A 'mass murder in the Mediterranean' leaves nearly 450 lost at sea

[Coyote]

great thread-----everyone stayed in character. Aris described it accurately, coyote pontificated self righteously,
deltass UNIVERSALIZED IT, and Rikurzit lauded the
Syrian Baathist murderers as the heroic victims of-----the rest of the world

ok...on this one Rosie rocks ....


except forgot one: and Rosie brings in "da JOOOOOOOOS"

 

[ChrisL]

That little girl certainly did not deserve to die like that.

Then her father shouldn't have involved her and the rest of his family in a criminal enterprise.

He was quite willing to IMPOSE his presence on the people of Italy and Sweden, an uninvited party crasher.

If he hadn't been a criminal, then his family would still be alive today.

Stay and fix your OWN society instead of RUINING the societies of others.

Wow. Talk about hate. Big words from the armchair of a person who is not facing these choices. Immigrants have been fleeing war torn countries for ages. That's how a good many ended up in America legally and illegally. If you have a family to protect - and you reach a point where they can not be kept safe where you are - what do you do? Stay there and hope they don't get killed or finally flee and hope you can find safety? Are your children expendable pawns?

So using your logic - anyone who resides anywhere illegally is fair game for murder and violence? Really? And you consider yourself "civilized"?

If it makes you feel better you can think of it as an invading force being sunk by pirates. The pirates did both Italy and Sweden a favor. Every single person there would have cost Italy money, meaning that Italians would be ROBBED in order to support these strangers. Each of us is entitled to defend ourselves with deadly force in order to prevent violence being done to us. Being robbed is violence. Italians were saved from having violence committed against them.

Those people should have stayed and fought for a better country in their own homeland.

It's true. That is what they should do. I sometimes see foreigners with their home country flags on display. When you ask them why, they will tell you it's because they are still so proud of their home country and love their country and the people. One has to wonder, why they don't stay in their countries and try to improve things. Fleeing and illegally residing in other countries is not the answer and is not helping the people in their respective countries, whether it be Palestine, Mexico, etc.

They are proud of their heritage...there is nothing wrong with that. Where I live we have a huge Italian-American population. We celebrate every hear with an Italian heritage festival. They are still every bit as American as you and I.

Why didn't our ancestors stay in their countries and improve things?

I think that many did not like their home countries and fled to escape and gladly became "Americans." That is just not the case with some people. They are not proud to be in America (maybe that has something to do with an "illegal" status). Some of them don't even like Americans. They are only here to work and make money but they don't respect us, our laws or our country.

 

[Rikurzhen]

That little girl certainly did not deserve to die like that.

Then her father shouldn't have involved her and the rest of his family in a criminal enterprise.

He was quite willing to IMPOSE his presence on the people of Italy and Sweden, an uninvited party crasher.

If he hadn't been a criminal, then his family would still be alive today.

Stay and fix your OWN society instead of RUINING the societies of others.

Wow. Talk about hate. Big words from the armchair of a person who is not facing these choices. Immigrants have been fleeing war torn countries for ages. That's how a good many ended up in America legally and illegally. If you have a family to protect - and you reach a point where they can not be kept safe where you are - what do you do? Stay there and hope they don't get killed or finally flee and hope you can find safety? Are your children expendable pawns?

So using your logic - anyone who resides anywhere illegally is fair game for murder and violence? Really? And you consider yourself "civilized"?

If it makes you feel better you can think of it as an invading force being sunk by pirates. The pirates did both Italy and Sweden a favor. Every single person there would have cost Italy money, meaning that Italians would be ROBBED in order to support these strangers. Each of us is entitled to defend ourselves with deadly force in order to prevent violence being done to us. Being robbed is violence. Italians were saved from having violence committed against them.

Those people should have stayed and fought for a better country in their own homeland.

It's true. That is what they should do. I sometimes see foreigners with their home country flags on display. When you ask them why, they will tell you it's because they are still so proud of their home country and love their country and the people. One has to wonder, why they don't stay in their countries and try to improve things. Fleeing and illegally residing in other countries is not the answer and is not helping the people in their respective countries, whether it be Palestine, Mexico, etc.

They are proud of their heritage...there is nothing wrong with that. Where I live we have a huge Italian-American population. We celebrate every hear with an Italian heritage festival. They are still every bit as American as you and I.

Why didn't our ancestors stay in their countries and improve things?

Our ancestors didn't arrive here and do this:

Auntie Zeituni had no job skills, no special talent, no compelling reason to keep her here in America as an asset to our culture or our economy. She didn’t value the American Dream. She was a dependency nightmare. She collected $700 a month in welfare benefits and disability payments totaling $51,000. Somehow, Auntie Zeituni also drummed up money to apply for asylum and finagled her way into both federal and state public housing in Boston.

She contributed nothing to this country. The only “work” she did was gaming the system, complaining about her lot and blaming everyone else for her problems while they subsidized her 14-year illegal overstay.
​

No Welcome Wagon for them, no free housing, no welfare. They worked or starved or went back home. They lived in what they could afford, not state-provided low income housing. The parents paid directly for their schooling, they didn't get $11,000 per year per child subsidies from the local citizenry. If they were ill they paid for their own doctor, received church charity or suffered, they didn't get state provided no-limits Medicaid.

 

[ChrisL]

Then her father shouldn't have involved her and the rest of his family in a criminal enterprise.

He was quite willing to IMPOSE his presence on the people of Italy and Sweden, an uninvited party crasher.

If he hadn't been a criminal, then his family would still be alive today.

Stay and fix your OWN society instead of RUINING the societies of others.

Wow. Talk about hate. Big words from the armchair of a person who is not facing these choices. Immigrants have been fleeing war torn countries for ages. That's how a good many ended up in America legally and illegally. If you have a family to protect - and you reach a point where they can not be kept safe where you are - what do you do? Stay there and hope they don't get killed or finally flee and hope you can find safety? Are your children expendable pawns?

So using your logic - anyone who resides anywhere illegally is fair game for murder and violence? Really? And you consider yourself "civilized"?

If it makes you feel better you can think of it as an invading force being sunk by pirates. The pirates did both Italy and Sweden a favor. Every single person there would have cost Italy money, meaning that Italians would be ROBBED in order to support these strangers. Each of us is entitled to defend ourselves with deadly force in order to prevent violence being done to us. Being robbed is violence. Italians were saved from having violence committed against them.

Those people should have stayed and fought for a better country in their own homeland.

It's true. That is what they should do. I sometimes see foreigners with their home country flags on display. When you ask them why, they will tell you it's because they are still so proud of their home country and love their country and the people. One has to wonder, why they don't stay in their countries and try to improve things. Fleeing and illegally residing in other countries is not the answer and is not helping the people in their respective countries, whether it be Palestine, Mexico, etc.

They are proud of their heritage...there is nothing wrong with that. Where I live we have a huge Italian-American population. We celebrate every hear with an Italian heritage festival. They are still every bit as American as you and I.

Why didn't our ancestors stay in their countries and improve things?

Our ancestors didn't arrive here and do this:

Auntie Zeituni had no job skills, no special talent, no compelling reason to keep her here in America as an asset to our culture or our economy. She didn’t value the American Dream. She was a dependency nightmare. She collected $700 a month in welfare benefits and disability payments totaling $51,000. Somehow, Auntie Zeituni also drummed up money to apply for asylum and finagled her way into both federal and state public housing in Boston.

She contributed nothing to this country. The only “work” she did was gaming the system, complaining about her lot and blaming everyone else for her problems while they subsidized her 14-year illegal overstay.
​

No Welcome Wagon for them, no free housing, no welfare. They worked or starved or went back home. They lived in what they could afford, not state-provided low income housing. The parents paid directly for their schooling, they didn't get $11,000 per year per child subsidies from the local citizenry. If they were ill they paid for their own doctor, received church charity or suffered, they didn't get state provided no-limits Medicaid.

Yes, in order to receive benefits, you should have to have paid into the system through taxes legally, of course. This is a no brainer for me. I am totally against illegal immigration. There are many reasons to be against it, and very reasons I've seen put forth to support it. While I feel sorry for some people and their terrible predicaments, we cannot afford to save the world. There is a limit on what we can afford, and our money is limited to what is paid in. This means that we have to have a lot more people working and paying into the system than those collecting off the system. The more people on the welfare, the more stress on the system and on us taxpayers.

 

[SAYIT]

That little girl certainly did not deserve to die like that.

Then her father shouldn't have involved her and the rest of his family in a criminal enterprise.

He was quite willing to IMPOSE his presence on the people of Italy and Sweden, an uninvited party crasher.

If he hadn't been a criminal, then his family would still be alive today.

Stay and fix your OWN society instead of RUINING the societies of others.

Wow. Talk about hate. Big words from the armchair of a person who is not facing these choices. Immigrants have been fleeing war torn countries for ages. That's how a good many ended up in America legally and illegally. If you have a family to protect - and you reach a point where they can not be kept safe where you are - what do you do? Stay there and hope they don't get killed or finally flee and hope you can find safety? Are your children expendable pawns?

So using your logic - anyone who resides anywhere illegally is fair game for murder and violence? Really? And you consider yourself "civilized"?

If it makes you feel better you can think of it as an invading force being sunk by pirates. The pirates did both Italy and Sweden a favor. Every single person there would have cost Italy money, meaning that Italians would be ROBBED in order to support these strangers. Each of us is entitled to defend ourselves with deadly force in order to prevent violence being done to us. Being robbed is violence. Italians were saved from having violence committed against them.

Those people should have stayed and fought for a better country in their own homeland.

It's true. That is what they should do. I sometimes see foreigners with their home country flags on display. When you ask them why, they will tell you it's because they are still so proud of their home country and love their country and the people. One has to wonder, why they don't stay in their countries and try to improve things. Fleeing and illegally residing in other countries is not the answer and is not helping the people in their respective countries, whether it be Palestine, Mexico, etc.

I don't know, Chris. If I thought I could get my family out from under Hamas's yoke and could afford to do so with reasonable risk, I might just take the chance.

 

[Roadrunner]

I don't think human traffickers care. I don't think they would treat other migrants they are scamming for money any different.

Anyone who could cold bloodedly murder innocent people doesn't deserve to be excused because folks "hate Palestinians". Blaming the Palestinians for this is really low.

That little girl certainly did not deserve to die like that.

Other Arabs won't even have them.

That little girl was born for one reason, to breed fighters.

 

[Roadrunner]

I don't think human traffickers care. I don't think they would treat other migrants they are scamming for money any different.

Anyone who could cold bloodedly murder innocent people doesn't deserve to be excused because folks "hate Palestinians". Blaming the Palestinians for this is really low.

That little girl certainly did not deserve to die like that.

True, they weren't Palestinians, just bodies. Slavery's alive and prospering around the world, even right here in the US. Until we decide to end it it will continue. But because we function on a capitalist system, if cheap labor or slave labor is available, some will opt for that option to be competetive. So long as US companies outsource to cheap labor markets which sometimes use slaves, demand for slaves will remain.

Apple's a good example of our hypocrisy. American company, arguably one that's integral to our lifestyle, yet they build the iPods in facotories with such horrific conditions they literally had to place a net around the building to catch workers trying to commit suicide leaping out windows.

Reason human trafficking goes on is we enjoy the fruits of slave labor. If it comes down to paying substantially more for our goods by eliminating slavery, or paying less by turning a blind eye to it, we turn a blind eye. Sad but true.

Let's see, where are the most slaves, in "capitalist pig" factories, or commie gulags?

 

[ChrisL]

That little girl certainly did not deserve to die like that.

Then her father shouldn't have involved her and the rest of his family in a criminal enterprise.

He was quite willing to IMPOSE his presence on the people of Italy and Sweden, an uninvited party crasher.

If he hadn't been a criminal, then his family would still be alive today.

Stay and fix your OWN society instead of RUINING the societies of others.

Wow. Talk about hate. Big words from the armchair of a person who is not facing these choices. Immigrants have been fleeing war torn countries for ages. That's how a good many ended up in America legally and illegally. If you have a family to protect - and you reach a point where they can not be kept safe where you are - what do you do? Stay there and hope they don't get killed or finally flee and hope you can find safety? Are your children expendable pawns?

So using your logic - anyone who resides anywhere illegally is fair game for murder and violence? Really? And you consider yourself "civilized"?

If it makes you feel better you can think of it as an invading force being sunk by pirates. The pirates did both Italy and Sweden a favor. Every single person there would have cost Italy money, meaning that Italians would be ROBBED in order to support these strangers. Each of us is entitled to defend ourselves with deadly force in order to prevent violence being done to us. Being robbed is violence. Italians were saved from having violence committed against them.

Those people should have stayed and fought for a better country in their own homeland.

It's true. That is what they should do. I sometimes see foreigners with their home country flags on display. When you ask them why, they will tell you it's because they are still so proud of their home country and love their country and the people. One has to wonder, why they don't stay in their countries and try to improve things. Fleeing and illegally residing in other countries is not the answer and is not helping the people in their respective countries, whether it be Palestine, Mexico, etc.

I don't know, Chris. If I thought I could get my family out from under Hamas's yoke and could afford to do so with reasonable risk, I might just take the chance.

I really don't know what I'd do in that situation. I've never been in such a situation. I would like to think that I would try to immigrate legally rather than illegally though. Also, I think that if you are really in a bad spot, you can apply for asylum, so we help those that we can, but we cannot realistically help everyone. There are too many.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Then her father shouldn't have involved her and the rest of his family in a criminal enterprise.

He was quite willing to IMPOSE his presence on the people of Italy and Sweden, an uninvited party crasher.

If he hadn't been a criminal, then his family would still be alive today.

Stay and fix your OWN society instead of RUINING the societies of others.

Wow. Talk about hate. Big words from the armchair of a person who is not facing these choices. Immigrants have been fleeing war torn countries for ages. That's how a good many ended up in America legally and illegally. If you have a family to protect - and you reach a point where they can not be kept safe where you are - what do you do? Stay there and hope they don't get killed or finally flee and hope you can find safety? Are your children expendable pawns?

So using your logic - anyone who resides anywhere illegally is fair game for murder and violence? Really? And you consider yourself "civilized"?

If it makes you feel better you can think of it as an invading force being sunk by pirates. The pirates did both Italy and Sweden a favor. Every single person there would have cost Italy money, meaning that Italians would be ROBBED in order to support these strangers. Each of us is entitled to defend ourselves with deadly force in order to prevent violence being done to us. Being robbed is violence. Italians were saved from having violence committed against them.

Those people should have stayed and fought for a better country in their own homeland.

It's true. That is what they should do. I sometimes see foreigners with their home country flags on display. When you ask them why, they will tell you it's because they are still so proud of their home country and love their country and the people. One has to wonder, why they don't stay in their countries and try to improve things. Fleeing and illegally residing in other countries is not the answer and is not helping the people in their respective countries, whether it be Palestine, Mexico, etc.

I don't know, Chris. If I thought I could get my family out from under Hamas's yoke and could afford to do so with reasonable risk, I might just take the chance.

I really don't know what I'd do in that situation. I've never been in such a situation. I would like to think that I would try to immigrate legally rather than illegally though. Also, I think that if you are really in a bad spot, you can apply for asylum, so we help those that we can, but we cannot realistically help everyone. There are too many.

Asylum works under international law by directing asylum seekers to neighboring lands, not to pick and choose the best lands. For Palestinians, the countries should be Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, Israel, Turkey, Algeria, Iraq, Syria, etc. Not freaking Sweden up near the Arctic Circle.

 

[SAYIT]

It's true. That is what they should do. I sometimes see foreigners with their home country flags on display. When you ask them why, they will tell you it's because they are still so proud of their home country and love their country and the people. One has to wonder, why they don't stay in their countries and try to improve things. Fleeing and illegally residing in other countries is not the answer and is not helping the people in their respective countries, whether it be Palestine, Mexico, etc.

I don't know, Chris. If I thought I could get my family out from under Hamas's yoke and could afford to do so with reasonable risk, I might just take the chance.

I really don't know what I'd do in that situation. I've never been in such a situation. I would like to think that I would try to immigrate legally rather than illegally though. Also, I think that if you are really in a bad spot, you can apply for asylum, so we help those that we can, but we cannot realistically help everyone. There are too many.

Indeed we cannot save everyone but they must get to a friendly country before applying for asylum (note that virtually no one has ever sought asylum in the Arab Mideast). That may have been the guy's hope ... to have his family accommodated in Europe.

 

[SAYIT]

I listened to this on the way to work yesterday - it's hard to believe someone could deliberately do this...

Out of 450 people, only 11 survivors. This man was adrift for 4 days before rescue. His wife and two little daughters drowned.

A mass murder in the Mediterranean leaves nearly 450 lost at sea including this man s family Public Radio International

This article has more info on the overall problem of human smuggling in that area: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/21/w...eadly-journey-from-middle-east-to-europe.html

A terrible tragedy which raises some painful questions.
Where is the brotherly compassion from their fellow Muslims for these hapless and desperate Gaza escapees?
Why did it take nearly 2 months to hit the news?
Given the "grinding poverty" we are told by some defines life in Gaza, how did this family "scrape together" the money?
When will the international community and some here admit the trouble with life in Gaza is - drum roll, please - HAMAS?

 

[SAYIT]

Wow. Talk about hate. Big words from the armchair of a person who is not facing these choices. Immigrants have been fleeing war torn countries for ages. That's how a good many ended up in America legally and illegally. If you have a family to protect - and you reach a point where they can not be kept safe where you are - what do you do? Stay there and hope they don't get killed or finally flee and hope you can find safety? Are your children expendable pawns?

So using your logic - anyone who resides anywhere illegally is fair game for murder and violence? Really? And you consider yourself "civilized"?

If it makes you feel better you can think of it as an invading force being sunk by pirates. The pirates did both Italy and Sweden a favor. Every single person there would have cost Italy money, meaning that Italians would be ROBBED in order to support these strangers. Each of us is entitled to defend ourselves with deadly force in order to prevent violence being done to us. Being robbed is violence. Italians were saved from having violence committed against them.

Those people should have stayed and fought for a better country in their own homeland.

It's true. That is what they should do. I sometimes see foreigners with their home country flags on display. When you ask them why, they will tell you it's because they are still so proud of their home country and love their country and the people. One has to wonder, why they don't stay in their countries and try to improve things. Fleeing and illegally residing in other countries is not the answer and is not helping the people in their respective countries, whether it be Palestine, Mexico, etc.

They are proud of their heritage...there is nothing wrong with that. Where I live we have a huge Italian-American population. We celebrate every hear with an Italian heritage festival. They are still every bit as American as you and I.

Why didn't our ancestors stay in their countries and improve things?

Our ancestors didn't arrive here and do this:

Auntie Zeituni had no job skills, no special talent, no compelling reason to keep her here in America as an asset to our culture or our economy. She didn’t value the American Dream. She was a dependency nightmare. She collected $700 a month in welfare benefits and disability payments totaling $51,000. Somehow, Auntie Zeituni also drummed up money to apply for asylum and finagled her way into both federal and state public housing in Boston.

She contributed nothing to this country. The only “work” she did was gaming the system, complaining about her lot and blaming everyone else for her problems while they subsidized her 14-year illegal overstay.
​

No Welcome Wagon for them, no free housing, no welfare. They worked or starved or went back home. They lived in what they could afford, not state-provided low income housing. The parents paid directly for their schooling, they didn't get $11,000 per year per child subsidies from the local citizenry. If they were ill they paid for their own doctor, received church charity or suffered, they didn't get state provided no-limits Medicaid.

Yes, in order to receive benefits, you should have to have paid into the system through taxes legally, of course. This is a no brainer for me. I am totally against illegal immigration. There are many reasons to be against it, and very reasons I've seen put forth to support it. While I feel sorry for some people and their terrible predicaments, we cannot afford to save the world. There is a limit on what we can afford, and our money is limited to what is paid in. This means that we have to have a lot more people working and paying into the system than those collecting off the system. The more people on the welfare, the more stress on the system and on us taxpayers.

Italy has a negative birth rate and fewer young people coming than going. They actually need an influx of young workers but aren't too keen on Palestinians.

 

[Roadrunner]

Wow. Talk about hate. Big words from the armchair of a person who is not facing these choices. Immigrants have been fleeing war torn countries for ages. That's how a good many ended up in America legally and illegally. If you have a family to protect - and you reach a point where they can not be kept safe where you are - what do you do? Stay there and hope they don't get killed or finally flee and hope you can find safety? Are your children expendable pawns?

So using your logic - anyone who resides anywhere illegally is fair game for murder and violence? Really? And you consider yourself "civilized"?

If it makes you feel better you can think of it as an invading force being sunk by pirates. The pirates did both Italy and Sweden a favor. Every single person there would have cost Italy money, meaning that Italians would be ROBBED in order to support these strangers. Each of us is entitled to defend ourselves with deadly force in order to prevent violence being done to us. Being robbed is violence. Italians were saved from having violence committed against them.

Those people should have stayed and fought for a better country in their own homeland.

It's true. That is what they should do. I sometimes see foreigners with their home country flags on display. When you ask them why, they will tell you it's because they are still so proud of their home country and love their country and the people. One has to wonder, why they don't stay in their countries and try to improve things. Fleeing and illegally residing in other countries is not the answer and is not helping the people in their respective countries, whether it be Palestine, Mexico, etc.

I don't know, Chris. If I thought I could get my family out from under Hamas's yoke and could afford to do so with reasonable risk, I might just take the chance.

I really don't know what I'd do in that situation. I've never been in such a situation. I would like to think that I would try to immigrate legally rather than illegally though. Also, I think that if you are really in a bad spot, you can apply for asylum, so we help those that we can, but we cannot realistically help everyone. There are too many.

Asylum works under international law by directing asylum seekers to neighboring lands, not to pick and choose the best lands. For Palestinians, the countries should be Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, Israel, Turkey, Algeria, Iraq, Syria, etc. Not freaking Sweden up near the Arctic Circle.

You just listed the countries that EXPELLED the Palestinians.

NOBODY wants to live with them; the other Arabs do like their willingness to die for them.

 

[Roadrunner]

If it makes you feel better you can think of it as an invading force being sunk by pirates. The pirates did both Italy and Sweden a favor. Every single person there would have cost Italy money, meaning that Italians would be ROBBED in order to support these strangers. Each of us is entitled to defend ourselves with deadly force in order to prevent violence being done to us. Being robbed is violence. Italians were saved from having violence committed against them.

Those people should have stayed and fought for a better country in their own homeland.

It's true. That is what they should do. I sometimes see foreigners with their home country flags on display. When you ask them why, they will tell you it's because they are still so proud of their home country and love their country and the people. One has to wonder, why they don't stay in their countries and try to improve things. Fleeing and illegally residing in other countries is not the answer and is not helping the people in their respective countries, whether it be Palestine, Mexico, etc.

They are proud of their heritage...there is nothing wrong with that. Where I live we have a huge Italian-American population. We celebrate every hear with an Italian heritage festival. They are still every bit as American as you and I.

Why didn't our ancestors stay in their countries and improve things?

Our ancestors didn't arrive here and do this:

Auntie Zeituni had no job skills, no special talent, no compelling reason to keep her here in America as an asset to our culture or our economy. She didn’t value the American Dream. She was a dependency nightmare. She collected $700 a month in welfare benefits and disability payments totaling $51,000. Somehow, Auntie Zeituni also drummed up money to apply for asylum and finagled her way into both federal and state public housing in Boston.

She contributed nothing to this country. The only “work” she did was gaming the system, complaining about her lot and blaming everyone else for her problems while they subsidized her 14-year illegal overstay.
​

No Welcome Wagon for them, no free housing, no welfare. They worked or starved or went back home. They lived in what they could afford, not state-provided low income housing. The parents paid directly for their schooling, they didn't get $11,000 per year per child subsidies from the local citizenry. If they were ill they paid for their own doctor, received church charity or suffered, they didn't get state provided no-limits Medicaid.

Yes, in order to receive benefits, you should have to have paid into the system through taxes legally, of course. This is a no brainer for me. I am totally against illegal immigration. There are many reasons to be against it, and very reasons I've seen put forth to support it. While I feel sorry for some people and their terrible predicaments, we cannot afford to save the world. There is a limit on what we can afford, and our money is limited to what is paid in. This means that we have to have a lot more people working and paying into the system than those collecting off the system. The more people on the welfare, the more stress on the system and on us taxpayers.

Italy has a negative birth rate and fewer young people coming than going. They actually need an influx of young workers but aren't too keen on Palestinians.

Palestinian aren't too keen on Palestinians.

They kill more of each other than the Israelis do.

They are the vermin of the mid-East.

 

[SAYIT]

I think that many did not like their home countries and fled to escape and gladly became "Americans." That is just not the case with some people. They are not proud to be in America (maybe that has something to do with an "illegal" status). Some of them don't even like Americans. They are only here to work and make money but they don't respect us, our laws or our country.

Regrettably there are many American born Americans who don't much like this country.

 

[Rikurzhen]

If it makes you feel better you can think of it as an invading force being sunk by pirates. The pirates did both Italy and Sweden a favor. Every single person there would have cost Italy money, meaning that Italians would be ROBBED in order to support these strangers. Each of us is entitled to defend ourselves with deadly force in order to prevent violence being done to us. Being robbed is violence. Italians were saved from having violence committed against them.

Those people should have stayed and fought for a better country in their own homeland.

It's true. That is what they should do. I sometimes see foreigners with their home country flags on display. When you ask them why, they will tell you it's because they are still so proud of their home country and love their country and the people. One has to wonder, why they don't stay in their countries and try to improve things. Fleeing and illegally residing in other countries is not the answer and is not helping the people in their respective countries, whether it be Palestine, Mexico, etc.

They are proud of their heritage...there is nothing wrong with that. Where I live we have a huge Italian-American population. We celebrate every hear with an Italian heritage festival. They are still every bit as American as you and I.

Why didn't our ancestors stay in their countries and improve things?

Our ancestors didn't arrive here and do this:

Auntie Zeituni had no job skills, no special talent, no compelling reason to keep her here in America as an asset to our culture or our economy. She didn’t value the American Dream. She was a dependency nightmare. She collected $700 a month in welfare benefits and disability payments totaling $51,000. Somehow, Auntie Zeituni also drummed up money to apply for asylum and finagled her way into both federal and state public housing in Boston.

She contributed nothing to this country. The only “work” she did was gaming the system, complaining about her lot and blaming everyone else for her problems while they subsidized her 14-year illegal overstay.
​

No Welcome Wagon for them, no free housing, no welfare. They worked or starved or went back home. They lived in what they could afford, not state-provided low income housing. The parents paid directly for their schooling, they didn't get $11,000 per year per child subsidies from the local citizenry. If they were ill they paid for their own doctor, received church charity or suffered, they didn't get state provided no-limits Medicaid.

Yes, in order to receive benefits, you should have to have paid into the system through taxes legally, of course. This is a no brainer for me. I am totally against illegal immigration. There are many reasons to be against it, and very reasons I've seen put forth to support it. While I feel sorry for some people and their terrible predicaments, we cannot afford to save the world. There is a limit on what we can afford, and our money is limited to what is paid in. This means that we have to have a lot more people working and paying into the system than those collecting off the system. The more people on the welfare, the more stress on the system and on us taxpayers.

Italy has a negative birth rate and fewer young people coming than going. They actually need an influx of young workers but aren't too keen on Palestinians.

1.) That's for Italy to decide, not for infiltrators to decide on behalf of Italy.
2.) Italy doesn't need more young people, it needs more NET TAXPAYERS. Adding more welfare cases doesn't help Italy.
3.) Italy seems to have decided and they said No.

 

[Rikurzhen]

If it makes you feel better you can think of it as an invading force being sunk by pirates. The pirates did both Italy and Sweden a favor. Every single person there would have cost Italy money, meaning that Italians would be ROBBED in order to support these strangers. Each of us is entitled to defend ourselves with deadly force in order to prevent violence being done to us. Being robbed is violence. Italians were saved from having violence committed against them.

Those people should have stayed and fought for a better country in their own homeland.

It's true. That is what they should do. I sometimes see foreigners with their home country flags on display. When you ask them why, they will tell you it's because they are still so proud of their home country and love their country and the people. One has to wonder, why they don't stay in their countries and try to improve things. Fleeing and illegally residing in other countries is not the answer and is not helping the people in their respective countries, whether it be Palestine, Mexico, etc.

I don't know, Chris. If I thought I could get my family out from under Hamas's yoke and could afford to do so with reasonable risk, I might just take the chance.

I really don't know what I'd do in that situation. I've never been in such a situation. I would like to think that I would try to immigrate legally rather than illegally though. Also, I think that if you are really in a bad spot, you can apply for asylum, so we help those that we can, but we cannot realistically help everyone. There are too many.

Asylum works under international law by directing asylum seekers to neighboring lands, not to pick and choose the best lands. For Palestinians, the countries should be Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, Israel, Turkey, Algeria, Iraq, Syria, etc. Not freaking Sweden up near the Arctic Circle.

You just listed the countries that EXPELLED the Palestinians.

NOBODY wants to live with them; the other Arabs do like their willingness to die for them.

Odd, isn't it?

 

[Coyote]

I listened to this on the way to work yesterday - it's hard to believe someone could deliberately do this...

Out of 450 people, only 11 survivors. This man was adrift for 4 days before rescue. His wife and two little daughters drowned.

A mass murder in the Mediterranean leaves nearly 450 lost at sea including this man s family Public Radio International

This article has more info on the overall problem of human smuggling in that area: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/21/w...eadly-journey-from-middle-east-to-europe.html

A terrible tragedy which raises some painful questions.
Where is the brotherly compassion from their fellow Muslims for these hapless and desperate Gaza escapees?
Why did it take nearly 2 months to hit the news?
Given the "grinding poverty" we are told by some defines life in Gaza, how did this family "scrape together" the money?
When will the international community and some here admit the trouble with life in Gaza is - drum roll, please - HAMAS?

Actually the real question is this.

Where is the compassion by anyone on this thread?

Unfucking believable.

 

[Mojo2]

I listened to this on the way to work yesterday - it's hard to believe someone could deliberately do this...

Out of 450 people, only 11 survivors. This man was adrift for 4 days before rescue. His wife and two little daughters drowned.




A mass murder in the Mediterranean leaves nearly 450 lost at sea including this man s family Public Radio International

They left on September 6, crowding into small motorboats. They were transferred onto different boats over the next few days, each one more crowded than the last. All the water and food that Shukri brought went missing; he thinks someone stole it.

“We were so tired. We were vomiting. We were dizzy,” Shukri said.

The passengers were then squeezed together onto another boat. The pump on that boat stopped working, according to some reports, but the passengers refused to move to yet another boat, this one even smaller. As arguments broke out, Shukri said, a ship with Egyptian men came out of nowhere and repeatedly rammed the boat. It began to sink.

Shukri fell into the ocean — he doesn’t know how to swim. His wife and his 4-year-old daughter, Ritaj, were near him, and his wife screamed out his nickname: "Shaker!"

He couldn’t do anything for them, he said, his voice overtaken by tears.

This article has more info on the overall problem of human smuggling in that area: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/21/w...eadly-journey-from-middle-east-to-europe.html

Although every life IS precious, if these weren't likely a boatful of adult racists and juveniles being brought up that way, I would be more upset.

But this was horribly inhumane.

 

[Roadrunner]

M

I listened to this on the way to work yesterday - it's hard to believe someone could deliberately do this...

Out of 450 people, only 11 survivors. This man was adrift for 4 days before rescue. His wife and two little daughters drowned.

A mass murder in the Mediterranean leaves nearly 450 lost at sea including this man s family Public Radio International

This article has more info on the overall problem of human smuggling in that area: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/21/w...eadly-journey-from-middle-east-to-europe.html

A terrible tragedy which raises some painful questions.
Where is the brotherly compassion from their fellow Muslims for these hapless and desperate Gaza escapees?
Why did it take nearly 2 months to hit the news?
Given the "grinding poverty" we are told by some defines life in Gaza, how did this family "scrape together" the money?
When will the international community and some here admit the trouble with life in Gaza is - drum roll, please - HAMAS?

Actually the real question is this.

Where is the compassion by anyone on this thread?

Unfucking believable.

My compassion for Palestinians ended many atrocities ago.

About the time one murdered Bobby Kennedy.