CDZ A Proper Education

[Damaged Eagle]

Logical argumentation and identification of fallacious reasoning.

That seems, to me, like college level goals.

To some those are high school goals.

*****SMILE*****

 

[usmbguest5318]

what a proper education should be for children to grow up into responsible, independent and productive adults. ....

I will summarize what I think should be graduation requirements from high school:

• Four years of English, one of which is an AP English class passed with at least a B (not B-).
• Four years of mathematics culminating with at least calculus (with or without integration) -- at least one math or science class must be an AP class passed with at least a B (not B-)
  • First year: Algebra I (one semester); Geometry (one semester)
  • Second year: Algebra II/Precalculus (taken as one semester or whole year class); Statistics (one semester
  • Third year: Calculus; Statistics + first third of calculus
  • Four year: Math elective or remainder of calculus
• Two years of laboratory science to include one year of physics -- at least one math or science class must be an AP class passed with at least a B (not B-)
  
• One year of Latin, Greek or Classics survey + three years of one modern foreign language with the final modern language class taken at the honors or higher level.
  • Note: Classics survey is a course where students read Horace, Catullus, Cicero, Plato, Aristotle, and other classic writers' works. The readings for this course, and those for Latin and Greek, are chosen so as to complement to logic (see below). This class develops the student's knowledge of the authors' arguments and rhetorical styles. Students are also introduced to rhetorical criticism and communication analysis. The standard version of this class is best taken in one's freshman year. The honors version has Logic as a prerequisite.
• Two years of history (assumes courses run one semester): one year of non-U.S.and one year of U.S. History. One history class must be honors or AP.
• Two semesters of Visual/Performing Arts or one semester of honors/AP art or music theory
• Two semesters of Logic plus two semesters of another Philosophy course(s), or a Religion (comparative religion or what we used to call "A4" -- Argumentation -- Anselm, Aquinas and Atheism) course(s)
  • Logic Class
    • First semester: Topics include reasoning and its role in science and everyday life, with special attention to the development of a system of symbolic logic, probabilistic reasoning, and problems in decision theory. At the end of this semester, students should have a rudimentary awareness of the most common informal fallacies and their exceptions. One should also understand a few formal fallacies.
    • Second semester: Studies the development of logic from a structured standpoint (mathematically). Topics should include propositional and predicate calculus, consequence and deduction, truth and satisfaction, the Gödel completeness theorem, the Löwenheim-Skolem theorem, and applications to Boolean algebra, axiomatic theories, and the theory of models, time permitting. Upon completing this class, students will be adept at quickly recognizing rational flaws as well as having a universally applicable tool for well reasoned argumentative and empirical problem solving and analysis.
• One semester of Health Issues (assumes one semester course length)
• Principles of Macro and Micro Economics (one semester of each -- both must be passed with a B or higher)
• Personal finance and accounting. (Pass/fail online self-guided course; must be completed in the period of one academic year -- B- is the level of performance required to pass)
• Cumulative GPA minimum for high school graduation: 2.75
• Extracurriculars:
  • Required: one year of forensics
    • Students with profoundly restrictive mental disabilities are excused from this requirement, provided there aren't enough such students that they can form their own team.
  • Required: two years of team sports (intramural or interscholastic)
    • Students having physical disabilities that prevent game play must still take an active role on a sports team, albeit in alternative ways, such that their participation and contributions are someting on which the team nonetheless depends in order to perform at its optimum level given its members and their skills.

I also think schools should, for AP, honors and specifically required (see bold italics above) classes use the grading scale that I had when I was in school:

• A --> 93-100
• B --> 85-92
• C --> 77-84
• D --> 70-76
• F --> 69 and lower

I've predicated the scholastic outline above on the assumption that the child will matriculate to college in pursuit of a baccalaureate degree. Some of the courses, consequently, aren't essential for students pursuing a trade-oriented curriculum. I wouldn't swap out the math, science, history, econ, logic and personal finance requirements. Trade students can opt to take three rather than four years of English, however, they must then take AP English Language and Composition rather than having a choice between literature-comp or language-comp.

 

[Toronado3800]

what a proper education should be for children to grow up into responsible, independent and productive adults. ....

I will summarize what I think should be graduation requirements from high school:

• Four years of English, one of which is an AP English class passed with at least a B (not B-).
• Four years of mathematics culminating with at least calculus (with or without integration) -- at least one math or science class must be an AP class passed with at least a B (not B-)
  • First year: Algebra I (one semester); Geometry (one semester)
  • Second year: Algebra II/Precalculus (taken as one semester or whole year class); Statistics (one semester
  • Third year: Calculus; Statistics + first third of calculus
  • Four year: Math elective or remainder of calculus
• Two years of laboratory science to include one year of physics -- at least one math or science class must be an AP class passed with at least a B (not B-)
  
• One year of Latin, Greek or Classics survey + three years of one modern foreign language with the final modern language class taken at the honors or higher level.
  • Note: Classics survey is a course where students read Horace, Catullus, Cicero, Plato, Aristotle, and other classic writers' works. The readings for this course, and those for Latin and Greek, are chosen so as to complement to logic (see below). This class develops the student's knowledge of the authors' arguments and rhetorical styles. Students are also introduced to rhetorical criticism and communication analysis. The standard version of this class is best taken in one's freshman year. The honors version has Logic as a prerequisite.
• Two years of history (assumes courses run one semester): one year of non-U.S.and one year of U.S. History. One history class must be honors or AP.
• Two semesters of Visual/Performing Arts or one semester of honors/AP art or music theory
• Two semesters of Logic plus two semesters of another Philosophy course(s), or a Religion (comparative religion or what we used to call "A4" -- Argumentation -- Anselm, Aquinas and Atheism) course(s)
  • Logic Class
    • First semester: Topics include reasoning and its role in science and everyday life, with special attention to the development of a system of symbolic logic, probabilistic reasoning, and problems in decision theory. At the end of this semester, students should have a rudimentary awareness of the most common informal fallacies and their exceptions. One should also understand a few formal fallacies.
    • Second semester: Studies the development of logic from a structured standpoint (mathematically). Topics should include propositional and predicate calculus, consequence and deduction, truth and satisfaction, the Gödel completeness theorem, the Löwenheim-Skolem theorem, and applications to Boolean algebra, axiomatic theories, and the theory of models, time permitting. Upon completing this class, students will be adept at quickly recognizing rational flaws as well as having a universally applicable tool for well reasoned argumentative and empirical problem solving and analysis.
• One semester of Health Issues (assumes one semester course length)
• Principles of Macro and Micro Economics (one semester of each -- both must be passed with a B or higher)
• Personal finance and accounting. (Pass/fail online self-guided course; must be completed in the period of one academic year -- B- is the level of performance required to pass)
• Cumulative GPA minimum for high school graduation: 2.75
• Extracurriculars:
  • Required: one year of forensics
    • Students with profoundly restrictive mental disabilities are excused from this requirement, provided there aren't enough such students that they can form their own team.
  • Required: two years of team sports (intramural or interscholastic)
    • Students having physical disabilities that prevent game play must still take an active role on a sports team, albeit in alternative ways, such that their participation and contributions are someting on which the team nonetheless depends in order to perform at its optimum level given its members and their skills.

I also think schools should, for AP, honors and specifically required (see bold italics above) classes use the grading scale that I had when I was in school:

• A --> 93-100
• B --> 85-92
• C --> 77-84
• D --> 70-76
• F --> 69 and lower

I've predicated the scholastic outline above on the assumption that the child will matriculate to college in pursuit of a baccalaureate degree. Some of the courses, consequently, aren't essential for students pursuing a trade-oriented curriculum. I wouldn't swap out the math, science, history, econ, logic and personal finance requirements. Trade students can opt to take three rather than four years of English, however, they must then take AP English Language and Composition rather than having a choice between literature-comp or language-comp.

We disagree a bit but, believe did I add right that your list while comprehensive and challenging is just 5.125 classes a semester, if I added and divided correctly. That leaves time for other classes.

 

[usmbguest5318]

what a proper education should be for children to grow up into responsible, independent and productive adults. ....

I will summarize what I think should be graduation requirements from high school:

• Four years of English, one of which is an AP English class passed with at least a B (not B-).
• Four years of mathematics culminating with at least calculus (with or without integration) -- at least one math or science class must be an AP class passed with at least a B (not B-)
  • First year: Algebra I (one semester); Geometry (one semester)
  • Second year: Algebra II/Precalculus (taken as one semester or whole year class); Statistics (one semester
  • Third year: Calculus; Statistics + first third of calculus
  • Four year: Math elective or remainder of calculus
• Two years of laboratory science to include one year of physics -- at least one math or science class must be an AP class passed with at least a B (not B-)
  
• One year of Latin, Greek or Classics survey + three years of one modern foreign language with the final modern language class taken at the honors or higher level.
  • Note: Classics survey is a course where students read Horace, Catullus, Cicero, Plato, Aristotle, and other classic writers' works. The readings for this course, and those for Latin and Greek, are chosen so as to complement to logic (see below). This class develops the student's knowledge of the authors' arguments and rhetorical styles. Students are also introduced to rhetorical criticism and communication analysis. The standard version of this class is best taken in one's freshman year. The honors version has Logic as a prerequisite.
• Two years of history (assumes courses run one semester): one year of non-U.S.and one year of U.S. History. One history class must be honors or AP.
• Two semesters of Visual/Performing Arts or one semester of honors/AP art or music theory
• Two semesters of Logic plus two semesters of another Philosophy course(s), or a Religion (comparative religion or what we used to call "A4" -- Argumentation -- Anselm, Aquinas and Atheism) course(s)
  • Logic Class
    • First semester: Topics include reasoning and its role in science and everyday life, with special attention to the development of a system of symbolic logic, probabilistic reasoning, and problems in decision theory. At the end of this semester, students should have a rudimentary awareness of the most common informal fallacies and their exceptions. One should also understand a few formal fallacies.
    • Second semester: Studies the development of logic from a structured standpoint (mathematically). Topics should include propositional and predicate calculus, consequence and deduction, truth and satisfaction, the Gödel completeness theorem, the Löwenheim-Skolem theorem, and applications to Boolean algebra, axiomatic theories, and the theory of models, time permitting. Upon completing this class, students will be adept at quickly recognizing rational flaws as well as having a universally applicable tool for well reasoned argumentative and empirical problem solving and analysis.
• One semester of Health Issues (assumes one semester course length)
• Principles of Macro and Micro Economics (one semester of each -- both must be passed with a B or higher)
• Personal finance and accounting. (Pass/fail online self-guided course; must be completed in the period of one academic year -- B- is the level of performance required to pass)
• Cumulative GPA minimum for high school graduation: 2.75
• Extracurriculars:
  • Required: one year of forensics
    • Students with profoundly restrictive mental disabilities are excused from this requirement, provided there aren't enough such students that they can form their own team.
  • Required: two years of team sports (intramural or interscholastic)
    • Students having physical disabilities that prevent game play must still take an active role on a sports team, albeit in alternative ways, such that their participation and contributions are someting on which the team nonetheless depends in order to perform at its optimum level given its members and their skills.

I also think schools should, for AP, honors and specifically required (see bold italics above) classes use the grading scale that I had when I was in school:

• A --> 93-100
• B --> 85-92
• C --> 77-84
• D --> 70-76
• F --> 69 and lower

I've predicated the scholastic outline above on the assumption that the child will matriculate to college in pursuit of a baccalaureate degree. Some of the courses, consequently, aren't essential for students pursuing a trade-oriented curriculum. I wouldn't swap out the math, science, history, econ, logic and personal finance requirements. Trade students can opt to take three rather than four years of English, however, they must then take AP English Language and Composition rather than having a choice between literature-comp or language-comp.

We disagree a bit but, believe did I add right that your list while comprehensive and challenging is just 5.125 classes a semester, if I added and divided correctly. That leaves time for other classes.

I didn't add up how many classes per semester it works out to be, mainly because it's the baseline model I followed when I went to high school and I had 7 classes a day and there are things I didn't include from the actual course load I took back then, so I knew the model I proposed above is doable. It's roughly the model my kids followed too, and they also had time for other things. I and they finished high school with >4.0 GPAs, so I know too the requirements in the model above aren't nearly as challenging as they may seem.


I'll have to look at your post(s) to see where we differ.....

 

[boedicca]

what a proper education should be for children to grow up into responsible, independent and productive adults. ....

I will summarize what I think should be graduation requirements from high school:

• Four years of English, one of which is an AP English class passed with at least a B (not B-).
• Four years of mathematics culminating with at least calculus (with or without integration) -- at least one math or science class must be an AP class passed with at least a B (not B-)
  • First year: Algebra I (one semester); Geometry (one semester)
  • Second year: Algebra II/Precalculus (taken as one semester or whole year class); Statistics (one semester
  • Third year: Calculus; Statistics + first third of calculus
  • Four year: Math elective or remainder of calculus
• Two years of laboratory science to include one year of physics -- at least one math or science class must be an AP class passed with at least a B (not B-)
  
• One year of Latin, Greek or Classics survey + three years of one modern foreign language with the final modern language class taken at the honors or higher level.
  • Note: Classics survey is a course where students read Horace, Catullus, Cicero, Plato, Aristotle, and other classic writers' works. The readings for this course, and those for Latin and Greek, are chosen so as to complement to logic (see below). This class develops the student's knowledge of the authors' arguments and rhetorical styles. Students are also introduced to rhetorical criticism and communication analysis. The standard version of this class is best taken in one's freshman year. The honors version has Logic as a prerequisite.
• Two years of history (assumes courses run one semester): one year of non-U.S.and one year of U.S. History. One history class must be honors or AP.
• Two semesters of Visual/Performing Arts or one semester of honors/AP art or music theory
• Two semesters of Logic plus two semesters of another Philosophy course(s), or a Religion (comparative religion or what we used to call "A4" -- Argumentation -- Anselm, Aquinas and Atheism) course(s)
  • Logic Class
    • First semester: Topics include reasoning and its role in science and everyday life, with special attention to the development of a system of symbolic logic, probabilistic reasoning, and problems in decision theory. At the end of this semester, students should have a rudimentary awareness of the most common informal fallacies and their exceptions. One should also understand a few formal fallacies.
    • Second semester: Studies the development of logic from a structured standpoint (mathematically). Topics should include propositional and predicate calculus, consequence and deduction, truth and satisfaction, the Gödel completeness theorem, the Löwenheim-Skolem theorem, and applications to Boolean algebra, axiomatic theories, and the theory of models, time permitting. Upon completing this class, students will be adept at quickly recognizing rational flaws as well as having a universally applicable tool for well reasoned argumentative and empirical problem solving and analysis.
• One semester of Health Issues (assumes one semester course length)
• Principles of Macro and Micro Economics (one semester of each -- both must be passed with a B or higher)
• Personal finance and accounting. (Pass/fail online self-guided course; must be completed in the period of one academic year -- B- is the level of performance required to pass)
• Cumulative GPA minimum for high school graduation: 2.75
• Extracurriculars:
  • Required: one year of forensics
    • Students with profoundly restrictive mental disabilities are excused from this requirement, provided there aren't enough such students that they can form their own team.
  • Required: two years of team sports (intramural or interscholastic)
    • Students having physical disabilities that prevent game play must still take an active role on a sports team, albeit in alternative ways, such that their participation and contributions are someting on which the team nonetheless depends in order to perform at its optimum level given its members and their skills.

I also think schools should, for AP, honors and specifically required (see bold italics above) classes use the grading scale that I had when I was in school:

• A --> 93-100
• B --> 85-92
• C --> 77-84
• D --> 70-76
• F --> 69 and lower

I've predicated the scholastic outline above on the assumption that the child will matriculate to college in pursuit of a baccalaureate degree. Some of the courses, consequently, aren't essential for students pursuing a trade-oriented curriculum. I wouldn't swap out the math, science, history, econ, logic and personal finance requirements. Trade students can opt to take three rather than four years of English, however, they must then take AP English Language and Composition rather than having a choice between literature-comp or language-comp.

This is a good list. Thank you. The changes I would make are:

- Civics. Students should learn how our system of government works.
- Shop and Home Ec classes as substitutes for arts classes. Where as an appreciation for art and music does enrich one's life, if a student would prefer to learn how to make and fix things, then I'd include this.
- Extracurriculars. I'd include music, art, drama, debate and other non-sports activities in this category.

 

[usmbguest5318]

what a proper education should be for children to grow up into responsible, independent and productive adults. ....

I will summarize what I think should be graduation requirements from high school:

• Four years of English, one of which is an AP English class passed with at least a B (not B-).
• Four years of mathematics culminating with at least calculus (with or without integration) -- at least one math or science class must be an AP class passed with at least a B (not B-)
  • First year: Algebra I (one semester); Geometry (one semester)
  • Second year: Algebra II/Precalculus (taken as one semester or whole year class); Statistics (one semester
  • Third year: Calculus; Statistics + first third of calculus
  • Four year: Math elective or remainder of calculus
• Two years of laboratory science to include one year of physics -- at least one math or science class must be an AP class passed with at least a B (not B-)
  
• One year of Latin, Greek or Classics survey + three years of one modern foreign language with the final modern language class taken at the honors or higher level.
  • Note: Classics survey is a course where students read Horace, Catullus, Cicero, Plato, Aristotle, and other classic writers' works. The readings for this course, and those for Latin and Greek, are chosen so as to complement to logic (see below). This class develops the student's knowledge of the authors' arguments and rhetorical styles. Students are also introduced to rhetorical criticism and communication analysis. The standard version of this class is best taken in one's freshman year. The honors version has Logic as a prerequisite.
• Two years of history (assumes courses run one semester): one year of non-U.S.and one year of U.S. History. One history class must be honors or AP.
• Two semesters of Visual/Performing Arts or one semester of honors/AP art or music theory
• Two semesters of Logic plus two semesters of another Philosophy course(s), or a Religion (comparative religion or what we used to call "A4" -- Argumentation -- Anselm, Aquinas and Atheism) course(s)
  • Logic Class
    • First semester: Topics include reasoning and its role in science and everyday life, with special attention to the development of a system of symbolic logic, probabilistic reasoning, and problems in decision theory. At the end of this semester, students should have a rudimentary awareness of the most common informal fallacies and their exceptions. One should also understand a few formal fallacies.
    • Second semester: Studies the development of logic from a structured standpoint (mathematically). Topics should include propositional and predicate calculus, consequence and deduction, truth and satisfaction, the Gödel completeness theorem, the Löwenheim-Skolem theorem, and applications to Boolean algebra, axiomatic theories, and the theory of models, time permitting. Upon completing this class, students will be adept at quickly recognizing rational flaws as well as having a universally applicable tool for well reasoned argumentative and empirical problem solving and analysis.
• One semester of Health Issues (assumes one semester course length)
• Principles of Macro and Micro Economics (one semester of each -- both must be passed with a B or higher)
• Personal finance and accounting. (Pass/fail online self-guided course; must be completed in the period of one academic year -- B- is the level of performance required to pass)
• Cumulative GPA minimum for high school graduation: 2.75
• Extracurriculars:
  • Required: one year of forensics
    • Students with profoundly restrictive mental disabilities are excused from this requirement, provided there aren't enough such students that they can form their own team.
  • Required: two years of team sports (intramural or interscholastic)
    • Students having physical disabilities that prevent game play must still take an active role on a sports team, albeit in alternative ways, such that their participation and contributions are someting on which the team nonetheless depends in order to perform at its optimum level given its members and their skills.

I also think schools should, for AP, honors and specifically required (see bold italics above) classes use the grading scale that I had when I was in school:

• A --> 93-100
• B --> 85-92
• C --> 77-84
• D --> 70-76
• F --> 69 and lower

I've predicated the scholastic outline above on the assumption that the child will matriculate to college in pursuit of a baccalaureate degree. Some of the courses, consequently, aren't essential for students pursuing a trade-oriented curriculum. I wouldn't swap out the math, science, history, econ, logic and personal finance requirements. Trade students can opt to take three rather than four years of English, however, they must then take AP English Language and Composition rather than having a choice between literature-comp or language-comp.

This is a good list. Thank you. The changes I would make are:

- Civics. Students should learn how our system of government works.
- Shop and Home Ec classes as substitutes for arts classes. Where as an appreciation for art and music does enrich one's life, if a student would prefer to learn how to make and fix things, then I'd include this.
- Extracurriculars. I'd include music, art, drama, debate and other non-sports activities in this category.

This is a good list. Thank you.

Thank you, and you're welcome.

- Civics. Students should learn how our system of government works.

No disagreement from me; however, that content, in my own experience, is covered in U.S. history courses.

- Shop and Home Ec classes as substitutes for arts classes. Where as an appreciation for art and music does enrich one's life, if a student would prefer to learn how to make and fix things, then I'd include this.

Shop and Home Ec? Are you merely using those terms in a very generic sense as a synonym for "vocational/trade training," or do you literally mean those two classes and not the other vocational classes students might take.

- Shop and Home Ec classes as substitutes for arts classes. Where as an appreciation for art and music does enrich one's life, if a student would prefer to learn how to make and fix things, then I'd include this.
- Extracurriculars. I'd include music, art, drama, debate and other non-sports activities in this category.

As go extracurriculars, I listed only the ones in which I would require students to participate in order to graduate from high school. Band (but not music theory), drama, cheerleading, and so on are also extracurriculars, at least they are in college preparatory programs.

Debate:
I listed debate as a required extracurricular and noted the type of debate participation required. Did you not see it?

 

[oldsoul]

P.S.
It's ironic that your ID is "oldschool," yet the old school way of answering questions -- comprehensively -- seems, from your comment at least, to be something with which you take exception. Moreover, you have expressed the notion that someone who endeavors to do so has "something to prove." Odd.

Ummm, this must be for someone else, as my Id is OLDSOUL. Seems someone as "educated" as you would have noticed that.

 

[Manonthestreet]

what a proper education should be for children to grow up into responsible, independent and productive adults. ....

I will summarize what I think should be graduation requirements from high school:

• Four years of English, one of which is an AP English class passed with at least a B (not B-).
• Four years of mathematics culminating with at least calculus (with or without integration) -- at least one math or science class must be an AP class passed with at least a B (not B-)
  • First year: Algebra I (one semester); Geometry (one semester)
  • Second year: Algebra II/Precalculus (taken as one semester or whole year class); Statistics (one semester
  • Third year: Calculus; Statistics + first third of calculus
  • Four year: Math elective or remainder of calculus
• Two years of laboratory science to include one year of physics -- at least one math or science class must be an AP class passed with at least a B (not B-)
  
• One year of Latin, Greek or Classics survey + three years of one modern foreign language with the final modern language class taken at the honors or higher level.
  • Note: Classics survey is a course where students read Horace, Catullus, Cicero, Plato, Aristotle, and other classic writers' works. The readings for this course, and those for Latin and Greek, are chosen so as to complement to logic (see below). This class develops the student's knowledge of the authors' arguments and rhetorical styles. Students are also introduced to rhetorical criticism and communication analysis. The standard version of this class is best taken in one's freshman year. The honors version has Logic as a prerequisite.
• Two years of history (assumes courses run one semester): one year of non-U.S.and one year of U.S. History. One history class must be honors or AP.
• Two semesters of Visual/Performing Arts or one semester of honors/AP art or music theory
• Two semesters of Logic plus two semesters of another Philosophy course(s), or a Religion (comparative religion or what we used to call "A4" -- Argumentation -- Anselm, Aquinas and Atheism) course(s)
  • Logic Class
    • First semester: Topics include reasoning and its role in science and everyday life, with special attention to the development of a system of symbolic logic, probabilistic reasoning, and problems in decision theory. At the end of this semester, students should have a rudimentary awareness of the most common informal fallacies and their exceptions. One should also understand a few formal fallacies.
    • Second semester: Studies the development of logic from a structured standpoint (mathematically). Topics should include propositional and predicate calculus, consequence and deduction, truth and satisfaction, the Gödel completeness theorem, the Löwenheim-Skolem theorem, and applications to Boolean algebra, axiomatic theories, and the theory of models, time permitting. Upon completing this class, students will be adept at quickly recognizing rational flaws as well as having a universally applicable tool for well reasoned argumentative and empirical problem solving and analysis.
• One semester of Health Issues (assumes one semester course length)
• Principles of Macro and Micro Economics (one semester of each -- both must be passed with a B or higher)
• Personal finance and accounting. (Pass/fail online self-guided course; must be completed in the period of one academic year -- B- is the level of performance required to pass)
• Cumulative GPA minimum for high school graduation: 2.75
• Extracurriculars:
  • Required: one year of forensics
    • Students with profoundly restrictive mental disabilities are excused from this requirement, provided there aren't enough such students that they can form their own team.
  • Required: two years of team sports (intramural or interscholastic)
    • Students having physical disabilities that prevent game play must still take an active role on a sports team, albeit in alternative ways, such that their participation and contributions are someting on which the team nonetheless depends in order to perform at its optimum level given its members and their skills.

I also think schools should, for AP, honors and specifically required (see bold italics above) classes use the grading scale that I had when I was in school:

• A --> 93-100
• B --> 85-92
• C --> 77-84
• D --> 70-76
• F --> 69 and lower

I've predicated the scholastic outline above on the assumption that the child will matriculate to college in pursuit of a baccalaureate degree. Some of the courses, consequently, aren't essential for students pursuing a trade-oriented curriculum. I wouldn't swap out the math, science, history, econ, logic and personal finance requirements. Trade students can opt to take three rather than four years of English, however, they must then take AP English Language and Composition rather than having a choice between literature-comp or language-comp.

This is a good list. Thank you. The changes I would make are:

- Civics. Students should learn how our system of government works.
- Shop and Home Ec classes as substitutes for arts classes. Where as an appreciation for art and music does enrich one's life, if a student would prefer to learn how to make and fix things, then I'd include this.
- Extracurriculars. I'd include music, art, drama, debate and other non-sports activities in this category.

Isnt that what education used to be.......I would keep the math for those not going to college.....complex problem solving is useful everywhere, especially if you want to move up. I would eliminate ipad education.....go back to books, prevents schools from hiding things from parents. All tests would be written.

 

[usmbguest5318]

P.S.
It's ironic that your ID is "oldschool," yet the old school way of answering questions -- comprehensively -- seems, from your comment at least, to be something with which you take exception. Moreover, you have expressed the notion that someone who endeavors to do so has "something to prove." Odd.

Ummm, this must be for someone else, as my Id is OLDSOUL. Seems someone as "educated" as you would have noticed that.

It was a mistake on my part.

 

[usmbguest5318]

All tests would be written.

I noticed recently that some classes offer only online tests, quizzes and homework assignments. I asked my kids whether when they get a question wrong the software allows them to review their answer and the question. They said sometimes yes and other times no.

I'm not "anti digital," so to speak, but I believe firmly that students must be able to freely review their work after it's been graded so they can identify what topics they need to study more so they don't make the same mistakes later. That's especially important in classes that have cumulative final exams, all the more so if the final comprises, as it did in the classes I taught, 35% or more of the student's final grade.

(Note: I weighted my finals at 45% because I was unwilling to have a student do so well on the compartmentalized tests/quizzes given during the term that they could fail the final, or even not need to take it, and still earn an A or B.)

 

[pillars]

Logical argumentation and identification of fallacious reasoning.

That seems, to me, like college level goals.

I had that class in high school and then again in college.

 

[boedicca]

what a proper education should be for children to grow up into responsible, independent and productive adults. ....

I will summarize what I think should be graduation requirements from high school:

• Four years of English, one of which is an AP English class passed with at least a B (not B-).
• Four years of mathematics culminating with at least calculus (with or without integration) -- at least one math or science class must be an AP class passed with at least a B (not B-)
  • First year: Algebra I (one semester); Geometry (one semester)
  • Second year: Algebra II/Precalculus (taken as one semester or whole year class); Statistics (one semester
  • Third year: Calculus; Statistics + first third of calculus
  • Four year: Math elective or remainder of calculus
• Two years of laboratory science to include one year of physics -- at least one math or science class must be an AP class passed with at least a B (not B-)
  
• One year of Latin, Greek or Classics survey + three years of one modern foreign language with the final modern language class taken at the honors or higher level.
  • Note: Classics survey is a course where students read Horace, Catullus, Cicero, Plato, Aristotle, and other classic writers' works. The readings for this course, and those for Latin and Greek, are chosen so as to complement to logic (see below). This class develops the student's knowledge of the authors' arguments and rhetorical styles. Students are also introduced to rhetorical criticism and communication analysis. The standard version of this class is best taken in one's freshman year. The honors version has Logic as a prerequisite.
• Two years of history (assumes courses run one semester): one year of non-U.S.and one year of U.S. History. One history class must be honors or AP.
• Two semesters of Visual/Performing Arts or one semester of honors/AP art or music theory
• Two semesters of Logic plus two semesters of another Philosophy course(s), or a Religion (comparative religion or what we used to call "A4" -- Argumentation -- Anselm, Aquinas and Atheism) course(s)
  • Logic Class
    • First semester: Topics include reasoning and its role in science and everyday life, with special attention to the development of a system of symbolic logic, probabilistic reasoning, and problems in decision theory. At the end of this semester, students should have a rudimentary awareness of the most common informal fallacies and their exceptions. One should also understand a few formal fallacies.
    • Second semester: Studies the development of logic from a structured standpoint (mathematically). Topics should include propositional and predicate calculus, consequence and deduction, truth and satisfaction, the Gödel completeness theorem, the Löwenheim-Skolem theorem, and applications to Boolean algebra, axiomatic theories, and the theory of models, time permitting. Upon completing this class, students will be adept at quickly recognizing rational flaws as well as having a universally applicable tool for well reasoned argumentative and empirical problem solving and analysis.
• One semester of Health Issues (assumes one semester course length)
• Principles of Macro and Micro Economics (one semester of each -- both must be passed with a B or higher)
• Personal finance and accounting. (Pass/fail online self-guided course; must be completed in the period of one academic year -- B- is the level of performance required to pass)
• Cumulative GPA minimum for high school graduation: 2.75
• Extracurriculars:
  • Required: one year of forensics
    • Students with profoundly restrictive mental disabilities are excused from this requirement, provided there aren't enough such students that they can form their own team.
  • Required: two years of team sports (intramural or interscholastic)
    • Students having physical disabilities that prevent game play must still take an active role on a sports team, albeit in alternative ways, such that their participation and contributions are someting on which the team nonetheless depends in order to perform at its optimum level given its members and their skills.

I also think schools should, for AP, honors and specifically required (see bold italics above) classes use the grading scale that I had when I was in school:

• A --> 93-100
• B --> 85-92
• C --> 77-84
• D --> 70-76
• F --> 69 and lower

I've predicated the scholastic outline above on the assumption that the child will matriculate to college in pursuit of a baccalaureate degree. Some of the courses, consequently, aren't essential for students pursuing a trade-oriented curriculum. I wouldn't swap out the math, science, history, econ, logic and personal finance requirements. Trade students can opt to take three rather than four years of English, however, they must then take AP English Language and Composition rather than having a choice between literature-comp or language-comp.

This is a good list. Thank you. The changes I would make are:

- Civics. Students should learn how our system of government works.
- Shop and Home Ec classes as substitutes for arts classes. Where as an appreciation for art and music does enrich one's life, if a student would prefer to learn how to make and fix things, then I'd include this.
- Extracurriculars. I'd include music, art, drama, debate and other non-sports activities in this category.

This is a good list. Thank you.

Thank you, and you're welcome.

- Civics. Students should learn how our system of government works.

No disagreement from me; however, that content, in my own experience, is covered in U.S. history courses.

- Shop and Home Ec classes as substitutes for arts classes. Where as an appreciation for art and music does enrich one's life, if a student would prefer to learn how to make and fix things, then I'd include this.

Shop and Home Ec? Are you merely using those terms in a very generic sense as a synonym for "vocational/trade training," or do you literally mean those two classes and not the other vocational classes students might take.

- Shop and Home Ec classes as substitutes for arts classes. Where as an appreciation for art and music does enrich one's life, if a student would prefer to learn how to make and fix things, then I'd include this.
- Extracurriculars. I'd include music, art, drama, debate and other non-sports activities in this category.

As go extracurriculars, I listed only the ones in which I would require students to participate in order to graduate from high school. Band (but not music theory), drama, cheerleading, and so on are also extracurriculars, at least they are in college preparatory programs.

Debate:
I listed debate as a required extracurricular and noted the type of debate participation required. Did you not see it?

Ah, didn't catch forensics...not the standard way we describe Debate Club in the U.S.

 

[usmbguest5318]

what a proper education should be for children to grow up into responsible, independent and productive adults. ....

I will summarize what I think should be graduation requirements from high school:

• Four years of English, one of which is an AP English class passed with at least a B (not B-).
• Four years of mathematics culminating with at least calculus (with or without integration) -- at least one math or science class must be an AP class passed with at least a B (not B-)
  • First year: Algebra I (one semester); Geometry (one semester)
  • Second year: Algebra II/Precalculus (taken as one semester or whole year class); Statistics (one semester
  • Third year: Calculus; Statistics + first third of calculus
  • Four year: Math elective or remainder of calculus
• Two years of laboratory science to include one year of physics -- at least one math or science class must be an AP class passed with at least a B (not B-)
  
• One year of Latin, Greek or Classics survey + three years of one modern foreign language with the final modern language class taken at the honors or higher level.
  • Note: Classics survey is a course where students read Horace, Catullus, Cicero, Plato, Aristotle, and other classic writers' works. The readings for this course, and those for Latin and Greek, are chosen so as to complement to logic (see below). This class develops the student's knowledge of the authors' arguments and rhetorical styles. Students are also introduced to rhetorical criticism and communication analysis. The standard version of this class is best taken in one's freshman year. The honors version has Logic as a prerequisite.
• Two years of history (assumes courses run one semester): one year of non-U.S.and one year of U.S. History. One history class must be honors or AP.
• Two semesters of Visual/Performing Arts or one semester of honors/AP art or music theory
• Two semesters of Logic plus two semesters of another Philosophy course(s), or a Religion (comparative religion or what we used to call "A4" -- Argumentation -- Anselm, Aquinas and Atheism) course(s)
  • Logic Class
    • First semester: Topics include reasoning and its role in science and everyday life, with special attention to the development of a system of symbolic logic, probabilistic reasoning, and problems in decision theory. At the end of this semester, students should have a rudimentary awareness of the most common informal fallacies and their exceptions. One should also understand a few formal fallacies.
    • Second semester: Studies the development of logic from a structured standpoint (mathematically). Topics should include propositional and predicate calculus, consequence and deduction, truth and satisfaction, the Gödel completeness theorem, the Löwenheim-Skolem theorem, and applications to Boolean algebra, axiomatic theories, and the theory of models, time permitting. Upon completing this class, students will be adept at quickly recognizing rational flaws as well as having a universally applicable tool for well reasoned argumentative and empirical problem solving and analysis.
• One semester of Health Issues (assumes one semester course length)
• Principles of Macro and Micro Economics (one semester of each -- both must be passed with a B or higher)
• Personal finance and accounting. (Pass/fail online self-guided course; must be completed in the period of one academic year -- B- is the level of performance required to pass)
• Cumulative GPA minimum for high school graduation: 2.75
• Extracurriculars:
  • Required: one year of forensics
    • Students with profoundly restrictive mental disabilities are excused from this requirement, provided there aren't enough such students that they can form their own team.
  • Required: two years of team sports (intramural or interscholastic)
    • Students having physical disabilities that prevent game play must still take an active role on a sports team, albeit in alternative ways, such that their participation and contributions are someting on which the team nonetheless depends in order to perform at its optimum level given its members and their skills.

I also think schools should, for AP, honors and specifically required (see bold italics above) classes use the grading scale that I had when I was in school:

• A --> 93-100
• B --> 85-92
• C --> 77-84
• D --> 70-76
• F --> 69 and lower

I've predicated the scholastic outline above on the assumption that the child will matriculate to college in pursuit of a baccalaureate degree. Some of the courses, consequently, aren't essential for students pursuing a trade-oriented curriculum. I wouldn't swap out the math, science, history, econ, logic and personal finance requirements. Trade students can opt to take three rather than four years of English, however, they must then take AP English Language and Composition rather than having a choice between literature-comp or language-comp.

This is a good list. Thank you. The changes I would make are:

- Civics. Students should learn how our system of government works.
- Shop and Home Ec classes as substitutes for arts classes. Where as an appreciation for art and music does enrich one's life, if a student would prefer to learn how to make and fix things, then I'd include this.
- Extracurriculars. I'd include music, art, drama, debate and other non-sports activities in this category.

This is a good list. Thank you.

Thank you, and you're welcome.

- Civics. Students should learn how our system of government works.

No disagreement from me; however, that content, in my own experience, is covered in U.S. history courses.

- Shop and Home Ec classes as substitutes for arts classes. Where as an appreciation for art and music does enrich one's life, if a student would prefer to learn how to make and fix things, then I'd include this.

Shop and Home Ec? Are you merely using those terms in a very generic sense as a synonym for "vocational/trade training," or do you literally mean those two classes and not the other vocational classes students might take.

- Shop and Home Ec classes as substitutes for arts classes. Where as an appreciation for art and music does enrich one's life, if a student would prefer to learn how to make and fix things, then I'd include this.
- Extracurriculars. I'd include music, art, drama, debate and other non-sports activities in this category.

As go extracurriculars, I listed only the ones in which I would require students to participate in order to graduate from high school. Band (but not music theory), drama, cheerleading, and so on are also extracurriculars, at least they are in college preparatory programs.

Debate:
I listed debate as a required extracurricular and noted the type of debate participation required. Did you not see it?

Ah, didn't catch forensics...not the standard way we describe Debate Club in the U.S.

Ah, didn't catch forensics...

NP

not the standard way we describe Debate Club in the U.S.

What? Organizations supporting high school competition | American Forensic Association

• Forensics Club / Overview
  
• Poolesville HS- Index
  
• What Is Forensic Competition?
  
• West High FORENSICS | West High School
  
• Forensics Club - Fiona Frost
  
• Forensics - Hudson Schools
  
• Forensics - Slinger School District
  
• Competition Clubs / Debate & Forensics Teams

You should probably travel or Google more. Take your pick

 

[Unkotare]

Ah, "you should travel more." The pretentious motto.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Ah, "you should travel more." The pretentious motto.

What is pretentious about that? Are you only able to construe comments in the most literal of ways?

If none lives in a narrowly defined and pretty homogeneous "world," just how much will one encounter?

BTW, the comment was:

You should probably travel or Google more. Take your pick.