Ya ever think that the reason our healthcare is so expensive is because of lawsuits?

[Immanuel]

The state of Mississippi has had a Doctor shortage for over a decade the reason being the cost of malpractice insurance. Even students that graduate from their own states medical schools leave for other states. But malpractice is not the only reason GOVERMENT involvement raises the cost like they do everything else they get in. You can google the topic of doctor shortages in this state and read many articles of this.

The thing is, people are forgetting that lately most of the lawsuits these days are not against doctors either, but they are still the ones paying the price for it.

Sorry, I must disagree with this... the insured and patients are the ones who are paying the cost of this not the doctors.

Immie

 

[CrusaderFrank]

We paid for this:

"She said at 3, 'I'm fine.' She said at 4, 'I'm having a little trouble, but I'm doing OK.' Five, she said, 'I'm having problems.' At 5:30, she said, 'I need out."'

"She speaks to you through me and I have to tell you right now -- I didn't plan to talk about this -- right now I feel her. I feel her presence. She's inside me, and she's talking to you."

John Edwards channeling Jennifer Campell in a MedMal case.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The state of Mississippi has had a Doctor shortage for over a decade the reason being the cost of malpractice insurance. Even students that graduate from their own states medical schools leave for other states. But malpractice is not the only reason GOVERMENT involvement raises the cost like they do everything else they get in. You can google the topic of doctor shortages in this state and read many articles of this.

The thing is, people are forgetting that lately most of the lawsuits these days are not against doctors either, but they are still the ones paying the price for it.

Sorry, I must disagree with this... the insured and patients are the ones who are paying the cost of this not the doctors.

Immie

Ask your doctor how many months he works to pay his MedMal Insurance?

 

[Immanuel]

I just can't get behind tort control,it goes against my free market beliefs,it shifts the restriction from one sector to another and restricts my right as a consumer of redress of grievances. How about some type of negative outcomes type insurance I could get before surgery ,sort of like insurance I might get when flying to insure my outcome of the procedure? That would be free markets at work.

There's an idiot at your keyboard.
If you went into an insurance office telling them you were having...say....an abdominal aneurysm repaired, it'd cost you an absolute fortune for a policy for something like that.

Free market at work stealing from you as usual.
Like my 10 grand a year homeowners policy back when I was stupid enough to live in Floridastan.
Free market at work !

I'm not so sure about that... let the actuaries figure out the cost of such a policy. I doubt it would be as high as you think.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

The thing is, people are forgetting that lately most of the lawsuits these days are not against doctors either, but they are still the ones paying the price for it.

Sorry, I must disagree with this... the insured and patients are the ones who are paying the cost of this not the doctors.

Immie

Ask your doctor how many months he works to pay his MedMal Insurance?

Stil in the long run, you and I are paying for it.

Immie

 

[sealybobo]

Sealy,

Do you have a link to back that up?

Also, is that including the cost of Malpractice Insurance? I am fairly certain that malpractice insurance is a large part of the budget for most doctors especially the ones in private practice. The protection against lawsuits (frivolous or otherwise) should be included in that calculation.

Frivolous malpractice suits are only one part of the puzzle of healthcare costs, but a part that should be dealt with rather than swept under the liberal rug in order to promote the need for a bigger government.

Immie

No I don't. Do you have a number that contradicts my numbers?

Ed Schultz asked if Bobbi Gindal knows what the total cost of lawsuits are. Call Bobbi Gindal and see if he knows. Or find it yourself.

And no, this should not be dealt with now. This is just a distraction from solving the real problems and I believe you know it.

They'll throw every right wing talking point at us before they agree to discuss the real issues. Don't get distracted. This is not even an issue right now.

Yes, it includes malpractice insurance.

No, I don't have anything to contradict your numbers. Nor am I saying you are wrong. Just wondering where you got your info. Nor am I positive I am correct. Just asking.

Why should I trust Ed Schultz?

You and I disagree on whether or not this should be dealt with now.

I am not so sure based on your statement about not having a link that you know for sure that it includes malpractice insurance. Also, basing something on the fact that it is .5% of total healthcare costs nationwide is a fallacious argument. You don't base the cost of something by comparing it to total industry costs. The cost of something is based upon its value. Simply because the healthcare industry may be overcharging their costs does not justify the cost of frivolous lawsuits.

And once again, give me a good reason to trust Ed Schultz?

Immie

You would have to listen to Ed Schultz and decide for yourself if he's honest or a bullshitter like Rush.

Anyways, the Dems are in charge. You guys should have dealt with tort reform when you were in charge. You didn't because this is just a distraction from the real problems. The right is throwing out bullshit and seeing what sticks. Meanwhile, we'll waste a week discussing tort reform, WHICH IS NOT THE PROBLEM WITH HEALTHCARE! Its the for profit insurance companies!!! We know exactly why the costs have skyrocketed and tort reform is not the main issue right now. Yes you want to discuss it because you are against healthcare reform.

Its like the drill baby drill argument. That would have lowered gas prices 2 cents a gallon. Hardly the main problem. But you guys changed the focus on that to whether or not we should be drilling offshore. What a joke. Yea, give the people gouging us even more of our natural resources.

Tort reform doesn't solve pre existing conditions, denying people coverage and it isn't why healthcare costs went up 191% from 2001 to now.

Show us that lawsuits are why healthcare costs went up 191% since 2001. You can't, because it just isn't true.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

No I don't. Do you have a number that contradicts my numbers?

Ed Schultz asked if Bobbi Gindal knows what the total cost of lawsuits are. Call Bobbi Gindal and see if he knows. Or find it yourself.

And no, this should not be dealt with now. This is just a distraction from solving the real problems and I believe you know it.

They'll throw every right wing talking point at us before they agree to discuss the real issues. Don't get distracted. This is not even an issue right now.

Yes, it includes malpractice insurance.

No, I don't have anything to contradict your numbers. Nor am I saying you are wrong. Just wondering where you got your info. Nor am I positive I am correct. Just asking.

Why should I trust Ed Schultz?

You and I disagree on whether or not this should be dealt with now.

I am not so sure based on your statement about not having a link that you know for sure that it includes malpractice insurance. Also, basing something on the fact that it is .5% of total healthcare costs nationwide is a fallacious argument. You don't base the cost of something by comparing it to total industry costs. The cost of something is based upon its value. Simply because the healthcare industry may be overcharging their costs does not justify the cost of frivolous lawsuits.

And once again, give me a good reason to trust Ed Schultz?

Immie

You would have to listen to Ed Schultz and decide for yourself if he's honest or a bullshitter like Rush.

Anyways, the Dems are in charge. You guys should have dealt with tort reform when you were in charge. You didn't because this is just a distraction from the real problems. The right is throwing out bullshit and seeing what sticks. Meanwhile, we'll waste a week discussing tort reform, WHICH IS NOT THE PROBLEM WITH HEALTHCARE! Its the for profit insurance companies!!! We know exactly why the costs have skyrocketed and tort reform is not the main issue right now. Yes you want to discuss it because you are against healthcare reform.

Its like the drill baby drill argument. That would have lowered gas prices 2 cents a gallon. Hardly the main problem. But you guys changed the focus on that to whether or not we should be drilling offshore. What a joke. Yea, give the people gouging us even more of our natural resources.

Tort reform doesn't solve pre existing conditions, denying people coverage and it isn't why healthcare costs went up 191% from 2001 to now.

Show us that lawsuits are why healthcare costs went up 191% since 2001. You can't, because it just isn't true.

Are there any Dems who work in the private sector? I mean is there even one?

Capitalism COMPETES AWAY EXTRAORDINARY RETURNS!

If some insurance company is making 25% on their insurance premiums (DO YOU FUCKING MORONS EVEN KNOW THE MOST BASIC CONCEPTS OF HOW INSURANCE WORKS????) then their competitor will come in and write the policy and a 20% profit, then 15% etc.

Most insurance is underwritten to break even on the premium and the companies make their money on the float.

Do you know what float is?

How the fuck can anyone have a serious discussion with Libruls?

 

[xotoxi]

I personally don't want a bureaucrat or some board deciding how much my eyesight is worth due to a neurologist fucking up when extracting a tumor anymore than I want a bureaucrat involved in my healthcare decisions.

Then the cost of healthcare will remain high.

So you think healthcare is high due to this,seriously. What about HMO's,regulations,mandates,not any competition,third party payors etc.?

No. But I think it is part of it.

 

[noose4]

We're the only county in the world that encourages malpractice lawyers to launch predatory lawsuits against our healthcare system.

You ever stop and think that maybe one way to lower Healthcare costs is to institute a "Loser Pays" System, this way a doctor does not have six months of his practice go to pay his malpractice insurance?

if i go to a doctor for a hernia operation and leave the hospital missing a leg i am going to sue the hell out of the doctor.

 

[johnrocks]

I just can't get behind tort control,it goes against my free market beliefs,it shifts the restriction from one sector to another and restricts my right as a consumer of redress of grievances. How about some type of negative outcomes type insurance I could get before surgery ,sort of like insurance I might get when flying to insure my outcome of the procedure? That would be free markets at work.

There's an idiot at your keyboard.
If you went into an insurance office telling them you were having...say....an abdominal aneurysm repaired, it'd cost you an absolute fortune for a policy for something like that.

Free market at work stealing from you as usual.
Like my 10 grand a year homeowners policy back when I was stupid enough to live in Floridastan.
Free market at work !

I'm in the insurance business, that's what you get for ass/u/me ing How expensive is insurance that you can buy prior to boarding an airplane ,same principle and this negatives outcome type insurance would not be insuring the disease like the aneurysm but the chance for neglect and since people are saying that happens in like 1% of cases,hell, I'll be more than happy to invest in a company that sells something with a 99% chance of no losses.

 

[MaggieMae]

We're the only county in the world that encourages malpractice lawyers to launch predatory lawsuits against our healthcare system.

You ever stop and think that maybe one way to lower Healthcare costs is to institute a "Loser Pays" System, this way a doctor does not have six months of his practice go to pay his malpractice insurance?

Many states have caps on medical malpractice claims.

Many states use arbitration before it ever goes to court.

Many doctors OVER-insure themselves in any event, but if they screw up, they're toast anyway.

Malpractice insurance rates vary dramatically by location.

Educate yourself.

 

[MaggieMae]

yea the ablitity to not sue the military hospitals has resulted in great care...ask the airman who just had both legs amputeed due to the surgeons mistake....he can not sue...but hey its was only his legs

Where did you get that idea? Of course a patient can sue. The statute of limitations is two years, instead of the usual three, and suit can even be brought by the parents of a patient.

 

[MaggieMae]

We're the only county in the world that encourages malpractice lawyers to launch predatory lawsuits against our healthcare system.

You ever stop and think that maybe one way to lower Healthcare costs is to institute a "Loser Pays" System, this way a doctor does not have six months of his practice go to pay his malpractice insurance?

So funny how you guys bring up an argument, we debunk it, you move on to another lie, we debunk that, and then eventually you come back to the same lies.

Lawsuits add up to 1/2 of 1% of the total costs of healthcare. Ed Schultz squashed this last night and about a week ago. And consider that most of the lawsuits are legitimate. So what percent are frivilous? Does that add up to $1 billion? Not even worth discussing now. Lets get a great public option in place first, get the costs lowered, and then down the road we can deal with tort reform.

PS. You are only hurting yourself with this. Rich people and corporations will always have access to the best laywers. Secretly, they love lawyers. What they are pushing for with this is they want their doctors and corporations to be able to kill or injure you and pay very little when it happens. Is that wise? How much is your life worth?

Sealy,

Do you have a link to back that up?

Also, is that including the cost of Malpractice Insurance? I am fairly certain that malpractice insurance is a large part of the budget for most doctors especially the ones in private practice. The protection against lawsuits (frivolous or otherwise) should be included in that calculation.

Frivolous malpractice suits are only one part of the puzzle of healthcare costs, but a part that should be dealt with rather than swept under the liberal rug in order to promote the need for a bigger government.

Immie

A 2006 GAO report found that most medical malpractice lawsuits are withdrawn before they get to court, and 80% of the cses with a jury verdict result in no payment for those injured or their families. That would indicate that the majority are indeed frivolous.

The report also indicated that the real reason for health care inflation is costly new technology. Even though doctors claim that lawsuits cause them to do extra tests and practice defensive medicine, tort reform by forcing lower premiums on malpractice insurance wouldn't result in fewer bad doctors or good ones using better medical discipline. Doctors are paid to do more.

 

[sealybobo]

No, I don't have anything to contradict your numbers. Nor am I saying you are wrong. Just wondering where you got your info. Nor am I positive I am correct. Just asking.

Why should I trust Ed Schultz?

You and I disagree on whether or not this should be dealt with now.

I am not so sure based on your statement about not having a link that you know for sure that it includes malpractice insurance. Also, basing something on the fact that it is .5% of total healthcare costs nationwide is a fallacious argument. You don't base the cost of something by comparing it to total industry costs. The cost of something is based upon its value. Simply because the healthcare industry may be overcharging their costs does not justify the cost of frivolous lawsuits.

And once again, give me a good reason to trust Ed Schultz?

Immie

You would have to listen to Ed Schultz and decide for yourself if he's honest or a bullshitter like Rush.

Anyways, the Dems are in charge. You guys should have dealt with tort reform when you were in charge. You didn't because this is just a distraction from the real problems. The right is throwing out bullshit and seeing what sticks. Meanwhile, we'll waste a week discussing tort reform, WHICH IS NOT THE PROBLEM WITH HEALTHCARE! Its the for profit insurance companies!!! We know exactly why the costs have skyrocketed and tort reform is not the main issue right now. Yes you want to discuss it because you are against healthcare reform.

Its like the drill baby drill argument. That would have lowered gas prices 2 cents a gallon. Hardly the main problem. But you guys changed the focus on that to whether or not we should be drilling offshore. What a joke. Yea, give the people gouging us even more of our natural resources.

Tort reform doesn't solve pre existing conditions, denying people coverage and it isn't why healthcare costs went up 191% from 2001 to now.

Show us that lawsuits are why healthcare costs went up 191% since 2001. You can't, because it just isn't true.

Are there any Dems who work in the private sector? I mean is there even one?

Capitalism COMPETES AWAY EXTRAORDINARY RETURNS!

If some insurance company is making 25% on their insurance premiums (DO YOU FUCKING MORONS EVEN KNOW THE MOST BASIC CONCEPTS OF HOW INSURANCE WORKS????) then their competitor will come in and write the policy and a 20% profit, then 15% etc.

Most insurance is underwritten to break even on the premium and the companies make their money on the float.

Do you know what float is?

How the fuck can anyone have a serious discussion with Libruls?

Nothing you said is relavent.

Insurance companies deny sick people coverage so they can max out their profits. Do you know that? How the fuck can anyone have an honest discussion with Cuntservasstools?

 

[MaggieMae]

I just can't get behind tort control,it goes against my free market beliefs,it shifts the restriction from one sector to another and restricts my right as a consumer of redress of grievances. How about some type of negative outcomes type insurance I could get before surgery ,sort of like insurance I might get when flying to insure my outcome of the procedure? That would be free markets at work.

I think that's a GREAT idea. In fact, I kinda like the whole idea of vending machine insurance for lots of procedures. [Got to have an MRI, blood workup, etc., today recommended by my doctor. Since that little trip will probably cost around $500 anyway, I think I'll stop by WalMart first to buy a $20 policy just in case the tests show I need hospitalization for even more tests. That way, that little short-term policy will cover additional testing and if I don't need any, I'll be even happier!!]

I'm serious, John.

 

[Immanuel]

You would have to listen to Ed Schultz and decide for yourself if he's honest or a bullshitter like Rush.

Anyways, the Dems are in charge. You guys should have dealt with tort reform when you were in charge. You didn't because this is just a distraction from the real problems. The right is throwing out bullshit and seeing what sticks. Meanwhile, we'll waste a week discussing tort reform, WHICH IS NOT THE PROBLEM WITH HEALTHCARE! Its the for profit insurance companies!!! We know exactly why the costs have skyrocketed and tort reform is not the main issue right now. Yes you want to discuss it because you are against healthcare reform.

Its like the drill baby drill argument. That would have lowered gas prices 2 cents a gallon. Hardly the main problem. But you guys changed the focus on that to whether or not we should be drilling offshore. What a joke. Yea, give the people gouging us even more of our natural resources.

Tort reform doesn't solve pre existing conditions, denying people coverage and it isn't why healthcare costs went up 191% from 2001 to now.

Show us that lawsuits are why healthcare costs went up 191% since 2001. You can't, because it just isn't true.

You guys?

Sorry, but I am as much against the Republicans in office as I am against the Democrats. As far as I am concerned both sides are equally corrupt.

I am not opposed to healthcare reform. I am, however, opposed to Nationalized healthcare if it means the bureaucrats of Washington DC are going to control it. Maybe Canada did a better job at it than Washington can, but the last people in the world that I want deciding what procedures I can have are the people in Washington.

Tort reform would cut down on a hell of a lot of the problem when you figure that much of the costs of healthcare is to prevent potential suits.

Immie

 

[johnrocks]

I just can't get behind tort control,it goes against my free market beliefs,it shifts the restriction from one sector to another and restricts my right as a consumer of redress of grievances. How about some type of negative outcomes type insurance I could get before surgery ,sort of like insurance I might get when flying to insure my outcome of the procedure? That would be free markets at work.

I think that's a GREAT idea. In fact, I kinda like the whole idea of vending machine insurance for lots of procedures. [Got to have an MRI, blood workup, etc., today recommended by my doctor. Since that little trip will probably cost around $500 anyway, I think I'll stop by WalMart first to buy a $20 policy just in case the tests show I need hospitalization for even more tests. That way, that little short-term policy will cover additional testing and if I don't need any, I'll be even happier!!]

I'm serious, John.

Thanks and I agree. I think if we expanded our thoughts beyond what Rush OR Schultz fed us,there is truly a free market solution for dang near anything.

 

[MaggieMae]

Lawsuits are low due to this, if you take all lawsuits filed;not even won; and put it against the money that healthcare costs,it is less than 3%, I did the figures just a month or so ago but Ed Schultz gets facts wrong too.

I heard 1/2 of 1%, he said 1% yesterday and you say 3%. I'm sure we can confirm what the number actually is.

I think it varies so much because it varies from state to state. This report might help, which indicates that malpractices cases are the lowest in years in any event. You can click on the link for the PDF report, dated just two days ago, at the bottom of this blurb.

Major Study of Malpractice Insurance Finds No Basis to Limit Liability of Unsafe Health Care Providers

 

[Immanuel]

A 2006 GAO report found that most medical malpractice lawsuits are withdrawn before they get to court, and 80% of the cses with a jury verdict result in no payment for those injured or their families. That would indicate that the majority are indeed frivolous.

The report also indicated that the real reason for health care inflation is costly new technology. Even though doctors claim that lawsuits cause them to do extra tests and practice defensive medicine, tort reform by forcing lower premiums on malpractice insurance wouldn't result in fewer bad doctors or good ones using better medical discipline. Doctors are paid to do more.

Do you by any chance have a link to that?

Question: withdrawn or settled? A settled suit is still paid by the insurance company which simply pass those costs on to the consumer.

I realize that many of the cases that go to jury end up in no payment. One reason so many cases settle out of court is that "victims" know this and plan on settling early.

Unnecessary procedures are a result of frivolous lawsuits and should be factored into the reason for the increase in costs.

I do not believe that the right to sue should be interfered with. However, I think the idea that loser pays is something that should be looked at as that might help to cut down on the snowballing costs of healthcare.

Immie

 

[xotoxi]

I just can't get behind tort control,it goes against my free market beliefs,it shifts the restriction from one sector to another and restricts my right as a consumer of redress of grievances. How about some type of negative outcomes type insurance I could get before surgery ,sort of like insurance I might get when flying to insure my outcome of the procedure? That would be free markets at work.

But then you would have yet another insurance company that you would have to pay for and that could deny you coverage.

After all, having surgery is far more risky than flying.