A fly on the wall

[eric]

Boy would it not be fun to listen to the conversations going on right now between the hopeless 9 and their PR people !

 

[jimnyc]

If public opinion in Iraq overwhelmingly changes, and I think it will, that will all but assure GWB a 2nd term. If any WMD should surface between now and July it would also solidify their demise.

Squirm, dems, squirm!

 

[DKSuddeth]

although the capture of hussein will certainly raise the presidents popularity, never forget that people vote with their wallets.

If more people arent working and making a decent income it wont matter how the iraq war goes for GW.

 

[eric]

Some agreement here, but two things :

One, I have seen no good economic plan come from any of the 9, that would change employment numbers in reality not just theory.

Second, the economic recovery will continue and I feel pretty confident we will see the employment situation improve by the time elections roll around.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
although the capture of hussein will certainly raise the presidents popularity, never forget that people vote with their wallets.

If more people arent working and making a decent income it wont matter how the iraq war goes for GW.

I'm with ya, DK. I've been unemployed for quite some time as well. Although mostly by choice and I haven't been looking as of late, the job market is still pretty harsh. I think we'll see it slowly picking up steam along with the economy.

 

[DKSuddeth]

One, I have seen no good economic plan come from any of the 9, that would change employment numbers in reality not just theory.

although no 'decent' economic plan seems to be forthcoming, people will generally take a new approach over a markedly slow one, even if that new approach is vague.

Second, the economic recovery will continue and I feel pretty confident we will see the employment situation improve by the time elections roll around.

I certainly hope so, two things need to happen for the average laborer to feel this recovery. More jobs available and more medium to high paying jobs available.

Lots of us IT workers took it in the seat of our pants due to globalization. I don't know how it affected Jim, or anyone else, but I know that I wasn't a 80k+ a year worker and I am certainly looking at a pay cut just to work in a field I studied for 13 years. Just to find work, I'm looking at making 25% less than before. If too many people are faced with the same aspect, It doesn't look good for the republicans.

 

[eric]

although no 'decent' economic plan seems to be forthcoming, people will generally take a new approach over a markedly slow one, even if that new approach is vague.

You are right, and it is ashame that people make bad business decisions everyday.

I am well aware of the problems in the world of IT, that is my business. Here you will get little disagreement from me, it is disgracefull what is happening, and like I have said I am currently in a battle royal with the board over outsourcing. They want to outsource most of our programming to India.

 

[DKSuddeth]

I am well aware of the problems in the world of IT, that is my business. Here you will get little disagreement from me, it is disgracefull what is happening, and like I have said I am currently in a battle royal with the board over outsourcing. They want to outsource most of our programming to India.

for this board right here?

let me explain why this is not necessarily a good idea, for whoever cares to listen.

http://www.nwc.com/showitem.jhtml?articleID=15201900

What are my options if my highly productive, 15-person software team generates only one-third the output our customers demand? I was certain that augmenting our team with offshore development was the right answer. It wasn't, at least for a small project we recently outsourced to an Indian firm. Here's our story.

Personally, I was excited about the promise of offshore outsourcing. If it worked, we'd be heroes to the business. Philosophically, I view free trade as highly beneficial to its participants.

The Tier 1 Indian vendor we invited to implement the project was successfully supporting our Siebel 7 sales-force-automation implementation, so both sides thought this project would be a slam dunk. The vendor agreed to take on the project for a fixed fee of $20,000, with a nine-week time line.

To avoid finger-pointing, everyone agreed that the vendor should perform all phases of the project, from gathering business requirements through QA (quality assurance). Life Time's internal staff would monitor and participate in every way necessary for the project to succeed. If the project proved successful (defined as anything shy of disaster), we promised a small fortune in project work.

The project got off to a good start. The vendor's business analyst met frequently with the real-estate division's users and, with the on-site liaison, worked furiously to document all the functional and user interface requirements within four weeks.

By week three, however, our internal lead business analyst threw up a red flag. His review of the functional specs exposed problems in the requirements, particularly in the interface specs. For example, the UI as laid out forced the users to re-enter data they had previously entered. Plus, the screen flow was illogical and confusing. The on-site liaison countered that though the UI had problems, it ostensibly complied with the documented business requirements.


To ensure that we would get what we needed, we extended the project time line, agreed to a cost increase of $7,000 to allow for additional analysis and better interface design, and dedicated internal Life Time analysis and UI people to guide the final version of the documentation.

Once offshore, however, the project started down the slippery slope. Upon receiving the offshore company's database design, Life Time's lead data architect declared it to be the worst he'd ever seen. There were so many critical database flaws--more than 100--that our architects were unable to log all of the defects within the scheduled one-week review period.


The database was not the only problem area. Determined to dazzle us with their software prowess, the offshore developers insisted on completing the entire code design before allowing us to review it (we had requested an early design sample to head off any problems). Naively confident in their original code design, the offshore team had launched immediately into writing Java code before checking the code design into CVS for our review. Tragically, our review determined that the offshore team's design patterns weren't in accordance with the standards Life Time follows, invalidating all the offshore team's Java code.

This story goes on, but the trend shows that it had numerous problems. What this company, and others, continued to do is attempt to validate the cost savings in terms of fixed salaries. This company continued to use offshoring for a project that failed numerous times and had to be re-organized all in the name of 'cutting costs'. I ask you, where do we want to go? lowest cost possible with innumerous headaches, worries, and re-organizing? Or do we work for the best product and the best conditions?

Microsoft, as well as other big companies, have done things the fastest and cheapest way possible and look where its gotten them. Yes, they are cash rich and undeniably one of the most popular software makers but look at the security nightmares they deal with, not to mention the PR issues they face. Where do we draw the line?

 

[eric]

for this board right here?

No, the board of directors of the Corp. I run.

 

[DKSuddeth]

gotcha.

 

[eric]

let me explain why this is not necessarily a good idea, for whoever cares to listen

I care, and no it is not a good idea, not at all. I run across these nightmares every day in my contacts with other companies, in the long term it will backfire, but in the short term it is hard to convince the stockholders to spend an extra $50,000 per year per employee.

We should not be that hasty though to lay all the blame on our government and our corporations. Yes greed has played a large part in this, but let us not forget the consumer, whether an individual or a business. Can you honestly tell me that you would pay more for an American made product rather than a less expensive import? This problem started many years ago in mass manufacturing and is now showing its ugly head in the service industries.

 

[DKSuddeth]

We should not be that hasty though to lay all the blame on our government and our corporations.

you are correct, not all the blame lay with them.

Can you honestly tell me that you would pay more for an American made product rather than a less expensive import?

I do , as often as possible. I have to admit that there are times when I'm left with no choice in the matter due to finances. family medical issues generally eat up half my income or more.

In other purchases, yes. I bought a Pontiac for my family car instead of the honda my wife wanted. It was about 4,000 more expensive but it was american. Wouldn't you know, 2 months after I bought the pontiac they made public their decision to open a R&D center in India.

This problem started many years ago in mass manufacturing and is now showing its ugly head in the service industries.

This is the part that really burns my ass. When I was discharged from active duty I entered the manufacturing labor base. Thats when I started to self teach myself the IT field. I was lucky enough to leave the manufacturing arena before jobs started hemoraging fast but alot of my friends and family were not. The struggle to maintain even a modest lifestyle wears on people.

As to the blame on this, I would seriously like to see an investigation done on just how much money was given to the ITAA to rattle off reports of 800,000+ IT jobs going unfilled for years in a row and how that developed into the corporate push for offshoring. I believe that would be a story and a half.

 

[eric]

I do , as often as possible

I do also, I just wish more people thought this way.

like to see an investigation done on just how much money was given to the ITAA to rattle off reports of 800,000+ IT jobs going unfilled for years in a row and how that developed into the corporate push for offshoring. I believe that would be a story and a half.

Agreed ! I think it would be a most interesting read.

 

[jon_forward]

It was all staged. they timed it wrong... yep. I can hear it all now. the creek without a paddle story comes to mind..

 

[Sevendogs]

I do not know how Iraq war would end for sure, but it will be a burden on our budget. The economy still looks bad to me. Besides, I would never vote for a president, who allows snowmobiles in Yallowstone. This alone makes him dead as my president.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Sevendogs
I do not know how Iraq war would end for sure, but it will be a burden on our budget. The economy still looks bad to me. Besides, I would never vote for a president, who allows snowmobiles in Yallowstone. This alone makes him dead as my president.

Oh no, snowmobiles! What's this world coming to?

Nobody cares what you think anyway. Have you bothered to answer the questions asked of you in previous threads?

 

[MtnBiker]

Originally posted by Sevendogs
I do not know how Iraq war would end for sure, but it will be a burden on our budget. The economy still looks bad to me. Besides, I would never vote for a president, who allows snowmobiles in Yallowstone. This alone makes him dead as my president.

Oh man that's a riot, so is every President after TR and before Clinton dead as a president to you as well, becuase they all allowed snowmobiling in Yellowstone.

 

[lilcountriegal]

I would never vote for a president, who allows snowmobiles in Yallowstone.

Yallowstone? Where's that? Is that some new entertainment park in the hills of West Virginy?

 

[MtnBiker]

Originally posted by lilcountriegal
Yallowstone? Where's that? Is that some new entertainment park in the hills of West Virginy?

That's pretty funny.

 

[jon_forward]

so. are we suppose to wait till the economy is right, the moon is full and all the stars are lined up to do something about a threat to humanity? take your snowmobile and go home.