Zone1 A child afflicted with anencephalia, with no ability to think, breathe on their own, feel pain, to ever become self-aware, etc. is a "person."

[Chuz Life]

A child afflicted with anencephalia, with no ability to think, no ability to breathe on their own, no ability to feel pain, no ability to ever become self-aware, etc. is a never-the-less a "person."

 

[toobfreak]

A child afflicted with anencephalia, with no ability to think, no ability to breathe on their own, no ability to feel pain, no ability to ever become self-aware, etc. is a never-the-less a "person."

I disagree with some of the article. I know a great deal about the brain and disagree with some of their claims. Bottom line is that no doctor has ever been there and can only speculate about degrees of awareness, pain, and such, so the child must be given the benefit of the doubt. Worse, given the opportunity, brains often show a remarkable ability to rewire themselves as much as possible given the opportunity trying to regain lost functions.

Even a person in a coma is a person, so obviously, so is this child. I tend to view the condition more as a type of severe retardation. If the child continues to live and the parents can afford to deal with it, this kid is entitled to live whatever life it has ahead of it.

 

[Seymour Flops]

A child afflicted with anencephalia, with no ability to think, no ability to breathe on their own, no ability to feel pain, no ability to ever become self-aware, etc. is a never-the-less a "person."

View attachment 1146756

If the answer is "no," then the mother is entitled to do anything she wants with it, correct?. She could sell the non-person to the highest bidder, even if the highest bidder were a maker of pornographic videos. She could put it in a little cage and charge tickets to come look at it. She could use it for a sandbag-type weight, or hang it up as a scarecrow for her garden. She could cut pieces off of the non-person and cook and eat it for as long as it was "fresh."

Is that anyone's argument?

Or would they "only" argue for the right to kill it?

 

[Chuz Life]

I disagree with some of the article. I know a great deal about the brain and disagree with some of their claims. Bottom line is that no doctor has ever been there and can only speculate about degrees of awareness, pain, and such, so the child must be given the benefit of the doubt.

Doctors know what functions and abilities different regions of the brain are associated with. When those parts of the brain are missing entirely, the impairment is not only obvious in the present it is also indicative of the prognosis of the child, too.

The fact that the anencephalic child will never regenerate the missing portions of their brain and how that compares to a child only a few weeks younger, who has no more "autonomous" brain function presently, but, if left alone and not interfered with, typically WILL. I thought, might be obvious.

Worse, given the opportunity, brains often show a remarkable ability to rewire themselves as much as possible given the opportunity trying to regain lost functions.

Even a person in a coma is a person, so obviously, so is this child. I tend to view the condition more as a type of severe retardation. If the child continues to live and the parents can afford to deal with it, this kid is entitled to live whatever life it has ahead of it.

Are they just as "entitled to the equal protection of our laws" as any other child is, though?

I say they are and must be. And I apply that to my reasoning for why children in the womb are entitled to the same.

Obviously, some here completely disagree.

 

[toobfreak]

Doctors know what functions and abilities different regions of the brain are associated with.

Yeah, so did I at about the age of 5-6 years old. My point being that I once heard of a case where some guy had an accident and was hit in the head with a big iron spike or something like a railroad spike. It penetrated deep into his brain. I saw the x-rays. It went in halfway to the center of his head. It was kind of high up and on the side where it entered him.

Not only did the guy live, but he suffered no ill effects, no loss of function and went on to live a normal life. I think they even left the thing in his head afraid to take it out. Doctors were fairly mystified.

My point being that while I have no doubt this kid will never recover to lead anything close to a normal life and will likely die very young, there is a chance he might live. And there is a chance that over many years, decades, he might actually gain a little function.

Quality of life is always a consideration, but who makes that decision for another person?

When in doubt, I always give the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Chuz Life]

Yeah, so did I at about the age of 5-6 years old. My point being that I once heard of a case where some guy had an accident and was hit in the head with a big iron spike or something like a railroad spike. It penetrated deep into his brain. I saw the x-rays. It went in halfway to the center of his head. It was kind of high up and on the side where it entered him.

Not only did the guy live, but he suffered no ill effects, no loss of function and went on to live a normal life. I think they even left the thing in his head afraid to take it out. Doctors were fairly mystified.

My point being that while I have no doubt this kid will never recover to lead anything close to a normal life and will likely die very young, there is a chance he might live. And there is a chance that over many years, decades, he might actually gain a little function.

Quality of life is always a consideration, but who makes that decision for another person?

When in doubt, I always give the benefit of the doubt.

Toob, I live with someone who has an anoxic brain injury, and we deal with it every day.

From your comments above, it seems as though you don't know what the life expectancy is, for a child afflicted with anencephalia.

 

[Dr.Destructo]

It's a living human being. Regardless of any absense of feelings, emotions, and/or senses.

It wasn't their choice to be born, or be born like that.

If the parents want to take care of the kid until it dies, then let them do so. DO NOT be asking for help, because it's not anybody else's fault that they couldn't be bothered to get a simple DNA test before screwing each other, to see what kind of kid they would potentially have.

 

[elektra]

Yeah, so did I at about the age of 5-6 years old. My point being that I once heard of a case where some guy had an accident and was hit in the head with a big iron spike or something like a railroad spike. It penetrated deep into his brain. I saw the x-rays. It went in halfway to the center of his head. It was kind of high up and on the side where it entered him.

Not only did the guy live, but he suffered no ill effects, no loss of function and went on to live a normal life. I think they even left the thing in his head afraid to take it out. Doctors were fairly mystified.

My point being that while I have no doubt this kid will never recover to lead anything close to a normal life and will likely die very young, there is a chance he might live. And there is a chance that over many years, decades, he might actually gain a little function.

Quality of life is always a consideration, but who makes that decision for another person?

When in doubt, I always give the benefit of the doubt.

I saw that back when there were newspapers, crazy

 

[luiza]

A very close friend has a twelve year old boy who is anencephalic though he can breathe on his own and register basic emotions --- happiness and pain .
Fortunately from an outside perspective , hardly any reach adulthood -- both for their sakes and those directly involved with them . inho .;

If you believe that the Soul is eternal and any such individual will have many incarnations ( perhaps hundreds) this one appalling life is hopefully almost academic within the bigger picture .
Perhaps even an error by Universe -- though logically that is impossible

I personally would let them slip away at birth in the most reverential way and manner possible .
However , I appreciate that this might represent arrogance and me trying to out-think Universe .
In which case I could be creating negative Kama for myself which will need later resolution .

A complex subject .

 

[TemplarKormac]

A child afflicted with anencephalia, with no ability to think, no ability to breathe on their own, no ability to feel pain, no ability to ever become self-aware, etc. is a never-the-less a "person."

View attachment 1146756

Very much true.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

The affected child is human.

It should have been aborted.

 

[Hafar1014]

I disagree with some of the article. I know a great deal about the brain and disagree with some of their claims. Bottom line is that no doctor has ever been there and can only speculate about degrees of awareness, pain, and such, so the child must be given the benefit of the doubt. Worse, given the opportunity, brains often show a remarkable ability to rewire themselves as much as possible given the opportunity trying to regain lost functions.

Even a person in a coma is a person, so obviously, so is this child. I tend to view the condition more as a type of severe retardation. If the child continues to live and the parents can afford to deal with it, this kid is entitled to live whatever life it has ahead of it.

When an infant has anencephaly the brain doesnt exist only a brain stem. There is no mind. It can never be a person

 

[Hafar1014]

A very close friend has a twelve year old boy who is anencephalic though he can breathe on his own and register basic emotions --- happiness and pain .
Fortunately from an outside perspective , hardly any reach adulthood -- both for their sakes and those directly involved with them . inho .;

If you believe that the Soul is eternal and any such individual will have many incarnations ( perhaps hundreds) this one appalling life is hopefully almost academic within the bigger picture .
Perhaps even an error by Universe -- though logically that is impossible

I personally would let them slip away at birth in the most reverential way and manner possible .
However , I appreciate that this might represent arrogance and me trying to out-think Universe .
In which case I could be creating negative Kama for myself which will need later resolution .

A complex subject .

A slow death costing millions isnt a good idea

 

[luiza]

A slow death costing millions isnt a good idea

Who said it was ?
Who even suggested it ?

 

[EvilCat Breath]

This is all to find yet another way to harvest organs. Why not harvest from those in a coma? It's coming. To increase the supply of usable organs death or "not life" will be redefined until getting knocked out will split your guts open before your eyelids flutter.

We will end up like China yet.

 

[alang1216]

A child afflicted with anencephalia, with no ability to think, no ability to breathe on their own, no ability to feel pain, no ability to ever become self-aware, etc. is a never-the-less a "person."

View attachment 1146756

If the parents want an abortion I'm OK with that. If the child is already born I'd say let nature take its course.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

I don't think euthanasia ethically is warranted if the fetus was born.

That would depend upon state law.

 

[Chuz Life]

I personally would let them slip away at birth in the most reverential way and manner possible .
However , I appreciate that this might represent arrogance and me trying to out-think Universe .
In which case I could be creating negative Kama for myself which will need later resolution .

A complex subject.

Okay, first of all, wow!

The question in the OP and Poll is very simple, and it is intended to hopefully make the point that neither legal personhood, nor "natural personhood" requires "sapience, sentience, or an ability to breathe on one's own, an ability to feel pain, etc.

Connecting the dots, further, If a child with anencephalia is a natural person, despite the fact that many of them NEVER will develop most of those traits and characteristics, there is no just reason to disqualify any other human being from being recognized as a person, when they may only temporarily lack any or all of those characteristics.

Can someone else let me know if they agree with that point? Just so I don't go completely insane, TRYING to make that point?

 

[Chuz Life]

The affected child is human.

It should have been aborted.

The question is "are they a person?"

 

[Chuz Life]

When an infant has anencephaly the brain doesnt exist only a brain stem. There is no mind. It can never be a person

So the laws that legally recognize and treat them as persons are wrong and must be overturned, in your opinion?