$4.15 a Gallon. Thank Goodness for Exxon!

[Big Fitz]

Today, the Republicans in the House of Representatives celebrated this massive redistribution of wealth from American families to oil executives.

So, lefties... wealth redistribution is bad after all?

 

[jeffrockit]

That was gross though wasn't it? Their profit margin is around 8 to 9 percent I believe, at least that's what it is with the ones that I'm involved with.

First? Whom is making money on OIL?

Speaks for itself...

Actually, it speaks to the CON$ervative habit of telling only half truths leaving it to the honest person to figure out what CON$ are leaving out!!!

The oil monopoly makes profit from more than just selling the gas!!!!!!!

They make a profit from taking the oil out of the ground and selling it on the open market. They make a profit on the refining of the crude oil. They make a profit on every step in the production of the gas before they make a profit on the sale of the gas.

In keeping with telling truths, lets continue:

"Just 1.5% of the stock in the major oil companies is owned by the corporate management of those companies. That leaves about 98.5% of the stock left!
The biggest share of the stock in these oil companies, 29.5%, is owned by mutual funds and 27% share of oil company stocks for you is in pension funds. These are funds for policeman, firemen, teachers and etc.
Individual investors own 23%.
IRAs account for 14% of all outstanding shares in big oil.
The last 5%? They’re listed as “other institutional investors.” Maybe some of these are foreign investors.
15 out of the 16 largest oil and gas companies in the world are owned by governments, the largest being Saudi Arabian Oil Co. with 19.19% of all proven worldwide reserves. ExxonMobil controls less than one percent of worldwide reserves.

So what we learn is that the evil, rich oil companies are actually making money for average workers. We definitely need to punish those filthy, money grubbing corps thereby punishing the middle class workers. When you break down the facts, you would have to be truly ignorant in justifying punishing the people...oops I mean those rotten oil companies.

 

[Big Fitz]

The gas taxes pay for the roads that we run our cars on. And, for rural states like Oregon, there are a lot of roads Eastside that serve very few people, people whose contribution is the food that we eat. So if you wish to bellyache about taxes, don't use the roads. No one forcing you to buy either an automobile or gas for it.

Well shit ... quit blaming the oil companies then. Like you said. No one is forcing you to buy either an automobile or gas.

They are more than welcome to stop exploiting and damaging the planet by using the following products that use oil:

anything that is transported by a vehicle requiring gas.
any method of transit powered by petroleum or petroleum based power.
anything made of plastics, resins or epoxies.
any electricity generated by oil or oil byproducts.

I believe that covers every product in existence in the 1st world that is not Amish made or in the deep rainforests of the Amaonian Basin.

 

[Big Fitz]

That was gross though wasn't it? Their profit margin is around 8 to 9 percent I believe, at least that's what it is with the ones that I'm involved with.

First? Whom is making money on OIL?

Speaks for itself...

Oops, my bad. not triple or quadruple the profit of Exxon Mobile.

okay... plus ten, carry te 2...

Using the average tax burden versus profit margin... that means the local state and federal governments profited about 820 billion.

Huh. wonder if that's greedy enough?

 

[editec]

We've had this conversation before.

They paid approximately 40% of their operating income in income taxes around the world.

And that doesn't count the excise taxes glommed on at the pump. Government taxes on a gallon of gas are higher than Exxon's profit margin.

I'd like to see those numbers if you don't mind.

I SUSPECT that most of that 40% is really them paying a fee to the governments for the OIL they take out of that nation's ground.

That's not really a TAX, then, is it?

 

[edthecynic]

First? Whom is making money on OIL?

Speaks for itself...

Actually, it speaks to the CON$ervative habit of telling only half truths leaving it to the honest person to figure out what CON$ are leaving out!!!

The oil monopoly makes profit from more than just selling the gas!!!!!!!

They make a profit from taking the oil out of the ground and selling it on the open market. They make a profit on the refining of the crude oil. They make a profit on every step in the production of the gas before they make a profit on the sale of the gas.

In keeping with telling truths, lets continue:

"Just 1.5% of the stock in the major oil companies is owned by the corporate management of those companies. That leaves about 98.5% of the stock left!
The biggest share of the stock in these oil companies, 29.5%, is owned by mutual funds and 27% share of oil company stocks for you is in pension funds. These are funds for policeman, firemen, teachers and etc.
Individual investors own 23%.
IRAs account for 14% of all outstanding shares in big oil.
The last 5%? They’re listed as “other institutional investors.” Maybe some of these are foreign investors.
15 out of the 16 largest oil and gas companies in the world are owned by governments, the largest being Saudi Arabian Oil Co. with 19.19% of all proven worldwide reserves. ExxonMobil controls less than one percent of worldwide reserves.

So what we learn is that the evil, rich oil companies are actually making money for average workers. We definitely need to punish those filthy, money grubbing corps thereby punishing the middle class workers. When you break down the facts, you would have to be truly ignorant in justifying punishing the people...oops I mean those rotten oil companies.

My child, you know nothing about how a monopoly is controlled. To do so you must understand the subtle difference between "ownership" and "control."

As an example, when the Standard Oil holding company was broken up, Rockefeller on paper owned 25% so some shareholders tried to oust him from the Board. When the vote was in, Rockefeller voted 60% of the proxies!!!! You see, you can't OWN a monopoly, but you can CONTROL one. All he did is switch control from a holding company to a bank.

Now to go through your list of OWNERS. Mutual funds and pensions are not voted by the stockholders but by the managers of the funds, like a bank. Again IRAs are not voted by the owners but by the managers, like a bank. So through the bank loophole in the antitrust law, you can control a monopoly that you don't own.
Get it?

 

[bripat9643]

I'd like to see those numbers if you don't mind.

I SUSPECT that most of that 40% is really them paying a fee to the governments for the OIL they take out of that nation's ground.

That's not really a TAX, then, is it?

Wrong. Payment for oil leases is not considered a tax.

 

[bripat9643]

My child, you know nothing about how a monopoly is controlled. To do so you must understand the subtle difference between "ownership" and "control."

As an example, when the Standard Oil holding company was broken up, Rockefeller on paper owned 25% so some shareholders tried to oust him from the Board. When the vote was in, Rockefeller voted 60% of the proxies!!!! You see, you can't OWN a monopoly, but you can CONTROL one. All he did is switch control from a holding company to a bank.

Now to go through your list of OWNERS. Mutual funds and pensions are not voted by the stockholders but by the managers of the funds, like a bank. Again IRAs are not voted by the owners but by the managers, like a bank. So through the bank loophole in the antitrust law, you can control a monopoly that you don't own.
Get it?

#1) Standard oil was not a monopoly.

#2) your story about Rockefeller is bullshit. Rockefeller's partner Henry Flager owned almost as much stock as Rockefeller. The owner of every company Rockefeller bought out ended up with shares of Standard oil, so your claim that Rockefeller could vote 60% of the stock is simply ludicrous.

#3) Whether the stockholders vote their shares themselves or some prepresentative votes their shares is immaterial. The point is that the executives only control a small percentage of the stock.

 

[Big Fitz]

Actually, it speaks to the CON$ervative habit of telling only half truths leaving it to the honest person to figure out what CON$ are leaving out!!!

The oil monopoly makes profit from more than just selling the gas!!!!!!!

They make a profit from taking the oil out of the ground and selling it on the open market. They make a profit on the refining of the crude oil. They make a profit on every step in the production of the gas before they make a profit on the sale of the gas.

In keeping with telling truths, lets continue:

"Just 1.5% of the stock in the major oil companies is owned by the corporate management of those companies. That leaves about 98.5% of the stock left!
The biggest share of the stock in these oil companies, 29.5%, is owned by mutual funds and 27% share of oil company stocks for you is in pension funds. These are funds for policeman, firemen, teachers and etc.
Individual investors own 23%.
IRAs account for 14% of all outstanding shares in big oil.
The last 5%? They’re listed as “other institutional investors.” Maybe some of these are foreign investors.
15 out of the 16 largest oil and gas companies in the world are owned by governments, the largest being Saudi Arabian Oil Co. with 19.19% of all proven worldwide reserves. ExxonMobil controls less than one percent of worldwide reserves.

So what we learn is that the evil, rich oil companies are actually making money for average workers. We definitely need to punish those filthy, money grubbing corps thereby punishing the middle class workers. When you break down the facts, you would have to be truly ignorant in justifying punishing the people...oops I mean those rotten oil companies.

My child, you know nothing about how a monopoly is controlled. To do so you must understand the subtle difference between "ownership" and "control."

As an example, when the Standard Oil holding company was broken up, Rockefeller on paper owned 25% so some shareholders tried to oust him from the Board. When the vote was in, Rockefeller voted 60% of the proxies!!!! You see, you can't OWN a monopoly, but you can CONTROL one. All he did is switch control from a holding company to a bank.

Now to go through your list of OWNERS. Mutual funds and pensions are not voted by the stockholders but by the managers of the funds, like a bank. Again IRAs are not voted by the owners but by the managers, like a bank. So through the bank loophole in the antitrust law, you can control a monopoly that you don't own.
Get it?

You were right that Standard Oil WAS a monopoly till the Sherman Anti Trust act. It was both a Vertical and Horizontal monopoly. That has long since been shattered. They don't call them 'The Seven Sisters" in Houston and Fairbanks for nothing.

You have proof the whole oil industry is a trust controlled by covert, conspiratorial interests manipulating the price of oil for world conquest and a peanut butter eggplant sandwich?

Since too many seem to think nothing exists without a link, please show the links or direct me to your source information.

 

[edthecynic]

My child, you know nothing about how a monopoly is controlled. To do so you must understand the subtle difference between "ownership" and "control."

As an example, when the Standard Oil holding company was broken up, Rockefeller on paper owned 25% so some shareholders tried to oust him from the Board. When the vote was in, Rockefeller voted 60% of the proxies!!!! You see, you can't OWN a monopoly, but you can CONTROL one. All he did is switch control from a holding company to a bank.

Now to go through your list of OWNERS. Mutual funds and pensions are not voted by the stockholders but by the managers of the funds, like a bank. Again IRAs are not voted by the owners but by the managers, like a bank. So through the bank loophole in the antitrust law, you can control a monopoly that you don't own.
Get it?

#1) Standard oil was not a monopoly.

#2) your story about Rockefeller is bullshit. Rockefeller's partner Henry Flager owned almost as much stock as Rockefeller. The owner of every company Rockefeller bought out ended up with shares of Standard oil, so your claim that Rockefeller could vote 60% of the stock is simply ludicrous.

#3) Whether the stockholders vote their shares themselves or some prepresentative votes their shares is immaterial. The point is that the executives only control a small percentage of the stock.

#1)

#2) The fact remains that Rockefeller voted 60% of the proxies after Standard Oil was broken up for being a monopoly.

#3) Who vote the shares is the most material thing on Earth!!! Who votes the shares CONTROLS the company.

This is the thing about CON$ervative willful ignorance, no matter how much you expose them to the truth, it never sinks in.

 

[Big Fitz]

#1) Standard oil was not a monopoly.

This is the only thing he said that I do know was true. They bought out their competitors so fast and completely, Bill Gates is jealous. They were also a vertical monopoly because they wanted to minimize costs and keep as much money possible in house so from prospector to driller to trucker to refiner to gas station, Standard Oil owned all the pieces. That was also busted under the Sherman Anti Trust Act. They were not allowed to own ALL pieces of their product nor control more than X percentage of the whole market.

So on that ONE point, I have to give EdtheCretin credit (yes, another red letter day). After that... you may be right. I can't answer clearly at this time.

 

[Big Fitz]

My child, you know nothing about how a monopoly is controlled. To do so you must understand the subtle difference between "ownership" and "control."

As an example, when the Standard Oil holding company was broken up, Rockefeller on paper owned 25% so some shareholders tried to oust him from the Board. When the vote was in, Rockefeller voted 60% of the proxies!!!! You see, you can't OWN a monopoly, but you can CONTROL one. All he did is switch control from a holding company to a bank.

Now to go through your list of OWNERS. Mutual funds and pensions are not voted by the stockholders but by the managers of the funds, like a bank. Again IRAs are not voted by the owners but by the managers, like a bank. So through the bank loophole in the antitrust law, you can control a monopoly that you don't own.
Get it?

#1) Standard oil was not a monopoly.

#2) your story about Rockefeller is bullshit. Rockefeller's partner Henry Flager owned almost as much stock as Rockefeller. The owner of every company Rockefeller bought out ended up with shares of Standard oil, so your claim that Rockefeller could vote 60% of the stock is simply ludicrous.

#3) Whether the stockholders vote their shares themselves or some prepresentative votes their shares is immaterial. The point is that the executives only control a small percentage of the stock.

#1)

#2) The fact remains that Rockefeller voted 60% of the proxies after Standard Oil was broken up for being a monopoly.

#3) Who vote the shares is the most material thing on Earth!!! Who votes the shares CONTROLS the company.

This is the thing about CON$ervative willful ignorance, no matter how much you expose them to the truth, it never sinks in.

Now Ed, the burden of proof is on you to show that Rockefeller did control 60% of all VOTING shares. I wouldn't be surprised if it was true, because that's often the way the 'Robber Barons" operated back in the late 1800's till they were busted with the financial and industrial reforms from the TR to Coolidge eras.

 

[editec]

I'd like to see those numbers if you don't mind.

I SUSPECT that most of that 40% is really them paying a fee to the governments for the OIL they take out of that nation's ground.

That's not really a TAX, then, is it?

Wrong. Payment for oil leases is not considered a tax.

Well, that's sort of my point, wasn't it. Bri?

That's why I asked for clarification and evidence of the stated fact.

Where did this statistic come from?

 

[thereisnospoon]

Exxon will be getting all of my business for SURE now!

ThinkProgress » Exxon Makes $30.5 Billion, So GOP Votes Unanimously To Give Them Tax Breaks

Don't forget to triple to quadruple that number to see how much the federal government made in taxes off the sale of the same gasoline.

Are we upset that consumers were soaked for 90-120 billion more in local, state and federal taxes on their product?

Please also remember that oil companies profit percentage is less than 10% off it's total earnings.

Lastly, Oil companies, in order to make it possible to buy new equipment are allowed to have 'accelerated depreciation' of all their goods. That means they can write off that drill bit, or pump or drilling platform in one shot the year it's bought. This is most often what's being called a 'tax break'. Most business expenses have to be depreciated over the expected life of the product. The end result is the same, but the accelerated depreciation allows one HUGE shot in tax breaks so they are able to go out and next year buy MORE equipment. So if you expect an item, under normal depreciation rates to last 10 years, you can write off 10% of it's cost per year over it's entire life. But under accelerated rules, you take a 100% bump off your taxes for the value of the bit, and pay full taxes the other 9 years. The convenient little 'oops' they forget to tell you when they scream about the oil companies not paying their fair share... they're doing it by the government's own rules AND using those rules to try and expand their business so they can produce more and... wait for it... make more profit!!!!

So... EZ, love ya, but be careful.

your avatar....pretty cool . from "Big Trouble in Little China"....Funny movie .
Now to your post....Last lines...
Yep. Spot on.....The reaction from the uninformed hysterical about profits Left...."But what about..."
In other words they don't know shit. The Left is simply reacting to expensive gas same as everyone else ,but are in serious circle the wagons mode because they know their guy in the White House is on the hook for $4 gas....

 

[Trajan]

Google = 28.43%

Microsoft = 31.76%

Exxon = 9.53%

Which profit margin on which angle of their operations?
Drilling?
Hauling?
refining?
Retailing?

refining and retailing are generally contract services, franchises and/or privately owned.


as we saw, say with the BP issue; the platform was a contract service, BP owned the rights to what they pulled out but they paid one co. for the platform and another to man and operate it.

Refineries contract to refine with co's, they set a price and any co. who bids for their volume to refine charges the price point, the major players being- Valero, Tesoro and Sunoco.

of course theres a school of thought that says hey no one really wants build refineries because then there will be more gas and it will be cheaper, sure, as if bulk/volume sales don't make money either, and competition means squat, forgetting that when you load regs and costs on the back end, it may make it more costly and in the end isn't worth the trouble as the gain may be marginal, but of course that gets little attention.


The FACT is the states and feds make far more and have more to gain via sale of every gallon of gas than the private entity that brings it to the table-

then of course you have this-

States Consider Taxing Electric Cars to Make Up For Lost Gas Tax Revenue

http://www.plugincars.com/states-consider-taxing-evs-make-lost-gas-tax-revenue-106946.html

so whos the glutton now?

 

[edthecynic]

In keeping with telling truths, lets continue:

"Just 1.5% of the stock in the major oil companies is owned by the corporate management of those companies. That leaves about 98.5% of the stock left!
The biggest share of the stock in these oil companies, 29.5%, is owned by mutual funds and 27% share of oil company stocks for you is in pension funds. These are funds for policeman, firemen, teachers and etc.
Individual investors own 23%.
IRAs account for 14% of all outstanding shares in big oil.
The last 5%? They’re listed as “other institutional investors.” Maybe some of these are foreign investors.
15 out of the 16 largest oil and gas companies in the world are owned by governments, the largest being Saudi Arabian Oil Co. with 19.19% of all proven worldwide reserves. ExxonMobil controls less than one percent of worldwide reserves.

So what we learn is that the evil, rich oil companies are actually making money for average workers. We definitely need to punish those filthy, money grubbing corps thereby punishing the middle class workers. When you break down the facts, you would have to be truly ignorant in justifying punishing the people...oops I mean those rotten oil companies.

My child, you know nothing about how a monopoly is controlled. To do so you must understand the subtle difference between "ownership" and "control."

As an example, when the Standard Oil holding company was broken up, Rockefeller on paper owned 25% so some shareholders tried to oust him from the Board. When the vote was in, Rockefeller voted 60% of the proxies!!!! You see, you can't OWN a monopoly, but you can CONTROL one. All he did is switch control from a holding company to a bank.

Now to go through your list of OWNERS. Mutual funds and pensions are not voted by the stockholders but by the managers of the funds, like a bank. Again IRAs are not voted by the owners but by the managers, like a bank. So through the bank loophole in the antitrust law, you can control a monopoly that you don't own.
Get it?

You were right that Standard Oil WAS a monopoly till the Sherman Anti Trust act. It was both a Vertical and Horizontal monopoly. That has long since been shattered. They don't call them 'The Seven Sisters" in Houston and Fairbanks for nothing.

You have proof the whole oil industry is a trust controlled by covert, conspiratorial interests manipulating the price of oil for world conquest and a peanut butter eggplant sandwich?

Since too many seem to think nothing exists without a link, please show the links or direct me to your source information.

The two best books on how the Super-Rich control their monopolies are:
America's 60 Families, published in 1937, and The Rich And The Super-Rich, published in 1968, both by Ferdinand Lundberg.

America's 60 Families is available for free online below, but The Rich And The Super-Rich is out of print, although used copies can be had from Amazon. Live dangerously, try reading something you will never hear about on GOP hate radio or the Liberal MSM.

Full text of "Americas 60 Families"

 

[Big Fitz]

My child, you know nothing about how a monopoly is controlled. To do so you must understand the subtle difference between "ownership" and "control."

As an example, when the Standard Oil holding company was broken up, Rockefeller on paper owned 25% so some shareholders tried to oust him from the Board. When the vote was in, Rockefeller voted 60% of the proxies!!!! You see, you can't OWN a monopoly, but you can CONTROL one. All he did is switch control from a holding company to a bank.

Now to go through your list of OWNERS. Mutual funds and pensions are not voted by the stockholders but by the managers of the funds, like a bank. Again IRAs are not voted by the owners but by the managers, like a bank. So through the bank loophole in the antitrust law, you can control a monopoly that you don't own.
Get it?

You were right that Standard Oil WAS a monopoly till the Sherman Anti Trust act. It was both a Vertical and Horizontal monopoly. That has long since been shattered. They don't call them 'The Seven Sisters" in Houston and Fairbanks for nothing.

You have proof the whole oil industry is a trust controlled by covert, conspiratorial interests manipulating the price of oil for world conquest and a peanut butter eggplant sandwich?

Since too many seem to think nothing exists without a link, please show the links or direct me to your source information.

The two best books on how the Super-Rich control their monopolies are:
America's 60 Families, published in 1937, and The Rich And The Super-Rich, published in 1968, both by Ferdinand Lundberg.

America's 60 Families is available for free online below, but The Rich And The Super-Rich is out of print, although used copies can be had from Amazon. Live dangerously, try reading something you will never hear about on GOP hate radio or the Liberal MSM.

Full text of "Americas 60 Families"

Well, I have to say I'm impressed Ed. You didn't dip into the Bilderberg conspiracies, gnomes of Zurich or any other typical conspiracy stuff. Be interesting to peruse this book and see what it has to say. But like reading Morgan Spurlock, I know to not swallow it without having it run through a lab first.

 

[edthecynic]

#1) Standard oil was not a monopoly.

#2) your story about Rockefeller is bullshit. Rockefeller's partner Henry Flager owned almost as much stock as Rockefeller. The owner of every company Rockefeller bought out ended up with shares of Standard oil, so your claim that Rockefeller could vote 60% of the stock is simply ludicrous.

#3) Whether the stockholders vote their shares themselves or some prepresentative votes their shares is immaterial. The point is that the executives only control a small percentage of the stock.

#1)

#2) The fact remains that Rockefeller voted 60% of the proxies after Standard Oil was broken up for being a monopoly.

#3) Who vote the shares is the most material thing on Earth!!! Who votes the shares CONTROLS the company.

This is the thing about CON$ervative willful ignorance, no matter how much you expose them to the truth, it never sinks in.

Now Ed, the burden of proof is on you to show that Rockefeller did control 60% of all VOTING shares. I wouldn't be surprised if it was true, because that's often the way the 'Robber Barons" operated back in the late 1800's till they were busted with the financial and industrial reforms from the TR to Coolidge eras.

Rockefeller voted 60% of the proxies AFTER Standard Oil was "busted." Again, banks are immune to antitrust laws. For example, say the police put their pension fund in a bank. The bank buys stock in the name of the pension fund who now own the stock, but the bank votes the stock proxies. All Rockefeller did was transfer control from Standard Oil to Chase National Bank and his fund and foundation "charities."

Charities that the Super-Rich control are also another means to control a monopoly. The "charity" owns the stock it is endowed with, but the head of the charity votes the proxies. The Rockefeller Family has over 2000 such "charities" that they control, so very small amounts of stock, well below any SEC reporting requirements, can be spread out among them.

The advantage banks have over "charities" is with banks you get to use other people's money.

There is a whole chapter in The Rich And The Super-Rich on the cleverness of the rich.

 

[kiwiman127]

Having profits at the around 10% or less isn't that uncommon. With the reasoning that it's OK for Big Oil to get billions in Corporate Welfare, then it must be alright for ALL corporations with 10% or less of a profit margin to get billions in Corporate Welfare. If not, why not?

Below is the list of industries average by profit margin. (Click to enlarge)

 

[Mr. Shaman]

In typical lib fashion, the article never gives any specifics about what the bill actually does. Instead, it offers all kinds of value judgements completely unsupported by any facts.

There's a LOT-o'-that goin'-around.....​

"Another area of concern already mentioned by other people on this dais is high commodity prices. Consumers across the coutnry face higher oil and food prices. If we don’t want an economic revival to stall these prices have to come down. Good news yesterday was that oil prices did come down under a hundred dollars a barrell. What happened yesterday? Oh, the House passed a bill."

"Burgess’s argument is based on a flawed premise. It assumes that increasing drilling would increase supply and thus lower oil prices."

"conservative" Bullshit-As-Usual