A 'mass murder in the Mediterranean' leaves nearly 450 lost at sea

[Rikurzhen]

who is "our ancestors" ????

That is not a question I'm qualified to answer for you...

no doubt----but YOU alluded to the "opinions" of "our ancestors"

I questioned why our ancestors didn't stay in their own countries and fight for a better country Seens a valid enough question to me.

American wanted our ancestors back then, we don't want these Muslims now, neither does Italy, neither does Sweden. American back then was a sink or swim society. If you want to bring me around, you'd go along way to that end by cutting out all welfare in society. Make the US a sink or swim society again and you remove a key objection.

Having a welfare state and immigration is idiocy sqaured. Importing poverty and then having to lower one's own income in order to support the poor is crazy.

 

[aris2chat]

who is "our ancestors" ????

That is not a question I'm qualified to answer for you...

no doubt----but YOU alluded to the "opinions" of "our ancestors"

I questioned why our ancestors didn't stay in their own countries and fight for a better country Seens a valid enough question to me.

Ancestors from Roman times? Ancestors force to leave or convert during the Inquisition? During WWII?
Arab ancestors with too few jobs in their own fledgling countries? Just coming out of Ottoman rule? Ancestors that left to escape fanaticism only to have their children become fanatical? Ancestors that moved because of a specialized skill in tech based jobs opening up? Ancestors that were minorities persecuted by a majority? Dictatorship? Seeking higher education? Seeking modernization? Seeking ancient roots? Seeking to return to their faith? Seeking to escape faith?

Jews (russians, germans, spanish, egytians, lebanese....), muslims, christians, arabs, armenians, kurds, syrians........
????????

Stay and make what better? Women and children should stay while the men fight for change? Women and children should also struggle for changes? Struggle for a right to vote? Right to free speech? Right to faith? Right for minority protection? Right for majority rule? Right to oppose terrorism? Right to oppose authoritarian rule? Right to hate and incite violence? Right to oppose hate and violence?

Staying is not always an option. I'm sure that simply leaving russian under stalin might have sounded desirable if they had the freedom to leave or to struggle for change.

Roads paved with gold never existed but people don't always face it easy when they do seek a new place to lay their head. Sometimes staying can be more dangerous then a forced march to parts unknown with no resources to restart their lives with.

Who has the magic crystal ball to see what is best in the near and far future? What is if don't know you even have a choice or what those options might be?

 

[irosie91]

stop confusing the issue with reality

 

[Coyote]

who is "our ancestors" ????

That is not a question I'm qualified to answer for you...

no doubt----but YOU alluded to the "opinions" of "our ancestors"

I questioned why our ancestors didn't stay in their own countries and fight for a better country Seens a valid enough question to me.

Ancestors from Roman times? Ancestors force to leave or convert during the Inquisition? During WWII?
Arab ancestors with too few jobs in their own fledgling countries? Just coming out of Ottoman rule? Ancestors that left to escape fanaticism only to have their children become fanatical? Ancestors that moved because of a specialized skill in tech based jobs opening up? Ancestors that were minorities persecuted by a majority? Dictatorship? Seeking higher education? Seeking modernization? Seeking ancient roots? Seeking to return to their faith? Seeking to escape faith?

Jews (russians, germans, spanish, egytians, lebanese....), muslims, christians, arabs, armenians, kurds, syrians........
????????

Stay and make what better? Women and children should stay while the men fight for change? Women and children should also struggle for changes? Struggle for a right to vote? Right to free speech? Right to faith? Right for minority protection? Right for majority rule? Right to oppose terrorism? Right to oppose authoritarian rule? Right to hate and incite violence? Right to oppose hate and violence?

Staying is not always an option. I'm sure that simply leaving russian under stalin might have sounded desirable if they had the freedom to leave or to struggle for change.

Roads paved with gold never existed but people don't always face it easy when they do seek a new place to lay their head. Sometimes staying can be more dangerous then a forced march to parts unknown with no resources to restart their lives with.

Who has the magic crystal ball to see what is best in the near and far future? What is if don't know you even have a choice or what those options might be?

Thank you! Well said - that is exactly the point I was making in response to the claim that these refugees should just stay where they came from (A mass murder in the Mediterranean leaves nearly 450 lost at sea US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum) THAT was why I asked the question about our own immigrant acestors. And if you have a family to protect - you need to do what you can to ensure their survival the best you can. That was beautifully put!!!