A Conservative's view on waterboarding

[Lonestar_logic]

Come on man use a little fore thought. We probably won't get any evidence until these guys start showing up at the VA hospitals with complaints. The use of agent orange was thought to be a good idea at the time because there was no proof that it hurt anyone until it came out in the aftermath that it did and this is the same rationale you are using now. This I call flawed thinking.

You seem to think that "torturers" didn't exist until now. And my thinking is flawed?

Tortures did exist before now, and until now we put them into prison not into the employ of the US government.

Cite one example where the US government hired a "torturer".

 

[bigrebnc1775]

from the link....

Bin Laden: AUTHENTIC INTERVIEW
by Carol A. Valentine
Curator, Waco Holocaust Electronic Museum

thanks for dropping by


seek help

How ever yoiu view the source matters not to me. The fact which you cannot refute ius the FBI did not want Bin Laden for the attacks on the world trade center. and the original source is not the only interview source.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5tmogd9xp4]YouTube - Bill Cooper Predicts 911 Attack/Bin Laden Interview - June 28, 2001[/ame]

Have you been paying attention lately to his journals? Did you notice that he was upset with his followers for not going after US targets more frequently? Catch up and then come back.

If it's information given by this governmennt I don't believe it. The U.S. government lies to much. So you need to catch up and we can talk.

 

[spectrumc01]

You seem to think that "torturers" didn't exist until now. And my thinking is flawed?

Tortures did exist before now, and until now we put them into prison not into the employ of the US government.

Cite one example where the US government hired a "torturer".

Really....really you need one example of us hiring a torturer. Ok, here you go. After the 911 attacks we started rounding up so-called terrorists, at the time we could not torture them ourselves because we still had honor and integrity. So what we did was turn them over to countries like Turkey and Pakistan to do our torturing for us. That is called hiring torturers. Eventually we moved them to gitmo and started using our own torturers and soiled our honor and proved we have no integrity.

 

[del]

How ever yoiu view the source matters not to me. The fact which you cannot refute ius the FBI did not want Bin Laden for the attacks on the world trade center. and the original source is not the only interview source.

YouTube - Bill Cooper Predicts 911 Attack/Bin Laden Interview - June 28, 2001

Have you been paying attention lately to his journals? Did you notice that he was upset with his followers for not going after US targets more frequently? Catch up and then come back.

If it's information given by this governmennt I don't believe it. The U.S. government lies to much. So you need to catch up and we can talk.

so the govt lies too much, but you believe them when they tell you waterboarding isn't torture.

allrighty then

 

[Robert]

Tortures did exist before now, and until now we put them into prison not into the employ of the US government.

Cite one example where the US government hired a "torturer".

Really....really you need one example of us hiring a torturer. Ok, here you go. After the 911 attacks we started rounding up so-called terrorists, at the time we could not torture them ourselves because we still had honor and integrity. So what we did was turn them over to countries like Turkey and Pakistan to do our torturing for us. That is called hiring torturers. Eventually we moved them to gitmo and started using our own torturers and soiled our honor and proved we have no integrity.

Yes Were so Evil......Got it.
Gitmo Were so Evil.....Got it
Oversea's Were so Evil.....Got it


Why's this sounding like talking points?

 

[spectrumc01]

How ever yoiu view the source matters not to me. The fact which you cannot refute ius the FBI did not want Bin Laden for the attacks on the world trade center. and the original source is not the only interview source.

YouTube - Bill Cooper Predicts 911 Attack/Bin Laden Interview - June 28, 2001

Have you been paying attention lately to his journals? Did you notice that he was upset with his followers for not going after US targets more frequently? Catch up and then come back.

If it's information given by this governmennt I don't believe it. The U.S. government lies to much. So you need to catch up and we can talk.

If information given by the US government is unbelieved by you then there is no reason to contiunue this discussion with you. You are going to believe what you want regardless of the facts presented. You are a fanatic on this particular issue, and that is a shame.
Good day.

 

[Dr.Drock]

So now I "hate certain arabic countries" Pull your head out of your ass good grief get back to me when you've gotten some oxygen.

Alright I'll reword

The funniest thing about all this, is you actually don't get that you're pushing for us to employ the tactics that have caused you to hate terror groups.

"Do the same things terror groups are doing! I hate terror groups for doing those things! I love America so i hope we do those things!"

There is nothing funny about the Threat to our People that is poised by these animals I absolutely have zero interests in saving these people dignity in terms of us finding information to put a stop to these animals. Think about like this and the rest of your simpering Morally Superior tools might want to pay attention.

I view these actions which have been undertaken in the same light as me protecting my family when I say I have utterly no constraints when it comes to protecting them it is the same that I feel needs to be done for our Nation. There is no level to which I will stop to protect them.

Now you might not feel that way about your family or for that matter our Nation that's fine its your problem not mine but when it comes to this Nation and our Protection against these animals what ever is done to them to end this crap is absolutely fine with me to do otherwise means these Islamic tools are a threat to me and mine.

I see, the old "I love my family more" card.

I just don't want to see my country resort to Bin Laden/Stalin style tactics. That's all, and I don't think that's such a high standard.

You really revealed yourself when you showed that you have zero limitations in how far we should mutilate other human's bodies just to give you some false sense of security.

There's now nothing you can mock terrorists for besides being muslim (their worst characteristic to you). You can't mock them beheading americans, you can't mock them torturing people, kidnapping people, killing them, none of those principles are beneath you.

 

[spectrumc01]

Cite one example where the US government hired a "torturer".

Really....really you need one example of us hiring a torturer. Ok, here you go. After the 911 attacks we started rounding up so-called terrorists, at the time we could not torture them ourselves because we still had honor and integrity. So what we did was turn them over to countries like Turkey and Pakistan to do our torturing for us. That is called hiring torturers. Eventually we moved them to gitmo and started using our own torturers and soiled our honor and proved we have no integrity.

Yes Were so Evil......Got it.
Gitmo Were so Evil.....Got it
Oversea's Were so Evil.....Got it


Why's this sounding like talking points?

Don't confuse this with politics, it was wrong when GWB done it and it is wrong when Obama did it. Wrong is Wrong regardless who does it.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Have you been paying attention lately to his journals? Did you notice that he was upset with his followers for not going after US targets more frequently? Catch up and then come back.

If it's information given by this governmennt I don't believe it. The U.S. government lies to much. So you need to catch up and we can talk.

so the govt lies too much, but you believe them when they tell you waterboarding isn't torture.

allrighty then

I'm not the one that says water boarding is wrong. I am saying it's a matter of hypocrisy to suggest water boarding is wrong and think shooting an unarmed man is ok.

 

[del]

If it's information given by this governmennt I don't believe it. The U.S. government lies to much. So you need to catch up and we can talk.

so the govt lies too much, but you believe them when they tell you waterboarding isn't torture.

allrighty then

I'm not the one that says water boarding is wrong. I am saying it's a matter of hypocrisy to suggest water boarding is wrong and think shooting an unarmed man is ok.

thanks for clearing that up

 

[Valerie]

So now I "hate certain arabic countries" Pull your head out of your ass good grief get back to me when you've gotten some oxygen.

Alright I'll reword

The funniest thing about all this, is you actually don't get that you're pushing for us to employ the tactics that have caused you to hate terror groups.

"Do the same things terror groups are doing! I hate terror groups for doing those things! I love America so i hope we do those things!"

There is nothing funny about the Threat to our People that is poised by these animals I absolutely have zero interests in saving these people dignity in terms of us finding information to put a stop to these animals. Think about like this and the rest of your simpering Morally Superior tools might want to pay attention.

I view these actions which have been undertaken in the same light as me protecting my family when I say I have utterly no constraints when it comes to protecting them it is the same that I feel needs to be done for our Nation. There is no level to which I will stop to protect them.

Now you might not feel that way about your family or for that matter our Nation that's fine its your problem not mine but when it comes to this Nation and our Protection against these animals what ever is done to them to end this crap is absolutely fine with me to do otherwise means these Islamic tools are a threat to me and mine.

Would you EVEN go through an airport security screening without whining ?




Seriously, the thing is, at some point someone has to be brave enough to set a higher standard in order to break the cycle of human brutality. The moral high ground is not claimed by individuals in this thread but by all of us as citizens of the greatest nation on earth, who refuse to resort to such brutal measures as a matter of principle.

This does not mean we standby meekly as innocents get slaughtered, this means we resolve to defeat human brutality by legal and more civilized means. Together America rejects terrorism and the brutality of torture, and on these grounds we also protect the sacrifice of our own brave soldiers.





Judge Advocate Generals (JAGs) argued that not applying Geneva protections could harm U.S. troops in this and future conflicts. Secretary Powell also argued that applying Geneva would allow the U.S. to take the moral high ground and would "present a positive international posture".


Surely you're not calling THESE guys "simpering Morally Superior tools".

 

[bigrebnc1775]

so the govt lies too much, but you believe them when they tell you waterboarding isn't torture.

allrighty then

I'm not the one that says water boarding is wrong. I am saying it's a matter of hypocrisy to suggest water boarding is wrong and think shooting an unarmed man is ok.

thanks for clearing that up

You're welcome.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Your U.S. Government does far worse than dunking Terrorists' heads in water. And they do it on a daily basis. For example,they recently bombed and killed Gaddafi's Son and Grandchildren. What did Gaddafi's Son and Grandchildren have to do with anything? They also just shot & killed an unarmed man in his home and in front of his children. So all this whining about dunking Terrorists' heads in water really is just political Bullshit. The Left/Democrats wanted the power back and now that they have that power back,anything goes. "Water-Boarding" was a scam controversy. The U.S. Government does far worse than that all around the World on a daily basis. And guess what? It's both Democrats & Republicans doing it.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Tortures did exist before now, and until now we put them into prison not into the employ of the US government.

Cite one example where the US government hired a "torturer".

Really....really you need one example of us hiring a torturer. Ok, here you go. After the 911 attacks we started rounding up so-called terrorists, at the time we could not torture them ourselves because we still had honor and integrity. So what we did was turn them over to countries like Turkey and Pakistan to do our torturing for us. That is called hiring torturers. Eventually we moved them to gitmo and started using our own torturers and soiled our honor and proved we have no integrity.

Just you calling it "hiring" doesn't make it so. Where's the evidence? A DOD statement would suffice.


No one was ever waterboarded at Gitmo.

 

[Robert]

Alright I'll reword

The funniest thing about all this, is you actually don't get that you're pushing for us to employ the tactics that have caused you to hate terror groups.

"Do the same things terror groups are doing! I hate terror groups for doing those things! I love America so i hope we do those things!"

There is nothing funny about the Threat to our People that is poised by these animals I absolutely have zero interests in saving these people dignity in terms of us finding information to put a stop to these animals. Think about like this and the rest of your simpering Morally Superior tools might want to pay attention.

I view these actions which have been undertaken in the same light as me protecting my family when I say I have utterly no constraints when it comes to protecting them it is the same that I feel needs to be done for our Nation. There is no level to which I will stop to protect them.

Now you might not feel that way about your family or for that matter our Nation that's fine its your problem not mine but when it comes to this Nation and our Protection against these animals what ever is done to them to end this crap is absolutely fine with me to do otherwise means these Islamic tools are a threat to me and mine.

I see, the old "I love my family more" card.

I just don't want to see my country resort to Bin Laden/Stalin style tactics. That's all, and I don't think that's such a high standard.

And like I said that's your problem I could care less how you treat your family. This is also my Nation sport.

You really revealed yourself when you showed that you have zero limitations in how far we should

mutilate other human's bodies just to give you some false sense of security

. And where or when did we "mutilate" bodies I can't help but to notice that you can never speak to the truth of the statements but instead feel you must inject something that is not there why is that?

There's now nothing you can mock terrorists for besides being muslim

(their worst characteristic to you). You can't mock them beheading americans, you can't mock them torturing people, kidnapping people, killing them, none of those principles are beneath you.

Mocking a Terrorists is mostly pointless don't you think what more needs to be said other then they are Islamic they murder and kill and attack anyone who does not believe as they believe something like an untrained Dog. Do I really need to say more on that?

 

[bodecea]

If water boarding (water torture) was determined to be torture by the USA previously, WHY OH WHY would it not be considered torture now?

Water boarding was designated as illegal by U.S. generals in Vietnam 40 years ago. A photograph that appeared in The Washington Post of a U.S. soldier involved in water boarding a North Vietnamese prisoner in 1968 led to that soldier's severe punishment.

"The soldier who participated in water torture in January 1968 was court-martialed within one month after the photos appeared in The Washington Post, and he was drummed out of the Army," recounted Darius Rejali, a political science professor at Reed College.

Earlier in 1901, the United States had taken a similar stand against water boarding during the Spanish-American War when an Army major was sentenced to 10 years of hard labor for water boarding an insurgent in the Philippines.

"Even when you're fighting against belligerents who don't respect the laws of war, we are obliged to hold the laws of war," said Rejali. "And water torture is torture." History of an Interrogation Technique: Water Boarding - ABC News

I just do not see what makes it ok now if it was not ok with the USA before?

The world has changed.

There have been bad people doing bad things to people and countries since the beginning of history....but run with your excuses.

 

[bodecea]

No he wasn't

October 16, 2001-- An interview with Osama bin Laden was published in a Karachi-based Pakistani daily newspaper, Ummat, on September 28, 2001. In this interview, bin Laden says of the September 11 attacks in the US:
"I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people. Such a practice is forbidden even in the course of a battle.

Bin Laden: AUTHENTIC INTERVIEW

Rex Tomb, Chief of Investigative Publicity for the FBI. When asked why there is no mention of 9/11 on Bin Laden’s Most Wanted web page, Tomb said, “The reason why 9/11 is not mentioned on Usama Bin Laden’s Most Wanted page is because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11.”

Surprised by the ease in which this FBI spokesman made such an astonishing statement, I asked, “How this was possible?” Tomb continued, “Bin Laden has not been formally charged in connection to 9/11.” I asked, “How does that work?” Tomb continued, “The FBI gathers evidence. Once evidence is gathered, it is turned over to the Department of Justice. The Department of Justice than decides whether it has enough evidence to present to a federal grand jury. In the case of the 1998 United States Embassies being bombed, Bin Laden has been formally indicted and charged by a grand jury. He has not been formally indicted and charged in connection with 9/11 because the FBI has no hard evidence connected Bin Laden to 9/11.”

FBI says, it has “No hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11”

Can you please post a picture of your, "OBL did not deserve to be Murdered" bumper sticker. It will make you the darling of your neighborhood.

Can you display your "I'm a hypocrite and what ever my party does is ok with me but if the other party does it I will say it's wrong" bumper sticker.

You bought a gross of those, didn't you?

 

[Wicked Jester]

Can you please post a picture of your, "OBL did not deserve to be Murdered" bumper sticker. It will make you the darling of your neighborhood.

Can you display your "I'm a hypocrite and what ever my party does is ok with me but if the other party does it I will say it's wrong" bumper sticker.

You bought a gross of those, didn't you?

Why?.......You need one?

 

[bodecea]

Can you display your "I'm a hypocrite and what ever my party does is ok with me but if the other party does it I will say it's wrong" bumper sticker.

You bought a gross of those, didn't you?

Why?.......You need one?

No, you can have them....I'm fine without one. But I suspect it would fit beautifully and appropriately on your vehicle.

 

[Dr.Drock]

There is nothing funny about the Threat to our People that is poised by these animals I absolutely have zero interests in saving these people dignity in terms of us finding information to put a stop to these animals. Think about like this and the rest of your simpering Morally Superior tools might want to pay attention.

I view these actions which have been undertaken in the same light as me protecting my family when I say I have utterly no constraints when it comes to protecting them it is the same that I feel needs to be done for our Nation. There is no level to which I will stop to protect them.

Now you might not feel that way about your family or for that matter our Nation that's fine its your problem not mine but when it comes to this Nation and our Protection against these animals what ever is done to them to end this crap is absolutely fine with me to do otherwise means these Islamic tools are a threat to me and mine.

I see, the old "I love my family more" card.



And like I said that's your problem I could care less how you treat your family. This is also my Nation sport.

You really revealed yourself when you showed that you have zero limitations in how far we should . And where or when did we "mutilate" bodies I can't help but to notice that you can never speak to the truth of the statements but instead feel you must inject something that is not there why is that?

There's now nothing you can mock terrorists for besides being muslim

(their worst characteristic to you). You can't mock them beheading americans, you can't mock them torturing people, kidnapping people, killing them, none of those principles are beneath you.

Mocking a Terrorists is mostly pointless don't you think what more needs to be said other then they are Islamic they murder and kill and attack anyone who does not believe as they believe something like an untrained Dog. Do I really need to say more on that?

A lot of people are shocked about how someone like Hitler could rise to power and do the awful things to humanity that he did in a time that seems so recent.

I'm not, there's a lot of types like Robert who if they had enough power would make Hitler look like a fluffy kitten.

I wouldn't put it passed him (if he had the power) to set up Holocaust camps all over the world in an attempt to kill all 1.7 billion muslims.