A Fight To The Death!

[PoliticalChic]

The battle? Stephen J. Gould's neo-Darwinism's attack on religion.




Communism has an abiding antipathy for religion. One would be hard pressed to find an argument with that premise.
To put it another way, atheism is a tenet of Marxism.




Living in a free society, would it not be accurate to believe, as Thomas Jefferson did, "But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."

Yet, for the atheist, especially the science-devotee who is an atheist, attacks on religious folks, or on religion, becomes an avocation.




When I established that Friedrich Engels and Karl Marx fell in love with Darwin's theory at first sight, because is served as a hammer to beat down the idea that there was a purpose in nature, a design, one poster became incensed!
Rabid, even.
And, when I showed that prominent evolutionary biologists were atheistic Marxists....well...one would have thought that I insulted her parenthood!


" There are no connections whatsoever between a scientific fact and communism."
" You have failed to prove that there has been a single evolutionary biologist who was a marxist."
" The Theory of Evolution is the fundamental basis of all biological science."

And when it was revealed that Stephen J. Gould was both brought up by Marxists, and based his support of evolutionary theory on Marx....

" How does Gould admit to his Marxism by lauding the way in which his science is informed by his beliefs?
Gould was not a Marxist.
I used to subscribe to Natural History Magazine when Gould wrote monthly columns. He never once espoused any kind of political philosophy in any of his monthly science columns."



Well...you be the judge:


1. " The Socialist Worker Online mentions that Gould was on the advisory boards of the journalRethinking Marxism and the Brecht Forum, sponsor of the New York Marxist School.
... Gould was on the advisory boards of the journal Rethinking Marxism and the Brecht Forum, sponsor of the New York Marxist School, which was dedicated to using "Marx's uniquely valuable contributions…to study conditions today and possibilities for transcending capitalism and building an emancipatory society."
Gasper, Phil, ‘A scientist of the people’, Socialist Worker Online, 7 June 2002, p8




2. A famous quote made by Gould is that within his Jewish-Marxist family subculture he learned his Marxism ‘at his daddy's knee’. He has said that his politics were very different from his father’s, but never explained exactly how. Some have speculated that this referred to a rejection of Stalinism.

Whatever the meaning, it is clear from Gould’s work that he was strongly influenced by Marxist beliefs. In his book The Culture of Critique, evolutionist author Kevin MacDonald writes that Gould has ‘acknowledged that his theory of evolution as punctuated equilibria was attractive to him as a Marxist because it posited periodic revolutionary upheavals in evolution rather than conservative, gradualist change’
MacDonald, Kevin, ‘The Culture of Critique’




3. Many agree that Gould allowed his Marxist philosophy to influence his science. He has even been labelled, by other evolutionists, ‘muddle-headed, hypocritical, blinded by Marxism, and rhetorically dishonest’
Stephen Jay Gould: Marxist and Atheist? by David Noebel, Summit Ministries, 23 March 2007 (includes reply to Gould’s widow).




4. " The figure he most closely resembled in these respects was the British biologist of the 1930’s, J. B. S. Haldane, a founder of the modern genetical theory of evolution, a wonderful essayist on science for the general public, and an idiosyncratic Marxist and columnist for the Daily Worker who finally split with the Communist Party over its demand that scientific claims follow Party doctrine. What characterizes Steve Gould’s work is its consistent radicalism.

..... The temptation to see some simple connection between Steve’s theory of episodic evolution and his adherence to Marx’s theory of historical stages should be resisted. The connection is much deeper. It lies in his radicalism.

He was active in the anti-Vietnam War movement, in the work of Science for the People, and of the New York Marxist School. He identified himself as a Marxist but, like Darwinism, it is never quite certain what that identification implies. Despite our close comradeship in many things over many years, we never had a discussion of Marx’s theory of history or of political economy. More to the point, however, by insisting on his adherence to a Marxist viewpoint, he took the opportunity offered to him by his immense fame and legitimacy as a public intellectual to make a broad public think again about the validity of a Marxist analysis.
Stephen Jay Gould? What Does it Mean to Be a Radical? :: Monthly Review






And, let's remember, Stephen Gould became famous in his attempt to prop up Darwin's theory by altering it as follows: evolution was not gradual...but new species popped up via 'punctuated equalibrium,'.....an idea he got from his Marxism.

Of course I will provide more indicia...but the questions that pop up are
why proponents of a flawed theory....Darwin's....take criticism so very personally....and why another's religion need be attacked.

They have the need and desire to hide the connections between Darwin's thesis and communism, atheism, nihilism.....
Why?

And why so bitter?




Shakespeare said it best:
" "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."



Think I should wait for an apology?

 

[PoliticalChic]

How about another cream pie in the kisser of that rabid Darwinist:

5. "And in The Panda's Thumb Gould points out that: "In the Soviet Union, for example, scientists are trained with a very different philosophy of change - the so-called dialectical laws, reformulated by Engels from Hegel's philosophy. The dialectical laws are explicitly punctuational. They speak, for example, of the 'transformation of quantity into quality.' This may sound like mumbo jumbo, but it suggests that change occurs in large leaps following a slow accumulation of stresses that a system resists until it reaches the breaking point. Heat water and it eventually boils. Oppress the workers more and more and bring on the revolution. Eldredge and I were fascinated to learn that many Russian palaeontologists support a model similar to our punctuated equilibria."

Gould was not prepared to go all the way and accept that dialectics can be applied not only to science, and palaeontology in particular, but to society itself. Like many scientists he used the dialectical method in his own sphere of studies without grasping the overall outlook of Marxism. However, through his studies he made a major contribution to the development of human thought and of our understanding of the world we live in. Above all he provided more scientific evidence that strengthens the position of Marxism, for it proves that dialectical materialism is not a fantastic notion thought up by Marx himself, but it is simply the reflection of the real material world as it is."
A tribute to a great scientist: Stephen Jay Gould



" How does Gould admit to his Marxism by lauding the way in which his science is informed by his beliefs?
Gould was not a Marxist."

Say what????

 

[WinterBorn]

I have seen the occasional atheist who is anti-religion. But most are simply apathetic about it.

I notice you have a serious thing about attacking Darwin, the theory of evolution, and atheists.

Funny that you want to point fingers at people for doing what you have been doing.

 

[Hollie]

How about another cream pie in the kisser of that rabid Darwinist:

5. "And in The Panda's Thumb Gould points out that: "In the Soviet Union, for example, scientists are trained with a very different philosophy of change - the so-called dialectical laws, reformulated by Engels from Hegel's philosophy. The dialectical laws are explicitly punctuational. They speak, for example, of the 'transformation of quantity into quality.' This may sound like mumbo jumbo, but it suggests that change occurs in large leaps following a slow accumulation of stresses that a system resists until it reaches the breaking point. Heat water and it eventually boils. Oppress the workers more and more and bring on the revolution. Eldredge and I were fascinated to learn that many Russian palaeontologists support a model similar to our punctuated equilibria."

Gould was not prepared to go all the way and accept that dialectics can be applied not only to science, and palaeontology in particular, but to society itself. Like many scientists he used the dialectical method in his own sphere of studies without grasping the overall outlook of Marxism. However, through his studies he made a major contribution to the development of human thought and of our understanding of the world we live in. Above all he provided more scientific evidence that strengthens the position of Marxism, for it proves that dialectical materialism is not a fantastic notion thought up by Marx himself, but it is simply the reflection of the real material world as it is."
A tribute to a great scientist: Stephen Jay Gould



" How does Gould admit to his Marxism by lauding the way in which his science is informed by his beliefs?
Gould was not a Marxist."

Say what????

Does Harun Yahya pay you by the "quote" for this silliness?

 

[Hollie]

How about another cream pie in the kisser of that rabid Darwinist:

5. "And in The Panda's Thumb Gould points out that: "In the Soviet Union, for example, scientists are trained with a very different philosophy of change - the so-called dialectical laws, reformulated by Engels from Hegel's philosophy. The dialectical laws are explicitly punctuational. They speak, for example, of the 'transformation of quantity into quality.' This may sound like mumbo jumbo, but it suggests that change occurs in large leaps following a slow accumulation of stresses that a system resists until it reaches the breaking point. Heat water and it eventually boils. Oppress the workers more and more and bring on the revolution. Eldredge and I were fascinated to learn that many Russian palaeontologists support a model similar to our punctuated equilibria."

Gould was not prepared to go all the way and accept that dialectics can be applied not only to science, and palaeontology in particular, but to society itself. Like many scientists he used the dialectical method in his own sphere of studies without grasping the overall outlook of Marxism. However, through his studies he made a major contribution to the development of human thought and of our understanding of the world we live in. Above all he provided more scientific evidence that strengthens the position of Marxism, for it proves that dialectical materialism is not a fantastic notion thought up by Marx himself, but it is simply the reflection of the real material world as it is."
A tribute to a great scientist: Stephen Jay Gould



" How does Gould admit to his Marxism by lauding the way in which his science is informed by his beliefs?
Gould was not a Marxist."

Say what????

Since we proposed punctuated equilibria to explain trends, it is infuriating to be quoted again and again by creationists -- whether through design or stupidity, I do not know -- as admitting that the fossil record includes no transitional forms. The punctuations occur at the level of species; directional trends (on the staircase model) are rife at the higher level of transitions within major groups.

[Stephen Jay Gould, Evolution as Fact and Theory Science and Creationism, (New York: Oxford University Press, 1984), p. 124.]

 

[Hollie]

Creation science has not entered the curriculum for a reason so simple and so basic that we often forget to mention it: because it is false, and because good teachers understand exactly why it is false. What could be more destructive of that most fragile yet most precious commodity in our entire intellectual heritage -- good teaching -- than a bill forcing honorable teachers to sully their sacred trust by granting equal treatment to a doctrine not only known to be false, but calculated to undermine any general understanding of science as an enterprise?

Stephen Jay Gould, The Skeptical Inquirer

 

[PoliticalChic]

I have seen the occasional atheist who is anti-religion. But most are simply apathetic about it.

I notice you have a serious thing about attacking Darwin, the theory of evolution, and atheists.

Funny that you want to point fingers at people for doing what you have been doing.

Let's see how quickly I can prove, once again, that you are talking through your hat.


Where have I attacked Darwin, or atheists?


You're on......

 

[Hollie]

A Fight to the Finish...

and PC brings only fundie nonsense.



The argument that the literal story of Genesis can qualify as science collapses on three major grounds: the creationists' need to invoke miracles in order to compress the events of the earth's history into the biblical span of a few thousand years; their unwillingness to abandon claims clearly disproved, including the assertion that all fossils are products of Noah's flood; and their reliance upon distortion, misquote, half-quote, and citation out of context to characterize the ideas of their opponents.

Stephen Jay Gould, The Verdict on Creationism, The Skeptical Inquirer, Winter 87/88, pg. 186

 

[Hollie]

Creationist critics often charge that evolution cannot be tested, and therefore cannot be viewed as a properly scientific subject at all. This claim is rhetorical nonsense.

Stephen Jay Gould, Dinosaur in a Haystack

 

[WinterBorn]

I have seen the occasional atheist who is anti-religion. But most are simply apathetic about it.

I notice you have a serious thing about attacking Darwin, the theory of evolution, and atheists.

Funny that you want to point fingers at people for doing what you have been doing.

Let's see how quickly I can prove, once again, that you are talking through your hat.


Where have I attacked Darwin, or atheists?


You're on......

Well.....

You have stated that religion and morality are so closely linked they cannot be separated.

And you have implied that all who accept evolution as the best explanation for the diversity of the species on earth are either dupes or Marxists.

Neither of those is particularly flattering.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I have seen the occasional atheist who is anti-religion. But most are simply apathetic about it.

I notice you have a serious thing about attacking Darwin, the theory of evolution, and atheists.

Funny that you want to point fingers at people for doing what you have been doing.

Let's see how quickly I can prove, once again, that you are talking through your hat.


Where have I attacked Darwin, or atheists?


You're on......

Well.....

You have stated that religion and morality are so closely linked they cannot be separated.

And you have implied that all who accept evolution as the best explanation for the diversity of the species on earth are either dupes or Marxists.

Neither of those is particularly flattering.

Now, now....don't be a naughty boy.

You made a claim that isn't true....and have to back away from same.

"I notice you have a serious thing about attacking Darwin, the theory of evolution, and atheists."


I have not attacked Charles Darwin, nor atheists.

Tortuous though your post may be...I accept the retraction of those aspects.


As for Darwin's theory....I don't have any problem with those who endorse same, but want to make it clear that the endorsement is based on faith, not on evidence.



My greatest prob with this post is your use of the word "implied."

I say what I mean, and mean what I say. And I support what I say.
I don't 'imply.'


Let's clarify: Darwin's theory may very well be " the best explanation for the diversity of the species on earth."
(There are numerous other theories proposed by scientists...including the idea that interplanetary aliens installed life on earth.)

Darwin's is elegant. And thoughtful.

At the same time, it's most well known scientist proponents are Marxists, e.g., Gould.

And in society today, secularism, communism of various forms, hold sway. And those folks point to Darwin's theory as support for same.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Was Stephen Gould a Marxist whose neo-Darwinism was based on that political philosophy?


You betcha!


6. "Many of his critics--in particular proponents of sociobiology and other theorists of biological determinism--believed that he allowed his leftist political beliefs to govern his observations. Gould himself, like his colleagues Richard Lewontin and Steven Rose, freely acknowledged Marxist sympathies while insisting that his conclusions were supported by objectively gathered data.
American National Biography Online: Gould, Stephen Jay

 

[Hollie]

Was Stephen Gould a Marxist whose neo-Darwinism was based on that political philosophy?


You betcha!


6. "Many of his critics--in particular proponents of sociobiology and other theorists of biological determinism--believed that he allowed his leftist political beliefs to govern his observations. Gould himself, like his colleagues Richard Lewontin and Steven Rose, freely acknowledged Marxist sympathies while insisting that his conclusions were supported by objectively gathered data.
American National Biography Online: Gould, Stephen Jay

Wow. Your silly, non-existent connections between "Neo-Darwinism" and Marxism are getting more pathetic by the post.

 

[PoliticalChic]

No one able to deny the connection between Darwin's theory and communism?
Or that Stephen J. Gould, a progenitor of punctuated equilibrium, was an admitted Marxist, for whom Marxism was integral with his neo-Darwinism.....

Great....but, how about a little more:

7. "The late Stephen Jay Gould; jewish palaeontologist, public intellectual and marxist,... Gould’s involvement in Marxist causes; such as Students for a Democratic Society (along with his celebrated jewish confrere Richard Lewontin who still regularly writes for Trotksyite rags such as the ‘New Left Review&#8217,...

...Gould was; like Lewontin, prolific in his support of Marxist causes and his involvement with far left politics is not even a subject for contention. Pearson also informs us of the fact that Gould and Lewontin were both also involved in the SDS campaign of intimidation against evolutionary scientists and socio-biologists who disagreed with their ‘science for the people’ pseudo-Lamarckian (or neo-Lysenkoist) approach to human biological and behavioural studies." Semitic Controversies: Lies, Damned Lies and Stephen Jay Gould




"....not even a subject for contention...."
Know what that means?
Not even open to being questioned.


And this..."...Gould and Lewontin were both also involved in the SDS campaign of intimidation...."
Sounds more like communism than science, doesn't it.

 

[Hollie]

No one able to deny the connection between Darwin's theory and communism?
Or that Stephen J. Gould, a progenitor of punctuated equilibrium, was an admitted Marxist, for whom Marxism was integral with his neo-Darwinism.....

Great....but, how about a little more:

7. "The late Stephen Jay Gould; jewish palaeontologist, public intellectual and marxist,... Gould’s involvement in Marxist causes; such as Students for a Democratic Society (along with his celebrated jewish confrere Richard Lewontin who still regularly writes for Trotksyite rags such as the ‘New Left Review’),...

...Gould was; like Lewontin, prolific in his support of Marxist causes and his involvement with far left politics is not even a subject for contention. Pearson also informs us of the fact that Gould and Lewontin were both also involved in the SDS campaign of intimidation against evolutionary scientists and socio-biologists who disagreed with their ‘science for the people’ pseudo-Lamarckian (or neo-Lysenkoist) approach to human biological and behavioural studies." Semitic Controversies: Lies, Damned Lies and Stephen Jay Gould




"....not even a subject for contention...."
Know what that means?
Not even open to being questioned.


And this..."...Gould and Lewontin were both also involved in the SDS campaign of intimidation...."
Sounds more like communism than science, doesn't it.

Your silly cutting and pasting just reeks of desperation. Quick, time to scour Harun Yahya for more phony "quotes"


Evolution is one of the two or three most primally fascinating subjects in all the sciences.

Stephen Jay Gould


Sounds more like science than religious fundamentalism.

 

[Old Rocks]

PC keeps associating Marxism with Darwin's works, not having the education to realize that one of the primary influences on Darwin was Adam Smith and Lyle. Marxist's supported Lysenko, not Darwin.

 

[PoliticalChic]

PC keeps associating Marxism with Darwin's works, not having the education to realize that one of the primary influences on Darwin was Adam Smith and Lyle. Marxist's supported Lysenko, not Darwin.

So very sorry that you can't read well, Rocks.

The whole thread is very clear and very specific: it is proof that the most famous of Darwin's modern supporters, Stephen J. Gould, is an inveterate, congenital Marxist.



Now that I've explained the issue to which you.....inadvertently.....subscribed, you'd agree, wouldn't you?

 

[Hollie]

PC keeps associating Marxism with Darwin's works, not having the education to realize that one of the primary influences on Darwin was Adam Smith and Lyle. Marxist's supported Lysenko, not Darwin.

So very sorry that you can't read well, Rocks.

The whole thread is very clear and very specific: it is proof that the most famous of Darwin's modern supporters, Stephen J. Gould, is an inveterate, congenital Marxist.



Now that I've explained the issue to which you.....inadvertently.....subscribed, you'd agree, wouldn't you?

Which of course is false.

Only in the diseased mind of the inveterate, congenital fundamentalist would an established, modern theory of science be dismissed because the fundamentalists claim one scientist was a "Marxist".

Oh, the disease of Harun Yahya'ism.

 

[PoliticalChic]

What happened to the 'mystery poster,' the Gould supporter who claimed..

" There are no connections whatsoever between a scientific fact and communism."

" You have failed to prove that there has been a single evolutionary biologist who was a marxist."

" The Theory of Evolution is the fundamental basis of all biological science."

" How does Gould admit to his Marxism by lauding the way in which his science is informed by his beliefs?"

"Gould was not a Marxist."

"I used to subscribe to Natural History Magazine when Gould wrote monthly columns. He never once espoused any kind of political philosophy in any of his monthly science columns."






This thread was obviously dispositive....
...and so the source of the quotes above thought it was more noble to simply amble into the oblivion she so richly deserved, than to admit how wrong she was.


Here's why it is important to understand the communist philosophy of so many Darwin supporters: there is no hard evidence for Darwin's theory....and without it, Marx and Engel's view of history, and the attack on capitalism, and on the political philosophy of America's Founders falls flat.






One of the first readers of 'On the Origin of Species' was Friedrich Engels, then living in Manchester. He wrote to Karl Marx: "Darwin, by the way, whom I’m reading just now, is absolutely splendid. There was one aspect of teleology that had yet to be demolished, and that has now been done. Never before has so grandiose an attempt been made to demonstrate historical evolution in Nature, and certainly never to such good effect."
Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels, "Marx-Engels Collected Works" , vol. 40, p. 441.

 

[Old Rocks]

The battle? Stephen J. Gould's neo-Darwinism's attack on religion.




Communism has an abiding antipathy for religion. One would be hard pressed to find an argument with that premise.
To put it another way, atheism is a tenet of Marxism.




Living in a free society, would it not be accurate to believe, as Thomas Jefferson did, "But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."

Yet, for the atheist, especially the science-devotee who is an atheist, attacks on religious folks, or on religion, becomes an avocation.




When I established that Friedrich Engels and Karl Marx fell in love with Darwin's theory at first sight, because is served as a hammer to beat down the idea that there was a purpose in nature, a design, one poster became incensed!
Rabid, even.
And, when I showed that prominent evolutionary biologists were atheistic Marxists....well...one would have thought that I insulted her parenthood!


" There are no connections whatsoever between a scientific fact and communism."
" You have failed to prove that there has been a single evolutionary biologist who was a marxist."
" The Theory of Evolution is the fundamental basis of all biological science."

And when it was revealed that Stephen J. Gould was both brought up by Marxists, and based his support of evolutionary theory on Marx....

" How does Gould admit to his Marxism by lauding the way in which his science is informed by his beliefs?
Gould was not a Marxist.
I used to subscribe to Natural History Magazine when Gould wrote monthly columns. He never once espoused any kind of political philosophy in any of his monthly science columns."



Well...you be the judge:


1. " The Socialist Worker Online mentions that Gould was on the advisory boards of the journalRethinking Marxism and the Brecht Forum, sponsor of the New York Marxist School.
... Gould was on the advisory boards of the journal Rethinking Marxism and the Brecht Forum, sponsor of the New York Marxist School, which was dedicated to using "Marx's uniquely valuable contributions…to study conditions today and possibilities for transcending capitalism and building an emancipatory society."
Gasper, Phil, ‘A scientist of the people’, Socialist Worker Online, 7 June 2002, p8




2. A famous quote made by Gould is that within his Jewish-Marxist family subculture he learned his Marxism ‘at his daddy's knee’. He has said that his politics were very different from his father’s, but never explained exactly how. Some have speculated that this referred to a rejection of Stalinism.

Whatever the meaning, it is clear from Gould’s work that he was strongly influenced by Marxist beliefs. In his book The Culture of Critique, evolutionist author Kevin MacDonald writes that Gould has ‘acknowledged that his theory of evolution as punctuated equilibria was attractive to him as a Marxist because it posited periodic revolutionary upheavals in evolution rather than conservative, gradualist change’
MacDonald, Kevin, ‘The Culture of Critique’




3. Many agree that Gould allowed his Marxist philosophy to influence his science. He has even been labelled, by other evolutionists, ‘muddle-headed, hypocritical, blinded by Marxism, and rhetorically dishonest’
Stephen Jay Gould: Marxist and Atheist? by David Noebel, Summit Ministries, 23 March 2007 (includes reply to Gould’s widow).




4. " The figure he most closely resembled in these respects was the British biologist of the 1930’s, J. B. S. Haldane, a founder of the modern genetical theory of evolution, a wonderful essayist on science for the general public, and an idiosyncratic Marxist and columnist for the Daily Worker who finally split with the Communist Party over its demand that scientific claims follow Party doctrine. What characterizes Steve Gould’s work is its consistent radicalism.

..... The temptation to see some simple connection between Steve’s theory of episodic evolution and his adherence to Marx’s theory of historical stages should be resisted. The connection is much deeper. It lies in his radicalism.

He was active in the anti-Vietnam War movement, in the work of Science for the People, and of the New York Marxist School. He identified himself as a Marxist but, like Darwinism, it is never quite certain what that identification implies. Despite our close comradeship in many things over many years, we never had a discussion of Marx’s theory of history or of political economy. More to the point, however, by insisting on his adherence to a Marxist viewpoint, he took the opportunity offered to him by his immense fame and legitimacy as a public intellectual to make a broad public think again about the validity of a Marxist analysis.
Stephen Jay Gould? What Does it Mean to Be a Radical? :: Monthly Review






And, let's remember, Stephen Gould became famous in his attempt to prop up Darwin's theory by altering it as follows: evolution was not gradual...but new species popped up via 'punctuated equalibrium,'.....an idea he got from his Marxism.

Of course I will provide more indicia...but the questions that pop up are
why proponents of a flawed theory....Darwin's....take criticism so very personally....and why another's religion need be attacked.

They have the need and desire to hide the connections between Darwin's thesis and communism, atheism, nihilism.....
Why?

And why so bitter?




Shakespeare said it best:
" "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."



Think I should wait for an apology?

You win. Steven Jay Gould is already dead.