thread is NOT for you, lol.

And so, with D being human beings, what is their solution? Is it, A put Martians in charge of government, or B put reptiles in charge of government, C put Neptunians in charge of government, or D put humans in charge of government and let them control everything?

So now, they want YOU to believe that human beings...…...the same human beings who THEY insist are out to screw you, they now want to give not only massive amounts of YOUR money...………...plus massive amounts of corporate money...………..plus something the CEOs and heads of company's do NOT have; MASSIVE AMOUNTS of POWER over everyone, and these saints are going to somehow save you, and not be corrupt, lolololololol.

Let us look at where these supposed saints are leading now----------> CHICAGO, hehehehehehe! In fact, this saint used to be chief of staff for Obysmal. How is that working out for the denizens of Chicago?

What about the saintly politicians of California? Why, everytime the people vote on referendum votes and they don't like it, they over turn the will of the people!

Lets look at these saints across the country, lolol. Why, our President was voted in LEGALLY by our system. Wasn't even close! But the saints can't have that, so they will do everything to over turn the election, Walmart smelly people be damned!

Sooooooooooooo, the question is simple-----------> Do YOU the voter control the states, and the federal government, or do they control you? Are these supposed saints, really saints; or rather, are they tyrants trying to take power out of your hands? Are they that smart, or are they that power hungry?

Do you really believe that the same kind of arrogant people who run corporations who took a different path and went into politics instead, should be trusted to control as much of your life as these Leftists want to control?

If you find 1 great person to do what the Left wants, he/she can only be elected twice. So, can you find the 2nd one to be so benevolent? NOT LIKELY you can even find the 1st!

Do you want people who beat the hell out of people they disagree with to be in charge? And do we all realize that the only way they can institute their ideas is to bankrupt the country faaaaaaaaar worse than it already is, or raise taxes so high, they will confiscate your wealth at the point of a gun?

Republicans SUCK! Leftists are 3 times worse. Their ideas suck so bad, all they have is to say Republicans suck, lol. (which is true, probably the only thing they have as truth, but I bet if they define themselves, they won't admit that they are 3 times worse)

We have a choice to make, and the Left wants you to give them power as they are saints. Do any of them remind you of Mother Theresa? Hell, do any of them remind you of JFK? Or rather, do they remind you of a bunch of people, trying to find an excuse, to tell you are were stupid, dumb, and a bunch of rubes, and they know better than you do, so they are just going to FORCE you to see it their way!

Are you a thinking person?

Do you not understand that the capitalist system of production creates a ruling class? And do you not understand the immense social power that the ruling class wields over the population?

Absolutely! I have noticed how Hollywood has behaved, and it has been very badly. Others have noticed too. Why do you think their sales are in the tank.

 

[Pete7469]

Are you a thinking person?

Do you not understand that the capitalist system of production creates a ruling class? And do you not understand the immense social power that the ruling class wields over the population?

This is why I know you are not a thinking person.

There always has been, and always will be a small group of people who "rule" over the majority.

There will always be a class of people who have the best shit money can buy, and there will always be a lot more people who have more shit than money to have someone else haul it away.

There isn't a country on earth that doesn't have a ruling class, and a much larger class of people with no power, or very little beyond a vote. More if they have a vote and a rifle. Then you have classes in between. People who either have more ambition, brains, or whatever else compels them to work harder and seek a better standard of living. There are all sorts of variables but the bottom line is, there always have been, and always will be different classes of people.

You don't know why, because you're convinced human beings, who you don't trust to run corporations fairly and not fuck people over, can be trusted with government authority to make a single class and distribute shit fairly.

 

[Natural Citizen]

One needs to have a solid grasp of the philosophy in order to understand how the state could just wither away. It is implied.

Therein lies the problem. If all one has is an implied result, that tells us that one has no idea if their ism will work

I don't believe anything is in place for a social revolution of the means of production. Not by a long shot.

We've had a completely government manipulated, socialist, monopolized, monetary policy for the greater part of the last hundred years. What that's caused is wage stagnation and disparity in the working class, it's put us 21 trillion in debt, and it's debased our dollar and now they're all complaining about it and blaming it on capitalism and turning around and saying capitalism is so bad, what we need to fix it is socialism, we need more government to fix it, when it, in fact, is our socialist monetary policy which that has caused all of this disparity in the first place.

I think the electorate is just ignorant to what socialism is, because if people understood socialism well enough to go beyond the narrative about production and try to see that our monetary policy itself is patently socialist and the root cause of everything that is destructive to our economy, particularly the huge wealth gap, I think the last thing they'd be asking for is more socialism.

Socialism is what got us in the mess we're in.

 

[Tehon]

Are you a thinking person?

Do you not understand that the capitalist system of production creates a ruling class? And do you not understand the immense social power that the ruling class wields over the population?

This is why I know you are not a thinking person.

There always has been, and always will be a small group of people who "rule" over the majority.

There will always be a class of people who have the best shit money can buy, and there will always be a lot more people who have more shit than money to have someone else haul it away.

There isn't a country on earth that doesn't have a ruling class, and a much larger class of people with no power, or very little beyond a vote. More if they have a vote and a rifle. Then you have classes in between. People who either have more ambition, brains, or whatever else compels them to work harder and seek a better standard of living. There are all sorts of variables but the bottom line is, there always have been, and always will be different classes of people.

You don't know why, because you're convinced human beings, who you don't trust to run corporations fairly and not fuck people over, can be trusted with government authority to make a single class and distribute shit fairly.

We agree then. I understand perfectly well that there is, and always has been (since the development of organized trade), a ruling class. I also understand that many conservatives, if not most, will attempt to deny the existence of class struggle. They believe that with the advent of capitalism the idea of a ruling class disappeared. You know, because freedom...... Capitalism and freedom are inseparable in the minds of most conservatives. That denial has already manifested itself in this thread.

Where we disagree is in your assumption of my convictions. I understand why we have a ruling class and thus I have an understanding of how to eliminate it. I understand that the state is an integral part of the capitalist system of production and that its size and scope are directly linked with the development of capitalism. I do not expect the state to do anything other than perpetuate a class system and I place no trust in it.