A Necessity, NOT A Luxury

[Sonny Clark]

What's wrong with this option?:

My heart is failing which means it's time for me to die. Why has it become imperative that I be kept alive at all costs? Is it fair for me to burden my family with giant medical costs just so I can add a few more years of life which would likely be a low quality of life?

If that were the decision, we'd be more rational about it. But it's not. The decision is whether or not to it's fair to burden some faceless, socialized, health-care cost sharing scheme. Faced with that kind of decision, there's every incentive to go for broke.

I understand what you're saying here. But, still, the problem is one of rising cost, and individuals need some form of assistance in order to get the necessary treatment they need when it comes to proper health care. Regardless of whether we have choices or not, regardless of whether those choices include government requirements, and regardless of insurance or lack of insurance, we still need help paying for proper health care. It's not a choice of paying or allowing others to subsidize it, we all need some form of help paying for health care.

Again, I have to ask you to check the sanity of such a statement. If we all need help, who's doing the "helping"?

There's a lot of sanity in the statement. It's factual and a truism. The help is coming from taxpayers, charities, trust funds, family members, and from debt forgiveness. Examples: Medicare, Medicaid, trust funds such as St. Jude's Children Hospital, and in some cases, debt forgiveness which turns into tax write-offs. Just common sense and simple logic.

No, there's not. If the average person can't afford basic health care, there's something seriously wrong. Something socializing costs isn't going to solve.

FYI - The average person can NOT afford basic health care. I just had an MRI that cost over $4,000. My prescriptions would cost a lot of money each month without insurance covering 95% of the cost. Can you imagine what the expense it would be for a family of four just to have an annual check-up? Do you realize what lab work cost? Do you know what an average doctor visit cost? The average person is doing well just to pay mortgage ( rent ), food, transportation, utilities, clothing, and insurance on their home and auto. Most people do not have a nest egg to draw from. People aren't making the money they use to make. The cost of living has gone up. Employers are paying less benefits for employees. A lot of college kids have enormous student loan debt. Seniors have lost equity in their homes, and some have lost part of their pensions due to mismanagement of the funds by unions and cities. We are not a wealthy citizenry. We are not a self-supporting people, nor a self-supporting nation. Proper health care is an enormous cost. At some point, almost everyone needs some form of assistance. Again, common sense and simple logic.

Again, I think we have to stop and think about the basic assumptions at work here. How are you defining 'basic health care'? I'd argue that, rather than picking some arbitrary minimum of health care, and then whining because everyone can't afford it, that it makes more sense to establish our idea of basic health care based on what most people can afford. Our expectations need to match reality, and currently, they don't.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I don't recall using the term "basic health care". Is there such a thing as "basic health care"? Health care is whatever is required to make a patient as healthy as possible. Different people see doctors for different reasons. Different people are admitted to a hospital for different reasons. Lab tests are done for different reasons. X-Rays and MRI's are done for different reasons. Prescriptions are written for different patients for different reasons. So, what is "basic health care"? There are many reasons why someone gets treatment and follow-up attention. I don't believe that I've ever used the term "basic health care".

 

[Sonny Clark]

What's wrong with this option?:

My heart is failing which means it's time for me to die. Why has it become imperative that I be kept alive at all costs? Is it fair for me to burden my family with giant medical costs just so I can add a few more years of life which would likely be a low quality of life?

If that were the decision, we'd be more rational about it. But it's not. The decision is whether or not to it's fair to burden some faceless, socialized, health-care cost sharing scheme. Faced with that kind of decision, there's every incentive to go for broke.

Again, I have to ask you to check the sanity of such a statement. If we all need help, who's doing the "helping"?

There's a lot of sanity in the statement. It's factual and a truism. The help is coming from taxpayers, charities, trust funds, family members, and from debt forgiveness. Examples: Medicare, Medicaid, trust funds such as St. Jude's Children Hospital, and in some cases, debt forgiveness which turns into tax write-offs. Just common sense and simple logic.

No, there's not. If the average person can't afford basic health care, there's something seriously wrong. Something socializing costs isn't going to solve.

FYI - The average person can NOT afford basic health care. I just had an MRI that cost over $4,000. My prescriptions would cost a lot of money each month without insurance covering 95% of the cost. Can you imagine what the expense it would be for a family of four just to have an annual check-up? Do you realize what lab work cost? Do you know what an average doctor visit cost? The average person is doing well just to pay mortgage ( rent ), food, transportation, utilities, clothing, and insurance on their home and auto. Most people do not have a nest egg to draw from. People aren't making the money they use to make. The cost of living has gone up. Employers are paying less benefits for employees. A lot of college kids have enormous student loan debt. Seniors have lost equity in their homes, and some have lost part of their pensions due to mismanagement of the funds by unions and cities. We are not a wealthy citizenry. We are not a self-supporting people, nor a self-supporting nation. Proper health care is an enormous cost. At some point, almost everyone needs some form of assistance. Again, common sense and simple logic.

Again, I think we have to stop and think about the basic assumptions at work here. How are you defining 'basic health care'? I'd argue that, rather than picking some arbitrary minimum of health care, and then whining because everyone can't afford it, that it makes more sense to establish our idea of basic health care based on what most people can afford. Our expectations need to match reality, and currently, they don't.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I don't recall using the term "basic health care". Is there such a thing as "basic health care"? Health care is whatever is required to make a patient as healthy as possible. Different people see doctors for different reasons. Different people are admitted to a hospital for different reasons. Lab tests are done for different reasons. X-Rays and MRI's are done for different reasons. Prescriptions are written for different patients for different reasons. So, what is "basic health care"? There are many reasons why someone gets treatment and follow-up attention. I don't believe that I've ever used the term "basic health care".

*** CORRECTION ******* Yes, I did say "basic health care". I'm sorry. I meant to say "proper health care". Please ignore where I said "basic health care". I meant "proper health care". My bad. A slip on my part. Sorry.

 

[dblack]

What's wrong with this option?:

My heart is failing which means it's time for me to die. Why has it become imperative that I be kept alive at all costs? Is it fair for me to burden my family with giant medical costs just so I can add a few more years of life which would likely be a low quality of life?

If that were the decision, we'd be more rational about it. But it's not. The decision is whether or not to it's fair to burden some faceless, socialized, health-care cost sharing scheme. Faced with that kind of decision, there's every incentive to go for broke.

There's a lot of sanity in the statement. It's factual and a truism. The help is coming from taxpayers, charities, trust funds, family members, and from debt forgiveness. Examples: Medicare, Medicaid, trust funds such as St. Jude's Children Hospital, and in some cases, debt forgiveness which turns into tax write-offs. Just common sense and simple logic.

No, there's not. If the average person can't afford basic health care, there's something seriously wrong. Something socializing costs isn't going to solve.

FYI - The average person can NOT afford basic health care. I just had an MRI that cost over $4,000. My prescriptions would cost a lot of money each month without insurance covering 95% of the cost. Can you imagine what the expense it would be for a family of four just to have an annual check-up? Do you realize what lab work cost? Do you know what an average doctor visit cost? The average person is doing well just to pay mortgage ( rent ), food, transportation, utilities, clothing, and insurance on their home and auto. Most people do not have a nest egg to draw from. People aren't making the money they use to make. The cost of living has gone up. Employers are paying less benefits for employees. A lot of college kids have enormous student loan debt. Seniors have lost equity in their homes, and some have lost part of their pensions due to mismanagement of the funds by unions and cities. We are not a wealthy citizenry. We are not a self-supporting people, nor a self-supporting nation. Proper health care is an enormous cost. At some point, almost everyone needs some form of assistance. Again, common sense and simple logic.

Again, I think we have to stop and think about the basic assumptions at work here. How are you defining 'basic health care'? I'd argue that, rather than picking some arbitrary minimum of health care, and then whining because everyone can't afford it, that it makes more sense to establish our idea of basic health care based on what most people can afford. Our expectations need to match reality, and currently, they don't.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I don't recall using the term "basic health care". Is there such a thing as "basic health care"? Health care is whatever is required to make a patient as healthy as possible. Different people see doctors for different reasons. Different people are admitted to a hospital for different reasons. Lab tests are done for different reasons. X-Rays and MRI's are done for different reasons. Prescriptions are written for different patients for different reasons. So, what is "basic health care"? There are many reasons why someone gets treatment and follow-up attention. I don't believe that I've ever used the term "basic health care".

*** CORRECTION ******* Yes, I did say "basic health care". I'm sorry. I meant to say "proper health care". Please ignore where I said "basic health care". I meant "proper health care". My bad. A slip on my part. Sorry.

What's the difference?

 

[Sonny Clark]

If that were the decision, we'd be more rational about it. But it's not. The decision is whether or not to it's fair to burden some faceless, socialized, health-care cost sharing scheme. Faced with that kind of decision, there's every incentive to go for broke.
No, there's not. If the average person can't afford basic health care, there's something seriously wrong. Something socializing costs isn't going to solve.

FYI - The average person can NOT afford basic health care. I just had an MRI that cost over $4,000. My prescriptions would cost a lot of money each month without insurance covering 95% of the cost. Can you imagine what the expense it would be for a family of four just to have an annual check-up? Do you realize what lab work cost? Do you know what an average doctor visit cost? The average person is doing well just to pay mortgage ( rent ), food, transportation, utilities, clothing, and insurance on their home and auto. Most people do not have a nest egg to draw from. People aren't making the money they use to make. The cost of living has gone up. Employers are paying less benefits for employees. A lot of college kids have enormous student loan debt. Seniors have lost equity in their homes, and some have lost part of their pensions due to mismanagement of the funds by unions and cities. We are not a wealthy citizenry. We are not a self-supporting people, nor a self-supporting nation. Proper health care is an enormous cost. At some point, almost everyone needs some form of assistance. Again, common sense and simple logic.

Again, I think we have to stop and think about the basic assumptions at work here. How are you defining 'basic health care'? I'd argue that, rather than picking some arbitrary minimum of health care, and then whining because everyone can't afford it, that it makes more sense to establish our idea of basic health care based on what most people can afford. Our expectations need to match reality, and currently, they don't.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I don't recall using the term "basic health care". Is there such a thing as "basic health care"? Health care is whatever is required to make a patient as healthy as possible. Different people see doctors for different reasons. Different people are admitted to a hospital for different reasons. Lab tests are done for different reasons. X-Rays and MRI's are done for different reasons. Prescriptions are written for different patients for different reasons. So, what is "basic health care"? There are many reasons why someone gets treatment and follow-up attention. I don't believe that I've ever used the term "basic health care".

*** CORRECTION ******* Yes, I did say "basic health care". I'm sorry. I meant to say "proper health care". Please ignore where I said "basic health care". I meant "proper health care". My bad. A slip on my part. Sorry.

What's the difference?

I do not believe that there is such a thing as "basic health care". On the other hand, I do believe that there is such a thing as "proper health care". "Proper health care" is doctors, and others in the health care profession, doing everything necessary to treat patients. In other words, whatever it takes to heal, cure, treat, or relieve pain and suffering. Patients want and expect results, and not mal-practice and 2nd rate care. It's way too expensive not to get what one pays for.

 

[dblack]

I do not believe that there is such a thing as "basic health care". On the other hand, I do believe that there is such a thing as "proper health care". "Proper health care" is doctors, and others in the health care profession, doing everything necessary to treat patients. In other words, whatever it takes to heal, cure, treat, or relieve pain and suffering. Patients want and expect results, and not mal-practice and 2nd rate care. It's way too expensive not to get what one pays for.

Everything necessary??? Don't you realize that's an infinite requirement?

 

[Sonny Clark]

I do not believe that there is such a thing as "basic health care". On the other hand, I do believe that there is such a thing as "proper health care". "Proper health care" is doctors, and others in the health care profession, doing everything necessary to treat patients. In other words, whatever it takes to heal, cure, treat, or relieve pain and suffering. Patients want and expect results, and not mal-practice and 2nd rate care. It's way too expensive not to get what one pays for.

Everything necessary??? Don't you realize that's an infinite requirement?

It means that those in the medical profession do their jobs to the best of their ability, period. What is an infinite requirement? Once a patient is well, and no longer seeing a doctor, how can that be infinite? If a patient sees a doctor for a broken bone, and the doctor does a great job of resetting the bone, why would that be infinite care or treatment?

 

[dblack]

I do not believe that there is such a thing as "basic health care". On the other hand, I do believe that there is such a thing as "proper health care". "Proper health care" is doctors, and others in the health care profession, doing everything necessary to treat patients. In other words, whatever it takes to heal, cure, treat, or relieve pain and suffering. Patients want and expect results, and not mal-practice and 2nd rate care. It's way too expensive not to get what one pays for.

Everything necessary??? Don't you realize that's an infinite requirement?

It means that those in the medical profession do their jobs to the best of their ability, period. What is an infinite requirement? Once a patient is well, and no longer seeing a doctor, how can that be infinite? If a patient sees a doctor for a broken bone, and the doctor does a great job of resetting the bone, why would that be infinite care or treatment?

Because every single one of us reaches a point where our health care requirements are infinite. Where keeping us alive would require more work from more doctors than the world has available. and long before that point is reached, we're using up more health core resources than we can afford. One of the facts of reality, that reasonable mature people accept, is that not everyone can have "the best". Most of us have to settle for something less.

 

[kiwiman127]

Capitalism at it's best...

What capitalism? The government sets almost ALL the rules of engagement in healthcare. There is almost zero competition in the medical device because of the government, the insurance mandated by the government to providers and the list goes on and on.

But do not let the facts get in the way of a good old socialist yammering of the "workings of capitalism" where there is none.

Government fucked the system up, therefore we need more government!

Litigation fucked up the system. Perhaps we need more litigation.

It was GREED that caused the profession to explode with price gouging and corruption.

Yeah, and the government is the greedy one with their price gouging, special interest group mandates and corportist activities.
The profession has been squeezed to death by government. Just like almost every other economic sector of the country.

Ah, the ole' standard blah, blah government, blah, regulations, blah.
I live in Minnesota which has the best healthcare system in the country, the lowest costs for healthcare insurance, the healthiest citizens and the most heavily regulated healthcare in the country. Heathcare providers aren't clamoring to the leave the state, in fact, we have had large out-state providers trying to get in the state.
TakeAStepBack, you should try another approach, an educated approach.

 

[Sonny Clark]

I do not believe that there is such a thing as "basic health care". On the other hand, I do believe that there is such a thing as "proper health care". "Proper health care" is doctors, and others in the health care profession, doing everything necessary to treat patients. In other words, whatever it takes to heal, cure, treat, or relieve pain and suffering. Patients want and expect results, and not mal-practice and 2nd rate care. It's way too expensive not to get what one pays for.

Everything necessary??? Don't you realize that's an infinite requirement?

It means that those in the medical profession do their jobs to the best of their ability, period. What is an infinite requirement? Once a patient is well, and no longer seeing a doctor, how can that be infinite? If a patient sees a doctor for a broken bone, and the doctor does a great job of resetting the bone, why would that be infinite care or treatment?

Because every single one of us reaches a point where our health care requirements are infinite. Where keeping us alive would require more work from more doctors than the world has available. and long before that point is reached, we're using up more health core resources than we can afford. One of the facts of reality, that reasonable mature people accept, is that not everyone can have "the best". Most of us have to settle for something less.

No, not every single person reaches a point where health care requirements are infinite. Many people die from natural causes, old age, car accidents, heart attacks, strokes, deadly diseases, natural disasters, murder, execution, neglect, abuse, and infections. Yes, some require health care for long periods before they either die or heal. In the same breath, many people go through life requiring very little medical attention. Also, "proper health care" does not mean "the best". "The best" is done by those in the medical profession that are of greater expertise and abilities than others. Some are specialists, some are more dedicated and better trained, and some are of natural GOD given talent. Those are not found in every city and community. Common sense tells us that "the best" is not always available to everyone. But, "proper health care" should be expected from those in the profession that agrees to accept the responsibility of their patients well-being.

 

[dblack]

No, not every single person reaches a point where health care requirements are infinite.

Most of us, in fact, do. Most of us reach a point where there just isn't enough money or medical attention available to extend our lives any further. And demanding that doctors spend expend all of their efforts on every patient is childish and insane.

Also, "proper health care" does not mean "the best". "The best" is done by those in the medical profession that are of greater expertise and abilities than others. Some are specialists, some are more dedicated and better trained, and some are of natural GOD given talent. Those are not found in every city and community. Common sense tells us that "the best" is not always available to everyone. But, "proper health care" should be expected from those in the profession that agrees to accept the responsibility of their patients well-being.

Then you need to clarify your expectations, because you defined "proper" health care as "doing everything necessary to treat patients". What does that mean to you? Everything necessary for what?

Again, I can't help but observe that this basic demand is unrealistic and delusional. And it's at the heart of the foolish healthcare regulation driving price inflation. It's, quite literally, killing us.

 

[Sonny Clark]

No, not every single person reaches a point where health care requirements are infinite.

Most of us, in fact, do. Most of us reach a point where there just isn't enough money or medical attention available to extend our lives any further. And demanding that doctors spend expend all of their efforts on every patient is childish and insane.

Also, "proper health care" does not mean "the best". "The best" is done by those in the medical profession that are of greater expertise and abilities than others. Some are specialists, some are more dedicated and better trained, and some are of natural GOD given talent. Those are not found in every city and community. Common sense tells us that "the best" is not always available to everyone. But, "proper health care" should be expected from those in the profession that agrees to accept the responsibility of their patients well-being.

Then you need to clarify your expectations, because you defined "proper" health care as "doing everything necessary to treat patients". What does that mean to you? Everything necessary for what?

Again, I can't help but observe that this basic demand is unrealistic and delusional. And it's at the heart of the foolish healthcare regulation driving price inflation. It's, quite literally, killing us.

Doing everything possible means that a medical professional does what he/she can considering his education and experience. In other words, they treat their patients with the best according to their ability. They use every single ounce of resources available to properly treat patients. It means that they don't do their job half-ass. They get paid the same whether they do a good job or a lousy job. They charge the same regardless of what they do or don't do. They should do everything necessary to properly treat their patients. No, it's not unrealistic, nor is it delusional. People should expect and get professional quality care from those in the health care industry. What drives prices in the health care industry is GREED, GREED, and more GREED. There's no excuse for charging $5.00 for an aspirin, $300.00 for a five minute conversation with a doctor, nor an excuse for charging $1,800 a day for a tiny filthy hospital room. The whole health care industry is caught up in GREED.

 

[dblack]

Doing everything possible means that a medical professional does what he/she can considering his education and experience. In other words, they treat their patients with the best according to their ability. They use every single ounce of resources available to properly treat patients.

And how in the world do you expect them to do that for every single patient???

No, it's not unrealistic, nor is it delusional. People should expect and get professional quality care from those in the health care industry.

Even if they can't pay for it? Seriously???

What drives prices in the health care industry is GREED, GREED, and more GREED. There's no excuse for charging $5.00 for an aspirin, $300.00 for a five minute conversation with a doctor, nor an excuse for charging $1,800 a day for a tiny filthy hospital room. The whole health care industry is caught up in GREED.

Sure, there's some of that. And the dumbass insurance scams we delude ourselves with are the primary means of feeding that greed. But frankly, your ridiculous expectations sound far greedier than the ambitions of medical professionals. They're just after money. You want unlimited servitude.

 

[Sonny Clark]

Doing everything possible means that a medical professional does what he/she can considering his education and experience. In other words, they treat their patients with the best according to their ability. They use every single ounce of resources available to properly treat patients.

And how in the world do you expect them to do that for every single patient???

No, it's not unrealistic, nor is it delusional. People should expect and get professional quality care from those in the health care industry.

Even if they can't pay for it? Seriously???

What drives prices in the health care industry is GREED, GREED, and more GREED. There's no excuse for charging $5.00 for an aspirin, $300.00 for a five minute conversation with a doctor, nor an excuse for charging $1,800 a day for a tiny filthy hospital room. The whole health care industry is caught up in GREED.

Sure, there's some of that. And the dumbass insurance scams we delude ourselves with are the primary means of feeding that greed. But frankly, your ridiculous expectations sound far greedier than the ambitions of medical professionals. They're just after money. You want unlimited servitude.

No, not correct. I do NOT want servitude, unlimited or otherwise. Yes, the whole health care industry is after your money, and has been for a very long time. Yes, insurance companies also contribute to the scam, I agree. It's the whole of the health care industry, no exceptions. All I want is to get what I pay for, nothing more, nothing less. I have absolutely no interest in servitude of any kind. By the way, insurance companies pay according to what the health care professionals charge for services. Insurance companies do not add items to the bills. They have codes for each item, and the charges associated with those codes. What they don't pay, the patient is responsible for.

 

[dblack]

Doing everything possible means that a medical professional does what he/she can considering his education and experience. In other words, they treat their patients with the best according to their ability. They use every single ounce of resources available to properly treat patients.

And how in the world do you expect them to do that for every single patient???

No, it's not unrealistic, nor is it delusional. People should expect and get professional quality care from those in the health care industry.

Even if they can't pay for it? Seriously???

What drives prices in the health care industry is GREED, GREED, and more GREED. There's no excuse for charging $5.00 for an aspirin, $300.00 for a five minute conversation with a doctor, nor an excuse for charging $1,800 a day for a tiny filthy hospital room. The whole health care industry is caught up in GREED.

Sure, there's some of that. And the dumbass insurance scams we delude ourselves with are the primary means of feeding that greed. But frankly, your ridiculous expectations sound far greedier than the ambitions of medical professionals. They're just after money. You want unlimited servitude.

No, not correct. I do NOT want servitude, unlimited or otherwise. Yes, the whole health care industry is after your money, and has been for a very long time. Yes, insurance companies also contribute to the scam, I agree. It's the whole of the health care industry, no exceptions. All I want is to get what I pay for, nothing more, nothing less. I have absolutely no interest in servitude of any kind. By the way, insurance companies pay according to what the health care professionals charge for services. Insurance companies do not add items to the bills. They have codes for each item, and the charges associated with those codes. What they don't pay, the patient is responsible for.

Well, you're just contradicting yourself. Do you want what you pay for, or do you want "every single ounce of resources available"? Because those aren't the same things. It's our inability to accept that reality that's driving health care prices through the roof.

 

[Sonny Clark]

Doing everything possible means that a medical professional does what he/she can considering his education and experience. In other words, they treat their patients with the best according to their ability. They use every single ounce of resources available to properly treat patients.

And how in the world do you expect them to do that for every single patient???

No, it's not unrealistic, nor is it delusional. People should expect and get professional quality care from those in the health care industry.

Even if they can't pay for it? Seriously???

What drives prices in the health care industry is GREED, GREED, and more GREED. There's no excuse for charging $5.00 for an aspirin, $300.00 for a five minute conversation with a doctor, nor an excuse for charging $1,800 a day for a tiny filthy hospital room. The whole health care industry is caught up in GREED.

Sure, there's some of that. And the dumbass insurance scams we delude ourselves with are the primary means of feeding that greed. But frankly, your ridiculous expectations sound far greedier than the ambitions of medical professionals. They're just after money. You want unlimited servitude.

No, not correct. I do NOT want servitude, unlimited or otherwise. Yes, the whole health care industry is after your money, and has been for a very long time. Yes, insurance companies also contribute to the scam, I agree. It's the whole of the health care industry, no exceptions. All I want is to get what I pay for, nothing more, nothing less. I have absolutely no interest in servitude of any kind. By the way, insurance companies pay according to what the health care professionals charge for services. Insurance companies do not add items to the bills. They have codes for each item, and the charges associated with those codes. What they don't pay, the patient is responsible for.

Well, you're just contradicting yourself. Do you want what you pay for, or do you want "every single ounce of resources available"? Because those aren't the same things. It's our inability to accept that reality that's driving health care prices through the roof.

No contradiction at all. Healthcare professionals do not display signs as to the quality and grade of their services. It is unspoken that you'll get their best possible care and treatment. They do not ask a patient what level or grade of service they want. They do what they feel like doing, and charge what they feel like charging. I pay for quality, and I expect quality. I know of no health care professional that charges according to a certain level or grade of service. Have you ever seen or heard of a bill that shows a grade or level of service beside each item listed? Health care cost rises through the roof because the health care industry is a money machine kept running through GREED. No one tells a doctor what to charge for an office visit. No one tells a hospital that they can't charge $5.00 for a single aspirin. No one tells a lab that they can't charge $2,000 for a simple work-up on a blood sample. The industry is based on GREED. And, since it's a necessity, they can get by with it. Just like fresh drinking water, the water company can charge what they want because they know you need it and can't get it yourself. You depend on their water lines, they water treatment process, and for their services. How much would you pay for fresh drinking water when you turned on your taps at the house? What's it worth to you? The same goes for proper health care. We pay because we have no choice but to pay when we're in pain, and can't cure or heal ourselves. If you're hurt bad enough, you'll find an emergency room.

 

[dblack]

No contradiction at all. Healthcare professionals do not display signs as to the quality and grade of their services. It is unspoken that you'll get their best possible care and treatment. They do not ask a patient what level or grade of service they want. They do what they feel like doing, and charge what they feel like charging. I pay for quality, and I expect quality. I know of no health care professional that charges according to a certain level or grade of service. Have you ever seen or heard of a bill that shows a grade or level of service beside each item listed? Health care cost rises through the roof because the health care industry is a money machine kept running through GREED. No one tells a doctor what to charge for an office visit. No one tells a hospital that they can't charge $5.00 for a single aspirin. No one tells a lab that they can't charge $2,000 for a simple work-up on a blood sample. The industry is based on GREED. And, since it's a necessity, they can get by with it. Just like fresh drinking water, the water company can charge what they want because they know you need it and can't get it yourself. You depend on their water lines, they water treatment process, and for their services. How much would you pay for fresh drinking water when you turned on your taps at the house? What's it worth to you? The same goes for proper health care. We pay because we have no choice but to pay when we're in pain, and can't cure or heal ourselves. If you're hurt bad enough, you'll find an emergency room.

Not buyin' it. Your expectations are demonstrably irrational and would be laughable if they didn't, in sad point of fact, reflect the prevailing opinion of American health care consumers.

 

[Sonny Clark]

No contradiction at all. Healthcare professionals do not display signs as to the quality and grade of their services. It is unspoken that you'll get their best possible care and treatment. They do not ask a patient what level or grade of service they want. They do what they feel like doing, and charge what they feel like charging. I pay for quality, and I expect quality. I know of no health care professional that charges according to a certain level or grade of service. Have you ever seen or heard of a bill that shows a grade or level of service beside each item listed? Health care cost rises through the roof because the health care industry is a money machine kept running through GREED. No one tells a doctor what to charge for an office visit. No one tells a hospital that they can't charge $5.00 for a single aspirin. No one tells a lab that they can't charge $2,000 for a simple work-up on a blood sample. The industry is based on GREED. And, since it's a necessity, they can get by with it. Just like fresh drinking water, the water company can charge what they want because they know you need it and can't get it yourself. You depend on their water lines, they water treatment process, and for their services. How much would you pay for fresh drinking water when you turned on your taps at the house? What's it worth to you? The same goes for proper health care. We pay because we have no choice but to pay when we're in pain, and can't cure or heal ourselves. If you're hurt bad enough, you'll find an emergency room.

Not buyin' it. Your expectations are demonstrably irrational and would be laughable if they didn't, in sad point of fact, reflect the prevailing opinion of American health care consumers.

There's no other way to think of it, or to see it. The poor and less fortunate can't afford proper health care, and most can't pay for services out of their own pockets. And, yes, It's a money game where GREED is the only rule to play by. In addition, you have not shown nor explain any other possible solution that would be doable and workable. Your main argument is that everyone should pay for their own health care, and those that can't, can just die in the streets. I fail to see that line of thinking as reasonable or acceptable. But, you're entitled to your opinion, and I respect you right to express it.

 

[Ame®icano]

Just like water, food, shelter, and clothing, proper health care is a necessity....
...

Newsflash, you're paying for all those necessities.

 

[Ame®icano]

Capitalism at it's best...

What capitalism? The government sets almost ALL the rules of engagement in healthcare. There is almost zero competition in the medical device because of the government, the insurance mandated by the government to providers and the list goes on and on.

But do not let the facts get in the way of a good old socialist yammering of the "workings of capitalism" where there is none.

Government fucked the system up, therefore we need more government!

Exactly.

People who claim we can't pay for doctors and medications, selling us idea that we can pay for the same if government runs it.

 

[Sonny Clark]

Just like water, food, shelter, and clothing, proper health care is a necessity....
...

Newsflash, you're paying for all those necessities.

Of course I am, and so is millions of others. I do NOT expect those things to be free of charge. I do NOT mind paying for what I get or use. I do NOT expect everything for free, and never ever implied such.