Ya ever think that the reason our healthcare is so expensive is because of lawsuits?

[CrusaderFrank]

Because he still makes a million dollars?

If Frank's father is paying that much, he either needs brain surgery or his patient accounts are dwindling.

Sorry to change the subject but do you know what kills a lot of small business owners? Rent. If you rent in a strip mall and its a good location, you pay a lot of money.

My buddy owns a UPS Store and he said he spends 3 weeks of money paying bills and the last week of every month is his.

Notice landlords haven't lowered rent during the recession to help out small business owners who are struggling.

Not a small business owner, are you?

Well, from the front lines, yes, we are giving and getting rent concessions both in residential and commercial spaces.

 

[MaggieMae]

Because he still makes a million dollars?

If Frank's father is paying that much, he either needs brain surgery or his patient accounts are dwindling.

First of all the issue was my father's doctor, not my father. Don't mention him again

Six months for MedMal premiums, 3-4 months for taxes and 1.5 month to pay employees and rent. Yeah, the guy makes $1MM in 2 weeks.

Strike Two. Sorry, Frank. But a malpractice premium worth six months of work is absurd. You didn't mention all the other direct costs before.

 

[chanel]

There are ob/gyns in certain states that will no longer deliver babies. Two inbred rednecks produce a retarded child and they sue the doctor. Fellow inbred retards on the jury award eleventy gazillion dollars. Tort reform should have caps and include protection from frivolous suits.

According to Morris one of the primary cost cutters they are looking at is reducing the number of C-sections. Many doctora do this routinely "just in case" Without tort reform, there will be no incentive to lower this number.

 

[MaggieMae]

We were doing just find until you jumped into the pool.

So you don't know anything at all about the insurance business, you think float is what the executive do in a pool.

I know what a float is. My point is that everyone else on both sides of this issue were having a civil conversation until Mr. Grumpy (you) jumped back in. Take a deep breath and relax for a month--ain't nuthin' gonna happen till fall, so you can put on a clean pair of briefs.

 

[Immanuel]

It could probably be googled. All I was working from was an AARP report that cited the GAO report.

I am sure it can, but then you get so many hits that I never know if I am reading the same report you read. That is why I think people should provide links or at least sources.

Thank you at least for the source to narrow that down.

Immie

 

[CrusaderFrank]

If Frank's father is paying that much, he either needs brain surgery or his patient accounts are dwindling.

First of all the issue was my father's doctor, not my father. Don't mention him again

Six months for MedMal premiums, 3-4 months for taxes and 1.5 month to pay employees and rent. Yeah, the guy makes $1MM in 2 weeks.

Strike Two. Sorry, Frank. But a malpractice premium worth six months of work is absurd. You didn't mention all the other direct costs before.

OK, I'll tell Dr. G you said it was absurd.

He grosses $400,000 and his MedMal costs him $200,000 because his practice is geriatrics and even though he does the best he can, from time to time his patients die. And oddly enough, there are families who look to the death of a patient as a chance to cash in irrespective of the quality of care actually delivered.

The Doctor told me about a time when he was late with the payment by a single day and he was not allowed to practice medicine that day because the insurance company sent faxes to his hospital telling them he was not covered.

I didnt mention the direct cost because I thought it was screamingly obvious.

 

[sealybobo]

If Frank's father is paying that much, he either needs brain surgery or his patient accounts are dwindling.

Sorry to change the subject but do you know what kills a lot of small business owners? Rent. If you rent in a strip mall and its a good location, you pay a lot of money.

My buddy owns a UPS Store and he said he spends 3 weeks of money paying bills and the last week of every month is his.

Notice landlords haven't lowered rent during the recession to help out small business owners who are struggling.

Not a small business owner, are you?

Well, from the front lines, yes, we are giving and getting rent concessions both in residential and commercial spaces.

I think that is GREAT!

The economy tanked and you guys are still spending a fortune on rent? I'm very glad to hear that.

Is relief coming from the owners of the buildings or from government.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Sorry to change the subject but do you know what kills a lot of small business owners? Rent. If you rent in a strip mall and its a good location, you pay a lot of money.

My buddy owns a UPS Store and he said he spends 3 weeks of money paying bills and the last week of every month is his.

Notice landlords haven't lowered rent during the recession to help out small business owners who are struggling.

Not a small business owner, are you?

Well, from the front lines, yes, we are giving and getting rent concessions both in residential and commercial spaces.

I think that is GREAT!

The economy tanked and you guys are still spending a fortune on rent? I'm very glad to hear that.

Is relief coming from the owners of the buildings or from government.

It's called the "Free Market"

Can you say "Free Market"?

See, smarter landlords know that you never make up a vacant month, so it's better to work out a deal with a tenant rather than lose them and have to try to refill the space.

 

[sealybobo]

If Frank's father is paying that much, he either needs brain surgery or his patient accounts are dwindling.

First of all the issue was my father's doctor, not my father. Don't mention him again

Six months for MedMal premiums, 3-4 months for taxes and 1.5 month to pay employees and rent. Yeah, the guy makes $1MM in 2 weeks.

Strike Two. Sorry, Frank. But a malpractice premium worth six months of work is absurd. You didn't mention all the other direct costs before.

Maggie, I wouldn't give this guy another second of your time.

I just found this: Health-care costs are exploding out of control. Virtually everyone has noticed increases in premiums, co-pays, deductibles, etc. The number of uninsured Americans continues to grow. Much of the health care cost problems can be contributed to medical malpractice lawsuits. Astronomical verdicts have led to massive increases in the cost to doctors of medical malpractice insurance. Doctors must pay up to $200,000 per year in insurance, depending on their specialty. Doctors are forced to pass these costs to patients, which explains in large part the cost increases.

This is almost verbatum what these right wingers are saying. I think I found the website that they use to find their mis information.

BalancedPolitics.org - Malpractice Lawsuit Caps (Pros & Cons, Arguments For and Against)

So he doesn't know anyone who makes $400K and pays $200K. He read this and is making shit up as he goes along.

On this "balanced" website, it lists pro's and cons of a strong public option and they could only come up with 6 pros but 15 con's.

BalancedPolitics.org - Universal Health Care (Pros & Cons, Arguments For and Against)

 

[sealybobo]

Not a small business owner, are you?

Well, from the front lines, yes, we are giving and getting rent concessions both in residential and commercial spaces.

I think that is GREAT!

The economy tanked and you guys are still spending a fortune on rent? I'm very glad to hear that.

Is relief coming from the owners of the buildings or from government.

It's called the "Free Market"

Can you say "Free Market"?

See, smarter landlords know that you never make up a vacant month, so it's better to work out a deal with a tenant rather than lose them and have to try to refill the space.

I'm not listening to you anymore. I thnk you a liar.

Looks like you got your fake ass story from this site:

BalancedPolitics.org - Malpractice Lawsuit Caps (Pros & Cons, Arguments For and Against)

 

[johnrocks]

Not a small business owner, are you?

Well, from the front lines, yes, we are giving and getting rent concessions both in residential and commercial spaces.

I think that is GREAT!

The economy tanked and you guys are still spending a fortune on rent? I'm very glad to hear that.

Is relief coming from the owners of the buildings or from government.

It's called the "Free Market"

Can you say "Free Market"?

See, smarter landlords know that you never make up a vacant month, so it's better to work out a deal with a tenant rather than lose them and have to try to refill the space.

How does tort controls jive with free markets though Frank? I know you touted "loser pay" in your op so if that is all you support then I guess that's ok. Don't NYC have rent controls?(that's another issue I detest..rent controls)

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I think that is GREAT!

The economy tanked and you guys are still spending a fortune on rent? I'm very glad to hear that.

Is relief coming from the owners of the buildings or from government.

It's called the "Free Market"

Can you say "Free Market"?

See, smarter landlords know that you never make up a vacant month, so it's better to work out a deal with a tenant rather than lose them and have to try to refill the space.

How does tort controls jive with free markets though Frank? I know you touted "loser pay" in your op so if that is all you support then I guess that's ok. Don't NYC have rent controls?(that's another issue I detest..rent controls)

NY has rent control and rent stabilization on residential properties and tenants are now kicking themselves that they're forced into annual increases instead of reductions.

Also, Loser Pays seems to be the best way to prevent the infinite number of free kicks MedMal lawyers currently have.

 

[jillian]

No but is that repetition due to lawsuit prevention or Doctor's milking third party payors from group health to Medicare because the consumer is out of the loop and isn't concerned with the costs because "it's freeeee"?

that's absurd...

tell me, when there are no limits to the damage a doctor can do, why should there be limits on what he has to pay for screwing up?

this is one of those goebbels lies told over and over again by the insurance industry and AMA and their pawns.

Reality: It costs an attorney about $50,000 to pursue a medical malpractice suit. They don't get paid unless they win. In most places, before they even get to a judge or jury, they have to get past a panel that decides the case has enough merit to go forward.

 

[elvis]

No but is that repetition due to lawsuit prevention or Doctor's milking third party payors from group health to Medicare because the consumer is out of the loop and isn't concerned with the costs because "it's freeeee"?

that's absurd...

tell me, when there are no limits to the damage a doctor can do, why should there be limits on what he has to pay for screwing up?

this is one of those goebbels lies told over and over again by the insurance industry and AMA and their pawns.

Reality: It costs an attorney about $50,000 to pursue a medical malpractice suit. They don't get paid unless they win. In most places, before they even get to a judge or jury, they have to get past a panel that decides the case has enough merit to go forward.

Here's the other side.

People scream and cry because a doctor charges $200 for an ER visit, etc. but have no problem suing him for 2 million if he makes a mistake?

 

[johnrocks]

No but is that repetition due to lawsuit prevention or Doctor's milking third party payors from group health to Medicare because the consumer is out of the loop and isn't concerned with the costs because "it's freeeee"?

that's absurd...

tell me, when there are no limits to the damage a doctor can do, why should there be limits on what he has to pay for screwing up?

this is one of those goebbels lies told over and over again by the insurance industry and AMA and their pawns.

Reality: It costs an attorney about $50,000 to pursue a medical malpractice suit. They don't get paid unless they win. In most places, before they even get to a judge or jury, they have to get past a panel that decides the case has enough merit to go forward.

I "think" we may be on the same side here,lol, I oppose tort control, I think it flies in the face of free markets,imho,anyway.

 

[MaggieMae]

It could probably be googled. All I was working from was an AARP report that cited the GAO report.

I am sure it can, but then you get so many hits that I never know if I am reading the same report you read. That is why I think people should provide links or at least sources.

Thank you at least for the source to narrow that down.

Immie

I didn't read the actual GAO report either. I'll try to find AARP's source information (but later). In a quick search, I did find this information (from 2006), which gives the amount of externals for every $1.00 in premium costs, including malpractice insurance. Very interesting.

Health Insurance Premium Growth Slows Despite Increased Utilization, Higher Costs

 

[Immanuel]

It could probably be googled. All I was working from was an AARP report that cited the GAO report.

I am sure it can, but then you get so many hits that I never know if I am reading the same report you read. That is why I think people should provide links or at least sources.

Thank you at least for the source to narrow that down.

Immie

I didn't read the actual GAO report either. I'll try to find AARP's source information (but later). In a quick search, I did find this information (from 2006), which gives the amount of externals for every $1.00 in premium costs, including malpractice insurance. Very interesting.

Health Insurance Premium Growth Slows Despite Increased Utilization, Higher Costs

Thanks MaggieMae, it helps to know we are reading the same article.

I found this interesting:

Higher utilization of services accounted for 43% of the increase, fueled by factors such as increased consumer demand, new and more intensive medical treatments and defensive medicine, as well as aging and unhealthy lifestyles. Price increases in excess of inflation accounted for 30% of the increase and were impacted by movement among purchasers to broader-access health plans, provider consolidation, increased costs of labor and higher priced technologies.

The report found that 86 cents out of every premium dollar go directly towards paying for medical services. Embedded within the 86 cents are the costs of medical liability and defensive medicine, which are estimated to be ten cents of the premium dollar. The report also breaks down the extent to which each major utilization service is being affected by medical liability and defensive medicine.

Defensive medicine? I would define that (maybe incorrectly) as doctors ordering unnecessary procedures to protect their asses when the patient's loved ones come back at them with $$ in their eyes.

Immie

 

[MaggieMae]

I am sure it can, but then you get so many hits that I never know if I am reading the same report you read. That is why I think people should provide links or at least sources.

Thank you at least for the source to narrow that down.

Immie

I didn't read the actual GAO report either. I'll try to find AARP's source information (but later). In a quick search, I did find this information (from 2006), which gives the amount of externals for every $1.00 in premium costs, including malpractice insurance. Very interesting.

Health Insurance Premium Growth Slows Despite Increased Utilization, Higher Costs

Thanks MaggieMae, it helps to know we are reading the same article.

I found this interesting:

Higher utilization of services accounted for 43% of the increase, fueled by factors such as increased consumer demand, new and more intensive medical treatments and defensive medicine, as well as aging and unhealthy lifestyles. Price increases in excess of inflation accounted for 30% of the increase and were impacted by movement among purchasers to broader-access health plans, provider consolidation, increased costs of labor and higher priced technologies.

The report found that 86 cents out of every premium dollar go directly towards paying for medical services. Embedded within the 86 cents are the costs of medical liability and defensive medicine, which are estimated to be ten cents of the premium dollar. The report also breaks down the extent to which each major utilization service is being affected by medical liability and defensive medicine.

Defensive medicine? I would define that (maybe incorrectly) as doctors ordering unnecessary procedures to protect their asses when the patient's loved ones come back at them with $$ in their eyes.

Immie

I would think you are correct. But I also believe that a great many malpractice cases are frivolous and thrown out. Actually, I think there should be a discussion about tort reform in general, not just as it applies to the medical profession. I'm sickened by the number of TV ads by lawyer-leaches. What once was a proud profession has become another one propelled by pure greed. Product liability is another one where lawyers will sue just because someone says their KFC tasted funny last night.

 

[geauxtohell]

I think malpractice litigation is a fraction of the problem, but I don't think it's the majority. I think it's an easy scapegoat for people to bemoan while overlooking other issues.

I don't know how we could have "tort reform" without removing the regulations that the civil litigation process provides.

Does anyone have any good answers for that?

 

[Dr.House]

Gee, I can't wait for O-CARE....