$15 minimum wage would destroy 1.4 Million jobs

[Ray From Cleveland]

60%+ of American workers earn $20/hr or less. Almost all of them will either get or demand a raise. That has a big effect on the market.

Yep. It will increase the cost of living and create inflation. So those 60% of workers are going to feel jilted to satisfy 3.5% of the workforce. That's what a Democrat considers success. That's why they should never be allowed power.

 

[hadit]

60%+ of American workers earn $20/hr or less. Almost all of them will either get or demand a raise. That has a big effect on the market.

Yep. It will increase the cost of living and create inflation. So those 60% of workers are going to feel jilted to satisfy 3.5% of the workforce. That's what a Democrat considers success. That's why they should never be allowed power.

And they seem to think they can do it overnight with no negative impact at all.

 

[Dadoalex]

Perhaps it would be a good exercise for them to look back at the economy from the 50s to 70s when the Republican party started their multi-decade war on unions.

How did they have a war on unions? And don't say Reagan. He only dismantled one union for striking when they weren't allowed to.

Were you born like last tuesday?
Why is it that what is historical fact seems to totally evade your conscience.

Normally I simply tell people like you that it's not my role to education them on basic history but, because I'm a sweet guy, I did the search for you.

republican war on unions - Google Search

Peruse at your leisure.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

And you show a complete ignorance of actual economics.

A business operates with the minimum level of staffing required to run the business.
Cutting employees cuts the business' ability to function.
Increasing pay increases the competence of employees as less competent employees are replaced by better employees interested in the better wage.
This increases the business' performance.
Increasing the wages at the lower level increases economic activity, the basis of every tax cut Republicans have ever supported.
By increasing that economic activity at the lowest level we increase hiring at that level which reduces unemployment
Which, in turn, reduces government spending
The business owner may, in the short term, experience lower profits but, over the longer term, their businesses will grow because of increased demand.

This really is just basic economics and, unlike Truman, you don't need two hands to figure it out.

Apparently you do. The big guy never loses, that's just a fact of life. If a business owner is making a million dollars a year as a payroll for himself, you can double his taxes, make minimum wage $20.00 an hour, and legislate they have to provide quality healthcare plans with no employee contribution, and they will still make a million dollars a year. Why? Because he passes all his losses to the little guy, and we actually pay for it.

If any company thought that paying a higher wage was the key to success and better employees, nobody would pay minimum wage. In fact they'd stay far from it. But studies show that increasing an employees wage does not make them anymore productive. In fact studies show bonuses do more for making workers more productive than wage increases.

When the cost of doing business becomes too high, business owners find a way to bring that back down. More outsourcing. More automation investments. Transferring losses to the customer in higher priced products or services. Reducing employee benefits. Moving out of the country. After all, that's what unions did with these rose colored predictions they made.

 

[Dadoalex]

What was the purpose of the payroll tax cut?
To put more money in the hands of the lowest earners
BECAUSE
When those people get money they spend it which increases demand.
The same is true of a minimum wage increase.

Why is this basic economic truth so hard for you people to understand?

Because when you increase one group of wages, especially that dramatically, it creates a domino effect. That increases the cost of living, and at the end, the person who's minimum wage increased isn't any further ahead because everything they buy or services they use goes up in price.

Pretty sure the proposal is for graduated increases over several years.
If you've other information please source it.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Were you born like last tuesday?
Why is it that what is historical fact seems to totally evade your conscience.

Normally I simply tell people like you that it's not my role to education them on basic history but, because I'm a sweet guy, I did the search for you.

So in other words you can't answer my question. Why not just say so in the first place?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Pretty sure the proposal is for graduated increases over several years.
If you've other information please source it.

We don't know what or how they will do it because it hasn't been drawn up in a bill yet. Earlier this week Biden said he's not going to increase it.

 

[dblack]

Pretty sure the proposal is for graduated increases over several years.
If you've other information please source it.

And why would that be, if not to mitigate the negative impact and give the market time to adjust? And that's the thing - the market will adjust. You can't just dictate the value of labor (or anything else) by passing a law. Once things settle, the relative value of low wage workers will be the same. To put it another way, when the government decrees that a $10/hr job will now pay $15/hr, all they've really said is that $15 is now worth $10. The real value of the labor in doesn't change. If society doesn't value burger-flipping enough for someone to raise a family flipping burgers, when all is done, whatever games you play with the numbers, society still won't value burger-flipping enough for someone to raise a family flipping burgers.

 

[danielpalos]

The government can't force me to take labor that's more costly than value added.

You only need to try to maximize your profit regardless of costs.

If I could raise the price with no ill-effect, I would have done so already.

So how much should wages be for someone who adds $10/hour of value?

Show your calculations.

Show your calculations on how you arrived at the value they add. You have no control over any form of inflation.

 

[danielpalos]

What's nonsensical is the belief that you can mandate market value by government decree.

Market cost is what is mandated. Profit is more than just market value.

 

[danielpalos]

What was the purpose of the payroll tax cut?

Why are you bringing a temporary tax cut into the discussion?

After you've increased employment costs by 50%, how much is demand going to increase?

\

That is not how it works. Not all employees wages will be doubling. Price inflation for a burger at a fast food place will be five percent or less.

 

[danielpalos]

Where does it say that?

It is the supply side paradigm. Supply, supply, supply.

 

[danielpalos]

Pretty sure the proposal is for graduated increases over several years.
If you've other information please source it.

And why would that be, if not to mitigate the negative impact and give the market time to adjust? And that's the thing - the market will adjust. You can't just dictate the value of labor (or anything else) by passing a law. Once things settle, the relative value of low wage workers will be the same. To put it another way, when the government decrees that a $10/hr job will now pay $15/hr, all they've really said is that $15 is now worth $10. The real value of the labor in doesn't change. If society doesn't value burger-flipping enough for someone to raise a family flipping burgers, when all is done, whatever games you play with the numbers, society still won't value burger-flipping enough for someone to raise a family flipping burgers.

Inflation happens. Value changes in response to any inflation. Profit is what Capitalists must seek regardless if they want to stay in business.

 

[danielpalos]

60%+ of American workers earn $20/hr or less. Almost all of them will either get or demand a raise. That has a big effect on the market.

Yep. It will increase the cost of living and create inflation. So those 60% of workers are going to feel jilted to satisfy 3.5% of the workforce. That's what a Democrat considers success. That's why they should never be allowed power.

And they seem to think they can do it overnight with no negative impact at all.

Stock can double overnight with no consequences.

 

[hadit]

Where does it say that?

It is the supply side paradigm. Supply, supply, supply.

IOW, you made it up like everything else.

 

[hadit]

60%+ of American workers earn $20/hr or less. Almost all of them will either get or demand a raise. That has a big effect on the market.

Yep. It will increase the cost of living and create inflation. So those 60% of workers are going to feel jilted to satisfy 3.5% of the workforce. That's what a Democrat considers success. That's why they should never be allowed power.

And they seem to think they can do it overnight with no negative impact at all.

Stock can double overnight with no consequences.

Oh, Lord have mercy. You have truly lost it. The sad thing is, you actually think there's a valid comparison there. Here's a hint, there isn't. Here's another one, stock prices aren't arbitrarily set by the government. It's sad, but I really have to explain this to you.

 

[hadit]

What was the purpose of the payroll tax cut?

Why are you bringing a temporary tax cut into the discussion?

After you've increased employment costs by 50%, how much is demand going to increase?

\

That is not how it works. Not all employees wages will be doubling. Price inflation for a burger at a fast food place will be five percent or less.

Where do you get your numbers? Cite the source please, and don't try to wander off into your vague generalities like you always do. And, since you're short on math, a 50% increase is not doubling.

 

[hadit]

Pretty sure the proposal is for graduated increases over several years.
If you've other information please source it.

And why would that be, if not to mitigate the negative impact and give the market time to adjust? And that's the thing - the market will adjust. You can't just dictate the value of labor (or anything else) by passing a law. Once things settle, the relative value of low wage workers will be the same. To put it another way, when the government decrees that a $10/hr job will now pay $15/hr, all they've really said is that $15 is now worth $10. The real value of the labor in doesn't change. If society doesn't value burger-flipping enough for someone to raise a family flipping burgers, when all is done, whatever games you play with the numbers, society still won't value burger-flipping enough for someone to raise a family flipping burgers.

And after the dust settles, they'll be back, complaining that $15/hr isn't enough and they'll want $20.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The government can't force me to take labor that's more costly than value added.

You only need to try to maximize your profit regardless of costs.

If I could raise the price with no ill-effect, I would have done so already.

So how much should wages be for someone who adds $10/hour of value?

Show your calculations.

Show your calculations on how you arrived at the value they add.

Show your calculations on how you arrived at the value they add.

If you take $9 worth of materials and depreciation and turn it into a $20 product, you added
$11 in value. If it took you one hour to do it, what should your hourly wage be?

You have no control over any form of inflation.

Don't be stupid, I never claimed I did. Ever.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

What was the purpose of the payroll tax cut?

Why are you bringing a temporary tax cut into the discussion?

After you've increased employment costs by 50%, how much is demand going to increase?

\

That is not how it works. Not all employees wages will be doubling. Price inflation for a burger at a fast food place will be five percent or less.

That is not how it works. Not all employees wages will be doubling.

After you've increased employment costs by 50% Durr!

Price inflation for a burger at a fast food place will be five percent or less.

how much is demand going to increase?

Can you at least TRY to read what I actually posted?