9/11: The Pentaplane Flyover Theory

[Faun]

How do you account for the bodies and personal effects of Flight 77 found in the Pentagon wreckage?

Yeah, they recovered no luggage or the 2 ton titanium jet engines but they found enough remains of people in order to "ID" them. What I would like to know is why does the officially released flight data recorder show that the aircraft was hundreds of feet above those struck lamp poles as it flew past?


The data provided by the NTSB contradict the 9/11 Commission Report in several significant ways:

- The NTSB Flight Path Animation approach path and altitude does not support official events.

• CSV file and animation as plotted and provided by the NTSB through the Freedom Of Information Act (1) at time stamp 09:37:44, reports pressure altitude as 173 (csv file) and 180 feet (animation). When adjusted for local pressure to true altitude, the aircraft is ~473 and ~ 480 feet above sea level, respectively. Too high to hit the light poles as reported being struck on Washington Blvd and the Pentagon if trends are continued. NTSB calculates and reports impact time of 09:37:45 in their NTSB Flight Path Study (2).
• The Animation Reconstruction as plotted and provided by the NTSB shows a flight path north of the required physical damage path. (1)

- All Altitude data shows the aircraft at least 300 feet too high to have struck the light poles.

AA77 Technical Outline

The families of those victims took those remains and gave them a proper burial and honor and pray to those remains

Are you such a LOW LIFE SCUM that you mock those families, call them suckers and taunt them that those are not the remains of their loved ones based on NO EVIDENCE?

You make me sick

AGAIN, you ignore what I posted. Your beloved "gubermint" lies to you with great gusto and they do it constantly. Stupid little naive fucks like you swallow it like it was ambrosia delivered by the gods. Seriously, I can't believe how fucking stupid some people truly are.

So when the gubment notified families that remains of their loved ones have been identified and the family honors those remains and buries them and visits them........You believe they are "naive fucks". You mock their grief, piss on the graves of their loved ones......All based on NO EVIDENCE


You are truly a despicable individual

Got proof that anyone died besides the words of your beloved "gubermint"? That's what I thought so STFU. You can't play the "shame game" on me, ya fucking retard. Your fucking "gubermint" is nothing but one huge crime syndicate and that is what truly is despicable.

Of course there is proof, ya flamin' psychopath. The passengers are gone. They haven't been seen since 9.11. Barbara Olsen, for example, was a public figure. Where is she?

 

[SAYIT]

Got proof that anyone died besides the words of your beloved "gubermint"? That's what I thought so STFU. You can't play the "shame game" on me, ya fucking retard. Your fucking "gubermint" is nothing but one huge crime syndicate and that is what truly is despicable.

Of course there is proof, ya flamin' psychopath. The passengers are gone. They haven't been seen since 9.11. Barbara Olsen, for example, was a public figure. Where is she?

You seem to forget there were NO PLANES thus NO PASSENGERS!

Also no Towers, no Pentagon, no casualties, no police or fire responders, no witnesses, and no media reports. Nothing happened on 9/11/2001 and Smith knows that for a fact because he has spent every waking moment of his adult life "researching" the massive fraud foisted on the world by the very secretive illuminati, reptilian shape-shifting aliens, invisible super-ninjas, the CIA, the Bush clan and of course, the Joooos.

It's a conspiracy I tell you!

 

[Faun]

Got proof that anyone died besides the words of your beloved "gubermint"? That's what I thought so STFU. You can't play the "shame game" on me, ya fucking retard. Your fucking "gubermint" is nothing but one huge crime syndicate and that is what truly is despicable.

Of course there is proof, ya flamin' psychopath. The passengers are gone. They haven't been seen since 9.11. Barbara Olsen, for example, was a public figure. Where is she?

You seem to forget there were NO PLANES thus NO PASSENGERS!

Also no Towers, no Pentagon, no casualties, no police or fire responders, no witnesses, and no media reports. Nothing happened on 9/11/2001 and Smith knows that for a fact because he has spent every waking moment of his adult life "researching" the massive fraud foisted on the world by the very secretive illuminati, reptilian shape-shifting aliens, invisible super-ninjas, the CIA, the Bush clan and of course, the Joooos.

It's a conspiracy I tell you!

LOL

It's hysterical how that nut says there were no planes in NYC ... holographic images were used to simulate two planes streaking across the sky, using a technology that didn't exist ...

... but then at the Pentagon, they used a real plane. And no plane or hologram for building #7.

 

[SAYIT]

Got proof that anyone died besides the words of your beloved "gubermint"? That's what I thought so STFU. You can't play the "shame game" on me, ya fucking retard. Your fucking "gubermint" is nothing but one huge crime syndicate and that is what truly is despicable.

Of course there is proof, ya flamin' psychopath. The passengers are gone. They haven't been seen since 9.11. Barbara Olsen, for example, was a public figure. Where is she?

You seem to forget there were NO PLANES thus NO PASSENGERS!

Also no Towers, no Pentagon, no casualties, no police or fire responders, no witnesses, and no media reports. Nothing happened on 9/11/2001 and Smith knows that for a fact because he has spent every waking moment of his adult life "researching" the massive fraud foisted on the world by the very secretive illuminati, reptilian shape-shifting aliens, invisible super-ninjas, the CIA, the Bush clan and of course, the Joooos.

It's a conspiracy I tell you!

LOL

It's hysterical how that nut says there were no planes in NYC ... holographic images were used to simulate two planes streaking across the sky, using a technology that didn't exist ...

... but then at the Pentagon, they used a real plane. And no plane or hologram for building #7.

IDK. I mean, how does Smith's lunacy differ from that of Phoenyx whose OP premise was the "Pentaplane" which, according to his lunacy, pulled up at the last moment (while some other projectile ripped threw the Pentagon), only to be diverted to some landing after which all evidence of the crew, the passengers and the plane disappeared?

I mean, can these guys hear themselves?

If the 9/11 CT Movement didn't die a natural death years ago, these guys would be banging the nails into the coffin. As it is they are a comical yet tragic reminder of all that came before them and failed so miserably.

 

[Dale Smith]

Yeah, they recovered no luggage or the 2 ton titanium jet engines but they found enough remains of people in order to "ID" them. What I would like to know is why does the officially released flight data recorder show that the aircraft was hundreds of feet above those struck lamp poles as it flew past?


The data provided by the NTSB contradict the 9/11 Commission Report in several significant ways:

- The NTSB Flight Path Animation approach path and altitude does not support official events.

• CSV file and animation as plotted and provided by the NTSB through the Freedom Of Information Act (1) at time stamp 09:37:44, reports pressure altitude as 173 (csv file) and 180 feet (animation). When adjusted for local pressure to true altitude, the aircraft is ~473 and ~ 480 feet above sea level, respectively. Too high to hit the light poles as reported being struck on Washington Blvd and the Pentagon if trends are continued. NTSB calculates and reports impact time of 09:37:45 in their NTSB Flight Path Study (2).
• The Animation Reconstruction as plotted and provided by the NTSB shows a flight path north of the required physical damage path. (1)

- All Altitude data shows the aircraft at least 300 feet too high to have struck the light poles.

AA77 Technical Outline

The families of those victims took those remains and gave them a proper burial and honor and pray to those remains

Are you such a LOW LIFE SCUM that you mock those families, call them suckers and taunt them that those are not the remains of their loved ones based on NO EVIDENCE?

You make me sick

AGAIN, you ignore what I posted. Your beloved "gubermint" lies to you with great gusto and they do it constantly. Stupid little naive fucks like you swallow it like it was ambrosia delivered by the gods. Seriously, I can't believe how fucking stupid some people truly are.

So when the gubment notified families that remains of their loved ones have been identified and the family honors those remains and buries them and visits them........You believe they are "naive fucks". You mock their grief, piss on the graves of their loved ones......All based on NO EVIDENCE


You are truly a despicable individual

Got proof that anyone died besides the words of your beloved "gubermint"? That's what I thought so STFU. You can't play the "shame game" on me, ya fucking retard. Your fucking "gubermint" is nothing but one huge crime syndicate and that is what truly is despicable.

Of course there is proof, ya flamin' psychopath. The passengers are gone. They haven't been seen since 9.11. Barbara Olsen, for example, was a public figure. Where is she?

Ahhh yes, Barbara Olsen, wife of neocon Ted Olsen.....both her and Ted Olson were big neocon players. Ted was a solicitor general appointed by G W. Bush after Olson had successfully argued Bush's 2000 election case before the SCOTUS and Barbara was a neocon writer, commentator as well as a lawyer for neocon causes. Where is she? Probably sipping wine on some Caribbean beach or she may have resurfaced somewhere else as an attorney...the possibilities are endless but I can bet ya one thing, she has a swollen bank account. I find it odd that AA Flight 11 was only half full, United Flight 175 only had 56 out of 168 seats occupied. AA Flight 77 only had 58 passengers out of 178 and United Flight 93 only had 37 passengers on a flight that holds 182. You know what else is amazing? Was that the stocks of American and United airlines had "put options" placed on their stocks that was 285 TIMES the norm just shortly before 9/11...but I am sure it's just a coinkydink because there were so many of them on that day....like how they just happened to be having war games with NORAD involved on that day. The one that is my favorite is the passport of one of the terrorists that survived the initial crash that gently floated down to the ground that SOMEONE just happened to find in the chaos and then found someone of authority to pass it off to because he just had this sixth sense that it must have been one of the terrorists....(snicker)

As far as to what hit the Towers and what made it collapse into it's own footprint? I am very open-minded. The military industrial complex is at least twenty to 150 years ahead in technology of what we are allowed to know about and benefit from. Could it have been a hologram for one or both of the planes that hit the towers? I don't rule out the possibility because unlike you, I am open-minded instead of being a mindless drone like you that clings to this stupid belief that his beloved "gubermint" is above reproach...because it isn't and not by any stretch of the imagination. It is nothing but one huge crime syndicate..a corporate entity that is ran by foreign bankers. Does this help???? (snicker)

 

[hadit]

The families of those victims took those remains and gave them a proper burial and honor and pray to those remains

Are you such a LOW LIFE SCUM that you mock those families, call them suckers and taunt them that those are not the remains of their loved ones based on NO EVIDENCE?

You make me sick

AGAIN, you ignore what I posted. Your beloved "gubermint" lies to you with great gusto and they do it constantly. Stupid little naive fucks like you swallow it like it was ambrosia delivered by the gods. Seriously, I can't believe how fucking stupid some people truly are.

So when the gubment notified families that remains of their loved ones have been identified and the family honors those remains and buries them and visits them........You believe they are "naive fucks". You mock their grief, piss on the graves of their loved ones......All based on NO EVIDENCE


You are truly a despicable individual

Got proof that anyone died besides the words of your beloved "gubermint"? That's what I thought so STFU. You can't play the "shame game" on me, ya fucking retard. Your fucking "gubermint" is nothing but one huge crime syndicate and that is what truly is despicable.

Of course there is proof, ya flamin' psychopath. The passengers are gone. They haven't been seen since 9.11. Barbara Olsen, for example, was a public figure. Where is she?

Ahhh yes, Barbara Olsen, wife of neocon Ted Olsen.....both her and Ted Olson were big neocon players. Ted was a solicitor general appointed by G W. Bush after Olson had successfully argued Bush's 2000 election case before the SCOTUS and Barbara was a neocon writer, commentator as well as a lawyer for neocon causes. Where is she? Probably sipping wine on some Caribbean beach or she may have resurfaced somewhere else as an attorney...the possibilities are endless but I can bet ya one thing, she has a swollen bank account. I find it odd that AA Flight 11 was only half full, United Flight 175 only had 56 out of 168 seats occupied. AA Flight 77 only had 58 passengers out of 178 and United Flight 93 only had 37 passengers on a flight that holds 182. You know what else is amazing? Was that the stocks of American and United airlines had "put options" placed on their stocks that was 285 TIMES the norm just shortly before 9/11...but I am sure it's just a coinkydink because there were so many of them on that day....like how they just happened to be having war games with NORAD involved on that day. The one that is my favorite is the passport of one of the terrorists that survived the initial crash that gently floated down to the ground that SOMEONE just happened to find in the chaos and then found someone of authority to pass it off to because he just had this sixth sense that it must have been one of the terrorists....(snicker)

As far as to what hit the Towers and what made it collapse into it's own footprint? I am very open-minded. The military industrial complex is at least twenty to 150 years ahead in technology of what we are allowed to know about and benefit from. Could it have been a hologram for one or both of the planes that hit the towers? I don't rule out the possibility because unlike you, I am open-minded instead of being a mindless drone like you that clings to this stupid belief that his beloved "gubermint" is above reproach...because it isn't and not by any stretch of the imagination. It is nothing but one huge crime syndicate..a corporate entity that is ran by foreign bankers. Does this help???? (snicker)

And, as has been presented multiple times before, why? Why use super duper advanced technology to pretend planes struck the buildings? Why involve thousands of people in a massive cover up? Why sneak tons of explosives into possibly the busiest buildings in the country? Why make 4 aircraft totally disappear with all people on board? Why snatch the flights, take DNA from those aboard along with parts from the planes and frantically rush it all to the scene in time to be found, and fake the planes crashing into the buildings?

Why do all that and risk discovery when it's sooooo much simpler to just hijack the planes and fly them into the buildings?

I maintain these theories persist because people don't want to accept that the vaunted US defenses could have been compromised so thoroughly by a handful of suicide minded murderous fanatics armed with small knives and a knowledge of the American mindset. That happens elsewhere, not here.

 

[Faun]

The families of those victims took those remains and gave them a proper burial and honor and pray to those remains

Are you such a LOW LIFE SCUM that you mock those families, call them suckers and taunt them that those are not the remains of their loved ones based on NO EVIDENCE?

You make me sick

AGAIN, you ignore what I posted. Your beloved "gubermint" lies to you with great gusto and they do it constantly. Stupid little naive fucks like you swallow it like it was ambrosia delivered by the gods. Seriously, I can't believe how fucking stupid some people truly are.

So when the gubment notified families that remains of their loved ones have been identified and the family honors those remains and buries them and visits them........You believe they are "naive fucks". You mock their grief, piss on the graves of their loved ones......All based on NO EVIDENCE


You are truly a despicable individual

Got proof that anyone died besides the words of your beloved "gubermint"? That's what I thought so STFU. You can't play the "shame game" on me, ya fucking retard. Your fucking "gubermint" is nothing but one huge crime syndicate and that is what truly is despicable.

Of course there is proof, ya flamin' psychopath. The passengers are gone. They haven't been seen since 9.11. Barbara Olsen, for example, was a public figure. Where is she?

Ahhh yes, Barbara Olsen, wife of neocon Ted Olsen.....both her and Ted Olson were big neocon players. Ted was a solicitor general appointed by G W. Bush after Olson had successfully argued Bush's 2000 election case before the SCOTUS and Barbara was a neocon writer, commentator as well as a lawyer for neocon causes. Where is she? Probably sipping wine on some Caribbean beach or she may have resurfaced somewhere else as an attorney...the possibilities are endless but I can bet ya one thing, she has a swollen bank account. I find it odd that AA Flight 11 was only half full, United Flight 175 only had 56 out of 168 seats occupied. AA Flight 77 only had 58 passengers out of 178 and United Flight 93 only had 37 passengers on a flight that holds 182. You know what else is amazing? Was that the stocks of American and United airlines had "put options" placed on their stocks that was 285 TIMES the norm just shortly before 9/11...but I am sure it's just a coinkydink because there were so many of them on that day....like how they just happened to be having war games with NORAD involved on that day. The one that is my favorite is the passport of one of the terrorists that survived the initial crash that gently floated down to the ground that SOMEONE just happened to find in the chaos and then found someone of authority to pass it off to because he just had this sixth sense that it must have been one of the terrorists....(snicker)

As far as to what hit the Towers and what made it collapse into it's own footprint? I am very open-minded. The military industrial complex is at least twenty to 150 years ahead in technology of what we are allowed to know about and benefit from. Could it have been a hologram for one or both of the planes that hit the towers? I don't rule out the possibility because unlike you, I am open-minded instead of being a mindless drone like you that clings to this stupid belief that his beloved "gubermint" is above reproach...because it isn't and not by any stretch of the imagination. It is nothing but one huge crime syndicate..a corporate entity that is ran by foreign bankers. Does this help???? (snicker)

Does it help that you suggest Barbara Olsen (just one of hundreds of missing passengers and crew) has been sipping wine on a beach for the past 15 years?

In terms of the debate, it does not help since you're just making shit up. In terms of reminding the readers here that you're batshit insane? It helps a great deal.

Hundreds of people gone. Are they all sipping wine on beaches?

And you're so open-minded that your brain has leaked out onto the floor.

 

[Dale Smith]

AGAIN, you ignore what I posted. Your beloved "gubermint" lies to you with great gusto and they do it constantly. Stupid little naive fucks like you swallow it like it was ambrosia delivered by the gods. Seriously, I can't believe how fucking stupid some people truly are.

So when the gubment notified families that remains of their loved ones have been identified and the family honors those remains and buries them and visits them........You believe they are "naive fucks". You mock their grief, piss on the graves of their loved ones......All based on NO EVIDENCE


You are truly a despicable individual

Got proof that anyone died besides the words of your beloved "gubermint"? That's what I thought so STFU. You can't play the "shame game" on me, ya fucking retard. Your fucking "gubermint" is nothing but one huge crime syndicate and that is what truly is despicable.

Of course there is proof, ya flamin' psychopath. The passengers are gone. They haven't been seen since 9.11. Barbara Olsen, for example, was a public figure. Where is she?

Ahhh yes, Barbara Olsen, wife of neocon Ted Olsen.....both her and Ted Olson were big neocon players. Ted was a solicitor general appointed by G W. Bush after Olson had successfully argued Bush's 2000 election case before the SCOTUS and Barbara was a neocon writer, commentator as well as a lawyer for neocon causes. Where is she? Probably sipping wine on some Caribbean beach or she may have resurfaced somewhere else as an attorney...the possibilities are endless but I can bet ya one thing, she has a swollen bank account. I find it odd that AA Flight 11 was only half full, United Flight 175 only had 56 out of 168 seats occupied. AA Flight 77 only had 58 passengers out of 178 and United Flight 93 only had 37 passengers on a flight that holds 182. You know what else is amazing? Was that the stocks of American and United airlines had "put options" placed on their stocks that was 285 TIMES the norm just shortly before 9/11...but I am sure it's just a coinkydink because there were so many of them on that day....like how they just happened to be having war games with NORAD involved on that day. The one that is my favorite is the passport of one of the terrorists that survived the initial crash that gently floated down to the ground that SOMEONE just happened to find in the chaos and then found someone of authority to pass it off to because he just had this sixth sense that it must have been one of the terrorists....(snicker)

As far as to what hit the Towers and what made it collapse into it's own footprint? I am very open-minded. The military industrial complex is at least twenty to 150 years ahead in technology of what we are allowed to know about and benefit from. Could it have been a hologram for one or both of the planes that hit the towers? I don't rule out the possibility because unlike you, I am open-minded instead of being a mindless drone like you that clings to this stupid belief that his beloved "gubermint" is above reproach...because it isn't and not by any stretch of the imagination. It is nothing but one huge crime syndicate..a corporate entity that is ran by foreign bankers. Does this help???? (snicker)

Does it help that you suggest Barbara Olsen (just one of hundreds of missing passengers and crew) has been sipping wine on a beach for the past 15 years?

In terms of the debate, it does not help since you're just making shit up. In terms of reminding the readers here that you're batshit insane? It helps a great deal.

Hundreds of people gone. Are they all sipping wine on beaches?

And you're so open-minded that your brain has leaked out onto the floor.

Actually, only 232 passengers are allegedly missing...imagine that? 4 planes with a capacity for 168 to 181 passengers. Let's do the math, shall we? Let's split the difference between the two planes and say that each plane could could hold 175 passengers. So that's 700 possible seats...232 were on those 4 planes. That's an average of 33 and and half percent full per plane. Now, I have done LOTS of flying in my life at all times of the day and night and I did this from 2000, to 2008. I have flown at least 200,000 miles worth. I have never, EVER gotten on a flight that wasn't at least 2/3rds full. So what do you think the odds are of these alleged terrorists getting on FOUR planes at basically the same time of the day and finding so few passengers? I would say the odds are unfucking believably high. It's the equivalent of hitting the trifecta in horse racing by picking the horse with the lowest odds of winning.... so "yeah" I am calling bullshit on the whole phony story. BTW, have you ever heard of the declassified document concerning the false flag plan called "Operation Northwoods" that was to be used as an excuse to invade Cuba? You might want to look into that. Also, the "Gulf Of Tonkin" false flag that elevated hostilities in Vietnam and put America "all in"...we now know that this incident never happened. Ever heard of PNAC? "Progress for a New American Century" where this think tank basically stated that certain regimes that were not friendly to U.S interests must be taken out but sadly unless there was a Pearl Harbor like event, that it wasn't likely.....two years later, they got it...just another one of those amazing coincidences.....kinda like that passport of one the alleged terrorists that floated down and was found in spite of all the chaos....kinda reminiscent of the magic bullet that was found on a gurney when JFK was taken to Parkland hospital, no?

Then there were the Israelis/mossad agents that were busying filming the event and high fiving each other that were reported by someone and they were pulled over at the Lincoln Tunnel with thousands of dollars.... bomb sniffing dogs reacted like explosive materials had been in the van. The State department shut down the investigation and allowed the 5 mossad agents to return to Israel. What really struck me odd was that the driver of the van that was pulled out of the van said "We're not your enemy, we're your friend. Our enemies are your enemies" so my question is that this took place before "da gubermint" came out and blamed it on Tim Osman aka "Osama bin Laden". Once they were allowed to go home, they were on Israelis TV saying that they were there to document the event. Yeah, there are a LOT of unanswered questions and the hiding of imperative evidence that points right out the intelligence agencies and rogue elements within your beloved "gubermint" that remain unanswered.....but if it helps you sleep better at night to believe the official story, knock yourself out.

 

[Faun]

So when the gubment notified families that remains of their loved ones have been identified and the family honors those remains and buries them and visits them........You believe they are "naive fucks". You mock their grief, piss on the graves of their loved ones......All based on NO EVIDENCE


You are truly a despicable individual

Got proof that anyone died besides the words of your beloved "gubermint"? That's what I thought so STFU. You can't play the "shame game" on me, ya fucking retard. Your fucking "gubermint" is nothing but one huge crime syndicate and that is what truly is despicable.

Of course there is proof, ya flamin' psychopath. The passengers are gone. They haven't been seen since 9.11. Barbara Olsen, for example, was a public figure. Where is she?

Ahhh yes, Barbara Olsen, wife of neocon Ted Olsen.....both her and Ted Olson were big neocon players. Ted was a solicitor general appointed by G W. Bush after Olson had successfully argued Bush's 2000 election case before the SCOTUS and Barbara was a neocon writer, commentator as well as a lawyer for neocon causes. Where is she? Probably sipping wine on some Caribbean beach or she may have resurfaced somewhere else as an attorney...the possibilities are endless but I can bet ya one thing, she has a swollen bank account. I find it odd that AA Flight 11 was only half full, United Flight 175 only had 56 out of 168 seats occupied. AA Flight 77 only had 58 passengers out of 178 and United Flight 93 only had 37 passengers on a flight that holds 182. You know what else is amazing? Was that the stocks of American and United airlines had "put options" placed on their stocks that was 285 TIMES the norm just shortly before 9/11...but I am sure it's just a coinkydink because there were so many of them on that day....like how they just happened to be having war games with NORAD involved on that day. The one that is my favorite is the passport of one of the terrorists that survived the initial crash that gently floated down to the ground that SOMEONE just happened to find in the chaos and then found someone of authority to pass it off to because he just had this sixth sense that it must have been one of the terrorists....(snicker)

As far as to what hit the Towers and what made it collapse into it's own footprint? I am very open-minded. The military industrial complex is at least twenty to 150 years ahead in technology of what we are allowed to know about and benefit from. Could it have been a hologram for one or both of the planes that hit the towers? I don't rule out the possibility because unlike you, I am open-minded instead of being a mindless drone like you that clings to this stupid belief that his beloved "gubermint" is above reproach...because it isn't and not by any stretch of the imagination. It is nothing but one huge crime syndicate..a corporate entity that is ran by foreign bankers. Does this help???? (snicker)

Does it help that you suggest Barbara Olsen (just one of hundreds of missing passengers and crew) has been sipping wine on a beach for the past 15 years?

In terms of the debate, it does not help since you're just making shit up. In terms of reminding the readers here that you're batshit insane? It helps a great deal.

Hundreds of people gone. Are they all sipping wine on beaches?

And you're so open-minded that your brain has leaked out onto the floor.

Actually, only 232 passengers are allegedly missing...imagine that? 4 planes with a capacity for 168 to 181 passengers. Let's do the math, shall we? Let's split the difference between the two planes and say that each plane could could hold 175 passengers. So that's 700 possible seats...232 were on those 4 planes. That's an average of 33 and and half percent full per plane. Now, I have done LOTS of flying in my life at all times of the day and night and I did this from 2000, to 2008. I have flown at least 200,000 miles worth. I have never, EVER gotten on a flight that wasn't at least 2/3rds full. So what do you think the odds are of these alleged terrorists getting on FOUR planes at basically the same time of the day and finding so few passengers? I would say the odds are unfucking believably high. It's the equivalent of hitting the trifecta in horse racing by picking the horse with the lowest odds of winning.... so "yeah" I am calling bullshit on the whole phony story. BTW, have you ever heard of the declassified document concerning the false flag plan called "Operation Northwoods" that was to be used as an excuse to invade Cuba? You might want to look into that. Also, the "Gulf Of Tonkin" false flag that elevated hostilities in Vietnam and put America "all in"...we now know that this incident never happened. Ever heard of PNAC? "Progress for a New American Century" where this think tank basically stated that certain regimes that were not friendly to U.S interests must be taken out but sadly unless there was a Pearl Harbor like event, that it wasn't likely.....two years later, they got it...just another one of those amazing coincidences.....kinda like that passport of one the alleged terrorists that floated down and was found in spite of all the chaos....kinda reminiscent of the magic bullet that was found on a gurney when JFK was taken to Parkland hospital, no?

Then there were the Israelis/mossad agents that were busying filming the event and high fiving each other that were reported by someone and they were pulled over at the Lincoln Tunnel with thousands of dollars.... bomb sniffing dogs reacted like explosive materials had been in the van. The State department shut down the investigation and allowed the 5 mossad agents to return to Israel. What really struck me odd was that the driver of the van that was pulled out of the van said "We're not your enemy, we're your friend. Our enemies are your enemies" so my question is that this took place before "da gubermint" came out and blamed it on Tim Osman aka "Osama bin Laden". Once they were allowed to go home, they were on Israelis TV saying that they were there to document the event. Yeah, there are a LOT of unanswered questions and the hiding of imperative evidence that points right out the intelligence agencies and rogue elements within your beloved "gubermint" that remain unanswered.....but if it helps you sleep better at night to believe the official story, knock yourself out.

Calling bullshit because you feel the planes didn't have enough passengers only serves to reflect on your mental issues, especially since there were hundreds of passengers and crew who all disappeared on that day and your best guess is that they've been on a beach, sipping wine for the last 15 years.

 

[Dale Smith]

Got proof that anyone died besides the words of your beloved "gubermint"? That's what I thought so STFU. You can't play the "shame game" on me, ya fucking retard. Your fucking "gubermint" is nothing but one huge crime syndicate and that is what truly is despicable.

Of course there is proof, ya flamin' psychopath. The passengers are gone. They haven't been seen since 9.11. Barbara Olsen, for example, was a public figure. Where is she?

Ahhh yes, Barbara Olsen, wife of neocon Ted Olsen.....both her and Ted Olson were big neocon players. Ted was a solicitor general appointed by G W. Bush after Olson had successfully argued Bush's 2000 election case before the SCOTUS and Barbara was a neocon writer, commentator as well as a lawyer for neocon causes. Where is she? Probably sipping wine on some Caribbean beach or she may have resurfaced somewhere else as an attorney...the possibilities are endless but I can bet ya one thing, she has a swollen bank account. I find it odd that AA Flight 11 was only half full, United Flight 175 only had 56 out of 168 seats occupied. AA Flight 77 only had 58 passengers out of 178 and United Flight 93 only had 37 passengers on a flight that holds 182. You know what else is amazing? Was that the stocks of American and United airlines had "put options" placed on their stocks that was 285 TIMES the norm just shortly before 9/11...but I am sure it's just a coinkydink because there were so many of them on that day....like how they just happened to be having war games with NORAD involved on that day. The one that is my favorite is the passport of one of the terrorists that survived the initial crash that gently floated down to the ground that SOMEONE just happened to find in the chaos and then found someone of authority to pass it off to because he just had this sixth sense that it must have been one of the terrorists....(snicker)

As far as to what hit the Towers and what made it collapse into it's own footprint? I am very open-minded. The military industrial complex is at least twenty to 150 years ahead in technology of what we are allowed to know about and benefit from. Could it have been a hologram for one or both of the planes that hit the towers? I don't rule out the possibility because unlike you, I am open-minded instead of being a mindless drone like you that clings to this stupid belief that his beloved "gubermint" is above reproach...because it isn't and not by any stretch of the imagination. It is nothing but one huge crime syndicate..a corporate entity that is ran by foreign bankers. Does this help???? (snicker)

Does it help that you suggest Barbara Olsen (just one of hundreds of missing passengers and crew) has been sipping wine on a beach for the past 15 years?

In terms of the debate, it does not help since you're just making shit up. In terms of reminding the readers here that you're batshit insane? It helps a great deal.

Hundreds of people gone. Are they all sipping wine on beaches?

And you're so open-minded that your brain has leaked out onto the floor.

Actually, only 232 passengers are allegedly missing...imagine that? 4 planes with a capacity for 168 to 181 passengers. Let's do the math, shall we? Let's split the difference between the two planes and say that each plane could could hold 175 passengers. So that's 700 possible seats...232 were on those 4 planes. That's an average of 33 and and half percent full per plane. Now, I have done LOTS of flying in my life at all times of the day and night and I did this from 2000, to 2008. I have flown at least 200,000 miles worth. I have never, EVER gotten on a flight that wasn't at least 2/3rds full. So what do you think the odds are of these alleged terrorists getting on FOUR planes at basically the same time of the day and finding so few passengers? I would say the odds are unfucking believably high. It's the equivalent of hitting the trifecta in horse racing by picking the horse with the lowest odds of winning.... so "yeah" I am calling bullshit on the whole phony story. BTW, have you ever heard of the declassified document concerning the false flag plan called "Operation Northwoods" that was to be used as an excuse to invade Cuba? You might want to look into that. Also, the "Gulf Of Tonkin" false flag that elevated hostilities in Vietnam and put America "all in"...we now know that this incident never happened. Ever heard of PNAC? "Progress for a New American Century" where this think tank basically stated that certain regimes that were not friendly to U.S interests must be taken out but sadly unless there was a Pearl Harbor like event, that it wasn't likely.....two years later, they got it...just another one of those amazing coincidences.....kinda like that passport of one the alleged terrorists that floated down and was found in spite of all the chaos....kinda reminiscent of the magic bullet that was found on a gurney when JFK was taken to Parkland hospital, no?

Then there were the Israelis/mossad agents that were busying filming the event and high fiving each other that were reported by someone and they were pulled over at the Lincoln Tunnel with thousands of dollars.... bomb sniffing dogs reacted like explosive materials had been in the van. The State department shut down the investigation and allowed the 5 mossad agents to return to Israel. What really struck me odd was that the driver of the van that was pulled out of the van said "We're not your enemy, we're your friend. Our enemies are your enemies" so my question is that this took place before "da gubermint" came out and blamed it on Tim Osman aka "Osama bin Laden". Once they were allowed to go home, they were on Israelis TV saying that they were there to document the event. Yeah, there are a LOT of unanswered questions and the hiding of imperative evidence that points right out the intelligence agencies and rogue elements within your beloved "gubermint" that remain unanswered.....but if it helps you sleep better at night to believe the official story, knock yourself out.

Calling bullshit because you feel the planes didn't have enough passengers only serves to reflect on your mental issues, especially since there were hundreds of passengers and crew who all disappeared on that day and your best guess is that they've been on a beach, sipping wine for the last 15 years.

You obviously didn't read my post nor did you consider all the other information I gave you....why do you just "blow it off" sans any consideration? Three of those planes had so few passengers that one had their own row of seats to themselves AND those across the aisle. Did you do any research about Operation Northwoods? Did you even consider how ludicrous it was that a passport of one of the alleged terrorists floated gently to the ground and was found amidst the chaos and put into the hands of someone that could relay that information to the corporate news centers????? Does ANYTHING told to you by "da gubermint" ever set off your bullshit detector? The mossad agents that were arrested that day???? Where is the rebuttal???? You seem to avoid the points that I am making and go right to the lame insults. It seems to me that you have little faith in your convictions......just sayin'. You can never, ever make me back down or reconsider because I have spent too much time vetting information. I was once like you...I denied it and I busted on those that said the official story was bullshit so I can't be too hard on you....but one day you will be faced with the ugly truth and it's gonna knock you on your ass. I know, because I went through it myself.

 

[phoenyx]

It's true that recollections can fade or be distorted over the years. This is probably why CIT was careful to include the testimony of some of their witnesses that had been recorded only a few months after 9/11 by the Center of Military History and the Library of Congress. But there's another element that can cause distortions that I note you've been very cavalier about- namely, the distance people are to the scene of the crime.

CIT also claims that 100% of the witnesses who were at the Citco or on the north side of it gave the north side approach.

That's not true.

They also interviewed Keith Wheelhouse who was among those north of the Citco. Like so many other witnesses, he said the plane came up Columbia Pike, south of the Citco. So no, not all of the witnesses they interviewed said flight #77 approached from north of the Citco.

Keith Wheelhouse also said that a second plane shadowed the Pentaplane, even though no other witnesses so close to the Pentagon claim seeing 2 planes practically right next to each other.

Dismissed since not seeing something others saw is not evidence it didn't exist when others said they saw it and radar picked it up.

"Others"? Who, other then Wheelhouse, claim to have seen 2 planes practically humping each other? And can you provide evidence that radar picked up these humping planes?

But regardless, the salient point you're ignoring is that CIT lied. They said ALL of the witnesses from the Citgo and ANC said the plane flew NoC.

LIE -- At least one didn't.

Wheelhouse wasn't one of the original 13 witnesses they interviewed. As to your point, I think another online poster has already addressed it fairly well, after he'd seen a video of a debate between Adam Larson and Craig Ranke (which is, unfortunately, no longer available for viewing):
**Craig raised an excellent point on the issue of "proof" and the validity of eye-witness testimony. I work on the basis of "weight of evidence" whereby if 3 people say x but 10 people say y, then y is likely to be correct, but I'd look at why 3 people said x. From that I'd determine if x or y is correct (or most likely) based on z evidence.

In this instance, there are far too many witnesses saying the same thing. The few witnesses that tow the official story are dubious due to who they work for, were the only version published in newspapers, and if you read their numerous reports carefully, are full of basic factual differences in each version of their account. In the case of the CIT witnesses, they're basically the same with respect to the main details in each account.

It was interesting to hear that only one person reported seeing the light pole in the cab after the event, yet no-one reported seeing the light poles actually getting hit, and further, wouldn't even testify that they saw them actually being hit, even though they had an otherwise good view of this.**

What I pointed out is that no one (possibly even Dihle) knows who said that and what they experienced to lead them to say that.

Is that a bit of doubt I'm detecting? You start off confident "no one" but then add, in brackets, that Dihle may -possibly- know who said that and what they experienced to lead them to say that. But, ofcourse, the 9/11 Commission is over, and you yourself have stated that you don't think it's worth reopening the investigation. We may never know just what Dihle knows...

Yet you cite him as a verifiable witness while you dismissed "Barbara" because she didn't say her last name.

Erik Dihle is a known witness, yes, though he only heard an explosion, he didn't see the plane. The people he -mentions- aren't known witnesses, no. Neither is "Barbara", there are plenty of Barbaras.

I had heard it was his co-workers elsewhere, perhaps from CIT. That being said, upon reviewing an audio clip of him mentioning his famous comment, I have noted that you are right. That being said, the beginning of his "jet kept on going" sentence suggests that his coworkers were the ones involved: "In the first few seconds, very confusing, we couldn't even tell... some people were yelling that a bomb had hit the Pentagon and the jet kept on going". Note the "we". If not his coworkers, who do you think would fit into that description?

You're missing the point. It's irrelevant if it was a co-worker. I merely pointed out that you (and possibly Dihle) don't know if it's a co-worker or not because the person is never identified.

Not yet, no...

Not yet???

Not ever.

Dihle doesn't remember saying that so there's no chance of him recalling who said it. Yet you still cling to Dihle's hearsay as gospel.

Your overconfidence is your weakness. Don't make assertions you can't back up. Or are you saying you can prove that we will never know who Dihle was referring to? Dihle doesn't need to remember any of it, an investigation could simply ask him who he believes he was talking to that day about the events occuring, as well as who he might have been talking to, and go from there.

You claimed earlier that Dilhe could identify the person if needed;

I'm not sure if I claimed I was -sure- that Dihle could identify the person, or persons, who he was referring to. But I certainly think it's -possible-.

According to Dihle, it's not possible. He says he doesn't remember saying that.

If an investigation were to ask him who he believed he had talked to that day, and those people were interviewed, they might say something like, "Why yes, -I- was the one who thought the jet kept on going!". I'm already thinking I have atleast one idea as to one person he may have heard it from: Maria de la Cerda. True, there is no recording of her saying that "a bomb went off and a jet kept on going" but she -is- recorded as saying that the plane crashed "on the other side" and even now still maintains that she believes that the plane crashed "on top". Perhaps originally, she had simply thought the jet kept on going before the official story modified her views on the subject.

He says what others thought had happened- that a bomb went off and a jet kept on going.

First and foremost, what he heard others say is second hand hearsay.

We're not at the court phase of this investigation here. It's a lead. If there ever is another investigation, they could ask him if he recalled were the people he was referring to...

They could ask him but I see no reason he would deliver an answer any different than the last time he discussed that -- and revealed he doesn't remember saying it.

He doesn't need to remember saying it. He only needs to remember who he was talking to that day. Heck, even if he can't remember that, investigators could still do some digging to find out who he was likely to have been talking to that day.

Secondly, Dihle himself never echoes that sentiment to my knowledge.

Agreed on that count. But then, he doesn't even claim to have seen the plane approach the Pentagon at all. He does say something rather interesting -after- mentioning what these people thought they saw. To whit:
**
And um, and then as we’re all kind of talking the first few seconds, another plane is coming in, very steep, kind of dive bombing, right down just to this end of the, south end of the cemetery. I recognized it as being the 4 engine, overhead wing turbo prop plane, and we, and I even called in the radio, and I said, “This may, here comes another one!”, ‘cause we thought it was another terrorist jet or something, but what it turned out to be was, what I can tell, the final approach of this regular commuter plane that comes in, and he had to do a real steep bank and go off, veer to the north, to avoid hitting the jet, or avoid going through the fireball…”
**

I fully admit this doesn't seem to make any sense. I believe Erik Dihle was at the Arlington Cemetary. He seems to be suggesting that the explosion went off and -then- the pentaplane approached the Pentagon. I know he says "another plane", but CIT has made it abundantly clear that there was only one plane and Erik fully admits he never saw the 'first'. It's certainly strange.

I believe you're mistaken about that. If I'm not mistaken, Dihle was inside the Pentagon when the plane flew into it.

I think you're mistaken. Dihle was an employee for the Arlington National Cemetary:


Maria de la Cerda wasn't, but she was in Arlington National Cemetery at the time of the event:
North Side Flyover

And CIT is batshit insane to deny there was a C-130 in the vicinity.

CIT doesn't say that a CIT wasn't in the "vicinity". The issue is how close. The answer is, not very.

There is solid evidence it was following flight #77.

• It was on radar
• There is voice recording of communication with the ATC
• There are many witnesses who said they saw it in addition to the plane which flew into the Pentagon.

Indeed, but only Wheelhouse says it was anywhere near the pentaplane. The pilot of said C-130 couldn't even make out where or what the pentaplane allegedly crashed into.

Care to do some quoting, and perhaps a clip of this second part?

Of course. But before I do, let me demonstrate the dishonesty of those with whom you place your trust and respect....

Truth And Shadows quotes Erik Dihle's comment....

“Some people were yelling that a bomb hit the Pentagon and that a jet kept on going.” ~Erik Dihle, ANC worker

​

You'll note that the end Dihle's commentary immediately after quoting his say he heard someone say a bomb hit and a jet just kept on going. I don't know how you can trust and respect them when you see the part I highlight below in red which was Dihle's very next comment....

“Some people were yelling that 'a bomb hit the Pentagon and that a jet kept on going' ... somebody else was yelling, 'no, no, no, a jet ran into the building.'” ~

Erik Dihle, ANC worker

That's the second lie I've seen Truth & Shadows tell. That you trust and respect them makes me doubt your integrity.

I imagine that Craig Mckee (the main author of Truth and Shadows) understands that his audience doesn't want to spend all day trying to figure out what he's trying to convey. In the interests of brevity, I think he made a good point. But adding the next line, in my view, doesn't take away from the conclusion at all. Far from it- clearly, -someone- had to stick up for the official story, and there's no time like immediately after to get it positioned into people's heads. Ask yourself, why is it that people who claimed that a bomb hit and a jet kept on going, but only one person who claimed that what would soon become the official story was the truth?

That's just a [insult removed] answer...

Yes, it is an answer. I and others believe it's a plausible one.

Also, speaking to not recalling events exactly as from years earlier, he is adamant in this later recording that he saw the C-130 come from the NNW ... until Ranke points out that radar indicated it came from the SW.

I believe I remember hearing CIT state that some of the radar data may have been faked. One thing's for sure: the 9/11 Commission Report, damage near and at the Pentagon, and NTSB black box data all conflict with each other.

I don't understand why I keep having to remind you -- that's not evidence.

If it's true that they all conflict (something I know you have contested in atleast one case), it would actually be -proof- that atleast 2 of the 3 official stories concerning the Pentagon attack aren't real.

Seems you are correct that Dihle was at ANC.

Could you tell me how you verified this? I only have that he was an ANC worker- in theory he may have been somewhere other than the ANC.

Regardless, he didn't identify who said it was a bomb

You seem to have forgotten that he speaking plural, not singular. From one of my previous posts:
"Some people were yelling that 'a bomb hit the Pentagon and that a jet kept on going"

and now says he doesn't even recall that.

While it's unfortunate that he no longer recalls what he said, what he said is on record and I imagine if he were asked, he could name people he was hearing things from on that day. A well funded investigation could certainly look into this.

Which, according to you, nullifies the account of a bomb...

"I've already mentioned why they may have excluded the account of "Barbara"; she has only been mentioned as "the wife of a friend of mine" by the reporter mentioning her, and was given no last name. Put simply, her account is impossible to verify."​

Simply put.... whomever said it was a bomb is impossible to verify.

Lol, very good use of logical deduction . A well funded investigation could also ask the reporter whose friend's wife he was referring to. If he can provide the identity of the person he was referring to, that person could be questioned directly.

 

[phoenyx]

There has already been a fair amount of discussion regarding what happened at the Pentagon in this forum, much of which I have participated in, in other threads. That being said, I think the other threads on the subject start off in a tone that clearly implies those behind the threads haven't studied the issue in much depth. In my view, this can lead to individuals entering the discussion, not really having much knowledge of the depth of evidence against the official story's version of events, which is why I intend to transfer any discussions I have been having with others regarding the Pentagon event in other threads to this one. I have studied and discussed the Pentagon event on 9/11 for years, and I think that while a 5 minute video known as "Pentagon Strike" is an excellent place to begin, it is only the beginning. For those who are unfamiliar with this video, The Pentagon Strike focuses on evidence that whatever happened at the Pentagon, it couldn't have been hit by a 757 airplane. I find much of this evidence is as compelling today as it was when it was first released. That video can be seen here:



For those who want to go beyond this point, I offer 2 additional videos, from 2 different organizations, and as well as some commentary on the organizations and the videos themselves.


The first is from Citizen Investigation Team, or CIT for short. This team of investigators, which have primarily been composed of Aldo Marquis and Craig Ranke, worked for many years on uncovering what really happened in the Pentagon attack. They went down to Arlington, Virginia, to video record the witnesses they found were in the best position to know exactly what happened during the Pentagon event. What they found out surprised them. Essentially, they found out that all the witnesses they found to be credible had the plane flying a path that took it North of a Citgo gas station that was directly east of the Pentagon at the time, instead of south of the Citgo gas station, which is what the official narrative had posited at that point in time. This was very important, as all of the damage that the official story had alleged was caused by American Airlines Flight 77 could not have been caused by an airplane that flew in a path that took it North of the Citgo gas station before approaching the Pentagon. The conclusion was as inevitable as it was stunning: the Pentaplane must have flown over the Pentagon. CIT has done many videos, all of which I believe focus on the testimony of atleast 1 witness who claims to have seen what happened at the Pentagon from a good vantage point, recommends that for just diving in to their work, that they see National Security Alert, so this is the video I have put up below:




The second video is from Pilots for 9/11 Truth. This group, founded by current or former pilots, and whose core is the same, have focused on what occurred with the 4 planes that were allegedly hijacked by Al Qaeda on 9/11. They have also done many documentaries on the subject of these planes. I feel that the best video specifically regarding the Pentagon attack that they have made is 9/11: Attack on the Pentagon. The video incorporates the work done by CIT and its many points of its own as well. It was uploaded to the internet by Pilots for 9/11 Truth and can be found here:



I am hoping that people who participate in this thread watch atleast one (or part of one) of the videos from CIT or Pilots for 9/11 Truth that I have linked to above, and comment in a constructive manner as to whether they agree or disagree with the points made, and why.

Here's the biggest problem with the 'fly over' theory: its pointlessly elaborate. Why bother?

Answering that question is a lot harder then determining the most plausible explanation for what happened.

No, its not.

Do you have evidence to back that assertion?

That being said, when you add some facts together, I believe a plausible theory emerges.

Your theory isn't plausible.

Do you have evidence to back that assertion?

Nor does it address any of the myriad of flaws being raised. As crashing the plane into that location would have provided all the benefits.....

You seem to be assuming that the plane that approached the Pentagon is the same plane that the official story posits approached the Pentagon. If it was a different plane, I think it becomes rather clear why they wouldn't want to crash it into the Pentagon- people might notice it wasn't the same plane.

It would have been difficult if not impossible for a plane to have actually crashed into that part of the Pentagon. Pilots for 9/11 Truth explains why in the following video:

But easier to pull a f-14 tomcat pull up at the last minute with a passenger jet and fly up and over the pentagon at the last moment as a massive firery explosion rakes at its underbelly? All while faking massive amounts of physical evidence, convincing hundreds of impromptu co-conspirators to join in the conspiracy with perfect secrecy for a decade and a half?

Remember, this didn't happen in a field in the middle of Pennsylvania. But in broad day light within a few thousand yards of Reagan International Airport with the plane flying over I-395 during rush hour.

Difficult if not impossible describes your entire theory.

I like the fact that you seem to atleast be acknowledging that it's -possible-. Here's a question for you. Why do we only have a single video consisting of about 4 frames that allegedly shows a plane hitting the Pentagon? There were a lot more cameras that should have seen the plane (and remember, I -do- believe that a plane approached the Pentagon), yet the government insists the plane was invisible in all but that 4 frame video. Don't you think that's a bit strange?

The following video gets into this, as well as other anomalies of the Pentagon strike...

 

[phoenyx]

Ultimately, the whole flyover/flyaway theory falls when you ask WHY?

We clearly disagree on that.

Why go to such absurd lengths to plant faked evidence, hide the airliner with all passengers inside it, get DNA from them and transport it to the scene in time to plant it

First of all, do you know who it was, precisely, that claimed that they got this DNA evidence? Secondly, even assuming that DNA was obtained from the people that the government claimed it was obtained from, that doesn't mean that they got that DNA from the Pentagon.

place explosives in the exact configuration to LOOK like a plane hit the building

They did a poor job of it:
How could Flight 77 have caused bizarre pattern of interior Pentagon damage on 9/11?

while not alerting those working inside

This was probably made easier by the fact that the wing that was struck had been under construction shortly before 9/11.

(and while not being able to guarantee that the plane would actually approach that exact spot at that angle),

Few things are guaranteed in life, but if those who were behind the planting explosives in the Pentagon were the same people controlling where the plane that approached the Pentagon, then they could atleast have a good probability of things meshing together well.

You want a conspiracy theory? You want a way that the US government planned this whole thing and pulled it off? Here's the easiest way it could have been done. One of the trolls in the elaborate military industrial complex, perhaps Bubba Clinton himself, collaborates with Osama bin Laden to train suicide troops. He gets them into the country and funds their flight training, knowing that once they have control of the planes, there's no way we could or would stop them.

There is certainly some evidence that some of the alleged hijackers may have trained at U.S. bases. You may be interested in reading the following story from Newsweek, published just 3 days after 9/11:
Alleged Hijackers May Have Trained At U.S. Bases

That being said, that doesn't mean that they actually flew planes into buildings.

On Sept 11, the highjackers take over the planes and fly them into the buildings. Sick, isn't it? But if you insist that the government would plant explosives and pull off an extremely elaborate scheme to kill a bunch of Americans on 9/11, doesn't it make a whole lot more sense that it happened that way...

Initially, I believed the official story concerning all aspects of 9/11. It was definitely easier to just believe whatever the government said on the matter. But once I started looking at the -evidence-, I found that various assertions regarding the official story just didn't make sense. This was also the case concerning the Pentagon attack. Admittedly, it took me longer to come to this conclusion regarding the Pentagon. While many in the truth movement questioned the official story regarding the WTC buildings, many seemed reluctant to question the official story regarding the Pentagon attack. But some kept on bringing up discrepancies regarding the official story regarding the Pentagon attack that I felt were too important to dismiss. That's the short answer to your question. It'll take me a lot longer to explain all the details as to why I eventually rejected the official story regarding the Pentagon attack, but if you stick around, you may find out, and perhaps begin to harbour a few doubts of your own.

 

[phoenyx]

In case you're interested in digging a little deeper:
NILA SAGADEVAN ~ 9/11 : The Impossibility Of Flying Heavy Aircraft Without Training

Veterans Today?

No, Nila Sagadevan. Let me know if you read the article.

 

[phoenyx]

None of the witnesses recalled seeing a fly over.

So you say. Meanwhile, -some- of us still think it'd be worth trying to find the people who Erik Dihle mentioned in his interview with the U.S. Army's Center of Military History. You know, the ones he stated had said "were yelling that a bomb hit the Pentagon and that a jet kept on going."

That doesn't even begin to make sense.

Putting the plane above the Navy Annex on the southeast side where Morin claims he saw it, puts the plane on a direct course for the Pentagon.

No one is disputing that the plane approached the Pentagon. The issue is what flight path it took, as the flight path determines whether the damage at the Pentagon was caused by the plane, or something else. Paik, who saw the plane before Morin, puts the plane going northeast:

Morin continues this approach. A post in the Pilots for 9/11 Truth forum explains it well:
**CIT has made it abundantly clear that if the plane flew over the Navy Annex, it was on the NOC flight path.

In Terry Morin's account, he points out how the plane flew OVER the Navy Annex otherwise known as the BMDO/FOB or FOB #2 (Federal Office Building).

He clearly states that the plane:

-Flew "right over the top of me and the outer portion of the FOB"
-Was "50 ft above the FOB"
-"Cleared the 8th wing"
- Was involved in a "FOB flyover"

This is EXACTLY the flight path that Edward Paik describes...

**
Source: Pilots For 9/11 Truth Forum > Noc Witness: Terry Morin

Witnesses further down the flight path from Morin, continue this trend. Here's Lagasse's line:

Here's his partner's, Chadwick Brooks' line:

Here's Darryl Stafford's line, with his location marked by the yellow person icon:

You can see more of the witnesses lines here:
Flight path collection (CIT Research Forum)

When all 13 of CIT's initial witnesses are combined, this is the line you get:

Lloyd England is clearly the anomaly and the only one on the official flight path's trajectory. He is not a flight path witness per se, because he never claims to have seen the plane itself, only to have allegedly had his car speared by one of the light poles that the plane allegedly hit.

"Lloyd England is clearly the anomaly..."



Do you even hear yourself when you speak?

Evidence that you're wrong, you call an "anomaly."

Sigh -.-. I guess I'll have to revert to a video from Sesame Street to try to convey what I'm referring to here:


Google's first definition of anomaly is: "something that deviates from what is standard, normal, or expected"

If one story isn't like the rest, it's an anomaly.

And it still makes no sense why the pilot wouldn't fly over the lamp posts you claim were staged, but instead veer away from the lamp posts and away from the Pentagon.

From what all the witnesses who were in a good position to see the plane, the actual plane was nowhere near the lamp posts. You may recall that Lloyd never claims to have seen the plane himself, despite allegedly having been speared by a poll that is claimed was knocked down by the Pentaplane.

And it doesn't explain why there were no lamp posts taken down by the plane along the path you claim the plane flew.

According to the eyewitnesses with the best vantage points, the plane was always too high to hit any light polls.

 

[phoenyx]

There has already been a fair amount of discussion regarding what happened at the Pentagon in this forum, much of which I have participated in, in other threads. That being said, I think the other threads on the subject start off in a tone that clearly implies those behind the threads haven't studied the issue in much depth. In my view, this can lead to individuals entering the discussion, not really having much knowledge of the depth of evidence against the official story's version of events, which is why I intend to transfer any discussions I have been having with others regarding the Pentagon event in other threads to this one. I have studied and discussed the Pentagon event on 9/11 for years, and I think that while a 5 minute video known as "Pentagon Strike" is an excellent place to begin, it is only the beginning. For those who are unfamiliar with this video, The Pentagon Strike focuses on evidence that whatever happened at the Pentagon, it couldn't have been hit by a 757 airplane. I find much of this evidence is as compelling today as it was when it was first released. That video can be seen here:



For those who want to go beyond this point, I offer 2 additional videos, from 2 different organizations, and as well as some commentary on the organizations and the videos themselves.


The first is from Citizen Investigation Team, or CIT for short. This team of investigators, which have primarily been composed of Aldo Marquis and Craig Ranke, worked for many years on uncovering what really happened in the Pentagon attack. They went down to Arlington, Virginia, to video record the witnesses they found were in the best position to know exactly what happened during the Pentagon event. What they found out surprised them. Essentially, they found out that all the witnesses they found to be credible had the plane flying a path that took it North of a Citgo gas station that was directly east of the Pentagon at the time, instead of south of the Citgo gas station, which is what the official narrative had posited at that point in time. This was very important, as all of the damage that the official story had alleged was caused by American Airlines Flight 77 could not have been caused by an airplane that flew in a path that took it North of the Citgo gas station before approaching the Pentagon. The conclusion was as inevitable as it was stunning: the Pentaplane must have flown over the Pentagon. CIT has done many videos, all of which I believe focus on the testimony of atleast 1 witness who claims to have seen what happened at the Pentagon from a good vantage point, recommends that for just diving in to their work, that they see National Security Alert, so this is the video I have put up below:




The second video is from Pilots for 9/11 Truth. This group, founded by current or former pilots, and whose core is the same, have focused on what occurred with the 4 planes that were allegedly hijacked by Al Qaeda on 9/11. They have also done many documentaries on the subject of these planes. I feel that the best video specifically regarding the Pentagon attack that they have made is 9/11: Attack on the Pentagon. The video incorporates the work done by CIT and its many points of its own as well. It was uploaded to the internet by Pilots for 9/11 Truth and can be found here:



I am hoping that people who participate in this thread watch atleast one (or part of one) of the videos from CIT or Pilots for 9/11 Truth that I have linked to above, and comment in a constructive manner as to whether they agree or disagree with the points made, and why.

How did the plane and passengers get inside the Pentagon?

I and many others believe that the evidence that a plane (let alone Flight 77) and Flight 77's passengers got anywhere near the Pentagon is flimsy at best.

 

[Faun]

None of the witnesses recalled seeing a fly over.

So you say. Meanwhile, -some- of us still think it'd be worth trying to find the people who Erik Dihle mentioned in his interview with the U.S. Army's Center of Military History. You know, the ones he stated had said "were yelling that a bomb hit the Pentagon and that a jet kept on going."

That doesn't even begin to make sense.

Putting the plane above the Navy Annex on the southeast side where Morin claims he saw it, puts the plane on a direct course for the Pentagon.

No one is disputing that the plane approached the Pentagon. The issue is what flight path it took, as the flight path determines whether the damage at the Pentagon was caused by the plane, or something else. Paik, who saw the plane before Morin, puts the plane going northeast:

Morin continues this approach. A post in the Pilots for 9/11 Truth forum explains it well:
**CIT has made it abundantly clear that if the plane flew over the Navy Annex, it was on the NOC flight path.

In Terry Morin's account, he points out how the plane flew OVER the Navy Annex otherwise known as the BMDO/FOB or FOB #2 (Federal Office Building).

He clearly states that the plane:

-Flew "right over the top of me and the outer portion of the FOB"
-Was "50 ft above the FOB"
-"Cleared the 8th wing"
- Was involved in a "FOB flyover"

This is EXACTLY the flight path that Edward Paik describes...

**
Source: Pilots For 9/11 Truth Forum > Noc Witness: Terry Morin

Witnesses further down the flight path from Morin, continue this trend. Here's Lagasse's line:

Here's his partner's, Chadwick Brooks' line:

Here's Darryl Stafford's line, with his location marked by the yellow person icon:

You can see more of the witnesses lines here:
Flight path collection (CIT Research Forum)

When all 13 of CIT's initial witnesses are combined, this is the line you get:

Lloyd England is clearly the anomaly and the only one on the official flight path's trajectory. He is not a flight path witness per se, because he never claims to have seen the plane itself, only to have allegedly had his car speared by one of the light poles that the plane allegedly hit.

"Lloyd England is clearly the anomaly..."



Do you even hear yourself when you speak?

Evidence that you're wrong, you call an "anomaly."

Sigh -.-. I guess I'll have to revert to a video from Sesame Street to try to convey what I'm referring to here:


Google's first definition of anomaly is: "something that deviates from what is standard, normal, or expected"

If one story isn't like the rest, it's an anomaly.

And it still makes no sense why the pilot wouldn't fly over the lamp posts you claim were staged, but instead veer away from the lamp posts and away from the Pentagon.

From what all the witnesses who were in a good position to see the plane, the actual plane was nowhere near the lamp posts. You may recall that Lloyd never claims to have seen the plane himself, despite allegedly having been speared by a poll that is claimed was knocked down by the Pentaplane.

And it doesn't explain why there were no lamp posts taken down by the plane along the path you claim the plane flew.

According to the eyewitnesses with the best vantage points, the plane was always too high to hit any light polls.

All irrelevant now that we have the Citgo video which proves the plane flew south of it.

 

[SAYIT]

Nor does it address any of the myriad of flaws being raised. As crashing the plane into that location would have provided all the benefits.....

You seem to be assuming that the plane that approached the Pentagon is the same plane that the official story posits approached the Pentagon. If it was a different plane, I think it becomes rather clear why they wouldn't want to crash it into the Pentagon- people might notice it wasn't the same plane.

But no other plane (and no missile) approached the Pentagon that morning and no plane was seen pulling up and flying away as AA77 tore into the Pentagon. Additionally, the passengers, crew and AA77 have all been missing since 9/11/01.

But easier to pull a f-14 tomcat pull up at the last minute with a passenger jet and fly up and over the pentagon at the last moment as a massive fiery explosion rakes at its underbelly? All while faking massive amounts of physical evidence, convincing hundreds of impromptu co-conspirators to join in the conspiracy with perfect secrecy for a decade and a half? Difficult if not impossible describes your entire theory.

I like the fact that you seem to atleast be acknowledging that it's -possible...

That's your standard? That it's possible? I mean, it's also possible that the earth is flat, that man never walked on the Moon and that the Moon is therefore made of Jarlsberg Cheese but no rational adult believes such silliness.

What rational adults do is apply the same level of skepticism to the myriad of possibilities - including the many conflicting 9/11 CTs - to determine the most (and least) possible. When (and if) you manage to do that, you will quit your crusade and cease to be a "Truther." Hadit, Skylar and Faun have patiently tried to give you good cause to do so but to this posting you have stubbornly refused.

Why go to such absurd lengths to plant faked evidence, hide the airliner with all passengers inside it, get DNA from them and transport it to the scene in time to plant it

First of all, do you know who it was, precisely, that claimed that they got this DNA evidence? Secondly, even assuming that DNA was obtained from the people that the government claimed it was obtained from, that doesn't mean that they got that DNA from the Pentagon.

You have evidence to support that theory?

BTW, you clearly dodged Hadit's question: "Why go to such absurd lengths...?" Your theories are like Chia Pets ... they just grow and grow to fit your belief system (what some would call a religion) when there were many simpler ways to accomplish the same end. If, for example, explosives were involved rather than AA77, why do the whole exotic Pentaplane thing at all? Why add layers of complexity and risk of mistakes or exposure when the explosives could have been blamed on Islamic terror-rats and, as you would know if you really cared about the truth, the damage was not at all consistent with an explosion which would have required more silent co-conspirators (you know, that whole Chia Pet thing).

Initially, I believed the official story concerning all aspects of 9/11. It was definitely easier to just believe whatever the government said on the matter. But once I started looking at the -evidence-, I found that various assertions regarding the official story just didn't make sense...

Ironically, I initially took the 9/11 CTs seriously but upon further review, I found the authors to be either self-promoters, greedy bottom-feeders, insidious scummies, or any combo of the 3. Book tours, speaking engagements, radio ratings and all that fame was addictive and profitable. Additionally I found CT sheeple to be wearing narrow blinders and so totally committed to their CT Movement - regardless of how consistently their beliefs were refuted - that they were incapable of applying their highly-attuned skepticism and imaginations to the many, often conflicting CTs.

When stacked against the NIST findings those 9/11 CTs just seem shabby, shallow and highly implausible (if not impossible).

 

[Divine Wind]

......Do you comprehend the implication of ZERO witnesses? Where there where hundreds, if not thousands, of witnesses on every side of the Pentagon. Or is even that above your three year old intellect?

You are as batshit insane as anyone I've seen posting here. At this point, I'm inclined to believe just about anything you don't if for no other reason, you're a fruit loop dingus who never gets any conspiracy right.

Not insane. I'm sure IRL he appears normal and functions fine sweeping floors, cleaning toilets or whatever it is he does for a living. He's definitely delusional where these conspiracy theories are involved. That's a form of mental illness, but doesn't make him insane.

Paranoia and Conspiracy Theories - Personality Disorders
......What are the reasons for these beliefs in plots and why do they all involve government cover-ups?

Psychologists have been speculating for some time about this.

First, it’s important to say that conspiracies do happen. In fact, there is a kernel of truth or possibility behind all of these theories. Perhaps that is the reason why so many Americans believe in these theories. Given the national feeling of suspicion towards government at this time, it becomes understandable that there would be a tendency to believe in these conspiracies. Whether it’s the damage Richard Nixon did in our ability to trust government or Ronald Reagan’s assertion that “Government is the problem,” or a cultural aspect of American life that has always distrusted authority, we have an immediate tendency to believe that the government is up to no good.

Then, too, psychopathology is involved in the process of weaving these theories. Psychologists state that those whose personalities tend to be authoritarian are more likely to believe in conspiracies. In need of a sense of control over events, conspiracies provide them with an explanation for those events over which they cannot exert control......

 

[Faun]

......Do you comprehend the implication of ZERO witnesses? Where there where hundreds, if not thousands, of witnesses on every side of the Pentagon. Or is even that above your three year old intellect?

You are as batshit insane as anyone I've seen posting here. At this point, I'm inclined to believe just about anything you don't if for no other reason, you're a fruit loop dingus who never gets any conspiracy right.

Not insane. I'm sure IRL he appears normal and functions fine sweeping floors, cleaning toilets or whatever it is he does for a living. He's definitely delusional where these conspiracy theories are involved. That's a form of mental illness, but doesn't make him insane.

Paranoia and Conspiracy Theories - Personality Disorders
......What are the reasons for these beliefs in plots and why do they all involve government cover-ups?

Psychologists have been speculating for some time about this.

First, it’s important to say that conspiracies do happen. In fact, there is a kernel of truth or possibility behind all of these theories. Perhaps that is the reason why so many Americans believe in these theories. Given the national feeling of suspicion towards government at this time, it becomes understandable that there would be a tendency to believe in these conspiracies. Whether it’s the damage Richard Nixon did in our ability to trust government or Ronald Reagan’s assertion that “Government is the problem,” or a cultural aspect of American life that has always distrusted authority, we have an immediate tendency to believe that the government is up to no good.

Then, too, psychopathology is involved in the process of weaving these theories. Psychologists state that those whose personalities tend to be authoritarian are more likely to believe in conspiracies. In need of a sense of control over events, conspiracies provide them with an explanation for those events over which they cannot exert control......

I disagree. Anyone who believes an event like that, which has zero eyewitness accounts, and shines in stark contrast to the many eyewitness accounts the plane flew into the Pentagon, plus 3 different videos, none of which capture the plane flying over the Pentagon -- is absofuckinglutely batshit insane.