Ya know? How about an honest discussion.

[Big Black Dog]

Why does the "opposition" party oppose this thing based on 1/2 lies, and 1/2 truths? Why lie? I fucking hate liars.

I agree too. Like when Obama said on national tv that the AARP supported his proposed Health Care Reform bill. That was a big lie that the AARP immediately cleared up for the American people. The only time politicians tell the truth is when they call each other liars.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Some people amaze me man.

In the spirit of politics, it was 1,000% predictable that the "opposition" party would disapprove of ANY bill proposed regarding Healthcare.

But why can't I, an everyday non-partisan American hear some honest discussions on the subject without having to be so cynical, without having to read 1,000+ pages?

Why does the "opposition" party oppose this thing based on 1/2 lies, and 1/2 truths? Why lie? I fucking hate liars.

I remember when the 2006 debating began before that election, then the same in 2008. The Conservative guys like Limbaugh and Hannity ratcheted up their mean-spirited rhetoric and after some fact checks, I found they were fibbing (not all the way lies) around 50% of the time.

I can recall thinking, ya know, these guys' attitudes and mean spirit aren't going to do any good in getting votes. Most Americans are probably good people, and don't want to hear such negative angles on every little thing. No honest discussions from these fellows, such straight oppose oppose oppose and negative viewpoints. Why? Why? Why!!

My prediction came to fruition. The country is not as retarted as the sensationalizers and mean-spirited hosts think. Their ratings rose, because people enjoy controversial viewpoints. As their ratings rose, their voting support dropped. (odd)

Here you have this:
FACT CHECK: Health overhaul myths taking root - Yahoo! News


A prime example of why I, a regular assed dude, am frustrated with my Country's political discussion. It's childish, and it makes me want to off politics and pop someone in the jugular.

So, thanks alot for the honest discussion on such an important issue in healthcare(important in my life), and yah....Obama's a nazi!! (ARGGGHHHH!)

*grow the fuck up, political "debaters"

In fact, support for this bill is based almost entirely on lies. Obama promised he would rein in health care costs, but the CBO has told us HR 3200 will cause health care costs to increase more rapidly. The title of the bill promises that health insurance will be more affordable, but each reform, such as insurance at standard rates for those with pre existing conditions, continuation of coverage if you stop paying premiums because of loss of income due to illness, caps on out of pocket expenses, etc., all good things, will increase costs to insurance companies or a public plan and that will increase what you have to pay for health insurance. How much more will you have to pay? No one knows. Will it be 1% more? 5% more? 10% more? 20% more? More than 20%? No one knows because no one has asked the CBO to cost out just how much these reforms will increase the premiums you have to pay for your health insurance. Would you order dinner in a restaurant that doesn't put the prices on its menu? Then why would you support a bill that doesn't tell you how much it's going to take out of your pocket in higher health insurance premiums, not out of some rich guy's pocket, directly out of your pocket every month?

Since we don't know how much these reforms will cause health insurance premiums to increase, we don't know how much it will cost to provide health insurance to those who are currently uninsured. The estimates by Congressional committees and the CBO have all been made on the basis of what health insurance costs now, but since that cost will go up if all these proposed reforms pass, the cost of providing health insurance to those now uninsured will certainly be higher than these estimates. So just how much more will this bill add to the deficit? Again, we just don't know because no one has asked the CBO to cost out just how much more these reforms will increase the cost of health insurance. Does any member of Congress who supports this bill without first demanding to know how much these reforms will cost his constituents and how much they will add to the deficit deserve to have a seat in Congress?

This bill increases eligibility for Medicaid to 150% of the poverty level, which means that Medicaid eligibility rolls will increase by more than 50%, but makes no provisions for where the states' share of this new expense is to come from. With many states already teetering on the brink of bankruptcy, how will they raise the hundreds of millions to billions of dollars this bill will demand of them? Raise state taxes? Cut state services such as education or law enforcement? Will local governments have to raise property taxes to offset state cutbacks or cut services such as education, police and fire protection? Does any Congressperson who supports this bill without first demanding to know just how the cost of this Medicaid increase will effect taxes, state and local services and the economy in his state and in his district in these difficult economic times deserve to sit in Congress?

If you really hate liars, then Obama and the other Dem leaders should be at the top of your shit list because they have done nothing but lie to the country about how this bill will effect the cost of health care, how it will effect the deficit, how it will effect our national economy, how it will effect state economies and just how much money it will take out of the pockets of people who now have health insurance every month because the reforms it proposes will increase the cost of health insurance.

 

[cunclusion]

By the way Factcheck.org or whatever the fuck it's called doesn't tell the WHOLE truth. The bill doesn't say it will cover illegal immigrants, but it doesn't say it wouldn't either. The bill does provide cuts in Medicare,( 500 billion in the next ten years) which will effect senior citizens. Oh but factcheck doesn't mention that huh? How convenient.

But to be honest illegal immigrants already get free healthcare and we pay for it.

Agreed. And to be honest, that will continue in cases of emergencies just as it does now.

So based on that shouldnt we get more since we have to pay one way or another. The waiting thing is crazy I was in the Emergency room for 8 hours having an asthma attack left went home thank goodness that a couple of my cousins were nurses and able to get me a breathing treatment.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Let's make sure I have this straight. You claim to be non-partisan, and want an honest discussion, then link to us to a Associated Press article? AP, who is sucking Obama's dick since Day One? All in one post?

Excuse me while I seek medical attention for my splitting sides!



http://eipnetworks.com/clear.mp3

 

[strollingbones]

another factor that prevents discussion if the 'dumbing' of americans.....people wont or dont read or research anything....so they have to go by some trumped up party line...hiding behind partisan shit allows people to "think" they know what they are talking about when they only know what the are 'parroting' this concept applies to both parties and all people regardless of political party... we have become to lazy to govern ourselves...too lazy to read...we must be spoon feed facts by punits.

 

[wvpeach]

Excellent , excellent post GT!

Tell it like it is man!

The truth always finds it's way to the light!

Some people amaze me man.

In the spirit of politics, it was 1,000% predictable that the "opposition" party would disapprove of ANY bill proposed regarding Healthcare.

But why can't I, an everyday non-partisan American hear some honest discussions on the subject without having to be so cynical, without having to read 1,000+ pages?

Why does the "opposition" party oppose this thing based on 1/2 lies, and 1/2 truths? Why lie? I fucking hate liars.

I remember when the 2006 debating began before that election, then the same in 2008. The Conservative guys like Limbaugh and Hannity ratcheted up their mean-spirited rhetoric and after some fact checks, I found they were fibbing (not all the way lies) around 50% of the time.

I can recall thinking, ya know, these guys' attitudes and mean spirit aren't going to do any good in getting votes. Most Americans are probably good people, and don't want to hear such negative angles on every little thing. No honest discussions from these fellows, such straight oppose oppose oppose and negative viewpoints. Why? Why? Why!!

My prediction came to fruition. The country is not as retarted as the sensationalizers and mean-spirited hosts think. Their ratings rose, because people enjoy controversial viewpoints. As their ratings rose, their voting support dropped. (odd)

Here you have this:
FACT CHECK: Health overhaul myths taking root - Yahoo! News


A prime example of why I, a regular assed dude, am frustrated with my Country's political discussion. It's childish, and it makes me want to off politics and pop someone in the jugular.

So, thanks alot for the honest discussion on such an important issue in healthcare(important in my life), and yah....Obama's a nazi!! (ARGGGHHHH!)

*grow the fuck up, political "debaters"

 

[WillowTree]

Oh well hell why didn't you tell the people right up front you only wanted to talk to you. jeez so simple. for sure you won't disagree with you.. for it. dayuuum!

Umm, let yourself out the door if you could, kindly.

I've read your literature, you have a distorted reality because you're an overt partisan. Not knocking you for it, but I'm not giving anything you say water based on past readings. Credibility issues and all that.

too bad for you! .

 

[WillowTree]

Let's make sure I have this straight. You claim to be non-partisan, and want an honest discussion, then link to the Soros-funded and highly partisan fact check dot org? All in one post?

Excuse me while I seek medical attention for my splitting sides!



http://eipnetworks.com/clear.mp3

b-u-l-l-s-e-y-e

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Excellent , excellent post GT!

Tell it like it is man!

The truth always finds it's way to the light!

Yeah, we should just believe AP, NBC, SeeBS, and all the media outlets. They have no dog in this fight and are unbiased!

Right?

 

[WillowTree]

KISS look at Massachusetts.

The model for what is proposed. How far in the red is that state??? Hello?

 

[WillowTree]

By the way Factcheck.org or whatever the fuck it's called doesn't tell the WHOLE truth. The bill doesn't say it will cover illegal immigrants, but it doesn't say it wouldn't either. The bill does provide cuts in Medicare,( 500 billion in the next ten years) which will effect senior citizens. Oh but factcheck doesn't mention that huh? How convenient.

It will cover illegals. You see the democwat congresscritters voted down the Heller Amendment. That's the game say you are against illegal immigration out of one side of your mouth and out of the other make it impossible to check.. Dishonest fuckery at it's very best. And no we don't presently cover illegals with full service medical care.. they are only entitled to emergency care.

 

[toomuchtime_]

another factor that prevents discussion if the 'dumbing' of americans.....people wont or dont read or research anything....so they have to go by some trumped up party line...hiding behind partisan shit allows people to "think" they know what they are talking about when they only know what the are 'parroting' this concept applies to both parties and all people regardless of political party... we have become to lazy to govern ourselves...too lazy to read...we must be spoon feed facts by punits.

I don't think the fault lies with the American people but with the leadership of the Democratic Party. When our cheerleader-in-chief announced he wanted House and Senate bills out of committee before the summer recess and a bill signed into law before the 2010 campaign season began because the issue was too urgent to waste time in careful study, honest disclosure of costs or open debate, he set the stage for the circus that has followed. The Democratic push has been based entirely on ideological and political considerations and not at all on careful assessments of costs and benefits and for this reason they deserve all the anger and ridicule they have received. This anger and ridicule is an honest expression of frustration about the way the Democrats have tried to ram this thing through before anyone really knows what it will cost or how it will impact our national or state economies and the Democratic response to this frustration has been almost entirely dishonest.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

KISS look at Massachusetts.

The model for what is proposed. How far in the red is that state??? Hello?

We are only 2 billion in debt right now (we had a surplus instead as little as 3 years ago). .

But at least our sales tax got raised 25%, the registry and car related fees have all gone up, they raised our tolls, they have put a tax on our health insurance payments, if you CHOOSE not to get coverage you get to pay an annual uninsured tax, and they are proposing more fee's to help pay for our "universal" health care.

BTW we also kicked 30,000 LEGAL immigrants off the govt funded plan since we dont have enough money and almost 3% of the commonwealth are still uninsured.

Oh and one more thing, my cost of insurance has gone up from 38/week to 50/week

I prefer to fight from behind the lines

 

[Midnight Marauder]

another factor that prevents discussion if the 'dumbing' of americans.....people wont or dont read or research anything....

Bonez.... Some reading and research for you:

Have you studied the health care problems of native Americans who live on reservations? They have had single-payer, government controlled healthcare since the government set up the reservations. It's third-world medical care right in the middle of a first-world country!

Indians' motto is "don't get sick after June" because that's when the funding runs out, and it's been a problem for two hundred years! Think of other US government run medical programs, such as the horrendous VA, then ask yourself, "why do we want the government taking over ALL healthcare?"

Start the reading on this here:

"Don't get sick after June!" - John Stossel's Take

Then check all this out:

"Don't get sick after June!" - Google Search

Shouldn't they like, FIX this first and prove to the rest of us they can run a health care system, on a small scale? Before we put them solely in the driver's seat of a really BIG bus with everyone on it? And with LOTS of folks thrown UNDER that bus?

 

[wvpeach]

Ah, after having read some of these posts, lets do a little moral fact checking here , shall we?

First of all who lets all these illegals in and who does there presence here benefit?

Corporations is who benefits from illegals coming in to work for chump change which also lowers Americans wages.

So it would be all but impossible for anybody to argue that because companies don't want the boarders closed we allow them to remain open. Because illegals benefit big business. .................... And small business I might add. Many is the contractor willing to hire all Mexicans who will work for 1/2 the price of a American carpenter.

So moral fact check here that apparently some of you need.

Can you blame a poor Mexican for jumping the boarder because they can't find a job in Mexico and coming to America to find a job working for what Americans consider chump change , but are rich wages to them?

Any answers to that question from you right wingers?

Let me give you the logical and moral answer right wingers.

No ! You cannot blame a person for jumping a boarder in order to keep food in their kids mouths and try to better life for their families. ....................

Now , next moral question.

Said illegal is in the country and gets a high fever or breaks a leg on a job site, do we deny them treatment at a emergency room?

Can any of you right wingers give the logical and moral answer to that question?

Logical because it's the US that doesn't bother to close our boarders and lets them in , in the first place to help business profit. Logical because they could be contracting a communicable illness we need to know about. Plaques and serious flu epidemics can still kill millions if left unchecked . And many of these illegals live 12 to a home in cramped less than hygienic conditions . So we wouldn't want them getting cases of say swine flu and then painting your home and passing it on to you.

Moral because many is this nation like to call this a " Christian nation" well got news for you Christians, nor moral people consign people to die in the streets for any reason when we could possibly help them.

The boarder should have been closed 2 decades ago.

Don't bitch at illegals. Bitch at a government that won't close the boarder.
And who you really need to bitch at is corporate America who lobby's to keep that boarder open so they can drive down wages across the board.




The answer would be that we have a moral as well as logical obligation to treat them.

 

[kwc57]

Let's make sure I have this straight. You claim to be non-partisan, and want an honest discussion, then link to us to a Associated Press article? AP, who is sucking Obama's dick since Day One? All in one post?

Excuse me while I seek medical attention for my splitting sides!



http://eipnetworks.com/clear.mp3

What would you prefer, WND?

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Can you blame a poor Mexican for jumping the boarder

If the boarder is female, and good-looking, I wouldn't blame anyone for jumping her!

 

[WillowTree]

Ah, after having read some of these posts, lets do a little moral fact checking here , shall we?

First of all who lets all these illegals in and who does there presence here benefit?

Corporations is who benefits from illegals coming in to work for chump change which also lowers Americans wages.

So it would be all but impossible for anybody to argue that because companies don't want the boarders closed we allow them to remain open. Because illegals benefit big business. .................... And small business I might add. Many is the contractor willing to hire all Mexicans who will work for 1/2 the price of a American carpenter.

So moral fact check here that apparently some of you need.

Can you blame a poor Mexican for jumping the boarder because they can't find a job in Mexico and coming to America to find a job working for what Americans consider chump change , but are rich wages to them?

Any answers to that question from you right wingers?

Let me give you the logical and moral answer right wingers.

No ! You cannot blame a person for jumping a boarder in order to keep food in their kids mouths and try to better life for their families. ....................

Now , next moral question.

Said illegal is in the country and gets a high fever or breaks a leg on a job site, do we deny them treatment at a emergency room?

Can any of you right wingers give the logical and moral answer to that question?

Logical because it's the US that doesn't bother to close our boarders and lets them in , in the first place to help business profit. Logical because they could be contracting a communicable illness we need to know about. Plaques and serious flu epidemics can still kill millions if left unchecked . And many of these illegals live 12 to a home in cramped less than hygienic conditions . So we wouldn't want them getting cases of say swine flu and then painting your home and passing it on to you.

Moral because many is this nation like to call this a " Christian nation" well got news for you Christians, nor moral people consign people to die in the streets for any reason when we could possibly help them.

The boarder should have been closed 2 decades ago.

Don't bitch at illegals. Bitch at a government that won't close the boarder.
And who you really need to bitch at is corporate America who lobby's to keep that boarder open so they can drive down wages across the board.




The answer would be that we have a moral as well as logical obligation to treat them.

Krauthammer predicted this on Sunday.



no why don't you tell us why we American citizens are obligated to work and pay for the health care of 1/2 of Mexico! How moral is that?

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Let's make sure I have this straight. You claim to be non-partisan, and want an honest discussion, then link to us to a Associated Press article? AP, who is sucking Obama's dick since Day One? All in one post?

Excuse me while I seek medical attention for my splitting sides!



http://eipnetworks.com/clear.mp3

What would you prefer, WND?

If I wished to prove my claim to be non-partisan and my stated desire for an honest discussion, I wouldn't link to anything partisan.

Right?

Especially not AP, WND (whatever that is) or any of the MSM.

 

[wvpeach]

KISS look at Massachusetts.

The model for what is proposed. How far in the red is that state??? Hello?

That is an unrealistic comparison willow tree.

First study after study has been done showing that universal health care if implemented throughout the country will actually drive health care costs down.

Secondly if individual states try to go it alone they are at distinct disadvantages . The first thing the insurance companies do is raise rates and say tough luck if you don't like it we will just pull out of your state.

For instance Kentucky tried several years ago to put caps on medical and auto insurance rates. Insurance companies just pulled out of the state. Took their ball and went home and said we won't play unless you let us charge what we want.

States like Massachusetts that try to go it alone are seeing the insurance companies raise rates sky high because they are being told they cannot exclude people for pre existing conditions. With insurance rates that high, hospitals and doctors naturally want their share of the pie so rates go up across the board including for the state run programs.

Common sense says prices cannot be controlled unless all states are in and coverage is universal across the nation.

Naturally the insurance companies don't like that because that means they will have to compete for a share of the pie. It means they won't make multi billions a year , they may just make a few billion.